School definitely needs to start handing out diapers

[willnotwill]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/parents-outraged-after-school-builds-32417888?ICID=ref_fark

[Apache Raccoon]

3 hours ago, willnotwill said:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/parents-outraged-after-school-builds-32417888?ICID=ref_fark

That sounds crazy!

But it does sound like the good basis to write an "ABDL" story around

 

[DailyDi]

People go too far these days. 

[ValentinesStuff]

1 hour ago, DailyDi said:

People go too far these days. 

They certainly do. Can you imagine the gall of not scheduling your potty needs during regular class breaks? Some people.

[Little BabyDoll Christine]

I get the "why". By age 8, you should be able to hold it for a full period if nothing is wrong. Also, kids can find a way to use such a break for making trouble and it is a good idea to learn to hold it. However there may be times when you just gotta go and most kids, at least when I was in grade school, did not abuse the practice but schools are now required to accept some pretty crazy disruptive kids. Also, maybe if parents did their job this would not be happening. Even in high school I had to VERY occasionally hit the head during a class. There are two sides to every story unless you are dealing with a self-absorbed rotter. Then too, back in '62, we did not have drug deals going down in the john, let alone in middle school. Smoking in the boys' room meant Windstons, Marlboro or Pall Mall; not blunts

[willnotwill]

10 hours ago, Apache Raccoon said:

That sounds crazy!

But it does sound like the good basis to write an "ABDL" story around

 

I've got a few stories about schools switching to diapers kicking around over the years.   But I could start another.

[grau]

That is pathologically insane. 

[willnotwill]

OK, here's the beginning of a story:

 

[spark]

14 hours ago, Little BabyDoll Christine said:

I get the "why". By age 8, you should be able to hold it for a full period if nothing is wrong. Also, kids can find a way to use such a break for making trouble and it is a good idea to learn to hold it. However there may be times when you just gotta go and most kids, at least when I was in grade school, did not abuse the practice but schools are now required to accept some pretty crazy disruptive kids. Also, maybe if parents did their job this would not be happening. Even in high school I had to VERY occasionally hit the head during a class. There are two sides to every story unless you are dealing with a self-absorbed rotter. Then too, back in '62, we did not have drug deals going down in the john, let alone in middle school. Smoking in the boys' room meant Windstons, Marlboro or Pall Mall; not blunts

Here is the problem with that attitude:  there are a lot of kids in a high school.  The high school I teach at has almost 3000 students, and kids don't have enough time to use the bathroom during passing period.  Especially if there are a lot of students trying to use the bathroom at the same.  Ok, some kids abuse the privilege, but I'll let you in on a little secret.  I frequently head to bathroom when we have a professional development, and it's not always that I need to use the bathroom.  I do it because I need to get up and stretch, and need a short break from the boring stupid stuff that they are trying to teach me.  I'm an adult and professional learner, so I shouldn't expect my students to do better me.

FTR, students are no worse today than they were when I was in high school.   They less self-reliant, which is because we don't foster independence in our students anymore, but kids did bad stuff in the bathrooms when I was kid and they still do.

[MegaChar]

Teachers complain of older children not being potty trained, can you really blame children when the school resorts to this?

[~Brian~]

22 hours ago, spark said:

Here is the problem with that attitude:  there are a lot of kids in a high school.  The high school I teach at has almost 3000 students, and kids don't have enough time to use the bathroom during passing period.  Especially if there are a lot of students trying to use the bathroom at the same.  Ok, some kids abuse the privilege, but I'll let you in on a little secret.  I frequently head to bathroom when we have a professional development, and it's not always that I need to use the bathroom.  I do it because I need to get up and stretch, and need a short break from the boring stupid stuff that they are trying to teach me.  I'm an adult and professional learner, so I shouldn't expect my students to do better me.

FTR, students are no worse today than they were when I was in high school.   They less self-reliant, which is because we don't foster independence in our students anymore, but kids did bad stuff in the bathrooms when I was kid and they still do.

I Second what @spark says!  I am disabled, and through school, I had an IEP that basically laid out things that I was supposed to do, and it also laid out what the school was to do to help me succeed.  They would always have us use "passes" to go places, and that also means when you use the bathroom.  They would INSIST that the pass be returned by the person who used the pass last, and we used to get in trouble if we went without that stupid bathroom pass.

