LGBT model goes all underwearness to protest NC law

[spark]

Is security guards in public bathrooms an attempt at

[WBDaddy]

3 hours ago, spark said:

So why did North Carolina Republicans pass this law?

[Personalias]

I couldn't get this out of my head!

[Abi]

It seems to me that this is a classic example of the problem of "derivative laws".

What is the ACTUAL "wrongdoing" that they are trying to prevent? Well, let's see ... it's, um, assault, rape, sexual assault, voyeurism, and ... hey ... ya know what?? There are already laws against ALL of these things in all civilized countries already.

So they've got a whole lot of laws, prohibiting these acts ... and then they come along and say "oh look ... we've just identified a situation in which there is an opportunity to commit these offences ... that cannot be allowed, can it? Quick, we'd better pass a derivative law, to prevent these opportunities for law-breaking arising."

But here's the paradox. If you believe that laws are effective to deter people from offending, then there's no need for the derivative law, because the primary laws are already in place to prevent the offending, whether or not the opportunity for doing so is allowed to arise. But if you don't believe that laws are effective to deter people from offending, then what do you suppose is the point of passing the derivative laws?

Put it another way ... which do you think is the correct approach to take?

(a) If somebody commits an offence of assault, rape, sexual assault or voyeurism, they should be prosecuted (and, if convicted, punished) ... but if they do not then they are no criminal and should be allowed to get on with their lives? Or

(b) It should be a criminal offence, for which somebody may be prosecuted (and, if convicted, punished)

[WBDaddy]

While I completely agree with your sentiments (and applaud how articulate you are with describing the concept of "derivative law"), I must make a point regarding your last sentence.

In the US, anyway, "progressives" are fighting for

[Cya]

10 hours ago, WBDaddy said:

While I completely agree with your sentiments (and applaud how articulate you are with describing the concept of "derivative law"), I must make a point regarding your last sentence.

In the US, anyway, "progressives" are fighting for

[WBDaddy]

1 hour ago, Cya said:

[spark]

2 hours ago, Cya said:

[willnotwill]

13 hours ago, WBDaddy said:

In the US, anyway, "progressives" are fighting for

[Cya]

1 hour ago, WBDaddy said:

Their intentions are to push us back into the 50's, when being gay (or non-white for that matter)

[WBDaddy]

1 minute ago, Cya said:

I highly doubt that's what North Carolina has in mind. They're not Mississippi or Alabama.

Sorry, but that's exactly what they have in mind.

[Cya]

4 minutes ago, WBDaddy said:

Sorry, but that's exactly what they have in mind.

[WBDaddy]

2 minutes ago, Cya said:

...then that justifies security in front of restrooms to ensure everyone's safety in North Carolina.

And why do you vote Republican again?

[Cya]

15 minutes ago, WBDaddy said:

And why do you vote Republican again?

[WBDaddy]

22 minutes ago, Cya said:

It's about... getting revenge against UBER.

[spark]

51 minutes ago, Cya said:

I highly doubt that's what North Carolina has in mind. They're not Mississippi or Alabama.

This is absurd.

[Cya]

Who ever said I was supporting the law?

[ForbiddenFruit]

8 minutes ago, Cya said:

Who ever said I was supporting the law?

[Cya]

5 minutes ago, ForbiddenFruit said:

The best solution is for cis people to stop harrassing trans people. End of fucking story. It's okay for you to stop tripping over your own feet six ways from Sunday and admitting that this law is wholly, entirely about the oppression of trans women by the new right.

It's this attitude that causes such divisions of society in the first place. When you label us and we label you then that just further separates us. We're all humans after all.

[ForbiddenFruit]

1 minute ago, Cya said:

It's this attitude that causes such divisions of society in the first place. When you label us and we label you then that just further separates us. We're all humans after all.

[Cya]

9 minutes ago, ForbiddenFruit said:

'Stop being so angry when people are legalising your harrassment, you're just as bad as they are'. It's easy for you to say 'we're all humans uwu' when you're not the one who could face 3 months in prison for taking a piss.

If I'm not mistaken Scalia is dead and the Supreme Court will most likely rule that this law is unconstitutional.

[ForbiddenFruit]

'cis people' isn't a label. In the context of people it literally means 'not trans', following standard nomenclature - cisappenine, transappenine. Cis fats, trans fats. Cis is a prefix. So is trans. Cis(gender) people. Trans(gender) people.

[spark]

15 minutes ago, Cya said:

I merely offered solutions where everyone is safe and gets what they want. Hell, if it's really about segregation then give the trans community their own bathrooms and make them as fancy as a Starsbucks bathroom. Marble and granite tiles and all that jazz. I mean the Democrats love wasting money so why not?

[Elfy]

6 hours ago, Cya said:

Hardworking Americans are losing their jobs due to a corporation that doesn't even value their customer or protect them. Wait another five years and you'll see how great UBER is when all UBER cars are self driven and no jobs remain. Is that American enough for you?

It is off topic but I don't really want to get involved in an argument that is getting too heated except to say... Why do you think Uber will get self-driving cars but regular taxi's won't?

I'm no expert on Uber's, I'm not even sure they exist in this country, but I have heard of them. Aren't they just a private taxi service? Because we have private cabs here and I can't say I've experience, nor do I know anyone who has experienced, much in the way of different quality service from regular black taxi's and other cabs from private companies.

Now there might be something I don't know about Uber and how they operate because I haven't looked into it too strongly but it seems like it is just competition from regular taxi's from where I sit.

---

Anyway, just a reminder for everyone to keep things civil no matter what the other person's viewpoint. Nobody has really crossed any lines here that I've seen, just a pre-emptive reminder

These rights for transgender people and LGBT people in general that have been getting a huge amount of publicity and advancement over the last few years is really our generations civil rights fights. Took a long time to get to this point where we are now and we have to remember that not every problem is easily solved. Sometimes, even if there is an easy solution you still need to win around the court of public opinion. Public opinion isn't changed by shouting at them or being angry (angry at the situation is fine, angry at people won't change their minds and will charge harden their opinion.)

[willnotwill]

5 hours ago, ForbiddenFruit said:

'cis people' isn't a label. In the context of people it literally means 'not trans', following standard nomenclature - cisappenine, transappenine. Cis fats, trans fats. Cis is a prefix. So is trans. Cis(gender) people. Trans(gender) people.