Poll-atics

[Vic]

Hey Red,

your friends and you can keep up with the radical "Obama is a racist muslim" propaganda all you like. McCain has all the republicans I know so pissed off that none of them are voting this year, cool with me.

His choice in running mate might be genius, or folly, I'm hoping the latter, as we can ill afford another four years of Bush's policies. I can't see putting a woman with two years experience in politics into a position to be commander in chief if John boy should slip and break his hip during his time as president.

In the end it doesn't really matter though, because everything is run by the real people at the top, that one tenth of one percent who own this country and every politician in it. If Obama were to win and buck the system, well then he'd be assassinated in the first year of his presidency, we can't win. We just don't have the money or power to win out.

So vote for McCain this year if you want, he is the depends poster boy anyway.

Peace,

Vic

[OneSickPuppy]

This is why we should go back to the original american system where only people who had an actual stake in america were allowed to decide its outcome. It is quite clear that the average citizen does not understand government. It seems the american sheeple still follow slick words and rally behind them blindly.

Obama obviously does not have a clue what he is doing. He cant make up his mind and has no clue about running even a household properly. We do remember a previous leader like this in history with great presence and speaking ability. You would know this man as Adolph Hitler. Though hitler had a better grasp on politics.

Hillary are the clintons .... get real. These people have already sold us to the chinese and to the corporations of america. Some of you may have heard of Enron and the many loopholes opened up by the clintons for big business to take advantage of the loopholes they fell with. Those of you who have had your jobs shipped overseas should also take a minute of silence to think clintonism. Hopefully some of you are going to wise up before voting on "government healthcare" in america before jumping on its bandwagon. Until the current system is repaired, a government system will be blanket medicare with the system getting absolutely raped by the pharmaceutical industry even more than presently. Who stands to win in that situation? The rich investors not the people. Lets at least give clintons credit in the only way they ever did anything positive ... they had a party in the white house and everyone was gettin some.

McCain ... living in a prison camp should not be a reason to say you should be president. Its a reason to throw a welcome home party and cut you a monthly check for your services to your country. It ends there.

My vote is going to Bill Gates/Frank Zappa. Who better to be an aggressive leader and fix our monetary issues in this giant business? He is one of 3 people in america qualified to run this corporation. Frankie ... god rest your soul ... your musical satire will bring the first real joy the sheeple have encountered since they first got the right to vote without understanding how to vote.

America needs the change to a true leader who will benefit the people not more bushlike choices that we have now.

[redneck diaper boy]

In reality, you only have 2 choices, McCain or Obamination. McCain is the lessor of 2 evils. I really like his VP pick. She should be president! Palin is certainly more qualified to be president than Obama.

Obama is a true idiot. Obama thinks that we can achieve the same result by inflating tires as drilling for our own oil. The Republicans should be handing out tire guages and rectal thermometers. If Obama gets elected, bend over!

Pastor James D Manning of Harlem NY has Obama's number. Here is the video:

The Democrats had a parade of loosers at their convention:

Obama has no clue on any issue. He is nothing more than a black agitator. If Obama was a white man, he would never be even close to where he is now. All Obama says is "change" but he is never really specific except on taxes. Obama wants to punish the producers of wealth. Nobody on welfare employs people!

Jimmy Carter was the worst president in my lifetime. Carter had the nerve to state that McCain was exploiting his POW status. Carter never commented on John Kerry's exploitation and lies. Nobody should disagree with me unless they are my age or older. I was there.

Al Gore travels in a private jet and wants me to modify my lifestyle. He is soo full of shit.

The Clinton's killed anyone that had any dirty laundry on them.

Ted Kennedy killed Mary Jo Kopechne and got away with it. He got to speak at the convention. John Edwards only had an affair and was banished from the convention!

John Kerry lied about his activities in Viet Nam and he lied to Congress.

By the way, I am a Zappa fan. I was in high school when his first album came out. 'apostrophe

Bill Gates is the model of the American dream. Go Bill.

This is why we should go back to the original american system where only people who had an actual stake in america were allowed to decide its outcome. It is quite clear that the average citizen does not understand government. It seems the american sheeple still follow slick words and rally behind them blindly.

Obama obviously does not have a clue what he is doing. He cant make up his mind and has no clue about running even a household properly. We do remember a previous leader like this in history with great presence and speaking ability. You would know this man as Adolph Hitler. Though hitler had a better grasp on politics.

