Journey To Diaper Dependency

[DLJeff52]

Weeks 9-10 Update

Hi All! Today marks my 74th consecutive day of 24/7 and I'm on track to my short-term goal of 100 days to keep things bite sized as I progress!

Notable Observations

• Nighttime
  • I've read more and more about people having a yo-yo or sine curve effect with the nighttime peeing.  I would say I can vouch for that!  As I review my charting for the past two weeks, 5 of the nights my first wetting of the night I marked as "while sleeping" or "unaware" that it had happened.  But when I try to repeat or mimic whatever I did the evening when that happened, I would find that the next night I would wake up just before each wetting.  I have had 2 nights as well where I woke up as I began wetting and was back asleep very quickly.  It is encouraging to hear that this yo-yo effect is common because otherwise I'd spend hours wondering why it was happening and what to do about it!  Steady as she goes, I guess!
  • I have started wearing plastic Terry-lined pants at night over my diaper.  This is the only thing that I can say that may be helping with the night wetting as I have even greater confidence that I on't leak at night.  I have the pad underneath and great diapers, but I still think my psyche is worried about having an already wet diaper and going the second, third or fourth time.  Hoping this will help, but again, holding everything loosely as I know there is no magic wand here!
  • Today my first Megamax will arrive and I will see how that goes for the nighttime.  I don't have any complaints with the Better Dry, but wanted to compare for myself what many have said is the best overnight.  Will let you know next update my comparison between the two!
  • I have attended several work or friend gatherings on weekend nights and see a direct correlation between alcohol and lower chance of wetting during sleep!  The alcohol seems to have the effect of making me wake up and even then having to work harder to relax to pee at night.  Staying away from it as much as possible!
  • I have a playlist of subliminals that I now fall asleep to every night.  Just calming and if it works great, but I can't say that there is any direct connection I can make to what is happening and my listening...then again, I guess that's part of the way subliminals should work!  
• Daytime
  • No real change as I continue to use both Abena M3s and Better Dry Day.  I use a onesie whenever I need to go out and get coverage and prevent sag, and that has been uneventful.  I even changed a couple times on an airplane.  Here is something I did learn, however, that may be helpful to others.  If you have to change on an airplane, the garbage under the sinks has a very small hole in which to discard your diaper.  If you have to use that, it can be best if you DO NOT roll up the diaper, but rather leave it lengthwise as it may be easier to fit.  Alternatively, if you pull on the plastic part where the garbage is located, it will open up and reveal the incredibly narrow garbage can that you can then just place your diaper in.  Best to change early in a flight before the can fills up.  Also, if you can get away with using the first class bathroom, there is less likelihood that the garbage can will be full mid-flight!
  • I am now peeing consistently about 6 ml each time I need to pee, this is down from the 10-12 ml when I started, indicating my bladder is shrinking in capacity. 
  • I notice that once I begin peeing, there is much much less desire/ability to stop it from finishing.  I have succeeded in not clenching the sphincter and this has resulted in several accidents:  twice wetting pants when I was in between changes and trying to just let things breathe, once in a car which created a difficult mess to clean, and once after cleaning up from a #2 when I didn't get a diaper on fast enough.  As annoying as cleaning up is, I am more proud of letting things happen without exercising my sphincter.
  • I am using on average 4 diapers a day.  Sometimes 5 if I need to change before heading out to run an errand before my current diaper was at capacity. 
  • I am applying butt cream after every change now as I notice skin irritation (mostly itching) around my genitals and the cream needs to be consistently applied to keep that under control.
  • I now do #2 without tightening my sphincter.  This means I have gone in my diaper more than half the time as I either don't want or can't get to a bathroom in time.  Yes, cleaning up the mess isn't exactly thrilling, but I have it down to a science now and it is manageable.  I do keep "those" diapers out separately outside until garbage day to make sure no one is affected by the smell.  I will confess it feels good to just let #2 happen and I'm going from tolerating to enjoying it for whatever that is worth.
  •  
• Mentally
  • I am increasingly identifying myself as incontinent.  I don't want to have the argument on hear as to if I am or am not. I don't care if anyone else thinks I am or am not.  I am just reporting that in thinking that way, it has made life very doable as I pursue the goal of diaper dependent.  I am certain I could control my pee if I wanted, but I'm also quite confident that I won't let myself do that, as evidenced by the wetting and other accidents I've "let" myself experience.  I definitely feel like my bladder is weaker and this helps reinforce mentally what I'm trying to do.
  • I find that the diaper is an incredible mental comforter.  It helps to relax and each morning I feel amazing in my full wet diaper.  I suppose that's what makes us the niche of niche in that to most people that would sound beyond absurd, but it is one of my favorite parts of the day and puts me in the right mindset to start the day.
• Exercising
  • I have started running 4-5 times a week and that is helping with sleep and my mental health as well.  
  • I have opted to NOT wear diapers when I run, but to just wet my pants if I need to.  This has happened 6/9 times I've run in the past two weeks.  I wear compression pants which brings the trickle down my legs, but I just slip off my sneaker to keep it from getting soaked and stretch as it happens.  So far no one has noticed and while it isn't ideal, it prevents the chafing a diaper may cause.
  • If anyone has figured out different ways to handle this, I'm open to suggestions!!
• Tracking.  There doesn't seem to be an ideal way for me to visually show the google sheets I am using to track my journey, but here is a summary of the statistics from that:
  • Number of days 24/7 = 74  The percentages that follow are based on that 74 day time period.
  • Days where I drank more than 2 liters of water:  84%
  • Days where I drank 2+ cups of coffee in morning:  100%
  • Average number of diapers used (over 24 hour period):  5.04
  • Nights where first wetting was during sleep:  32.4%
  • Nights where I was unsure in the morning if I was awake for first wetting:  13.5%
  • Longest streak of nights where one wetting was asleep:  2
  • Days where I went #2 in diaper:  46%
  • Days where I listen to hypnosis / subliminals for at least 30 minutes: 67.6%
  • Days where I wet my pants at least once:  24.7%
  • Days where I had a "leak" during the night: 24.7% (Most of these were early before I started using BD
• Goals for next two weeks
  • Continue running / working out.  I'd like to lose 3-5 pounds over the next two weeks
  • No sweets at all and and no food after 8pm
  • #2 in diapers every day is a goal.  I think this will reinforce sphincter relaxation.
  • Post my first ABDL story (I've been working on it for months)
  • Determine if I am going to use Better Dry or Mega Max for nighttime
  • Stay positive!  Embrace each day!

Again, thank you for those who have reached out to support and encourage me!  Let me know if there is a way I can do the same!

 

[DLJeff52]

Weeks 11-12

Friday the 18th will mark my 90th consecutive day of wearing 24/7.  It has been an amazing three months!  On the one hand it feels like it has flown by, and in other regards it feels like an eternity!  Here's some of the changes and "progress" that I've made over the last two weeks.

Product Decision.  

1.  I am definitely going all in on Better Dry.  I have tried the MegaMax for the last two weeks straight so I could say I gave them a fair run.  I have not noticed anything materially better in their performance (especially in the way of side leakage from sleeping) that would make me want to commit to MegaMax.  Their diapers price out significantly higher than the Better Dry ($2.20 vs. $1.45) without performing at a level that would justify the cost in my book.  I know there are many many MegaMax fans on this forum, so please don't take this as a personal indictment on your choice, just sharing how I made mine! 

2.  I am a HUGE fan of the BabyKins Terry-cloth lined plastic pants.  While bulkier, since wearing them I have had no leaks and have even debated doing away with the rubber pad on my bed.  I feel very "safe" with these over my Better Dry and have slept even deeper the last two weeks.  I've ordered another pair and couldn't be happier.  Sizing is true to what is advertised, and if you are debating between sizes, I would err on the higher side as they will shrink in the dryer as pointed out by Babykins.