I also agree that students are usually on the run from about 5AM in the morning until maybe 10PM at night.  Throughout the day, they have to get ready for school, and try to eat something, and then go through 7 HOURS or more of school, then do work or practice, then homework, and then it repeats.  You basically are busy from early morning to late night, and that is a challenge in and of itself.  Most students that attend school want to follow the rules, and they want to be able to do the things that their peers do, like their peers do it, but sometimes that is not possible: because of the limitations they face, and even with those limitations, I try to do what i CAN do, and NOT worry about what I CAN'T do:  The problem I had in school was that I was WAY behind because of having to understand things that the same pace as my peers, and most times I was trying to make my mark on the wall, but some fool would ERASE the mark, and that made me have to redo and relearn everything at least twice.  It is hard work to get through the school day, but even harder when you have to do things over and over, or when you just don't get it, and you lose your cool:  I've done it myself, and I can tell you it is awful to have that happen, and have people laugh because you don't understand, or THEY don't understand why you don't understand.  That's what makes school harder for those who have challenges:  but, you learn ways to cope, and I am very fortunate to have friends that helped me, and I am grateful for that

As @sparksays, there is not enough time between classes to be able to even GET to the next class, let alone the time to be able to use the bathroom.  I figure if a kid is not responsible enough to be able to move about the building and USE the facilities or be TRUSTED that he will be where he is supposed to be when he is IN the building, than he should have to deal with the consequences of those misdeeds.  This should NOT take rights away from students to use the restrooms or any other place in the school.  Appropriate sanctions can be fashioned so that you are NOT taking rights away - Everyone needs the bathroom.  and as spark says, he will go to the restroom for a breather, and  it does NOT matter whether you are Students, Staff, or Faculty:  They all need the bathroom!

What they should not do is to control when a kid can use the bathroom.  Schools that would do things like putting up locking gates, or anything placed there to stop the use of that bathroom are, in my mind, VIOLATING the Law!  You cannot deny children (or adults) the right to the bathroom, and you cannot ignore when someone needs the bathroom when you are teaching:  The ADA protects the disabled, and I am quite sure that in America, NO ONE can do this to a student.  Also, being a former IEP student, I know that you basically can add/change/delete things to your IEP after a meeting with those on your team, and your parents and teachers. 

I am not sure what other countries laws and rules and regulations say, but I would LOVE to take these rule making people, and MAKE THEM have to do a whole day without using the bathroom once.  I'd go one better to have them use a wheelchair like I do, and live a month in it, and use the bathroom with aides and help, and/or use diapers during that month:  IF these rule makers could NOT use the bathroom at times it may be needed, and they were inconvenienced because they had to use the bathroom and couldn't and used a diaper instead, they'd understand that you CANNOT deny that we have to use the bathroom.  I taught that lesson to a couple friends when I had to be in a wheelchair, and they were saying how "cool it was to be able to ride in a chair, and all this....."  I reminded them that I have friends that have to use chairs, and they need assistance in bathing/toileting/dressing,etc.  When I said that they wore diapers, they QUICKLY change their tune, and they then understood that others have challenges too.

My Point:  when you are disabled, and have mobility challenges, you have to do things with your classmate and friends:  When you have to worry about a stupid PASS to return BEFORE you can use the bathroom, it adds an UNNECESSARY step to the process.  It became a problem when I had to RUN to the bathroom many times WITHOUT the pass, and then would get PUNISHED for doing it, because I was expected to HOLD it, and that was a problem a few times:  I wet myself a couple times in school BECAUSE of these insane rules, and the school was MAD, but I TOLD them that "When I SAY I have to GO, I MEAN I have to GO!"  I had to get my case manager, my teachers and support staff to listen to me and my MOM who said EXACTLY what I said, and I actually had to have it WRITTEN into my IEP that I could go to the bathroom when I NEEDED to go, without fear of punishment, without the pass, and without question. 

