Political Revelation

[curiositykilledthecat]

so your long thinking lead to ignorance of economic regulation, hatred of non-white and LGBT people, and fear of social progress?

Drinking the left wing kool-aid I take it.

I'm a libertarian since I'm tired of the left being a bunch of self righteous, intolerant hypocrites and the right being clueless.

I want the government to stay out of my life and neither the right nor thew left can respect the constitution, the left being far more corrupted in their view of our freedom as their personal play thing. also to my gay friends, the democrats have run this country since 2006, nothing has happened for you, please stop being used. The same goes for the 'poor minority' in the inner city who keeps electing the savior democrat and yet they get poorer and poorer.

[Kerry X]

"For the love of money is a root of all evil: and some whose hearts were fixed on it have been turned away from the faith, and been wounded with unnumbered sorrows," 1 Timothy 6:10.

Atheist quoting the Bible garners angry Christian response.

I don't care about the money or tax issues. I really don't. Everyone deserves the chance to live a happy life, and that's just simple good-nature toward humanity. You don't need party lines to tell you that no one deserves to die because they can't afford healthcare, or can't afford food or clothing for their children. Don't tell me it's impractical - it's necessary. People who don't want to help the poor or don't try to help the poor have clearly never been poor.

[redneck diaper boy]

She said nothing about sexual preferences.

As for hatred, what people do in the privacy of their home is their business. As for anyone receiving special treatment I say Hell NO. I am against any form of discrimination including government sanctioned white male discrimination.

If you want to talk fear, yes I am afraid. Marxism is not progressive. Marxism is opressive.

As for non white people, I have been on the receiving end of "affirmative action" (white male discrimination). I lost a promotion because of an affirmative action quota.

If you really want to see acts of racism look no further than the Obama administration. According to the Obama administration it is OK for Black thugs to intimidate white voters in Philadelphia. Lets look at the Obama encouraged Service Employee International Union beating a Black Tea Party Member.

I challange anyone to fine acts of racism sanctioned by the Tea Party!

so your long thinking lead to ignorance of economic regulation, hatred of non-white and LGBT people, and fear of social progress?

[DL88]

Now I know what you all are thinking, but I intend to stay out of as many political threads on here as possible. I will say Ashes chill out, many of your accusations such as the "hail beck" are way off base.

I will add into this to the discussion:

Otherwise on a side note, calling Fox News 'Faux' News is simply improper grammar, saying 'faux' is pronounced as if saying "foe" and frankly is a weak attempt at a petty and unfounded attack.

[dprtodd]

Drinking the left wing kool-aid I take it.

I'm a libertarian since I'm tired of the left being a bunch of self righteous, intolerant hypocrites and the right being clueless.

I want the government to stay out of my life and neither the right nor thew left can respect the constitution, the left being far more corrupted in their view of our freedom as their personal play thing. also to my gay friends, the democrats have run this country since 2006, nothing has happened for you, please stop being used. The same goes for the 'poor minority' in the inner city who keeps electing the savior democrat and yet they get poorer and poorer.

I too am a libertarian, and a staunch one at that, I believe that freedom is the the best answer to most any political issue and that we should, like the framers, measure freedom in terms of being free from governance.

The left in this country has been largely co-opted by the progressivism of the early twentieth century that was itself a response to the fall of the whig's and the Republican party's rise at the end of the 19th century. Lincoln's big centralized federal government was the first tenuous steps toward socialism. The sudden and near complete erosion of the 'sovereign state' and the implicit demise of individual liberty that followed were predicates that laid the foundation for later actions such as passage of the 16th amendment. It has always struck me as ironic that Lincoln is known as the great liberator, when he did more to subjugate the American people than any other president! (Realistically the institution of slavery was on its last leg - Lincoln used the issue as a moral wedge to incite support for the civil war which was becoming increasingly unpopular in the north. Slavery wouldn't have lasted another decade on its own and had it been allowed to die peaceably like it did in other countries then the cycle of oppression, the Jim Crow laws, retaliatory violence and lynchings, etc might have been mostly mitigated - Admittedly that is a different discussion and one I'm not certain lends its self well to a message board where temperaments are high and maturity levels are low)

Back to the matter at hand - Conservatism in this country seems mostly to be in name only, with some window dressing issues that are not substantive being used to differentiate themselves from their competition. In effect they ask do you want to pay 34% in taxes instead of 36% - when they should be demanding we dismantle the IRS. They never challenge the validity of the great boondoggles of the last 100 years - no one wants to disassemble the new deal, end the seizure and redistribution of wealth, stop using the police power of the state to provide privilege to some at the expense of another. Regan, even leaving out military spending, drastically expanded the footprint of federal government during his presidency - and to hear the right talk Regan was the second coming. Again we'll leave out the expanses in defense, George W. Bush's administration expanded Medicare and the department of education - in all honesty the only thing the Dems hate about No Child left behind is that it wasn't their bill! We have not had one administration in the 20th century that in aggregate reduced the size of government - even after adjusting for population growth and inflation. The right is every bit as guilty of big government practices as the left is, only at least the lefties are honest about it.