3.  I'm using both the Abena M4 and the Better Dry Day diapers for daywear.  The Better Dry is more absorbent, but the Abena is quieter for when I need to be in meetings or at work.  As a note, I've received emails indicating Abena will be raising its prices 5-10%, so that may lead me to use the Better Dry with a little more frequency than normal.  I do use a onesie over both which helps.  I have landed on the REARZ brand for those as they are sized correctly and have not really shrunk in the wash.  No complaints.

4.  No, I do not get anything financially from anyone for my product recommendations.

Retraining.

1.  I am noticing my nighttime wetting is increasing in frequency where I experience at least one wetting a night without awareness or waking.  9/14 days during the past two weeks I woke up with a wet diaper and then had my "second" wetting of the night.  So I'm basically getting better at not waking up for the first wetting.  3/14 days, I also was awakened WHILE wetting my second wetting of the night.  It had started and I woke up as it was happening and then drifted back to sleep.  So I would say there is a positive trend to bedwetting, but I also understand this is a yo-yo experience!  I do believe the BabyKins cover is giving me more confidence to sleep deeply and not worry about it.

2.  I almost achieved my goal of going #2 every day in the two weeks.  I did go 12/14 days in my diaper.  And just two days ago, I was sitting in my chair in my home office and my diaper filled with #2 without me even feeling the urge or being aware.  I suspect it was more because I had some tummy things going on, but it was awesome none-the-less!  I am keeping this as a goal for the next two weeks.

3.  I am having a lot of dribbling after a wetting that continues for 10-15 minutes afterward.  Also, my stream is getting generally weaker when I do go.  I would say half of the time I start peeing and wasn't really aware of making the decision to wet, but still have urge sensations most of the time before going. 

4.  I am definitely in a rhythm / routine in terms of diaper wearing.  There is literally no scenario where I can't imagine being out in diapers.  I have been to the doctor, friends, family, work, dinner, traveling, plane, road trip, you name it.  I have had a couple of what I would call close calls in terms of blow outs, but that is just because I forgot to plan.   Once my wife and I were in counseling and I could tell I was about to have a blowout and was squirming on the sofa.  She could tell I was having issues and we ended the session early.  I had forgotten an extra diaper so had to sit in wet pants in the car home, but it didn't deter me keeping my sphincter relaxed.  I think this reflects a changing mental state where I'm just accepting that I will not hold back, regardless of if I am or am not physically capable.

5.  I currently use about 4 Better Dry Day diapers per day and one Better Dry overnight.  I might use a Better Dry overnight during the day if I'm going to be at my desk all day and that generally equates to 2 Better Dry Day diapers.  I am wetting about 7 ounces on average when I do pee and I would say that on average I pee every hour.  More during day when I'm drinking water fairly constantly, less in the evening.  I have not done much with diet, other than consistently two cups of coffee in the morning and 2 liters of water a day.

Exercise/Intimacy

1.  I am definitely flaccid most of the time.  I do not get many erections at all.  Only occasionally at night usually before my third wetting after my diaper is wet.  It seems to be a defense reaction my body puts out to not pee, but it is also when my penis is in a compressed state.  

2.  I have much less sensation during orgasm, and very little control if any.  It feels more spasm than anything else.  Definitely doesn't feel like "shooting" anything, more like a female orgasm that builds and explodes with sensation more than a burst.  Not sure if that makes sense.

3.  I am now running 3-5 times a week and that has helped with sleep a lot.

Final Thoughts

1.  I don't see myself stopping.  This is a good thing as I haven't had a mental moment where I want to throw in the towel.  If anything, I feel more committed that this is who I am and I'm at peace with the process which makes me happy.

2.  I don't know that I will become incontinent, but I do hope to be a bedwetter at some point whereby I just sleep through the night and wake up with a full diaper.

3.  I am surprised how much I now want #2 to be a part of my journey.  Hadn't expected that, but I enjoy it as much if not more.

4.  I definitely experience a physical calm when I put a new diaper on and crawl into bed.  I also have a very satisfied feeling each morning with a full and wet diaper.

I don't really know how helpful this all is, but it is good for me to post to keep a log of progress and I do hope it helps others who are wrestling with their own journey!

All the best!

[Kif]

Thanks for sharing! You're being very meticulous, and it's helpful for comparison!

Can relate a lot to what you've been going through with nighttime. Eventually I stopped thinking about it, and suddenly I found I wasn't waking up anymore...just finding myself wet in the morning with some still in my bladder. And that progressed from having some leftover in my bladder to eventually less more often. It was roughly:

1. dry
2. waking up to pee, but falling asleep before doing it
3. waking up to pee, and sometimes remembering to do it. feels like a chore to try, just want to sleep, but push through it.
4. waking up to pee and remembering to do it. feeling less like a chore, more relief.
5. vaguely waking up mid-pee
6. sometimes waking up already wet, but mostly full bladder. questioning if it wasn't just waking up to pee and forgetting.
7. sometimes waking up more wet, and less-full bladder. feeling less convinced I woke up and simply forgot -- marking it as waking up wet sometimes.
8. waking up completely wet and mostly empty. convince I wasn't waking up at all, confidently marking it as waking up wet.
9. waking up wet continues to increase in frequency throughout, but really picks up at this point. Maybe was once a week, maybe nothing for a few weeks for the first 4 months or so...And then months 5-6 it picked up really fast and it started becoming really consistent and feeling like it was every other day because suddenly it was. 

Also, good idea with making messing everyday an active goal. I lost track of that at some point myself and ended up only going every few days or so, I think it probably hurt my progress because of that (even though I wasn't holding back when I did go). Will keep that in mind for myself!

[oznl]

It looks like your experience is remarkably similar to mine and somewhat different to the "12 month guide" paradigm.  I can't help thinking that document could do with either an overhaul, or an alternate narrative.

You do seem to be getting there quicker than I did though.  I don't think bedwetting really appeared for several months and when it did, it was very ephemeral.

If my experience is anything to go by, be prepared for long "plateaus" where nothing change for months on end.

Your comment about the fragility of bedwetting early on also resonated strongly.  In a strange bout of nappy quantum indeterminacy, ANY attempt to observe or corral bedwetting would stop it for me. 

After a very large number of months stuck in that phase however, things suddenly seem to be progressing rapidly and I'm noticing that bedwetting is repeatable and less likely to be discouraged by my poking and prodding of it so that may suggest that things will settle down for you.  Currently for me, if it's just an up phase on the "yo yo" curve, it's a big one.

I'd be quite intimidated at the thought of burning through 4 - 5 BetterDry per day (I use a 2-high-capacity-nappy-per-day cadence) but I suppose dirty diapers would increase my usage.  Remaining wet is just fine but remaining dirty for any length of time would be intolerable for either me and/or those around me.

[Enthusi]

2 hours ago, oznl said:

I'd be quite intimidated at the thought of burning through 4 - 5 BetterDry per day (I use a 2-high-capacity-nappy-per-day cadence) but I suppose dirty diapers would increase my usage.

Ive always been surprised how people can only go through 1-2 diapers a day, even heavy duty ones.   You all are some camels!

[oznl]

41 minutes ago, Enthusi said:

Ive always been surprised how people can only go through 1-2 diapers a day, even heavy duty ones.   You all are some camels!

Camels are all about fluid conservation and I can assure you these days, I'm quite the reverse ?

I tried a 1 diaper day (out of a sense of morbid curiosity).  I found it to be impractical (weight/bulk) and ineffective (leaks) and I suspect skin compromise would soon have reared its ugly red head.

