Discovering bladder isn't a "Switch" but can get a mind of its own

[dlmolicares]

Hello, Everyone-

I have been a DL for many, many years- often trying to find a way to have daytime "lose control accidents" However, losing control during the daytime has always been a challenge (even though I untrained night control) Part of the challenge may have been that I've been thinking of my bladder "like a switch" Meaning, if I push just the right button I'll lose control and have an accident. Things such as massage gun bladder focus, manual tapping, and even electronic stimulation for an immediate result. The results were limited.

Recently, I found that leaning forward in a chair puts some pressure on the bladder. Exhaling makes it more. Doing this while focused on the sensations will let you ID what breath and what position is stressing the bladder more. Interesting thing is, accidents aren't immediate. After a bit of time (30 seconds to a minute, depending on how full) the bladder begins to react. That reaction can often be an accident. And, the bladder continues to react for a minute or so, even if you stand and walk around afterwards.

All of this to say, for me it's not a "switch" but this slower, awareness approach seems to be working.

What tricks work for all of you?

 

General background: DL 15+ years, Self-trained bedwetter (3-4 nights a week, random), wear 24/7 but not looking for 100% urinary incon (looking for periods of time with accidents)

[Enthusi]

I could write an essay on this topic. Im having a hard time narrowing down my tips.  

Here are 2 of my favorites off the top of my head. I may go back later and add more.

 

1.  Incontinence is a symptom with many causes and various degrees of severity.   There is no certificate of accomplishment at the end.  Don’t get caught up on the semantics, nor think that because you can control your bladder some of the time that you aren’t incontinent. 
 

2. If you’re serious about permanently (or at least long term) losing bladder control, you need to start seeing yourself as incontinent. You need to accept and internalize the fact that you are not fully in control of your bladder anymore, and aren’t capable of stopping leaks from happening.  Hypnosis and self talk have helped me tremendously in this regard.  Having it diagnosed in my medical chart was the icing on the cake. 
 

Enjoy the journey!   
PS @dlmolicares thanks for the interesting read! ❤️

[DiapergirlWB]

I have gotten really really got at never holding or pushing, just completely never exercising any control when diapered.  I mentally remove myself from the process.  After many many years of this approach it take about 3-4 days to get into feeling more natural to just wet than to hold it.  After about a week I start to lose track of how many times I've wet.  I'm still very much continent but the habit of wetting comes to the forefront.  It usually takes a day or two before I can be confident enough not to have small accidents and not weasr at least a pull up.

[BabyBoi91]

Yeah, I would say it sounds like you’re still kind focused on the idea of “control.” You even describe how you can lean forward and put pressure to open the bladder. Have you ever considered your bladder is capable of opening on its own? And that it could do so before you realize you need to go? 
 

I think many times we think of it like a bursting balloon — I have to overwhelm the muscles in order for the “dam to burst.” 
 

but what if the bladder sphincter  just didn’t care? What if it was like the bored traffic cop just watching cars go through an intersection ? What if it didn’t even care about speed? What if it just let the pee do what it wanted because after all, why would you ever need to hold it? 
 

these are ideas and questions I’m asking myself and thought others may find helpful. But I do wonder if there’s another way to allow this to happen… ?

[Enthusi]

7 hours ago, BabyBoi91 said:

What if it was like the bored traffic cop just watching cars go through an intersection ?

Omg that’s precisely it!  I’m stealing that!

[DLJeff52]

This is a fantastic topic to add...thanks for doing so @dlmolicares! I can also see @Enthusi wanting to publish a book on the subject and am always very glad to see his reports and responses.  Here's my one an a half cents:

1.  I think most people dramatically under-estimate the importance of mental acceptance.  After 7 months of untraining, I "see" myself as incontinent.  Whether physiologically anyone agrees with what incontinence ultimately is, I see myself that way.  Everything and I mean everything else is infinitely easier with that internal acceptance.  There is no race to an end, no specific physiological goal that I'm trying to attain, because I see myself the way I want to be and act accordingly.  The rest is the body catching up with my reality.

2.  I rather prefer the physical "surprises" along the way as opposed to being able to control everything to an outcome.  It is actually encouraging to me when I have a small leak without any mental or physical effort on my part and can sit and revel (too strong?) at the fact that my body just did something completely on its own without asking my mind or muscles for help.  This to me accelerates my desire to continue and just reinforces the mental aspect.

3.  I do think the first couple months I was thinking more about how to affect the physical changes, but now, I'm content to let those unfold in whatever timing it occurs.  This is great because now I don't worry about when or if a physical goal is reached, but am more free to just enjoy the process as it unfolds.

 

[Hannah YMS]

16 hours ago, DLJeff52 said:

This is a fantastic topic to add...thanks for doing so @dlmolicares! I can also see @Enthusi wanting to publish a book on the subject and am always very glad to see his reports and responses.  Here's my one an a half cents:

1.  I think most people dramatically under-estimate the importance of mental acceptance.  After 7 months of untraining, I "see" myself as incontinent.  Whether physiologically anyone agrees with what incontinence ultimately is, I see myself that way.  Everything and I mean everything else is infinitely easier with that internal acceptance.  There is no race to an end, no specific physiological goal that I'm trying to attain, because I see myself the way I want to be and act accordingly.  The rest is the body catching up with my reality.

2.  I rather prefer the physical "surprises" along the way as opposed to being able to control everything to an outcome.  It is actually encouraging to me when I have a small leak without any mental or physical effort on my part and can sit and revel (too strong?) at the fact that my body just did something completely on its own without asking my mind or muscles for help.  This to me accelerates my desire to continue and just reinforces the mental aspect.