[freswith]

This conversation has left the realm of the serious..so..

Check into the home already, baby boomer, you've ruined the world enough.

Will you be there to change my diaper?

Ruin the world? Surely the worst thing we did was to breed a generation of spoilt, undisciplined, arrogant children.

[Guest NaughtyAshes]

Will you be there to change my diaper?

Of course, like any good liberal, i'll change your diaper!

[curiositykilledthecat]

I love the facts vs. angry retard rant ratio in this thread. Somebody hasn't proven their point and just looks like an idiot.

[Guest NaughtyAshes]

I love the facts vs. angry retard rant ratio in this thread. Somebody hasn't proven their point and just looks like an idiot.

And what facts have you provided exactly? Beyond some silly point about Gays and the Democrats. Gay's are not a politically relevant group. You are right, they are not valued by the Democrats, but they are so overwhelmed numbers wise liberal estimates put LGBT people at 10% of the population. Conservative estimtes put evangelical christians at 25% of population, that eliminates any success swaying oppinion in the Republican party as Evangelicals hold socially opposite views.

Now if you think, "well they should support 3rd parties," sure in an ideal world, they should. We don't live in such a world. The fact is the major parties have about 140 million combined members, combined with astronomical budgets.

[Guest NaughtyAshes]

I challange anyone to fine acts of racism sanctioned by the Tea Party!

http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/isnt-sedition-gop-congressional-cand

violence and racism sanctioned by official tea bagger candidates. Let alone, advocating the destruction of religious freedom by suggesting that Christianity is our state religion.

[BoTox]

Regarding the federalist debate. before entering a discussion on it, i'd first like to know why you think states are better governing bodies then a federal government? Because it says so in the constitution is not a good reason, I want to know why you think it should be in the constitution.

You just demonstrated that you have no awareness of history and have never even browsed the constitution. The US Constitution plainly and clearly states in the 10th amendment: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

The federal government was to be a limited and defined government, not unlimited and undefined. This why they say, "It takes an act of congress," because changing the constitution is supposed to be hard and done whimsically nor made light of.

Do they not teach history in school any more? Has the liberal teachers union indoctrinated the whole fracking planet?

[Guest NaughtyAshes]

You just demonstrated that you have no awareness of history and have never even browsed the constitution. The US Constitution plainly and clearly states in the 10th amendment: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

The federal government was to be a limited and defined government, not unlimited and undefined. This why they say, "It takes an act of congress," because changing the constitution is supposed to be hard and done whimsically nor made light of.

Do they not teach history in school any more? Has the liberal teachers union indoctrinated the whole fracking planet?

Uhh, i'm aware what the 10th amendment says. I wasn't interested in debating the meaning of it. I was wondering why you think there should even be such a thing as a 10th amendment! Or actually why you think the states having power is preferable to the federal government. The fact of the 10th amendment (which i contend, doesn't limit the federal gov't all that much anyway) is meaningless until you can tell me what justifies it as a good, or desirable thing!

[BoTox]

I don't care about the money or tax issues. I really don't. Everyone deserves the chance to live a happy life, and that's just simple good-nature toward humanity. You don't need party lines to tell you that no one deserves to die because they can't afford healthcare, or can't afford food or clothing for their children. Don't tell me it's impractical - it's necessary. People who don't want to help the poor or don't try to help the poor have clearly never been poor.

Deserves a chance? Yes. Entitled to it at the expense of the earnings of others? No.

I do believe in charity. In previous years I have given plenty in both cash, time and other goods. Lately, not so much because the government is raising my taxes. I gave at the office.

People who don't want to help the poor have never been poor? I beg to differ. I was homeless for a while, though not in the classic sense, and never took a single handout other than to bum a shower at a friends place once in a while. I worked to get myself situated and back on my feet. The Carter years were hard on me. I know what it is to be hungry but I was never helpless. I worked odd jobs, strange hours and got on with what needed to be done.