Two high capacity nappies per day is perfectly do-able.  Around 1/3 of the diaper's ISO rating is generally usable so a 5 litre "super nappy" will give you a little more than 1.5 liters in real world conditions.  Average human output per day is 2 to 2.5 liters so the math works.

Obviously, we're "wearing wet" most of the time for this to work so skin protection is important but I honestly find two long-range nappies to be less drama (and cheaper) than changing more than twice per day.  Support garments (compression pants) also help a lot as well as the insurance policy of waterproof pants.

The game changer of course would be a "full" diaper.  I'm mostly only wet.

[ozziebee]

I'm of the same thought as Oznl here.  Four Betterdry's a day seems a bit excessive.  Given that these things can hold about 2L of pee at max usage, if one was saturating these things before changing, that's up to about 8L of pee per day!  Huge amount of pee!  If one considers changing at about 1L or so, that's about 4L of pee per day?  Still excessive, perhaps?

Unless they're dirty (understandable to change more often), or sensitive skin?

[Stroller]

I'm in agreement with the Australian contingent on this.  I'm wearing cloth most of the time - I'm in disposables only when I've no access to a washing machine.  Two cloth nappies get me through the day, with another at night.  When I'm in disposables I generally add a low-capacity soaker, and often I then get through the day in just one, e.g. a Betterdry or an Astronaut.  It's not as if I don't drink enough - tea mostly.

[PuraVidaDip]

I’m in the 4-5 per day camp. I use a NS supreme (max out at 2-3 hours of wetting) with 1/2 better dry capacity or a incontrol hybrid with the same capacity (3-5 hours of wetting). I drink a lot of straight water, but my bms mostly dictate the change. For example I had one this morning at 1030 and another one at 1215. I was in a hybrid so that was a waste.

It’s just not realistic if you have bowel incontinence to use less for me. With diet changes I reduced from 4-8 bms a day down to 3-4 now. Not sure how you guys/gals do it but I’m impressed! Diaper Dynamo on YouTube goes through 2 a day and he poops in them. 

My urinary incontinence comes and goes but I find most mornings I’m wet. 

[DLJeff52]

23 hours ago, Kif said:

Thanks for sharing! You're being very meticulous, and it's helpful for comparison!

Can relate a lot to what you've been going through with nighttime. Eventually I stopped thinking about it, and suddenly I found I wasn't waking up anymore...just finding myself wet in the morning with some still in my bladder. And that progressed from having some leftover in my bladder to eventually less more often. It was roughly:

1. dry
2. waking up to pee, but falling asleep before doing it
3. waking up to pee, and sometimes remembering to do it. feels like a chore to try, just want to sleep, but push through it.
4. waking up to pee and remembering to do it. feeling less like a chore, more relief.
5. vaguely waking up mid-pee
6. sometimes waking up already wet, but mostly full bladder. questioning if it wasn't just waking up to pee and forgetting.
7. sometimes waking up more wet, and less-full bladder. feeling less convinced I woke up and simply forgot -- marking it as waking up wet sometimes.
8. waking up completely wet and mostly empty. convince I wasn't waking up at all, confidently marking it as waking up wet.
9. waking up wet continues to increase in frequency throughout, but really picks up at this point. Maybe was once a week, maybe nothing for a few weeks for the first 4 months or so...And then months 5-6 it picked up really fast and it started becoming really consistent and feeling like it was every other day because suddenly it was. 

Also, good idea with making messing everyday an active goal. I lost track of that at some point myself and ended up only going every few days or so, I think it probably hurt my progress because of that (even though I wasn't holding back when I did go). Will keep that in mind for myself!

Kif,

First of all honored you took the time to post...thank you!  Second, this is a perfect summary of the process!  I would say I'm in the 4-7 range with 5-6 being the most common right now.  Thats encouraging to have 5-6 months as a target for #8/9!  Really appreciate your addition here!

19 hours ago, oznl said:

Your comment about the fragility of bedwetting early on also resonated strongly.  In a strange bout of nappy quantum indeterminacy, ANY attempt to observe or corral bedwetting would stop it for me. 

 

This is so TRUE!  I find the less I think about it, the more it is likely to happen!  Thank you so much for sharing!! Very encouraging and I really appreciate you taking the time to chime in!

17 hours ago, Enthusi said:

Ive always been surprised how people can only go through 1-2 diapers a day, even heavy duty ones.   You all are some camels!

@oznl @Enthusi @ozziebee @Stroller

Thanks all for the observation on diaper count!   So here's my deal.  I sit and work at a computer all day.  My problem comes with leakage after 2-3 wettings where my bum hits the seat.  Again, I'm using the Better Dry Days and if I was standing, they could hold a lot more before that happens.  I suppose I could sit in wet pants or put plastic pants over to somehow extend the life, but that's where the 4-5 come into play.  One when I wake up, and that is what I ultimately #2 in mid-morning. Then another 2-3 until dinner and then one before bed.  If I use the thicker diapers I could probably do 2-3.  Any tips appreciated! Really appreciate the comments and that you took the time to share!

2 hours ago, PuraVidaDip said:

I’m in the 4-5 per day camp. I use a NS supreme (max out at 2-3 hours of wetting) with 1/2 better dry capacity or a incontrol hybrid with the same capacity (3-5 hours of wetting). I drink a lot of straight water, but my bms mostly dictate the change. For example I had one this morning at 1030 and another one at 1215. I was in a hybrid so that was a waste.

It’s just not realistic if you have bowel incontinence to use less for me. With diet changes I reduced from 4-8 bms a day down to 3-4 now. Not sure how you guys/gals do it but I’m impressed! Diaper Dynamo on YouTube goes through 2 a day and he poops in them. 

My urinary incontinence comes and goes but I find most mornings I’m wet. 

Here's to the 4-5 camp!  Thanks for sharing @PuraVidaDip

[oznl]

4 hours ago, DLJeff52 said:

Thanks all for the observation on diaper count!   So here's my deal.  I sit and work at a computer all day.  My problem comes with leakage after 2-3 wettings where my bum hits the seat.  Again, I'm using the Better Dry Days and if I was standing, they could hold a lot more before that happens.  I suppose I could sit in wet pants or put plastic pants over to somehow extend the life, but that's where the 4-5 come into play.  One when I wake up, and that is what I ultimately #2 in mid-morning. Then another 2-3 until dinner and then one before bed.  If I use the thicker diapers I could probably do 2-3.  Any tips appreciated! Really appreciate the comments and that you took the time to share!

Yep.  I recognise the problem.  When I had a career, I spent 97% of any working day where I wasn't traveling, polishing a chair seat.  That's a tough gig for a nappy and the risk of press-out leaks at the rear thighs was ever-present.

I worked out that the type of chair had some influence on this.  I found an old leather chair that was not only easy to wipe down in the event of "incidents", but had padding such that not so much pressure was placed on my nappy.  The load was spread across all of me in contact with the chair.  This helped.  It seemed like firm, cloth office chairs were the worst.

COVID intervened, my career was deleted and I was sent to the employment scrap heap as god and nature intended for late 50-something males.  I work now but part time and I'm not sitting down nearly as much.  On the rare occasions that I do, that's my biggest risk for leaking and if I do, it's a tiny amount.

Mitigation strategies include plastic pants that completely cover your nappy.  Another option that you might want to explore is a booster pad.  I find it's not so much the additional absorbency as their capacity to wick moisture away and better utilise other parts of the nappy's padding.  You may be better off with a lesser-capacity nappy augmented by a booster as I'm aware that BetterDrys will swell prodigiously to begin with.

ps:  leakage for me also dropped back a LOT as my pee cadence shifted towards high frequency/low volume voiding events.  It didn't entirely stop leakage but you mention "2 - 3 wettings" suggestion episodic voiding at considerable volume.  Over the course of a day, I'd probably have 20-30 "micro-wettings" now.  Nappies perform much better with constant drizzle compared to intermittent storms.