Hillary are the clintons .... get real. These people have already sold us to the chinese and to the corporations of america. Some of you may have heard of Enron and the many loopholes opened up by the clintons for big business to take advantage of the loopholes they fell with. Those of you who have had your jobs shipped overseas should also take a minute of silence to think clintonism. Hopefully some of you are going to wise up before voting on "government healthcare" in america before jumping on its bandwagon. Until the current system is repaired, a government system will be blanket medicare with the system getting absolutely raped by the pharmaceutical industry even more than presently. Who stands to win in that situation? The rich investors not the people. Lets at least give clintons credit in the only way they ever did anything positive ... they had a party in the white house and everyone was gettin some.

McCain ... living in a prison camp should not be a reason to say you should be president. Its a reason to throw a welcome home party and cut you a monthly check for your services to your country. It ends there.

My vote is going to Bill Gates/Frank Zappa. Who better to be an aggressive leader and fix our monetary issues in this giant business? He is one of 3 people in america qualified to run this corporation. Frankie ... god rest your soul ... your musical satire will bring the first real joy the sheeple have encountered since they first got the right to vote without understanding how to vote.

America needs the change to a true leader who will benefit the people not more bushlike choices that we have now.

[sarah_ab]

I'm going to vote for nappy naperson.. his name instills a sense of safety and security in me.. i wonder why!!!!

[Vic]

Go redneck go! I'm your age, and I wasn't there, wanted to be, but wasn't....too young. I did have the gulf though, I still can't go with McCain, sure he's not a drug dealer like the Clintons were, but he offers no change from the course we're on.

I'd love to vote Gates / Zappa, (God rest Frank and Greggory Peccary), but I remember that the last time I voted for Mickey Mouse Bill Clinton won. Can't see doing that this year with so much at stake. It would be folly.

Besides, if Obama makes it the guys up top will be PISSED! I always like to piss the VIP's off, the creme de la creme are too powerful as it is, so yeah I'll vote to upset their applecart any day of the week. Call me crazy, but McCain doesn't get my vote.

Why is it now that John boy (geriatric boy) say's he'll bring change? What change is that? I don't see it, and don't believe that he'll even try to take on anybody in DC, but rather just go along with the system the way the system is just like everybody else.

I don't believe he has the youth and vigor to take up ANY kind of fight against the way things are done, rather he'll cave and things will go on as they have for the past eight years. Losers? I think the American people will be the losers that you refer to redneck, if McCain wins this election. You can't spend twenty six years playing the game, and suddenly say "I'm gonna change the system" it just doesn't wash. It totally reeks of insincerity.

Vote the way you want, I'm voting my conscience this year. If Ron Paul had a snowballs chance in hell I'd vote for him, but he doesn't and niether does Rader, so that pick is out, guess that only leaves me with one choice. Also I enjoyed your little video about that mythical creature Jesus and how he'd smite Obama down. I used to have a hard time figuring you out redneck, but now that I know that you're another bible thumping right wing holy roller it is much easier for me to dismiss you out of hand.

By the way, have you ever bothered to look on the net to find out what Obama is really trying to accomplish? I know it's way too easy to find blog after blog that accuses him of this and that, but that is just all of those self-rightious people trying to drag him down. They don't need an ounce of proof to go out there and spread all of the viscious lies and propaganda they want.

There are far too many sheep that will hear a rumor, and instead of checking it for ANY validity will go running for the hills(in this case voting republican when they are already sick of that ticket). It is indeed a shame that people are like that, as it means that we'll probably be stuck with another four years of the same old (really old) crap.

Peace,

Vic

[redneck diaper boy]

Look I am not voting to put McCain in. I am voting to keep Obama out.

My father fought in Korea. I am not about to vote for Obama who is a Muslim and Communist.

Obama has admitted to being a Muslim. It is Muslims who terrorized America.

Here is the video of Obama fessing up.

Yes America needs some change but we don't need Communism.

We don't need the confiscation of wealth, from the producers of wealth, to render to crackheads.

Obama is against domestic oil production. He could care less about the economy or our national security.

Obama has no experience in anything except being a black agitator.

Go redneck go! I'm your age, and I wasn't there, wanted to be, but wasn't....too young. I did have the gulf though, I still can't go with McCain, sure he's not a drug dealer like the Clintons were, but he offers no change from the course we're on.

