Healthcare

[ArtemisEnterri]

As far as most Canadians, and much of the rest of the world, are concerned, Obama is the best, last chance for America to pull Herself out of the hole that Bush dug Her into. But I'm not going to argue this any further. If Obama succeeds, hurray for our neighbours to the south! If you succeed, it'll just be the same-old, same-old. Either way, Canada has proven that She can keep Herself from being dragged under by America's struggles, so I don't have to as concerned by any poor choices made by Americans as I may have in the past.

(As a final side note, I do find it interesting to see that you will only be concerned about the unemployment rate when it actually affects you directly.)

The only thing Obama is doing is trying to implement policies used by Soviet Russia before it finally collapsed. Obama and his demorat (misspelling deliberate) friends want the government to have ALL control and want the people to be DEPENDENT on them.

Don't you get it yet? They EXEMPTED THEMSELVES from their plans. EVERYTHING they are passing affects US, the individuals, but NEVER has any affect on any of them! They say they want to "end class warfare", but they are making their own version of it! If they get their way, THEY will be the ONLY "rich" people in America, and EVERYONE ELSE will be POOR! The ONLY way for "everyone to be equal" is if ALL OF US are poor and under/unemployed. Which is EXACTLY what happened in Russia: the politicians were swimming in money and luxury goods while the citizens had almost no money and very little food.

It's a double-standard which PROVES that they are LYING HYPOCRITES!

The Conservatives of the Republican party want to REDUCE the powers of the government and give it back to THE PEOPLE (which is where the power belongs)! But there are too many people in America (and around the world) who are not willing to take the blame for their actions and mistakes, who cry and whine that they can't do things on their own and need someone bigger to do it for them (meaning the government), and blame everyone around them for the mistakes they made (like "it's McDonald's fault that I spilled scalding hot coffee in my lap" - even though the woman held the cup between her legs while driving, or "it's McDonald's fault that I'm so fat, because they sell such fatty food" - even when there are MANY places with HEALTHIER food). THAT is why America has had so much trouble during the past 70+ years. It is NOT the government's job to take care of stupid and lazy people! It is the PEOPLE'S job to TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES!

Back in the Frontier Days people actually took PRIDE in DOING FOR THEMSELVES (working their farm fields, tending to their animals, etc) and HELPING their neighbors (baking meals or working the fields for an ill member of the town), not being lazy asses sponging off the neighbors (which is what the multi-generation welfare lifers do now).

I don't care how many people give me negative rep for my posts, it won't silence me.

[ArtemisEnterri]

Kind of a low blow, but I'll respond...

The reason we are in a recession in the first place, I believe, is due to government invovlement. When Republicans wanted to add more oversight to the Fannie Mae / Freddie Mac programs, Dems said there was no need, they are doing just fine... Yep. Both broke because they backed loans to people who couldn't afford and maintain them. Which put people in debt and the banks holding the bag. Now the banks are going under, they're not lending money anymore. Now, everyone is scared to spend what they got. Kind of like a paradox. People don't buy stuff, so companies aren't producing it, which means employees are working less, which means they spend less... See the paradox?

The whole Freddie/Fannie problem started during Bill Clinton's 2nd term, when democrats in Congress pushed through bills REQUIRING that those loans be issued, and Clinton signed it into law. It pisses me off the number of people who blame Bush for it just because he was the one in office at the time. Bush HAD ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH IT!

Add to this greedy capitalists who took advantage of the American public. Enron, the banks, Madoff, etc...

Not ALL capitalists are greedy.

Are you gonna call the owner of a "Mom & Pop" convenience store greedy when they barely make any profit month after month? What about a guy who owns a small-time lawn mowing service so he can pay for his vehicle loans and his home mortgage, you gonna call him greedy?

It's the MEGA CORPORATIONS that you need to point that anger at, not all capitalists in general. America would not have gotten out of the farming age without capitalists with ideas for new businesses and technologies.