[Kif]

14 hours ago, DLJeff52 said:

I would say I'm in the 4-7 range with 5-6 being the most common right now.  Thats encouraging to have 5-6 months as a target for #8/9!  Really appreciate your addition here!

Glad this was helpful!

But, I'll caution that like others have noticed, bedwetting is a bit fickle. The first time I tried untraining it lasted only two months...but for whatever reason, in those two months I was wetting 4-5 days per week by the end of it, and this last time around it took me nearly 6 months to reach a similar point. I don't fully know why, hence why I suspect bedwetting is a lot more subconscious and psychological than we think (up to a point, earlier on...I'm sure Kali is right too, with the physical aspects starting to contribute at some point).

14 hours ago, DLJeff52 said:

I sit and work at a computer all day

I used to sit as well! At some point I switched to standing (forces me to take breaks every few hours, just to sit down for a bit), and I had very few leaking problems after that. 

Any and all times I've leaked have been sitting down at my desk in the office, or sitting on the couch watching stuff on the computer. But, I also had male anatomy at that time...typical leaks were due to the "dam problem", out the sides on the front (plus, at some point I had to stop caring which direction I was pointed anyway because it was causing me to hold subconsciously). 

For those times in the office, Oznl's advice was spot-on...plastic pants with a terry liner were pretty non-negotiable anytime I left the house, really. Even with that and a Tena Ultima I needed to be super vigilant about sticking to changing schedules while in the office...and I still had to carry backup pants and liners because I'd still leak sometimes.

[DLJeff52]

9 hours ago, Kif said:

Glad this was helpful!   I don't fully know why, hence why I suspect bedwetting is a lot more subconscious and psychological than we think

I couldn't agree more!  The more and more I realize that I'm entraining my mind as much as my body, the more patient I can become.  It should not be a surprise that "rerouting" the highways of my mind should take much longer than I'd like give how long they've been sending neurons to my brain to "hold it"!

19 hours ago, oznl said:

ps:  leakage for me also dropped back a LOT as my pee cadence shifted towards high frequency/low volume voiding events.  It didn't entirely stop leakage but you mention "2 - 3 wettings" suggestion episodic voiding at considerable volume.  Over the course of a day, I'd probably have 20-30 "micro-wettings" now.  Nappies perform much better with constant drizzle compared to intermittent storms.

This is a great observation!  I have noticed I tend to go more "on the hour" than every two to three hours.  I'm thinking I should start tracking time in between as a way to measure progress.  Great thoughts!  

I also appreciate @Kif thought about working standing up!  My wife has been trying to get me to get a COSTCO desk that raises to allow for standing or sitting!   This would probably be good for my back and my diaper budget!  

[I_am_Groot]

I use 3 BetterDrys per 24h: 1 night with booster and 2 per day (so its ~8h each).
With lesser capacity like the "Day" variant or other brands i probably would also be in the 4-5 diapers camp.
Of course exceptions do occur on days with high liquid intake, say on partynights with lots of alcohol.

I think amount of diapers wise you basically have 2 contradicting goals.
First, you want to enjoy the advantage of diapers as much as possible (having to go to the bathroom as less as possible)
This goal would dictate to reduce the changes per day to as low as possible... say only once, using the highest capacity diaper available.

Unfortunately this goal gets contradicted by hygiene, since not smell to much and dont get rashes is also important ?
For me, this has increased the optimal changes per day to the aforementioned 3.
Anything less and my skin tells me NO! and if i ignore it for more than a few days i will get the rash as a thanks.
Anything more kinda defeats the diapers advantage over the toilet.

Regarding BMs i try to go on every diaper change, since i am doing this i very rarely have to "waste" a diaper prematurely.

[DLJeff52]

9 minutes ago, I_am_Groot said:

I use 3 BetterDrys per 24h: 1 night with booster and 2 per day (so its ~8h each).
With lesser capacity like the "Day" variant or other brands i probably would also be in the 4-5 diapers camp.
Of course exceptions do occur on days with high liquid intake, say on partynights with lots of alcohol.

I think amount of diapers wise you basically have 2 contradicting goals.
First, you want to enjoy the advantage of diapers as much as possible (having to go to the bathroom as less as possible)
This goal would dictate to reduce the changes per day to as low as possible... say only once, using the highest capacity diaper available.

Unfortunately this goal gets contradicted by hygiene, since not smell to much and dont get rashes is also important ?
For me, this has increased the optimal changes per day to the aforementioned 3.
Anything less and my skin tells me NO! and if i ignore it for more than a few days i will get the rash as a thanks.
Anything more kinda defeats the diapers advantage over the toilet.

Regarding BMs i try to go on every diaper change, since i am doing this i very rarely have to "waste" a diaper prematurely.

Great summary Groot!  Thanks for sharing this!  How long have you been at this?  Sounds like you have found a nice rhythm.  I'm totally with you on juggling convenience with hygiene.  But paste has become a regular for me...I find my scrotal areas the most in need.  Anyway, you are spot on with the "Day" Variant...it has a marginally better capacity, IMO, than the Abena, but nothing like the regular Better Dry.  Have you found your BM rhythm has changed over time?  I'm still pretty regular at once a day, but now occasionally I see the twice a day.  Thank you so much for taking the time to post!

[I_am_Groot]

Im 24/7 for almost 2 years (since March 2020), longer if you count the few years before...
where i started from zero, accidentally "rediscovering" this love for diapers i had as a child (somehow it got lost in my late teens)...
over wearing on weekends only...
and then slowly the wearing time increased more and more towards 24/7.

Yea before wearing 24/7 i also had 1, max 2 bm's per day, but their timing where kinda unpredictable.
And its not nice having to go just an hour or so after you put a diaper on
The point of my idea was not to wait till those unpredictable urges hit you but do preemptive strikes at those convenient times where you change anyway.
As said in my last post, preemptively emptying those 3 times a day made it very rare that an urge hits me till next change.
Of course there are exceptions to normal days, say if i eat certain foods that somehow seem to activate the double turbo of my digestive system ?
but usually i know those in advance and can plan in a change shortly after the meal.

[DLJeff52]

Weeks 13-15

I can't believe it's already been three weeks!  I feel like I should apologize for taking awhile to post an update!  I'm going to use a slightly different format for this update, but will still include the statistics!

Today marks the 112 day of consecutive 24/7 on my journey...approaching the four month mark very rapidly.  I can say it has been an amazing experience and so far I have zero regrets!

Statistics

Category	Last 30 days	Last 111 Days	Notes
Days went #2 in Diapers	73.0%	55.0%	Biggest Surprise...didn't expect to do
Days Wet at Night
Woke Up, wet, slept	40.0%	49.5%	Becoming much shorter awake time
Unsure / Probably one unaware	26.7%	27.0%
At least 1 wet unaware	33.3%	23.4%	Feels like I'm on a plateau here
Average # Of Diapers / Day	3.6	3.6	Abena is my pick of Best Value
Average # Of Diapers / Night	1	1	Better Dry is my pick of Best Value
Hypnosis	6.7%	51.4%	Biggest Change In Last Month

The biggest change for me has been how little I'm not using hypnosis or subliminals.  I believe this reflects a big mental shift where I'm very accepting of being diaper dependent / incontinent (don't want to debate definitions!).  So either the hypnosis I did in the first two and a half months really worked, or I've come to accept I need diapers and I do everything in them.  I have noticed the last three weeks have been life as "normal" where I'm not even considering wearing or not wearing diapers, it is just a part of me.  That has been the most significant change this period, I see myself as using diapers, period.  I actually paused yesterday and couldn't remember the last time I actually used a toilet.