3.  I do think the first couple months I was thinking more about how to affect the physical changes, but now, I'm content to let those unfold in whatever timing it occurs.  This is great because now I don't worry about when or if a physical goal is reached, but am more free to just enjoy the process as it unfolds.

 

I'm pretty much with you there, @DLJeff52, but I'm still trying to improve #1. I am quite a literal person and it's hard for me to see myself as incontinent. Because if I don't have legit accidents, that mental block is there and is hard to uproot.

[DLJeff52]

6 hours ago, jonbearab said:

I'm pretty much with you there, @DLJeff52, but I'm still trying to improve #1. I am quite a literal person and it's hard for me to see myself as incontinent. Because if I don't have legit accidents, that mental block is there and is hard to uproot.

That makes sense to me.  I guess for me it is more an emotional decision, which explains the different bridge I probably had to cross to get to my mental peace.  I've always heard that for something to be fully learned you need to (a) have an emotional attachment to it, (b) you need to mentally understand it, and (c) you need to practice it in some manner.  I usually enter this triangle on (a) and have been living in (c) for 7 months.  I'm not sure if it was hypnosis, or (a)+(c) or a doctor noting my chart with incontinence that pushed me to embrace (b), but I can appreciate it is a different journey for each of us.  Let me know if processing any can help!

[Hannah YMS]

On 6/14/2022 at 5:47 AM, DLJeff52 said:

That makes sense to me.  I guess for me it is more an emotional decision, which explains the different bridge I probably had to cross to get to my mental peace.  I've always heard that for something to be fully learned you need to (a) have an emotional attachment to it, (b) you need to mentally understand it, and (c) you need to practice it in some manner.  I usually enter this triangle on (a) and have been living in (c) for 7 months.  I'm not sure if it was hypnosis, or (a)+(c) or a doctor noting my chart with incontinence that pushed me to embrace (b), but I can appreciate it is a different journey for each of us.  Let me know if processing any can help!

Maybe I'm getting stuck because I'm not sure how well I understand it. In this case, are you talking about the need to be incontinent or the journey itself? Either way, I understand my need to be incontinent more than I understand the journey, which isn't very much anyway. I've been 24/7 for almost 2 years now and trying to untrain, but I feel like I'm not making one iota of progress, with the exception of being more comfortably peeing while laying in bed either on my stomach or my back.

[DLJeff52]

10 hours ago, jonbearab said:

Maybe I'm getting stuck because I'm not sure how well I understand it. In this case, are you talking about the need to be incontinent or the journey itself? Either way, I understand my need to be incontinent more than I understand the journey, which isn't very much anyway. I've been 24/7 for almost 2 years now and trying to untrain, but I feel like I'm not making one iota of progress, with the exception of being more comfortably peeing while laying in bed either on my stomach or my back.

@jonbearab Thanks so much for the comments.  After I read my own gibberish I can see it wasn't as clearly written as it is in my head.  I guess, what has changed for me is that I accept that I am going to wear diapers and think in ways that make peace with the I "need/want" to wear diapers regardless of the pace at which my practicing and emotional desire to change occurs.  Somehow, this has had the positive effect of increasing my "peace" as I'm not holding expectations of what happens physically and I'm also noticing that physical change is now happening more quickly.  I guess to say it differently, when I started, I knew in my heart I wanted this and began putting things into practice, but the mental part allowed me to accept seeing myself as needing/wanting diapers regardless of how fast things change.  That's made the journey more "freeing" to be whatever it is.  Hope that helps!  Love the dialog!

[BabyBoi91]

On 6/13/2022 at 5:28 AM, DLJeff52 said:

1.  I think most people dramatically under-estimate the importance of mental acceptance.  After 7 months of untraining, I "see" myself as incontinent.  Whether physiologically anyone agrees with what incontinence ultimately is, I see myself that way.  Everything and I mean everything else is infinitely easier with that internal acceptance.  There is no race to an end, no specific physiological goal that I'm trying to attain, because I see myself the way I want to be and act accordingly.  The rest is the body catching up with my reality.

2.  I rather prefer the physical "surprises" along the way as opposed to being able to control everything to an outcome.  It is actually encouraging to me when I have a small leak without any mental or physical effort on my part and can sit and revel (too strong?) at the fact that my body just did something completely on its own without asking my mind or muscles for help.  This to me accelerates my desire to continue and just reinforces the mental aspect.

3.  I do think the first couple months I was thinking more about how to affect the physical changes, but now, I'm content to let those unfold in whatever timing it occurs.  This is great because now I don't worry about when or if a physical goal is reached, but am more free to just enjoy the process as it unfolds.

I think your 3 points really nailed it, and also think part of it may have to do with where a person is mentally / physically in their untraining.  Mental habits and physical habits take practice—it’s why we tend to call it un-“training.”
 

early on in my journey, I was very focused on control— what I doing vs not doing. 
 

at a certain point, I realized maybe I should just focus more on muscle relaxation (and make an effort to keep things relaxed as much as possible), and they had a breakthrough when I realized I also should not stress if I ever noticed things weren’t relaxed for anything reason.  
 

After a while, relaxation stopped taking focus. It became default the vast majority of the time. 
 

And you’re right! Once I gained insight into “personal acceptance,” it took everything to a new level. i started questioning a lot of how I had approached training to date (although a lot of that muscle relaxation probably helped…). I started to see myself in a much more passive role. Why do I have to “do” anything? Why can’t I just accept what happens? Why does X have to happen the way I want or plan? Does Y have to look this way? What if my body wants Y to happen a different way? 
 

basically accepting incontinence meant I was a passive participant, or at most a facilitator (after all, wearing diapers is how I manage it; making sure I stay hydrated / get enough fiber is just healthy and prevents other issues); but the incontinence happens whether I want it or not. and yes, there are consequences of that. But trying to constantly “control” how it works becomes a fool’s errand.