I'd love to vote Gates / Zappa, (God rest Frank and Greggory Peccary), but I remember that the last time I voted for Mickey Mouse Bill Clinton won. Can't see doing that this year with so much at stake. It would be folly.

Besides, if Obama makes it the guys up top will be PISSED! I always like to piss the VIP's off, the creme de la creme are too powerful as it is, so yeah I'll vote to upset their applecart any day of the week. Call me crazy, but McCain doesn't get my vote.

Why is it now that John boy (geriatric boy) say's he'll bring change? What change is that? I don't see it, and don't believe that he'll even try to take on anybody in DC, but rather just go along with the system the way the system is just like everybody else.

I don't believe he has the youth and vigor to take up ANY kind of fight against the way things are done, rather he'll cave and things will go on as they have for the past eight years. Losers? I think the American people will be the losers that you refer to redneck, if McCain wins this election. You can't spend twenty six years playing the game, and suddenly say "I'm gonna change the system" it just doesn't wash. It totally reeks of insincerity.

Vote the way you want, I'm voting my conscience this year. If Ron Paul had a snowballs chance in hell I'd vote for him, but he doesn't and niether does Rader, so that pick is out, guess that only leaves me with one choice. Also I enjoyed your little video about that mythical creature Jesus and how he'd smite Obama down. I used to have a hard time figuring you out redneck, but now that I know that you're another bible thumping right wing holy roller it is much easier for me to dismiss you out of hand.

By the way, have you ever bothered to look on the net to find out what Obama is really trying to accomplish? I know it's way too easy to find blog after blog that accuses him of this and that, but that is just all of those self-rightious people trying to drag him down. They don't need an ounce of proof to go out there and spread all of the viscious lies and propaganda they want.

There are far too many sheep that will hear a rumor, and instead of checking it for ANY validity will go running for the hills(in this case voting republican when they are already sick of that ticket). It is indeed a shame that people are like that, as it means that we'll probably be stuck with another four years of the same old (really old) crap.

Peace,

Vic

[FretaBWet]

Redneck, you're exactly the type of voter the Republican party loves. A person who votes for a Republican when it is completely against their best interest. It really doesn't matter what Barak says or does, you're going to vote for McCain anyway. He could be running with Charles Manson and people like you would vote for him anyway. I don't believe there is anything I could say to sway you're opinion but I can't sit by and not stand up and tell the other side of it because that might make others think you're right, and I don't believe you are.

Republicans have the reputation for fiscal conservatism and brand Democrats as tax and spend liberals. You would perpetuate this myth with this statement from your previous post.

"We don't need the confiscation of wealth, from the producers of wealth, to render to crackheads."

I would urge you or anyone to check out this web page: http://zfacts.com/p/318.html I ask you this question: when your safety and security is clearly threatened on two fronts, does it make any difference to only address one of them? I ask this because the safety and security of our country is clearly threatened by our national debt and our current deficit spending. What good is it going to do to protect us from terrorists when our country is being destroyed from within by Republican policies that McCain wants to continue? If you think this is just some theory maybe you should study your history a little more. The reason the Soviet Union who at the time were the #2 superpower on earth went down in flames wasn't because we went to war with them in the physical sense or because they just woke up one morning and said lets just give up communism. They went down in flames because President Reagan ran the national debt through the roof building up our military and the Russians had to try to match us. We broke them through bankruptcy not through bombs.

President Clinton balanced the budget after the first Bush and used the surplus to start paying down Reagan's debt. This was a fiscally responsible thing to do yet Republicans tried to impeach him.

The second group of people the Republicans love are the religious right. They will willingly vote Republican over the abortion issue even though it hurts them economically. Think about this, abortion was decided by the Supreme Court so there is nothing the Republicans can really do about it. Want proof? Eight years of Reagan, four years of Bush 1 and eight years of Bush 2. No change in abortion law because they don't have the power to change it. What an issue, we're against abortion so vote for us, we won't do anything about it but we'll rape you financially for all our wealthy friends and corporations and you'll love us for it. Abortion is the one plank of the Republican platform that doesn't cost one red cent and they can't be blamed for not delivering on.