And some of this does need to be fixed. But you can't preempt every single problem out there. There will always be someone out there taking advantage of someone else.

You are right, but for one single entity (particularly when it is the government) to take entire control of a problem is the WRONG WAY TO DO IT!

Why can't people let the Free Market handle it? If one company fails, DON'T BAIL IT OUT, let another company take it over. Which is how the Market worked for over 100 years before this year.

When has the government ever successfully run ANY program????? The government is too full of LAWYERS who have NO BUSINESS SENSE AT ALL. When a program fails, they throw more money into it, WHICH NEVER HELPS! We need actual BUSINESS PEOPLE in DC as Senators and Representatives because THEY would know the difference between a successful program and a failing one.

STILL, WHATEVER THE GOVERNMENT GIVES OUT HAS BEEN TAKEN FROM SOMEONE ELSE.

EXACTLY RIGHT! The government has NO MONEY other than what they TAX FROM US!

[M 90]

ArtemisEnterri - just want to go against the grain and give you a big high five on your past couple of posts.

But the only thing I see differently is your comment about how "conservatives want to give the power back to the people where it belong's". If you are talking about "true" conservatism like Libertarian's or Constitutionalist's which I assume you are talking about than yes I am with you. But if you are talking about Neo-conservatism than I don't get how you can be so right with what you have to say and yet at the same time be so wrong cause the Neo-conservative branch of the Republican party are all about "big government" as well. Just not so much as in "taking care of people" but more so in war mongering and empire expansion oh yeah and article's such as the Patriot Act - how is getting our rights of freedom stripped from us an act of patriotism? Man, the majority of this nation will fall for any fucking thing this government sells to them.

[babyvr6]

But the only thing I see differently is your comment about how "conservatives want to give the power back to the people where it belong's". If you are talking about "true" conservatism like Libertarian's or Constitutionalist's which I assume you are talking about than yes I am with you. But if you are talking about Neo-conservatism than I don't get how you can be so right with what you have to say and yet at the same time be so wrong cause the Neo-conservative branch of the Republican party are all about "big government" as well. Just not so much as in "taking care of people" but more so in war mongering and empire expansion oh yeah and article's such as the Patriot Act - how is getting our rights of freedom stripped from us an act of patriotism? Man, the majority of this nation will fall for any fucking thing this government sells to them.

I wish I could vote this post up more than once.

[ArtemisEnterri]

ArtemisEnterri - just want to go against the grain and give you a big high five on your past couple of posts.

But the only thing I see differently is your comment about how "conservatives want to give the power back to the people where it belong's". If you are talking about "true" conservatism like Libertarian's or Constitutionalist's which I assume you are talking about than yes I am with you. But if you are talking about Neo-conservatism than I don't get how you can be so right with what you have to say and yet at the same time be so wrong cause the Neo-conservative branch of the Republican party are all about "big government" as well. Just not so much as in "taking care of people" but more so in war mongering and empire expansion oh yeah and article's such as the Patriot Act - how is getting our rights of freedom stripped from us an act of patriotism? Man, the majority of this nation will fall for any fucking thing this government sells to them.

I am talking about TRUE conservatives who believe that the Constitution was to be taken as if written in absolute stone, no "reinterpretations".

I am talking about SMALL government whose only concerns are international safety (PROTECTING America from its enemies, foreign or domestic) and international trade. A government that takes its orders directly from the PEOPLE not special interest groups and lobbyists.

Even in the Gettysburg Address, a very important phrase was repeated: Government OF the people (meaning that we choose our representation), BY the people (meaning the representatives we choose are fellow citizens), and FOR the people (meaning that the government works for the whole of the citizens and not just for themselves). Why can't people remember these important words?

[BoTox]

Where our security and freedom are at stake, we have the right and the duty to preemptively strike. Not too sure about Iraq and Vietnam but Afghanistan was a righteous invasion. Personally, I would stop most foreign aid to countries that are not with us and I'd severely cut aid to anyone that has a despot in charge.