I already understood that I had a responsibility to myself, and I was NOT gonna deal with a bunch of foolish idiots that thought I was lying or trying to get away with something.  With the help of the IEP Team, they "educated" my teachers that a pass is NOT always required, and that sometimes, rules like this can and should be modified or not enforced.  Me wetting OR messing myself in school is and was embarrassing, and it takes time away from me being able to get stuff done, and so, I am glad that when I was RIGHT, I pushed it, so that I had what I need. 

The idea here is NOT really to start issuing diapers to those who don't need them BUT for this ridiculous rule that makes bathroom usage and availability at the discretion and whim of the administration.  I say that this is WRONG and is a violation of rights!  Who the hell make rules like this?

Kids do what kids do:  They will do things that are illegal or things that peers push them to do, they will do things that are good, they may do things that are wrong, but if they have an appropriate role model, they usually do OK.  You also have to use your HEAD:  If you know what is RIGHT and what is WRONG, you do your best to stay clear of those issues, and you always TRY to help others steer clear of them as well.  I'm not saying that all kids are troublemakers, but the vast majority of them are good kids, do their best in school, and they follow the rules, and are role models for others to look up to.  I had a few friends that I looked up to, and i still do that today - we all have challenges and I have had mine too, and I have helped many as worked through them, but I always knew that my friends always had my back

Brian

[spark]

3 hours ago, ~Brian~ said:

I Second what @spark says!  I am disabled, and through school, I had an IEP that basically laid out things that I was supposed to do, and it also laid out what the school was to do to help me succeed.  They would always have us use "passes" to go places, and that also means when you use the bathroom.  They would INSIST that the pass be returned by the person who used the pass last, and we used to get in trouble if we went without that stupid bathroom pass.

I also agree that students are usually on the run from about 5AM in the morning until maybe 10PM at night.  Throughout the day, they have to get ready for school, and try to eat something, and then go through 7 HOURS or more of school, then do work or practice, then homework, and then it repeats.  You basically are busy from early morning to late night, and that is a challenge in and of itself.  Most students that attend school want to follow the rules, and they want to be able to do the things that their peers do, like their peers do it, but sometimes that is not possible: because of the limitations they face, and even with those limitations, I try to do what i CAN do, and NOT worry about what I CAN'T do:  The problem I had in school was that I was WAY behind because of having to understand things that the same pace as my peers, and most times I was trying to make my mark on the wall, but some fool would ERASE the mark, and that made me have to redo and relearn everything at least twice.  It is hard work to get through the school day, but even harder when you have to do things over and over, or when you just don't get it, and you lose your cool:  I've done it myself, and I can tell you it is awful to have that happen, and have people laugh because you don't understand, or THEY don't understand why you don't understand.  That's what makes school harder for those who have challenges:  but, you learn ways to cope, and I am very fortunate to have friends that helped me, and I am grateful for that

As @sparksays, there is not enough time between classes to be able to even GET to the next class, let alone the time to be able to use the bathroom.  I figure if a kid is not responsible enough to be able to move about the building and USE the facilities or be TRUSTED that he will be where he is supposed to be when he is IN the building, than he should have to deal with the consequences of those misdeeds.  This should NOT take rights away from students to use the restrooms or any other place in the school.  Appropriate sanctions can be fashioned so that you are NOT taking rights away - Everyone needs the bathroom.  and as spark says, he will go to the restroom for a breather, and  it does NOT matter whether you are Students, Staff, or Faculty:  They all need the bathroom!

What they should not do is to control when a kid can use the bathroom.  Schools that would do things like putting up locking gates, or anything placed there to stop the use of that bathroom are, in my mind, VIOLATING the Law!  You cannot deny children (or adults) the right to the bathroom, and you cannot ignore when someone needs the bathroom when you are teaching:  The ADA protects the disabled, and I am quite sure that in America, NO ONE can do this to a student.  Also, being a former IEP student, I know that you basically can add/change/delete things to your IEP after a meeting with those on your team, and your parents and teachers. 