Another statistic is the increase in #2.  When I started this journey I had no plans or desires to include #2, but now, it is nearly a daily occurrence.  I am committed to not exercising my sphincter muscles ever.  At the beginning, I would just hurry to a toilet and go #2 when I felt the urge, now I just let it go in my diaper.  Hate the clean up, but love the release.  And actually, the cleanup is manageable as I work from home.  Not as big a problem as I would have imagined.

The last statistic of note for me is the bedwetting.  I think I have reached the plateau where I sometimes have a night where I know that at least one wetting occurred while I was asleep.  Sometimes I'm unsure because I can't remember or because I wake up for the first time at 5am to pee and am too tired to check if I have peed in my diaper previously.  I know everyone says this takes the longest, is the most unpredictable road and vacillates the most frequently without reason or rhyme.  I know I'm still way early in the journey relative to what this may look like in a year or so, but honestly, I just go to bed each night at peace that it will all happen in time and don't worry about rushing it as much as when I first started.

Physical / Medical

Skin Care:  I currently need to use Calmoseptine cream on every change now.  I have skin irritations around the "sensitive" parts of my body and along groin creases.  While not bad, the cream is now essential to keep my skin healthy and free from red irritation or itching.  I probably should have been doing this "proactively" before, but have reacted to the symptoms. I would encourage anyone on their 24/7 journey to use this cream or a similar one preventatively to help maintain your skin!

I am definitely leaking/dripping more than ever before, especially after wetting.  I am now wetting over 14 times a day or roughly once every 1-2 hours.  I rarely pause during the day between sensation and releasing and if I'm occupied with a call or conversation, I don't really pay attention or notice it starting or ending.  The sensation has changed from feeling a stream of urine fill my diaper to a general "warming" of my genitals where the diaper is filling.

Going #2 has been a regular daily occurrence, although in the last couple of weeks I have gone more than once a day.  I don't know if this is in part due to the increase in almonds and yogurt and oatmeal that I have been eating or coincidence, but I will begin tracking this frequency.  When the urge to go #2 comes, I am fully aware that I am keeping my sphincter relaxed and choosing to allow it to just happen.  Once it begins, it is easy to let it flow, however, if my diaper constrains the flow, I do push to assist and feel the diaper fill up very quickly.  I do not currently stay in the diaper but change after going to keep rashes from beginning. Mentally, I think this is helping my view of being dependent/incontinent as I now NEVER use the toilet unless I'm out in public and need to go.  In these cases I just excuse myself quickly so I don't need to ever "hold it". 

I don't know that I'm "impotent" per se, but I am hardly ever getting erections except occasionally at night as a defense mechanism from peeing.  I notice this when my diaper is already full at the last wetting where I wake up with a quasi-erection.  Nothing like when I was in my prime!  I'm wondering if I should try Viagra so I can still be intimate with my wife, although she says she is fine without it as much if I am.  BLESSING! :). Still, wondering if anyone has seen those kinds of medications impede their diaper progress!  

Diapers and Clothing

Since using the Babykins double lined Terry cloth plastic diaper covers, I have had NO leak issues and have even stopped using a pad on the bed.  Only a handful of times has the wrap saved me, but when it does it is easy to wash and dry...a real game changer and I like how it adds volume to my diaper.  

I also have "committed" to BetterDry as my overnight since I can purchase them at $1.40 vs the $2.55 per diaper cost for MegaMax.  I find them roughly equally absorbent and can't seem to find a reason to pay the higher cost.  

I'm going to commit to the Abena M4 as my daytime preference.  I tried BetterDry Day and the M3, but believe the M4 has better capacity, is quieter and not bulky so I can wear it anywhere anytime and I find having one diaper is easier from a planning perspective.  I may still get some M3s or other "underwear" for times where I know I won't be wearing a diaper long or am not likely to pee, but for now that is my plan.

I need to wear onesies when I'm out and about as I haven't found a good alternative to prevent sagging.  Plastic pants work, but I find the onesie more comfortable and easier to fit over the diaper and still be able to fit in my clothing.  Again, prefer the REARZ as the sizing is accurate and durability seems very good from my experience.

While Traveling / Orlando

I took the family to Orlando last week.  Was an amazing trip and probably the greatest affirmation to my ability to take this lifestyle into any realm.  Here are some of the lessons I learned from traveling with family and spending a lot of time out and about!

1.  I brought four onesies and washed each one I wore at the end of the day and packed an extra in my backpack while at the park each day "just in case".  Wore a t-shirt over the onesie and while this was definitely warmer than it would have been, didn't cause too much of an issue as we were just waiting in lines or going on rides most of the day.

2.  I ended up using about 2-3 M4 Abenas while at the parks.  I made sure to use a lot of the Calmoseptine in the morning as well as powder.  Also had shaved to keep skin smooth and try and prevent chafing.  This seemed to be successful as I averaged 15,000 - 22,000 steps a day and had no problem with chafing or irritation.  I definitely didn't go as much as normal given the dehydrating effect of walking and being outside all the time.

3.  Bathroom changes were really non-events.  The parks let you take backpacks in, and I rolled up three M4s with rubber bands to keep them rolled up and was able to put those, a onesie change and a lunchbox with food for the whole family in my smaller backpack that we used for the day.  Having the pack made it easy to just take into the restroom and change as needed.  Throwing the diaper away was perhaps tricky as I had to carry it out and as such did so when my kids had already gone, so I was the "last one to go" but had no problems changing / disposing. 

4.  Bag inspection on entry was no big deal.  They saw the diapers, didn't care, life went on.

5.  For planning purposes, I used about 75% of the amount of diapers I would normally have used for the week and had the luxury of packing an extra duffle for the week.  I also brought some M3s and my overnight BetterDrys and had absolutely no issues.  The Babykins cover helped as I didn't need to worry about leaks or pads for the bed.  Being in tight quarters with the family for a week made this a little tricky, but it wasn't that big a deal as I just kept my duffle in my closet and took out what I needed to the bathroom each time.  I was able to dispose each day of the used diapers in outdoor garbage cans so didn't need to worry about keeping dirty diapers in the condominium.

6.  The last day, the person inspecting my bag saw the diapers and asked if I wanted a handicap tag to facilitate getting to the front of lines.  I chose not to because this would have raised flags with my kids and I didn't feel like it would have honored the purpose of that tag, but just fyi.

Feedback / Goals

1.  I have begun running, but want to do so more often (4x a week is my goal).  Still have a goal to lose 15-20 pounds by the end of the year.

2.  Continue with 100% utilization of diapers for #1 and #2.  This month I would like to try and intentionally deal with #2 in public to begin allowing myself to gain confidence that I can accomplish this without inconveniencing people around me.

3.  Continue to research and refine diet to help increase #2 frequency to assist in goals of diaper dependence.

4.  I'd welcome any feedback on people using products while they are exercising or running.  Also very interested if someone has different ideas on dietary tips to increase #2 frequency. Finally, would love to hear any feedback if anyone found the use of hypnosis / subliminal helpful at the beginning and then fading as you gained confidence!

Thank you to each that provides feedback and encouragement!  Journeying alone stinks, this community is very helpful!

 

[PuraVidaDip]

On 3/11/2022 at 11:39 AM, DLJeff52 said:

Weeks 13-15

I can't believe it's already been three weeks!  I feel like I should apologize for taking awhile to post an update!  I'm going to use a slightly different format for this update, but will still include the statistics!

Today marks the 112 day of consecutive 24/7 on my journey...approaching the four month mark very rapidly.  I can say it has been an amazing experience and so far I have zero regrets!