[loopy]

Especially when you've already supplied said country with weapons to support said despot? :S Ok another example of a government fucking up.

I think The West being in Afghanistan has created a worse atmosphere for terrorism.... Plus the complete lack of exit strategy/how to rebuild these countries we invade is a major issue.

[M 90]

I am talking about TRUE conservatives who believe that the Constitution was to be taken as if written in absolute stone, no "reinterpretations".

I am talking about SMALL government whose only concerns are international safety (PROTECTING America from its enemies, foreign or domestic) and international trade. A government that takes its orders directly from the PEOPLE not special interest groups and lobbyists.

Even in the Gettysburg Address, a very important phrase was repeated: Government OF the people (meaning that we choose our representation), BY the people (meaning the representatives we choose are fellow citizens), and FOR the people (meaning that the government works for the whole of the citizens and not just for themselves). Why can't people remember these important words?

Well then hop aboard the bus to Freedom! kind sir.

[curiositykilledthecat]

Well then hop aboard the bus to Freedom! kind sir.

Why does it seem that many Canadians carry themselves like they have an inferiority complex? We here in the US do not spend all our time picking on you. you're not important enough to be on our minds at all times. Not until we find a way to cheaply extract oil from the shoal. I love Canada, I just rather live here, well preferably somewhere warmer and a little less blue.

[M 90]

ame='M 90' date='18 December 2009 - 11:33 PM' timestamp='1261200791' post='256597']

Where our security and freedom are at stake, we have the right and the duty to preemptively strike. Not too sure about Iraq and Vietnam but Afghanistan was a righteous invasion. Personally, I would stop most foreign aid to countries that are not with us and I'd severely cut aid to anyone that has a despot in charge.

Korea, Vietnam and Iraq were bull shit! Afghanistan... perhaps there is a just reason for being over there and that's assuming Osama Bin Laden and Al-Queda are solely responsible for one of the most tragic days of our nation, a lot of people do not realize that Osama Bin Laden is technically only a suspect for being involved in the 9-11 attacks. According to the FBI he is only wanted for being in connection with the August 7, 1998 Bombings of the U.S. embassies in Dar Es Salaam, Tanzania, and Nairobi, Kenya. Wait a second! Tanzania and Kenya? how is the U.S. involved with these attacks? oh yeah, more foriegn relations crap. Anyway, I will add that no where on his FBI wanted poster does it say anything about being wanted for the 9-11 attacks, see for yourself: My link.

Well assuming that Osama and Al-Queda are responsible I will ask you, who do you think was responsible for putting Osama Bin Laden in power in the first place? Yes, the good ol' U.S. of A.'s government back when Communist Russia was the boogeyman. And why did we put him in power and train him and the Taliban to be such supposed bad-ass's? to combat invading Russian Commies. So there you go if it wasn't for US military and CIA trained Osama Bin Laden there perhaps would not have been a 9-11 and it also proves that there is no good or just reason to get tangled up in foriegn affairs!

[curiositykilledthecat]

Korea, Vietnam and Iraq were bull shit! Afghanistan... perhaps there is a just reason for being over there and that's assuming Osama Bin Laden and Al-Queda are solely responsible for one of the most tragic days of our nation, a lot of people do not realize that Osama Bin Laden is technically only a suspect for being involved in the 9-11 attacks. According to the FBI he is only wanted for being in connection with the August 7, 1998 Bombings of the U.S. embassies in Dar Es Salaam, Tanzania, and Nairobi, Kenya. Wait a second! Tanzania and Kenya? how is the U.S. involved with these attacks? oh yeah, more foriegn relations crap. Anyway, I will add that no where on his FBI wanted poster does it say anything about being wanted for the 9-11 attacks, see for yourself: My link.