Barak didn't admit to being a Muslim. I could type this in one thousand times but it wouldn't make any difference to you Redneck because you WANT to believe he is. He was being interviewed about his religious beliefs. Many people out there think he's is Muslim because some Republicans work very hard to spread that rumor to scare people on the fence from voting for him. As a loyal Republican you're working very hard to perpetuate that myth. It was a slip of the tongue. It happens to everyone now and then. It's so easy to be discussing your beliefs trying to explain your Christianity while your mind is trying to think of a way to diplomatically say you're not Muslim without offending Muslims and it comes out backward.

I could be wrong Redneck but my guess is this statement may have the most to do with your opposition of Barak.

"Obama has no experience in anything except being a black agitator."

I also don't think his being an agitator has anything to do with it really. If you're wondering why I think that it's because of your user name here.

Hugs,

Freta

[Vic]

Yup, I'm a redneck and that's all you need to know. You want to know something redneck? My father is rich, not terribly rich, but he's got a few million stashed away. Whenever I need reassurance that I've picked the right candidate I merely look at who he backs, and then vote the opposite. That way I know which way is the right way.

Like you he hates Obama, who he calls "Mr Rock Star", but I know him, he's just a bigot. And no I will NEVER receive any money from him, after abusing all his boys and molesting his daughter he feels that "none of you is worthy" to be left anything.

He has backed the wrong candidate at almost every election. Like you he's a dyed in the wool republican and you could run Osama Bin Laden on the republican ticket and he'd vote for him. I don't care if you're republican or democrat, as long as I can see some sort of change in the way things are done, I vote for that change.

Politicians are like diapers, both should be changed often, and for the same reason. No pun intended. Redneck you are really pathetic to me, all you offer is the same regurgitated crap that you can find on any Obama blasting blog (of which there are many).

Now you don't find as many blogs blasting McCain, and why is that? Is it because he's better than Obama? Or is it because the Obama supporters take the high road and refuse to get into this unsubstantiated name calling that all the rednecks are falling all over themselves to spew out into the nether world of the internet?

If you were a worthy opponent I would love to engage in a debate with you, a battle of wits if you will, but I can't as you are only half there. In the meantime, lambast me as you see fit, I will however, make you look like the simpleton that you are. Vote McCain, go ahead, but don't expect to see any change from his white house.

It is insanity to do the same thing over and over, yet expect different results. If you are truly tired of the Bush years, then vote a different ticket. If you want to continue to go down with a sinking ship, then feel free to vote McCain, and watch our once truly great nation go down in flames. If you want change, then vote Obama. That's all I can say.

Peace,

Vic

[redneck diaper boy]

If you want to talk about increasing debt, talk about Obama!

Obama wants to nationalize healthcare. That is bad news. Everything that the government touches tuns into shit. America has the best healthcare system in the world. If that was not the case, people from all over the world would not be seeking treatment in America. Look at the UK. The UK rations healthcare.

If you think taxing the rich is not going to have an effect on you, you are ignorant. Ronald Reagan prooved that tax revenues increase when capital remains in the hands of the people who produce it.

Obama wants to give poor Americans a tax cut. How in the hell do you cut taxes on people who already pay no income tax? If it is a refundable tax credit, Obama is buying votes and increasing the debt.

We are spending money now because of a war. Saddam had yellow cake uranium. Saddam was in the process of constructing a nuclear bomb. Attacking Iraq was the right thing to do.

If you want to talk about security, for exactly seven years, there has not been a repeat of 9-11.

The economy has never been in recession! There has yet to be a quarter that the economy did not grow. The Bush tax cuts kept the economy afloat. The high price of oil is hurting everyone. Oil is expensive because of world demand. Again, Obama does not want us to recover our own oil. For that reason alone, he should not be president.

How can anyone say that Obama is not a Muslim when there is video of him admitting it? The preson conducting the interview corrected him!

Obama and Osama; they are both dangerous.

Redneck, you're exactly the type of voter the Republican party loves. A person who votes for a Republican when it is completely against their best interest. It really doesn't matter what Barak says or does, you're going to vote for McCain anyway. He could be running with Charles Manson and people like you would vote for him anyway. I don't believe there is anything I could say to sway you're opinion but I can't sit by and not stand up and tell the other side of it because that might make others think you're right, and I don't believe you are.

Republicans have the reputation for fiscal conservatism and brand Democrats as tax and spend liberals. You would perpetuate this myth with this statement from your previous post.