I know some social workers in very different situations. All of them express great sorrow at the number of people that just want to know how to get another check. Seldom is the success story of someone getting off welfare and into a job. Too many people are too comfortable in poverty and see no need to try.

When the government robs Peter to pay Paul, they can always count on the support of Paul!

Uhh, i'm aware what the 10th amendment says. I wasn't interested in debating the meaning of it. I was wondering why you think there should even be such a thing as a 10th amendment! Or actually why you think the states having power is preferable to the federal government. The fact of the 10th amendment (which i contend, doesn't limit the federal gov't all that much anyway) is meaningless until you can tell me what justifies it as a good, or desirable thing!

I might as well discuss the merits of thumbs with a dog. It would, pun intended, have no grasp of the concepts.

If you will not accept that the framers of the constitution acted out of fear of an all empowered centrally strong government and took great steps to see that it did not happen here, then there is no debate to be had. Your views are so far skewed from reality as I see it that we can no longer converse. Obviously one of us needs therapy and I don't think it is me.

[redneck diaper boy]

http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/isnt-sedition-gop-congressional-cand

violence and racism sanctioned by official tea bagger candidates. Let alone, advocating the destruction of religious freedom by suggesting that Christianity is our state religion.

Being sanction and being committed are two different things. The video I posted show an act of violence in progress.

As for condoning violence here are the words of Thomas Jefferson:

"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion.

The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is

wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts

they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions,

it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ...

And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not

warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of

resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as

to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost

in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from

time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

It is its natural manure."

[Guest NaughtyAshes]

Being sanction and being committed are two different things. The video I posted show an act of violence in progress.

As for condoning violence here are the words of Thomas Jefferson:

"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion.

The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is

wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts

they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions,

it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ...

And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not

warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of

resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as

to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost

in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from

time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

It is its natural manure."

Typical conservative, you are either a hypocrite or a liar. You are a liar, if you say you wanted me to show you a proof of a tea bagger committing violence. You are a hypocrite if you defend said violence and not the violence of that SEIU person, he just trying to defend his country from the evil of the right that we have endured far too long.

but still teabagger violence in the flesh, the truth always wins out!

[Dougie]

Neither political camp is capable or deserving of the right to manage the USA. Left and Right are broken beyond repair.

As a human being, you have the right to oxygen, water, and dirt. You have the opportunity to make use of your given resources to survive. Nothing else is owed to you for being born (nobody is entitled to an iPod just because they are human). As a human you also have a choice to exercise compassion for others. That doesn't mean anyone has the right to coheres you to give, or take anything from you by force or threat.

As an American, you have the previously stated human rights plus protection from undue persecution, a fair trial by jury of your peers, and national protection from foreign military invasion. Anything not given by nature you have the right to pursue. The right to pursue does not mean you are entitled. It simply means if you want something you have to right to work until you achieve your goal. Not everyone will succeed in attaining their goal. That is called life!

Any other line of thought is Marxists in nature and adds no value in a sustainable economic and community model.

You're welcome.

[Bettypooh]

I'll stick my nose in here (and run away before it gets punched)

First, it should be obvious that there are bad people in every political party or movement If the other people throw them out on discovery of this, it's a good thing If they don't, then the overall goodness of the entire group is questionable Bad people are a cancer to society and will kill the larger body if they are not completely removed.

Second, the violence Jefferson spoke of was violence against the government, not against citizens acting within their rights The concept of law and order, which Jefferson was in favor of, was to make changes legally instead of physically except in the case of Government, who must fear the people they rule over to keep the human nature of craving power over others in check Jefferson was for legal protection of individual freedom and rights, including the right to peacefully protest.

Debate is good; argument is not. And personal attacks are against the rules here so please debate nicely

Bettypooh (running yonder rapidly)

[BoTox]

Typical conservative, you are either a hypocrite or a liar. You are a liar, if you say you wanted me to show you a proof of a tea bagger committing violence. You are a hypocrite if you defend said violence and not the violence of that SEIU person, he just trying to defend his country from the evil of the right that we have endured far too long.

but still teabagger violence in the flesh, the truth always wins out!

By my viewing of that, the communist with the Che poster attacked the guy. Regardless of what he did, the guy with the poster took the first swing. For all those that say violence isn't the answer, this guy sure resorted to swinging his stick in record time.

Neither political camp is capable or deserving of the right to manage the USA. Left and Right are broken beyond repair.