Well assuming that Osama and Al-Queda are responsible I will ask you, who do you think was responsible for putting Osama Bin Laden in power in the first place? Yes, the good ol' U.S. of A.'s government back when Communist Russia was the boogeyman. And why did we put him in power and train him and the Taliban to be such supposed bad-ass's? to combat invading Russian Commies. So there you go if it wasn't for US military and CIA trained Osama Bin Laden there perhaps would not have been a 9-11 and it also proves that there is no good or just reason to get tangled up in foriegn affairs!

I do have to agree, many of America's wounds are self inflicted. We did put Castro and Osama in power.

[redneck diaper boy]

But the worst mistake America ever made was electing Obama!

Now Nashville is getting it! Here is a funny but profound Ray Stevens video.

I do have to agree, many of America's wounds are self inflicted. We did put Castro and Osama in power.

[collegebaby86]

I don't think anyone important ever really expects a fully nationalized system to ever operate in this country. The private sector is massive, and there is no way that juggernaut would ever fall, they've invested too much in our lobbyists. The only plausible solution is to have a combination, a free sector and a private sector, which would help to increase competition and help drive down price, which is pretty much the whole point of capitalism. This isn't so hard to figure out, there are many other countries doing it better than us, why can't we just learn from them? America is a blend of many cultures and beliefs, and that's what makes us strong. We need to tackle this issue in a bi-partisan and constructive way, otherwise no one will get the care that they deserve, and the private sector will continue to squeeze the populace. It's absolutely ridiculous that we haven't solved this yet, I really think the upcoming elections will be interesting.

[M 90]

I don't think anyone important ever really expects a fully nationalized system to ever operate in this country. The private sector is massive, and there is no way that juggernaut would ever fall, they've invested too much in our lobbyists. The only plausible solution is to have a combination, a free sector and a private sector, which would help to increase competition and help drive down price, which is pretty much the whole point of capitalism. This isn't so hard to figure out, there are many other countries doing it better than us, why can't we just learn from them? America is a blend of many cultures and beliefs, and that's what makes us strong. We need to tackle this issue in a bi-partisan and constructive way, otherwise no one will get the care that they deserve, and the private sector will continue to squeeze the populace. It's absolutely ridiculous that we haven't solved this yet, I really think the upcoming elections will be interesting.

Alright cool, you sound like you know what you are talking about. I am not opposed to a Health Care Reform just this paricular one. Sure it would help out the little guy but at the expense of the tax payer (which is already the case actually) while fattening the bank accounts and giving the enemy more power by the privitization, that is basically why I am against it.

[Wet_in_NKY]

Ok, I want to bring something up:

This "Universal" health care bill is a crock of shit. First off, once this bill passes (and anymore, its not an "if" statement,) you are forced to get health insurance. If you choose to exercise your freedom of choice and not get insurance, you will be fined every month (up to $1500/mo) up to three months. Once you come up to the three months, you are arrested and thrown in jail. Oh, did I mention that you cannot have a fine on your record before buying health insurance?

This is a government that cares more about becoming socialist than it does about the health and profits of the country. Obama forced banks to take buyout money in the form of the bailouts, in exchange the government took 51-75% of company assets. When the companies went to pay the money back, Obama's initial response was to refuse. Why? Because Obama wants to socialize the banking industry. Not until the media broke this story did Obama start accepting the money back for the banks' assets.

Obama has completely screwed up our free market as well. When GM prepared to fold, Obama bought out the company. However, Toyota at the time was poised to take the marketshare of GM, including the jobs, and the turnaround would have been less than 2 years. How can this be? This is how Free Market works.

Obama has already passed $4 TRILLION onto our children to regenerate jobs in 2012, right before the elections, even though he promised immediate results when this passed.

So when I say that Obama is a lying, secretive socialist, I don't say that because I don't personally like the guy, I know his policies and am willing to stand up for individual rights.

[redneck diaper boy]

A lot of people are catching on. The people that voted for this piece of shit president are now realizing their error.

Bernie Madoff will be in prison for the rest of his life for the same crime that Congress is about ready to commit. Any Congressman that votes for this healthcare bill should be arrested for treason and implementation of a “PONZI scheme