"We don't need the confiscation of wealth, from the producers of wealth, to render to crackheads."

I would urge you or anyone to check out this web page: http://zfacts.com/p/318.html I ask you this question: when your safety and security is clearly threatened on two fronts, does it make any difference to only address one of them? I ask this because the safety and security of our country is clearly threatened by our national debt and our current deficit spending. What good is it going to do to protect us from terrorists when our country is being destroyed from within by Republican policies that McCain wants to continue? If you think this is just some theory maybe you should study your history a little more. The reason the Soviet Union who at the time were the #2 superpower on earth went down in flames wasn't because we went to war with them in the physical sense or because they just woke up one morning and said lets just give up communism. They went down in flames because President Reagan ran the national debt through the roof building up our military and the Russians had to try to match us. We broke them through bankruptcy not through bombs.

President Clinton balanced the budget after the first Bush and used the surplus to start paying down Reagan's debt. This was a fiscally responsible thing to do yet Republicans tried to impeach him.

The second group of people the Republicans love are the religious right. They will willingly vote Republican over the abortion issue even though it hurts them economically. Think about this, abortion was decided by the Supreme Court so there is nothing the Republicans can really do about it. Want proof? Eight years of Reagan, four years of Bush 1 and eight years of Bush 2. No change in abortion law because they don't have the power to change it. What an issue, we're against abortion so vote for us, we won't do anything about it but we'll rape you financially for all our wealthy friends and corporations and you'll love us for it. Abortion is the one plank of the Republican platform that doesn't cost one red cent and they can't be blamed for not delivering on.

Barak didn't admit to being a Muslim. I could type this in one thousand times but it wouldn't make any difference to you Redneck because you WANT to believe he is. He was being interviewed about his religious beliefs. Many people out there think he's is Muslim because some Republicans work very hard to spread that rumor to scare people on the fence from voting for him. As a loyal Republican you're working very hard to perpetuate that myth. It was a slip of the tongue. It happens to everyone now and then. It's so easy to be discussing your beliefs trying to explain your Christianity while your mind is trying to think of a way to diplomatically say you're not Muslim without offending Muslims and it comes out backward.

I could be wrong Redneck but my guess is this statement may have the most to do with your opposition of Barak.

"Obama has no experience in anything except being a black agitator."

I also don't think his being an agitator has anything to do with it really. If you're wondering why I think that it's because of your user name here.

Hugs,

Freta

[DL88]

Yup, I'm a redneck and that's all you need to know. You want to know something redneck? My father is rich, not terribly rich, but he's got a few million stashed away. Whenever I need reassurance that I've picked the right candidate I merely look at who he backs, and then vote the opposite. That way I know which way is the right way.

Like you he hates Obama, who he calls "Mr Rock Star", but I know him, he's just a bigot. And no I will NEVER receive any money from him, after abusing all his boys and molesting his daughter he feels that "none of you is worthy" to be left anything.

He has backed the wrong candidate at almost every election. Like you he's a dyed in the wool republican and you could run Osama Bin Laden on the republican ticket and he'd vote for him. I don't care if you're republican or democrat, as long as I can see some sort of change in the way things are done, I vote for that change.

Politicians are like diapers, both should be changed often, and for the same reason. No pun intended. Redneck you are really pathetic to me, all you offer is the same regurgitated crap that you can find on any Obama blasting blog (of which there are many).

Now you don't find as many blogs blasting McCain, and why is that? Is it because he's better than Obama? Or is it because the Obama supporters take the high road and refuse to get into this unsubstantiated name calling that all the rednecks are falling all over themselves to spew out into the nether world of the internet?

If you were a worthy opponent I would love to engage in a debate with you, a battle of wits if you will, but I can't as you are only half there. In the meantime, lambast me as you see fit, I will however, make you look like the simpleton that you are. Vote McCain, go ahead, but don't expect to see any change from his white house.

It is insanity to do the same thing over and over, yet expect different results. If you are truly tired of the Bush years, then vote a different ticket. If you want to continue to go down with a sinking ship, then feel free to vote McCain, and watch our once truly great nation go down in flames. If you want change, then vote Obama. That's all I can say.

Peace,

Vic

ooooooohhhhh looks like this is the political thread that is having all of the fun! Don't worry about these people anymore redneck, they scream about "change" because some politician goes on a Bush bashing spree and throws the words "hope, action, change, and believe" and some of these people are getting wetter than a drunk college chick at marde gras.