As a human being, you have the right to oxygen, water, and dirt. You have the opportunity to make use of your given resources to survive. Nothing else is owed to you for being born (nobody is entitled to an iPod just because they are human). As a human you also have a choice to exercise compassion for others. That doesn't mean anyone has the right to coheres you to give, or take anything from you by force or threat.

As an American, you have the previously stated human rights plus protection from undue persecution, a fair trial by jury of your peers, and national protection from foreign military invasion. Anything not given by nature you have the right to pursue. The right to pursue does not mean you are entitled. It simply means if you want something you have to right to work until you achieve your goal. Not everyone will succeed in attaining their goal. That is called life!

Any other line of thought is Marxists in nature and adds no value in a sustainable economic and community model.

You're welcome.

Amen! I might add that Marxism has already failed several times. What makes the current administration think they can make it work has got to be the definition of insanity: Trying the same thing over and over, expecting different results.

[redneck diaper boy]

If you look at your own video this incident was not perpetuated by the Tea Party! This asshole was looking for trouble. The victim, in the video I showed, had to be taken to the hospital. This incident was taken right out of the Saul Alinsky playbook: "start trouble and blame your enemy"!

As for the other videos, Obama is much like Hitler. Hitler took over manufacturing and banking in the 1930's. Hitler handed out healthcare to everyone, except Jews. Obama screws up everyones healthcare unless you are a union member or government employee. Can you say "national socialist"!

Obamas objective is right out of the Saul Alinsky playbook. His objective is the get the economy is such bad shape that social services becomes overloaded thus America will accept Marxism! What part of Obama intentionally attempting to destroy America do you not understand! Do you want to tell your kids and grandkids about the good times because they may only know tyranny?

As for the violence, the American concentration camps are already in place and staffed. The black gentleman said that violence is on the table. We have already seen black thugs intimidating white voters with impunity in Philadelphia. The government says that the eye-witness accounts and video-tape are "insufficient evidence" for prosecution. I smell corruption!

http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2004/FEMA-Concentration-Camps3sep04.htm

Unless America acts now, and gets rid of the Marxist threat, prepare to loose your personal freedoms! It is time to take America back from the non-American and anti-American President. It is time to rid America of its "Hitler"! The scary thing here is Hitler loved Germany. Obama hates America!

Typical conservative, you are either a hypocrite or a liar. You are a liar, if you say you wanted me to show you a proof of a tea bagger committing violence. You are a hypocrite if you defend said violence and not the violence of that SEIU person, he just trying to defend his country from the evil of the right that we have endured far too long.

but still teabagger violence in the flesh, the truth always wins out!

[ArtemisEnterri]

Typical conservative, you are either a hypocrite or a liar. You are a liar, if you say you wanted me to show you a proof of a tea bagger committing violence. You are a hypocrite if you defend said violence and not the violence of that SEIU person, he just trying to defend his country from the evil of the right that we have endured far too long.

but still teabagger violence in the flesh, the truth always wins out!

Ashes, what planet or universe are you from? The "right" side of the political spectrum IS NOT "evil"!

Do you know the old adage of "Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, he feeds himself for a lifetime."??? Welfare is the "give a man a fish", people who live on welfare year after year mostly DON'T TRY to get off of it. The conservatives believe the "teach a man to fish" part, where people should be responsible for themselves and their futures.

The Conservatives are NOT the ones using racism, class warfare, or violence/intimidation in their activities. It is the LIBERALS who do that! I am friends with over a dozen conservative candidates (for different seats/levels) in my county, and NONE OF THEM are racist, NONE OF THEM use violence or intimidation! It is the liberals who do that over and over and over again. Pay attention to the TV and radio ads. Which ones give a REAL message and which ones only ATTACK their opponent? Every commercial I have seen/heard that is for a liberal candidate ATTACKS the conservative candidate but NEVER says what the liberal candidate would do differently. However, every commercial from a conservative candidate GIVES A MESSAGE about what the candidate BELIEVES and what the candidate PLANS TO DO while in office.

One liberal candidate in particular for my area says on his website "Vote for me because [the conservative incumbent] is crazy." (I won't post candidate names...) The t-shirts worn by his campaign workers and volunteers just says "You tell 'em, [liberal candidate's name]!" Absolutely NO MESSAGE! Meanwhile, the conservative incumbent has acted in the best interests of ALL the voters of the district, not just special interest or minority groups...