Statistics

Category	Last 30 days	Last 111 Days	Notes
Days went #2 in Diapers	73.0%	55.0%	Biggest Surprise...didn't expect to do
Days Wet at Night
Woke Up, wet, slept	40.0%	49.5%	Becoming much shorter awake time
Unsure / Probably one unaware	26.7%	27.0%
At least 1 wet unaware	33.3%	23.4%	Feels like I'm on a plateau here
Average # Of Diapers / Day	3.6	3.6	Abena is my pick of Best Value
Average # Of Diapers / Night	1	1	Better Dry is my pick of Best Value
Hypnosis	6.7%	51.4%	Biggest Change In Last Month

The biggest change for me has been how little I'm not using hypnosis or subliminals.  I believe this reflects a big mental shift where I'm very accepting of being diaper dependent / incontinent (don't want to debate definitions!).  So either the hypnosis I did in the first two and a half months really worked, or I've come to accept I need diapers and I do everything in them.  I have noticed the last three weeks have been life as "normal" where I'm not even considering wearing or not wearing diapers, it is just a part of me.  That has been the most significant change this period, I see myself as using diapers, period.  I actually paused yesterday and couldn't remember the last time I actually used a toilet.

Another statistic is the increase in #2.  When I started this journey I had no plans or desires to include #2, but now, it is nearly a daily occurrence.  I am committed to not exercising my sphincter muscles ever.  At the beginning, I would just hurry to a toilet and go #2 when I felt the urge, now I just let it go in my diaper.  Hate the clean up, but love the release.  And actually, the cleanup is manageable as I work from home.  Not as big a problem as I would have imagined.

The last statistic of note for me is the bedwetting.  I think I have reached the plateau where I sometimes have a night where I know that at least one wetting occurred while I was asleep.  Sometimes I'm unsure because I can't remember or because I wake up for the first time at 5am to pee and am too tired to check if I have peed in my diaper previously.  I know everyone says this takes the longest, is the most unpredictable road and vacillates the most frequently without reason or rhyme.  I know I'm still way early in the journey relative to what this may look like in a year or so, but honestly, I just go to bed each night at peace that it will all happen in time and don't worry about rushing it as much as when I first started.

Physical / Medical

Skin Care:  I currently need to use Calmoseptine cream on every change now.  I have skin irritations around the "sensitive" parts of my body and along groin creases.  While not bad, the cream is now essential to keep my skin healthy and free from red irritation or itching.  I probably should have been doing this "proactively" before, but have reacted to the symptoms. I would encourage anyone on their 24/7 journey to use this cream or a similar one preventatively to help maintain your skin!

I am definitely leaking/dripping more than ever before, especially after wetting.  I am now wetting over 14 times a day or roughly once every 1-2 hours.  I rarely pause during the day between sensation and releasing and if I'm occupied with a call or conversation, I don't really pay attention or notice it starting or ending.  The sensation has changed from feeling a stream of urine fill my diaper to a general "warming" of my genitals where the diaper is filling.

Going #2 has been a regular daily occurrence, although in the last couple of weeks I have gone more than once a day.  I don't know if this is in part due to the increase in almonds and yogurt and oatmeal that I have been eating or coincidence, but I will begin tracking this frequency.  When the urge to go #2 comes, I am fully aware that I am keeping my sphincter relaxed and choosing to allow it to just happen.  Once it begins, it is easy to let it flow, however, if my diaper constrains the flow, I do push to assist and feel the diaper fill up very quickly.  I do not currently stay in the diaper but change after going to keep rashes from beginning. Mentally, I think this is helping my view of being dependent/incontinent as I now NEVER use the toilet unless I'm out in public and need to go.  In these cases I just excuse myself quickly so I don't need to ever "hold it". 

I don't know that I'm "impotent" per se, but I am hardly ever getting erections except occasionally at night as a defense mechanism from peeing.  I notice this when my diaper is already full at the last wetting where I wake up with a quasi-erection.  Nothing like when I was in my prime!  I'm wondering if I should try Viagra so I can still be intimate with my wife, although she says she is fine without it as much if I am.  BLESSING! :). Still, wondering if anyone has seen those kinds of medications impede their diaper progress!  

Diapers and Clothing

Since using the Babykins double lined Terry cloth plastic diaper covers, I have had NO leak issues and have even stopped using a pad on the bed.  Only a handful of times has the wrap saved me, but when it does it is easy to wash and dry...a real game changer and I like how it adds volume to my diaper.  

I also have "committed" to BetterDry as my overnight since I can purchase them at $1.40 vs the $2.55 per diaper cost for MegaMax.  I find them roughly equally absorbent and can't seem to find a reason to pay the higher cost.  

I'm going to commit to the Abena M4 as my daytime preference.  I tried BetterDry Day and the M3, but believe the M4 has better capacity, is quieter and not bulky so I can wear it anywhere anytime and I find having one diaper is easier from a planning perspective.  I may still get some M3s or other "underwear" for times where I know I won't be wearing a diaper long or am not likely to pee, but for now that is my plan.

I need to wear onesies when I'm out and about as I haven't found a good alternative to prevent sagging.  Plastic pants work, but I find the onesie more comfortable and easier to fit over the diaper and still be able to fit in my clothing.  Again, prefer the REARZ as the sizing is accurate and durability seems very good from my experience.

While Traveling / Orlando

I took the family to Orlando last week.  Was an amazing trip and probably the greatest affirmation to my ability to take this lifestyle into any realm.  Here are some of the lessons I learned from traveling with family and spending a lot of time out and about!

1.  I brought four onesies and washed each one I wore at the end of the day and packed an extra in my backpack while at the park each day "just in case".  Wore a t-shirt over the onesie and while this was definitely warmer than it would have been, didn't cause too much of an issue as we were just waiting in lines or going on rides most of the day.

2.  I ended up using about 2-3 M4 Abenas while at the parks.  I made sure to use a lot of the Calmoseptine in the morning as well as powder.  Also had shaved to keep skin smooth and try and prevent chafing.  This seemed to be successful as I averaged 15,000 - 22,000 steps a day and had no problem with chafing or irritation.  I definitely didn't go as much as normal given the dehydrating effect of walking and being outside all the time.

3.  Bathroom changes were really non-events.  The parks let you take backpacks in, and I rolled up three M4s with rubber bands to keep them rolled up and was able to put those, a onesie change and a lunchbox with food for the whole family in my smaller backpack that we used for the day.  Having the pack made it easy to just take into the restroom and change as needed.  Throwing the diaper away was perhaps tricky as I had to carry it out and as such did so when my kids had already gone, so I was the "last one to go" but had no problems changing / disposing. 

4.  Bag inspection on entry was no big deal.  They saw the diapers, didn't care, life went on.

5.  For planning purposes, I used about 75% of the amount of diapers I would normally have used for the week and had the luxury of packing an extra duffle for the week.  I also brought some M3s and my overnight BetterDrys and had absolutely no issues.  The Babykins cover helped as I didn't need to worry about leaks or pads for the bed.  Being in tight quarters with the family for a week made this a little tricky, but it wasn't that big a deal as I just kept my duffle in my closet and took out what I needed to the bathroom each time.  I was able to dispose each day of the used diapers in outdoor garbage cans so didn't need to worry about keeping dirty diapers in the condominium.

6.  The last day, the person inspecting my bag saw the diapers and asked if I wanted a handicap tag to facilitate getting to the front of lines.  I chose not to because this would have raised flags with my kids and I didn't feel like it would have honored the purpose of that tag, but just fyi.

Feedback / Goals

1.  I have begun running, but want to do so more often (4x a week is my goal).  Still have a goal to lose 15-20 pounds by the end of the year.

2.  Continue with 100% utilization of diapers for #1 and #2.  This month I would like to try and intentionally deal with #2 in public to begin allowing myself to gain confidence that I can accomplish this without inconveniencing people around me.