Vic and Freta if you wanna get into some real discussion about blogs, bias, name calling, and people doing what they are told, keep it up and then we will see who is really drinking the kool-aid and following a politician blindly.

But while you guys are calming down a bit from this little masquerade lets enjoy something nice.....like....a list of foiled terrorist attacks since 9/11

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,335500,00.html

P.S. Vic calling people names is my fav!

[PampersPete]

It is Muslims who terrorized America.

According to this logic,we need to murder all the Catholic priests as well because the majority of them are little boy fuckers.....

[DL88]

According to this logic,we need to murder all the Catholic priests as well because the majority of them are little boy fuckers.....

Alright pete, you need to just go away, all of your thoughts and opinions are just way too out there and most of them are just wrong. I am talking about wrong as in not factual.

By all of the posts you have recently made about politics you have absolutely no credibilty, and just seem to spout out any rumor you hear that sounds so out there, you hope that for once you will get the attention you want even if it is purely for shock value.

Anyone who reads these boards now knows this about you, you are absolutely lost mentally and it is not worth talking to you or even giving you verification that you are even present in the conversation.

Next time pete, try not sounding clinically insane. Goodbye.

[PampersPete]

Alright pete, you need to just go away, all of your thoughts and opinions are just way too out there and most of them are just wrong. I am talking about wrong as in not factual.

By all of the posts you have recently made about politics you have absolutely no credibilty, and just seem to spout out any rumor you hear that sounds so out there, you hope that for once you will get the attention you want even if it is purely for shock value.

Anyone who reads these boards now knows this about you, you are absolutely lost mentally and it is not worth talking to you or even giving you verification that you are even present in the conversation.

Next time pete, try not sounding clinically insane.

Thanks n00bie. I'll keep that in mind next time I have a rational thought

[Vic]

oooooohhh! I love this, two (count them two) fundamentalist right wing, God fearin white folk telling me about the danger represented by the choice of a black presidential candidate (can you spell candidate?).

First, I voted for Reagan, he was the only sane choice at the time, and I voted for him for a second term, (I was in the army by then and he was good for us). I didn't agree with "trickle down" scenarios then, and I still don't. Those rich bastards have great lawyers and can get out of paying taxes then and now anyway.

As far as breaking up terrorist plots, well in 1982 I read many reports that explained we were wide open to terrorist attacks back then as well. That was way back in 82! The cases you report are all little plans that were discovered (and I'm sure that the Patriot act had NOTHING to do with them) could have been found out about at ANY time by a vigilant FBI or CIA.

I simply view you both as right wing extremists with nothing more to do than to populate ANY forum that will have you with right wing propaganda, and surely we don't need all of that crap filling up a site such as this.

The Patriot act has NOTHING to do with making this country safe, but has a lot to do with increasing the governments ability to monitor your phone calls and e-mails for anything they don't like, (maybe calling it un-American?). It does absolutely nothing to make us any safer, just more under their thumbs, (can you say we're screwed?).

Watch out for black men and anybody who doeasn't like the Bush administration, you both are jokes, but I can't find the punchline, so you're bad jokes to say the least.

Peace,

Vic

[PampersPete]

It is Muslims who terrorized America.

Next US terror attack 'could be by white Americans or Europeans'

Published on 10-09-2008

Source: Telegraph

As Barack Obama and John McCain head to New York's Ground Zero seven years after 19 Middle-Eastern hijackers brought devastation to the US mainland, counter-terrorism experts believe that any future attack will be made by terrorists with an "American face".

They point to reports of white faces in terrorism training camps in Pakistan - the so-called "white men of Waziristan", a reference to the remote tribal area where both al-Qaeda and the Taliban have bases.

Experts believe that dozens of westerners have undergone such training as their leaders try to recruit non-Middle Eastern Asians, particularly ethnic Caucasians, who are less likely to attract the attention of security and law enforcement agencies.

Al-Qaeda's recent decision to put out videos in English and a similar change on extremist "jihadi" websites have also been cited of evidence of a new strategy to find recruits who are less likely to attract the attention of security and law enforcement agencies.

Such concerns were sharpened last week after the arrest of three Germans over an alleged plot to destroy a club used by US servicemen.

Two of the three were white, ethnic Germans and all had allegedly been trained in camps in Waziristan.