I am not sure what other countries laws and rules and regulations say, but I would LOVE to take these rule making people, and MAKE THEM have to do a whole day without using the bathroom once.  I'd go one better to have them use a wheelchair like I do, and live a month in it, and use the bathroom with aides and help, and/or use diapers during that month:  IF these rule makers could NOT use the bathroom at times it may be needed, and they were inconvenienced because they had to use the bathroom and couldn't and used a diaper instead, they'd understand that you CANNOT deny that we have to use the bathroom.  I taught that lesson to a couple friends when I had to be in a wheelchair, and they were saying how "cool it was to be able to ride in a chair, and all this....."  I reminded them that I have friends that have to use chairs, and they need assistance in bathing/toileting/dressing,etc.  When I said that they wore diapers, they QUICKLY change their tune, and they then understood that others have challenges too.

My Point:  when you are disabled, and have mobility challenges, you have to do things with your classmate and friends:  When you have to worry about a stupid PASS to return BEFORE you can use the bathroom, it adds an UNNECESSARY step to the process.  It became a problem when I had to RUN to the bathroom many times WITHOUT the pass, and then would get PUNISHED for doing it, because I was expected to HOLD it, and that was a problem a few times:  I wet myself a couple times in school BECAUSE of these insane rules, and the school was MAD, but I TOLD them that "When I SAY I have to GO, I MEAN I have to GO!"  I had to get my case manager, my teachers and support staff to listen to me and my MOM who said EXACTLY what I said, and I actually had to have it WRITTEN into my IEP that I could go to the bathroom when I NEEDED to go, without fear of punishment, without the pass, and without question. 

I already understood that I had a responsibility to myself, and I was NOT gonna deal with a bunch of foolish idiots that thought I was lying or trying to get away with something.  With the help of the IEP Team, they "educated" my teachers that a pass is NOT always required, and that sometimes, rules like this can and should be modified or not enforced.  Me wetting OR messing myself in school is and was embarrassing, and it takes time away from me being able to get stuff done, and so, I am glad that when I was RIGHT, I pushed it, so that I had what I need. 

The idea here is NOT really to start issuing diapers to those who don't need them BUT for this ridiculous rule that makes bathroom usage and availability at the discretion and whim of the administration.  I say that this is WRONG and is a violation of rights!  Who the hell make rules like this?

Kids do what kids do:  They will do things that are illegal or things that peers push them to do, they will do things that are good, they may do things that are wrong, but if they have an appropriate role model, they usually do OK.  You also have to use your HEAD:  If you know what is RIGHT and what is WRONG, you do your best to stay clear of those issues, and you always TRY to help others steer clear of them as well.  I'm not saying that all kids are troublemakers, but the vast majority of them are good kids, do their best in school, and they follow the rules, and are role models for others to look up to.  I had a few friends that I looked up to, and i still do that today - we all have challenges and I have had mine too, and I have helped many work through them, but I always knew that my friends always had my back

Brian

I have a few students who have bathroom privileges written into their IEP, and for the most part it not a problem.  The good ones will usually tell me why they took a long time, and some of them just need a break.

We're not supposed to let more than one kid out at a time.   My classes are so small that it shouldn't be a problem, but it does happen.   I once had a girl ask me to use the bathroom, but I told her wait because one kid already out.  The kid who was away got lost coming back to my class and was out for at 15 minutes (it's a big campus).   In case you wondering, getting lost is a euphemism  I use when a student goes galivanting around the campus.  To be honest, that kid being out of the classroom was perfectly fine with me because I didn't have to deal with him for those 15 minutes.  My inner clock told me to let the girl go to the bathroom, and she went, came back, and asked me if she could wait in my room for the first part of lunch because her mom was going to pick her up. I didn't ask what happened because it's none of my business, but whatever it was- I don't want it to happen on my watch.

It didn't happen in my class, but one of my SPED colleagues (SPED have the best stories) had a student away for 40 minutes.  He came back with Chipotle and then got upset because he wasn't allowed to eat in class.  FTR- I don't know how he made it to Chipotle, got his food, and made it back to class by the end of the period.   If you could do that, why did he choose Chipotle?

Here is the thing: there are natural consequence for missing 1/2 of a class, and if you constantly do stuff like that and still do well in class, we're wasting their time.   I get the idea that some kids don't care about the consequences, but if they don't care about the consequences, they don't care about school.    I can't make them care about school.   I can help them care, but not if the environment is so toxic that it looks like a prison.  Sadly, some of those kids will get that eventually, but that doesn't mean we have to do it for everybody.