3.  Continue to research and refine diet to help increase #2 frequency to assist in goals of diaper dependence.

4.  I'd welcome any feedback on people using products while they are exercising or running.  Also very interested if someone has different ideas on dietary tips to increase #2 frequency. Finally, would love to hear any feedback if anyone found the use of hypnosis / subliminal helpful at the beginning and then fading as you gained confidence!

Thank you to each that provides feedback and encouragement!  Journeying alone stinks, this community is very helpful!

 

Great update! #2 in public is no big deal. I’d say the biggest issues is carrying the bagged soiled diaper to the sink to toss it in the garbage. Just make sure you have wipes and extra cream. 
 

For running, chafing was a major issue for me. I got 1 mile in a plastic tena (my workout diaper) under my running shorts and had to walk back. I ran 4 miles the other day thanks to liberally applying Chamois Buttr to my inner thighs and diaper. Now I glide no problem! I tried but stopped using fixation pants and compression shorts. If I go to a gym I’ll use compression shorts. I even went to the drug store after my run and carried two bags home. No issues. I wasn’t even that noisy. 
 

I went skiing with my in-laws last week for a week and other than my father in law asking me “but you don’t poop in your pants right?” TWICE at a family discussion, after I told him in private I was having incontinence issues, all went well. I don’t even think people knew I was diapered, even though I thought it was obvious. I ski with a pack all the time anyways, but wearing a backpack around got questions. I just answered, wipes, a bunch of crap I probably don’t need etc. But with the skiing I didn’t need the chamois buttr. I just wore PUL pants shiny side out. 
 

I’m 2.5 months dual 24/7.

[DLJeff52]

Weeks 16-20

I am a couple days shy of 5 months!  Amazing how time flies!

Statistics

Category	Last 30 Days	Trailing 30-60 days	Last 141 Days	Notes
Days went #2 in Diapers	86.7%	73.0%	61.7%	Only don't when in public role
Days Wet at Night
Woke Up, wet, slept	36.7%	40.0%	49.6%	I am much less awake / aware
Unsure / Probably one unaware	26.7%	26.7%	27.0%	Confidentthat first 1-3 wettings are asleep
At least 1 wet unaware	36.7%	33.3%	23.4%	Feels like I'm on a plateau here
Average # Of Diapers / Day	3.8	3.6	3.6	I'm looking closer to 4 / day
Average # Of Diapers / Night	1	1	1	Better Dry and Babykins Terry Plastic Pants
Hypnosis	0.0%	6.7%	51.4%	Mental Reinforcement not needed

I definitely feel weaker in all aspects of urinary and bowel.  There is a lot more dribbling, especially at the end of peeing it seems to go on longer, with the urge sensation fading more quickly and dribbling extending as long as 30 seconds.

Mentally, I feel stressed at even the thought of not being diapered, it is not even a consideration at this point.  I have a rhythm, I mentally am convinced of the "need" and there is no desire to stop at this point.

I still feel like I'm plateaued at the wetting at night, but I do see signs of more steady "wettings" while I'm asleep or much less awake than initially.  The plastic covering is amazing!! Have't leaked once in over two months using the cover. Don't even use a rubber sheet at this point. 

Physical / Medical

Skin Care:  This is my biggest issue the last month.  Has anyone used Triple Paste?  I'm looking for a "stronger cream".  I am applying every morning and night, but still having rash issues inside my thighs.  

Going #2 is NO BIG DEAL anymore.  I am still fairly regular, so there is little opportunity for me to experience something in public, but I did have an episode of diarrhea surprise me and fill my diaper suddenly while out and about.  No problem, just went and changed.  Had a plastic bag to contain the diaper and went about my business.  

I rarely think about peeing anymore.  If my diaper is almost full or full, oh well, it may leak a little bit, but no big deal! There have been times where I didn't remember peeing at all and noticed my diaper was full.  Nothing better than having to check the diaper indicator to see if you have actually gone!

I had my first dream of peeing as an incontinent!  This was a big deal!  I was standing waiting for an elevator and looked down and saw myself peeing and had neither the urge nor ability to stop it!  Loved it!! 

Diapers and Clothing

I have not changed anything over the last month, with onesies and the plastic cover from Babykins basically necessities now.  I suddenly have 8 onesies and wear them every day.  

Feedback / Goals

My only goal now is to stay in this mode for at least one year.  I know after 5 months it is completely doable and then I will reassess where I'm at, if I even have a choice at that point!

Sorry for the shorter update, but I at least wanted to get one up as I hadn't posted in awhile!

Thanks for the encouragement and support!

[oznl]

Generally speaking, you seem to be tracking faster than me so congratulations.  I suspect my “progress” (if you call it that) might be inhibited by maintaining operational control of #2 along with a background degree of diffidence or guilt about the venture.

I certainly recognize this “plateau” of fairly intermittent bedwetting you mention.  I spent a VERY long time there, well more than a year I think.

The only things I can say is that going to sleep wet seemed to provoke more “results” (although there was always the ambiguity of what happened when as I would be wet anyway to some extent upon falling asleep) and when I DID come off that plateau, it happened quite quickly.

I still experience that "cycle" (sine wave, whatever) thing though.  I actually had a few "dry" nights in a run this week (where I could clearly remember waking to use my nappy) but those runs never last.  Normal transmission resumed on Wednesday and I've sleep-wet every night since.

[DLJeff52]

14 hours ago, oznl said:

I still experience that "cycle" (sine wave, whatever) thing though.  I actually had a few "dry" nights in a run this week (where I could clearly remember waking to use my nappy) but those runs never last.  Normal transmission resumed on Wednesday and I've sleep-wet every night since.

@oznlThanks for the feedback and encouragement!  I've noticed my "drier" nights where I wake up to pee or when I actually don't pee until morning are tied to (a) alcohol--which is opposite of many others, (b) sexual release, and (c) evening workout where it is hard to re-hydrate.  

As to #2, working from home helps me be able to develop that regularity.  I don't anticipate to ever really be fecal incontinent, but it does make sure all my sphincters stay relaxed!  

Had a great night last night where I woke up and thought I was dry only to realize I had flooded diaper during the night while sleeping!  A practical first! 

[Kif]

1 hour ago, DLJeff52 said:

Had a great night last night where I woke up and thought I was dry only to realize I had flooded diaper during the night while sleeping!  A practical first! 

That's fantastic! Congratulations! 

Bet that feels great, and I'm sure there are more to come...

[DLJeff52]

6 Months!

Today marks the sixth month for me 24/7.  To be honest, a part of me can't believe I've made it this far.  I've had earlier binge/purge efforts, but this time seems VERY different.  I think the biggest difference is my mindset.  I've done a lot more homework on the process, the possible consequences, the reasons I have for pursuing it and am at much greater mental peace around the journey.  

Statistics

Note: Going forward I will only continue highlighting the Night activity as this is the only area that I suspect will continue changing over time.  I am now nearly 100% with #2 and have consistently used 4 Abena M4 each day and 1 BD with plastic/Terry-lined wrap.  These work for me and will likely continue with little or no variance.  Also, I am not using and don't feel a need for hypnosis or further positive affirmation, so there is no benefit in reporting on this either.  

If you have a statistic you think would be interesting to track, please let me know as I love numbers! 

Category	Last 30 Days	Trailing 30-60 days	Last 180 Days	Notes
Days went #2 in Diapers	90%	87%	77.2%	Now do all the time
Days Wet at Night
Woke Up, wet, slept	19%	28%	42%	I am much less awake / aware
Unsure / Probably one unaware	32%	30%	28%	If I didn't drink much before bed, then not sure if early morning is first wetting or not
At least 1 wet unaware	49%	42%	29%	First wetting is totally unconscious every time
Average # Of Diapers / Day	4	3.8	3.7	Because of #2, consistently 4 a day
Average # Of Diapers / Night	1	1	1	Better Dry and Babykins Terry Plastic Pants
Hypnosis	0%	3%	38%	Mental Reinforcement not needed

There are two things that stand out over the last 30 days.  