"There is no bigger worry for the US counter-terrorism community than young Caucasian men who have turned to al-Qaeda," Roger Cressey, a former National Security Council official in the Clinton and Bush administrations, told the US news network MSNBC.

Terrorism experts say such a threat has been known about even before the arrest of Richard Reid, the British shoe bomber. However, it was not until three weeks ago that a US official explicitly admitted that the government knew of such people being trained in significant numbers.

In a little reported speech, Ted Gistaro, the US national intelligence officer for transnational threats, said that al-Qaeda was training and "positioning" its operatives for attacks in the West, probably including the US.

He added: "These operatives include North American and European citizens, and legal residents with passports that allow them to travel to the United States without a US visa.

"

Mr Cressey, the council's director for transnational threats at the time of 9/11, said that President Bush last month hosted a joint meeting of the NSC and the Homeland Security Council to discuss current threats.

The training of the type of people identified by Mr Gistaro was "the single biggest concern" at the meeting because "they can't be tracked and they're not in anyone's database," said Mr Cressey.

Prof Bruce Hoffman, a terrorism expert at Georgetown University, said that the Western al-Qaeda recruits probably "run into the dozens" and did not need to be white to be useful to the terrorist group.

"Europe provides a potentially large pool from which al-Qaeda can draw. It's hard to put a figure on them but it's certainly beyond the ones and twos," he said.

"The group's having to find new ways to penetrate our defences. So, in a sense, this is a consequence of our own success.

"

Last month, the Homeland Security Department announced a plan to require visitors from 27 friendly countries, including Britain, to register online at least three days before flying to the US to allow more time for terrorism checks.

In Manhattan today, Mr McCain and Mr Obama have agreed to help keep the focus on remembering 9/11 rather than the election when they attend the ceremonial reading of victims' names.

Detailed designs for a 47,500-sq ft pavilion for a Sept 11 museum at the World Trade Centre site were unveiled yesterday. The three-storey glass and steel building was inspired by the Twin Towers.

Writing in the Wall Street Journal yesterday, Michael Bloomberg, New York's mayor, said there should be "no more excuses, no more delays" on completing a memorial by the 10th anniversary of the attacks.

Progress on redeveloping the WTC site had been "frustratingly slow", in large part because of administrative bureaucracy, he said.

[DL88]

oooooohhh! I love this, two (count them two) fundamentalist right wing, God fearin white folk telling me about the danger represented by the choice of a black presidential candidate (can you spell candidate?).

Thanks for the rascist slur (can you spell rascist?). Republicans have never made an issue of Obama's color, only he has, post on here proof that McCain has used it against him please. If I remember correctly Obama was the one saying that we were "trying to scare people because he didn't look like the other presidents" By the way, two? I guess you are too busy bumping OLD posts from before even McCain was elected in the primary elections to see the other thread.

As far as breaking up terrorist plots, well in 1982 I read many reports that explained we were wide open to terrorist attacks back then as well. That was way back in 82! The cases you report are all little plans that were discovered (and I'm sure that the Patriot act had NOTHING to do with them) could have been found out about at ANY time by a vigilant FBI or CIA.

If I remember correctly, it was Clinton who downsized the military and the U.S. intel. Of course you being in the military would remember that right?

I didn't agree with "trickle down" scenarios then, and I still don't. Those rich bastards have great lawyers and can get out of paying taxes then and now anyway.

Um you do realize that the "top 1%" of this country pay over 40% of the taxes right? They don't get out of anything lol

I simply view you both as right wing extremists with nothing more to do than to populate ANY forum that will have you with right wing propaganda, and surely we don't need all of that crap filling up a site such as this.

Since when am I a "right wing extremists? Read some of my other posts and then classify me ok bud. Again, reading the NEW thread would show you there are more of us here than you, you just have loud speakers. Again, read the NEW thread and get up to date and come back when you can read ok

[DL88]

The Patriot act has NOTHING to do with making this country safe, but has a lot to do with increasing the governments ability to monitor your phone calls and e-mails for anything they don't like, (maybe calling it un-American?). It does absolutely nothing to make us any safer, just more under their thumbs, (can you say we're screwed?).

You mean the act that made it legal for the U.S. Gov't to monitor INTERNATIONAL phonecalls from terrorist supporting countries in order to keep this country safe. Read that other post I did with the foiled attacks since 9/11 then come back later.