And STOP using the childish and rude word of "teabagger". Just because you REFUSE TO UNDERSTAND what the Tea Party is (one of my candidate friends was basically the founder of the Tea Party for our county) does NOT give you any right to be rude or call names. I HAVE ATTENDED Tea Party events, and there was NEVER any violence or racism at those events. The pictures and video clips shown by the Main Stream Media which showed any such incidents at Tea Party events were STAGED by liberal activists who simply don't know what the Tea Party is and would rather fight against it than learn about it.

[DL88]

but still teabagger violence in the flesh, the truth always wins out!

I'm sorry but am I going to be the only one that points this out? I guess so. There is absolutely no evidence that the people on the street corner are infact Tea Party protestors. There are a couple of completely off things about this video.

1. The people on the corner are holding mass produced signs, you can tell this because many of them are the exact same, which people at tea party protests do not have. This is actually a common thread with social progressive protestors not to mention the majority of the signs are of che and you are too far away to actually see what is written on the signs.

2. There is a camera already focused on the crowd on a tripod quite obviously out in the open. There are a ton of variables that come with this but this screams to me "non-news affiliated third party filming." I say this because if it were news affiliated they would have had a much closer shot. So what was this person doing sitting on a corner filming these people for, perhaps waiting for something to happen?

3. The trouble maker seems to come out of nowhere on the right side. What I can gather is he directly comes out of his way, across traffic to make an issue with these people on the street corner. Once he gets there he seemingly starts to walk by and obviously says something to insight these people's anger which essentially means he goes out of his way because he wants to make these people angry at him.

4. When the appearent "violence" breaks out the guy gets what a tap or 2 and otherwise nothing else? There is even a person who is walking towards him while he hits their legs with a stick. Seriously, anyone who has ever been in a fight or who practices martial arts knows that you don't get down and love tap the person's legs with a stick, they will pound you into nothing. In the end everybody just walks away, odd because I thought 2 seconds ago they wanted to "violently" beat this guy senseless right?

I believe this video is fake, it is either staged or it is an agitator going up to a random group of people standing on a street corner just to get some footage of it so they can say, "ZOMG T PARTIE VILENCE RITE HEAR!!!" Which is exactly what you have done. When I look at it, it looks to me like 2 or a whole group of people set up on a street corner with a camera specifically placed at a distance where you really couldn't tell what affiliation the group had just to try to make it look like what it isn't to other people who are all too quick to believe what they want to see.

Also, just a last note, there is STILL absolutely no evidence that the Tea Party people are violent and isn't it odd that they actually never have had rallys turn violent? At the Beck rally at 8/28, which my 90 year old grandmother was at along with over 500,000 other people, there wasn't so much as a piece of trash left on the ground afterward. Why is that? The reason for that is these are people who hold respect for their surroundings as well as for people other than themselves, they aren't your pissy teenage to mid 20's, union affiliated, sign holding, chanting crowds that leave the War memorials flooded with trash after their rally on 10/2/10 where the unions forced people to attend. These crowds have totally different mindsets.

P.S. People at Tea Party rally's normally are wearing red, white, and blue, and are carrying American Flags. That is a big noticable difference between this crowd and Tea Party protestors.

[sarah_ab]

hehehehe tea bagger....

[Guest NaughtyAshes]

Ahh, the old i'm just going to stick my head in the ground and deny deny deny deny tactic. Clever!

Well...and this is my last post in this thread, the fact of the matter is:

Supply-side economics is a failure and a scam:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/12/13/72111/695

and small business fears/hates/distrusts the tea party:

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/10_43/b4200066170117.htm

All future attempts to discuss this issue with myself should be directed to PM where i'll be glad to respond.

[freswith]

My dear, if Daily Kos is your normal reading material, then you have some really serious problems.

[ArtemisEnterri]

Ahh, the old i'm just going to stick my head in the ground and deny deny deny deny tactic. Clever!

Well...and this is my last post in this thread, the fact of the matter is:

Supply-side economics is a failure and a scam:

http://www.dailykos....12/13/72111/695

and small business fears/hates/distrusts the tea party:

http://www.businessw...00066170117.htm

All future attempts to discuss this issue with myself should be directed to PM where i'll be glad to respond.

Really, supply-side economics? Government controlled economics is the TRUE failure, it DESTROYED the USSR.

And saying small business hates the Tea Party is a load of BULLSPIT! That news article was based on ONE group of business people, in ONE part of ONE state! That is NOT indicative of the views of ALL businesses in ALL states!