First, my increase in #2 (27/30 days) with the others just being because I happened to be next to the bathroom when I felt #2 starting to go.  I don't hold it at all now and as soon as I feel that bowel pressure, it just begins to come out and I just let it.  No big deal.  Cleaning up has become a matter of course and doesn't bother me.  Plastic pants help contain the odor until I can get to a restroom when in public and other than that I hardly give it all a second thought.  

The second standout is the increase in my night wetting.  I am feeling very confident that most of my first night wettings are done while asleep.  There are some days when I wake up early and immediately begin going, but can't tell if it's the first wetting or if there have been others.  I have the BD with a double Terry-lined cover so it makes it hard to determine how full the diaper really is before wetting.  The second wetting is hit and miss where I may semi-wake up and notice I'm peeing or just before it begins.  The last wetting is usually one where I wake up and go.  This wetting is occasionally accompanied by a mild erection which to me indicates that my body may still be worried about leaking or subconsciously aware that the diaper is full.  I think I need to just mentally keep reinforcing that nothing is going to leak and it is ok to just relax and go.  I haven't been using a rubber sheet because the plastic cover has been 100% effective, but think I'll go back to using one to see if it just helps the mental aspect.

Physical / Medical

Skin Care:  This continues to be my biggest issue, although it is currently under control.  I currently use Calmoseptine and lather my entire area both in the morning and at night.  This has worked to help prevent or cure any irritations that have occurred.  I have found the Butt Paste to be helpful with some more anal irritation issues associated with my increase in #2, but would say I've only had to use it once or twice this past month.

I am beginning to experience a lot more post-pee dribbling.  I notice that after I start peeing, the flow is slower and lasts longer and I can often feel drops continuing for minutes after I'm done peeing.  If I've been really hydrated, there is a lot of stress incontinence that continues after I'm done where the slightest shift creates another release, especially when I'm in a seated position.  This dribbling or stress incontinence can actually continue for a longer period after the wetting has finished.

When I'm hydrated, I rarely have a conscious awareness to "give consent" to the release as it just seems to happen, particularly during the day when I'm working or my mind is distracted.  My body seems to just say "oh, I see you're busy, we are good down here and will just let it start".  When I'm less hydrated, I feel the urge a little more in advance for some reason.  I don't feel like I'm holding it at all, just that there is a more discernable urge that seems to "require" some mental consent.  

In an effort to stay active, I'm choosing to run without any protection and if I need to go, it just happens.  While it can be slightly embarrassing to have pee dribbling off my shorts, I've also noticed that no one even cares.  I just break into a short stretch while it happens and no one gives me the time of day.  I'm sure this isn't the best hygienic practice as I then need to finish my run with wet pants, but so far that hasn't bothered me or led to chaffing.  Probably because I'm wearing spandex to keep everything "snug" when I run.  

Diapers and Clothing

I have found that when it is too hot for a onesie and t-shirt, I can wear boxers over my diaper and it provides adequate support.  However, if I'm walking or moving, a onesie is infinitely better at keeping things snug until a change is possible or needed.  I continue to find the REARZ onesies the best fitting and most durable, especially for the price.  While I wish they were offered more consistently in colors other than white or black, they remain my go to.  

I now own 3 of the Babykins double Terry-lined plastic wraps and they continue to operate with 100% leak prevention.  Easy to wash and dry, I just keep three in the rotation and have had no issues with them.  Great product, a must have for the serious untrainers!  And no, I don't get anything from anyone for promoting products.

Medical

I've been tracking my bladder flow and believe that I am now at around 80ml per wetting.  My bladder is thus about 5-6x its original size before I started untraining.  I'm not sure how hard it would be to retrain or return to "normal", but for right now I have no desire to move in that direction.

Goals

Having made it 6 months, I am now fully committed to completing one full year of 24/7.  I understand that by that point I may not have a choice to "return" but am at peace with that possibility.  I have noticed that wearing diapers and pursuing this untraining has brought me peace and calm that I didn't fully appreciate when I started.  I am lucky enough to have the means to support this process (I spend about $185 per month on diapers) and I have found myself healthy in attitude and presence with others and life situations.  I know that may sound like an over-glorification of what untraining has helped achieve, but I guess I just wanted to offer it as a form of encouragement to any that see this lifestyle as a way to cope with life, pursue greater peace and just find a genuine acceptance of oneself. 

As always, I'm open to any comments, questions or suggestions moving forward!

Thank you to those who have provided support along the way.  Wanted to especially call out @oznl @Enthusi @sparklezBear @Kif for their consistent posts and personal encouragements along the way!

[Gaylange]

On 2/19/2022 at 9:40 PM, I_am_Groot said:

Unfortunately this goal gets contradicted by hygiene, since not smell to much and dont get rashes is also important ?

For me, this has increased the optimal changes per day to the aforementioned 3.
Anything less and my skin tells me NO! and if i ignore it for more than a few days i will get the rash as a thanks.
Anything more kinda defeats the diapers advantage over the toilet.

For serious wetters like me and others here, it's not a problem to have more than 4 or 5 diapers a day. I've always drunk a lot and had to go to the toilet very often. I put up to 6 diapers a day and it's still an advantage compared to going to the toilet twice each hour. The more you pee, the more you need diapers but the more you go to the toilet every day too. I'd say the benefit always goes to diapers.

 

On 2/19/2022 at 8:42 PM, DLJeff52 said:

I couldn't agree more!  The more and more I realize that I'm entraining my mind as much as my body, the more patient I can become.  It should not be a surprise that "rerouting" the highways of my mind should take much longer than I'd like give how long they've been sending neurons to my brain to "hold it"!

This is a great observation!  I have noticed I tend to go more "on the hour" than every two to three hours.  I'm thinking I should start tracking time in between as a way to measure progress.  Great thoughts!  

I also appreciate @Kif thought about working standing up!  My wife has been trying to get me to get a COSTCO desk that raises to allow for standing or sitting!   This would probably be good for my back and my diaper budget!  

I don't think it's a good idea. The less you rember how many times you do it, the more easy it is to forget (Sarnoga and others talk about it in their files). It's a nice feeling to have a wet diaper and no idea of how it could be so wet.  Everybody is different but it works very well for me. I pee at least twice each hour, 70pc of the time. Less after eating, a bit more in the evening.

I need to write an update about my journey to talk about it, I'll do it later. Stilll reading stories here and it helps a lot. Thanks @DLJeff52 and everybody else for sharing your experience.

[DLJeff52]

On 5/19/2022 at 9:16 AM, Gaylange said:

For serious wetters like me and others here, it's not a problem to have more than 4 or 5 diapers a day. I've always drunk a lot and had to go to the toilet very often. I put up to 6 diapers a day and it's still an advantage compared to going to the toilet twice each hour. The more you pee, the more you need diapers but the more you go to the toilet every day too. I'd say the benefit always goes to diapers.

 

I don't think it's a good idea. The less you rember how many times you do it, the more easy it is to forget (Sarnoga and others talk about it in their files). It's a nice feeling to have a wet diaper and no idea of how it could be so wet.  Everybody is different but it works very well for me. I pee at least twice each hour, 70pc of the time. Less after eating, a bit more in the evening.

I need to write an update about my journey to talk about it, I'll do it later. Stilll reading stories here and it helps a lot. Thanks @DLJeff52 and everybody else for sharing your experience.

Gaylange! Great thoughts!! I just had my first "wait how did that happen" moment with finding a wet diaper indicator, having taken your advice to heart! Please do share your update!  I love hearing about all the nuances we each navigate!