Watch out for black men and anybody who doeasn't like the Bush administration, you both are jokes, but I can't find the punchline, so you're bad jokes to say the least.

How many times do I have to say it? Especially since the only person that keeps mentioning ETHNICITY (get your fucking labels right dumbass) on this board is YOU. Or am I wrong when you have Obama with Ludacris on his Ipod when he releases songs that talk about completely destroying the U.S. and I quote "...paint the Whitehouse black."

So who is the real joke here? You and your half assed attempts at insult, come back when you have fact and organization.

[DL88]

So Vic Lets be nice and leave it at this okay? I'll be see'ing you tommorrow morning!

In the truest meaning:

Peace and Goodnight Vic

[PampersPete]

Um you do realize that the "top 1%" of this country pay over 40% of the taxes right? They don't get out of anything lol

You really are wet behind the ears,aren't you?

[PampersPete]

[DL88]

pete seriously this is the last time I will ever speak directly to you because you are a moron. Find a real source, msnbc is so saturated by liberal bias they do not even try to hide it anymore and that is why it is watched by almost nobody except loonytoons like yourself.

I'll say it again, find a real source, you still havn't said anything that can hold any ground. Every single comment you have ever made has been some conspiracy brought out by the lowest forms of human life and are just not factual. The part that I am talking about especially that everyone can see is you take these weird thoughts, present them as fact, and try to show one of the most left groups rantings as proof.

Also, if I am so "wet behind the ears" then why did you wait around so long last night JUST to get "last licks?" If what you said had any continuity at all you shouldn't have to be standing around every minute to see what people say.

Don't bother answering me back pete, I am not paying attention to you anymore, nor is anybody else, just fade into an obscure corner until you can have some semi-relevant conversation.

kthxbai

[PampersPete]

[belinda_sue_fox]

pete seriously this is the last time I will ever speak directly to you because you are a moron. Find a real source, msnbc is so saturated by liberal bias they do not even try to hide it anymore and that is why it is watched by almost nobody except loonytoons like yourself.

I'll say it again, find a real source, you still havn't said anything that can hold any ground. Every single comment you have ever made has been some conspiracy brought out by the lowest forms of human life and are just not factual. The part that I am talking about especially that everyone can see is you take these weird thoughts, present them as fact, and try to show one of the most left groups rantings as proof.

Also, if I am so "wet behind the ears" then why did you wait around so long last night JUST to get "last licks?" If what you said had any continuity at all you shouldn't have to be standing around every minute to see what people say.

Don't bother answering me back pete, I am not paying attention to you anymore, nor is anybody else, just fade into an obscure corner until you can have some semi-relevant conversation.

kthxbai

You can't expect any sense from a racist bigott. All their "facts" are found to affirm their beliefs.

[FretaBWet]

Redneck, I was not surprised by your post, it was just more of the same. I am guessing you didn't look at the graph on the national debt since you didn't waste any words trying to refute it and didn't have one reputable site to link to that disputes it. I notice you didn't argue with my assertion that the greatest danger we face is from within since your reply seemed to rant about how Barak would increase the debt not how it wasn't a threat to us. You don't bring any rational arguments to this discussion, you just throw out wild accusations like they are completely true. My point here is that a person can't have a rational discussion with an irrational person. It doesn't work because even faced with the truth and proof to back it up you still don't admit it, you go on the attack. Let's try something different shall we. Don't tell me one word about Barak, I already know exactly how you feel about him. Explain to me how McCain's policies ie: his extension of Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy, his continuation of the war in Iraq etc. is not going to damage our country by increasing the national debt. I'm also curious to know how someone on the far right can be so comfortable with Bush's rape of our civil rights. Domestic wiretapping on U.S. citizens without a warrant or any court approval, U.S. citizens in a jail for years without a trial or even legal council. The latest is Bush signing an order allowing our troops to attack people in Pakistan with out permission from Pakistan. Inquiring minds want to know.

Hugs,

Freta

[babyvr6]

ALL THE NEEDS TO BE SAID<----- clicky linky thingy! Seriously watch this movie. All of it. Then we'll talk. And I'm not starting an arguement or adding to another. I'm just throwing information to the wolves. I will have my popcorn ready though when you all take this as a threat and in return try to attack me and my "sources". Enjoy.

Alerek