What Kills A Story For You?

[Sir Stinkypants]

Realism is relative. Grown people who are attracted to wearing diapers are fairly rare, those who enjoy dealing with changing the used diapers of others are rarer still. As someone who is firmly entrenched in both camps, I have less difficulty suspending disbelief on these matters than some others. The teenage or young adult’s mom who wholeheartedly embraces her child’s regression to infancy and takes some sort of nostalgic pleasure in diapering him again is a little harder to swallow. Don’t get me wrong, I understand that this sort of acceptance and complete regression to childhood dependency is the fantasy of many, and I have enjoyed a few stories that went this way, but it is difficult to sell.

I dislike forced diapering/regression as a concept. I dislike being forced to do anything, and I doubt very seriously anyone here has ever had to be forced to wear diapers (save by medical necessity) or play the part of a baby. Why is this idea so appealing to so many people? That said, I have enjoyed a few tales of this sort, but it is definitely not my bag. Not that big on humiliation, either... Dominance can be fun, but...

On the other hand, I do like some things that others have complained of on this thread: 

I like mixing sex with diaper play and or adult baby themes, both in real life and in stories. If that’s all a story is, it could definitely be quite hollow, but I have jokingly referred to my own work as “pamper porn,” and I make no apology for it. While I myself have a broader emotional relationship with my adult baby persona than that, and my writing reflects this, ABDL is a turn-on or “kink” to many people here, myself included. Different strokes for different folks. I will add that I have enjoyed many stories with no sexual content at all...

I like messy diapers and pooping, in life and in stories. Unlike those who complain about it, I find a narrative featuring someone playing the role of a baby in diapers where this matter is either relegated to potty exceptions or avoided altogether to be kind of hollow. Shit happens, and it isn’t glamorous; I understand it is not everyone’s bag, so I do not judge, but I for one like it...

It is as I said in my previous post, there is quite a variety in tastes and interests in this community, and these stories reflect that. It is as it should be. If you don’t like it, read something else...

I do not have the problem with bad grammar, typos, inelegant prose, spelling errors,  and bad formatting that others have taken such exception to. These things can be annoying, but if a story is good, I can read past a lot of writing issues, just as long as the meaning is reasonably clear... maybe I’m weird (actually I guarantee it), but I am pleasantly surprised by the quality of the writing I most often see here. We are amateurs, writing free stories, what do you expect?

[WBDaddy]

On 9/6/2021 at 9:10 PM, spark said:

The key is setting it up in such a way that you're invested in the character when it happens, and it pushes the story,  

Yep.  The #1 mistake I see ABDL writers make - they don't develop enough backstory to make us care about the MC before they throw them into diapers and all sorts of other demeaning things. 

[TestAccountPleaseIgnore]

To add onto the discussion about believability in stories, I thought I would add my favorite video on the topic.

1:47 to 4:34 is the most relevant.

This is a topic I'm interested in, so please excuse me for treading some old ground.

I think the problem that many writers for ABDL run into is that the act of wearing diapers is not inherently fantastical like super heroes or even urban fantasy. With most genres that are used for wish fulfillment or fantasy, there is a built in aspect that delimits it from reality while still allowing elements of reality.

When a story sets up a high school girl in Anytown, USA, adding diapers by itself does not create a secondary world in the mind of the readers, which tightly couples characters to reality. Thus limiting the possibility space of believable actions and reactions. This can be resolved with further world building, however the process is both lengthy and difficult.

I think this is in part why alternate settings are so popular, the suspension of disbelieve is presupposed by reader and author alike.

For authors who wish to focus more heavily on fetish elements that exists outside of realism, I think it is important to signify this to audience though techniques like lamp-shading.

I've enjoyed reading the discussion here, and it certainly has caused me to reflect of my own work.

[Apache Raccoon]

Anything relating to the Diaper Dimension kills a story for me: baffles me how anyone can stand to read that garbage: maybe they're all on LSD.

Short fap stories bore me to tears: random woman meets hot guy, she puts on diaper then sex THE END

I hate anything written in the 2nd person perspective.

I hate anything that's a massive wall of text with no paragraphs: don't mind the odd spelling mistake or grammatical error but wall of text is an instant click off for me.

[DiaperboyEddie12]

14 hours ago, Apache Raccoon said:

Anything relating to the Diaper Dimension kills a story for me: 

@Apache Raccoon what do you mean by the bold text?

[Apache Raccoon]

14 minutes ago, DiaperboyEddie12 said:

@Apache Raccoon what do you mean by the bold text?

I wasn't aware of any bold text: I don't see any bold text on my post.

 

Must be some weird error or something.

[DiaperboyEddie12]

9 minutes ago, Apache Raccoon said:

I wasn't aware of any bold text: I don't see any bold text on my post.

 

Must be some weird error or something.

@Apache Raccoonin my quote to you I bold the text so I can understand more.

Diaper Dimension kills a story for me: 

 

[Apache Raccoon]

12 minutes ago, DiaperboyEddie12 said:

@Apache Raccoonin my quote to you I bold the text so I can understand more.

 

Diaper Dimension kills a story for me: 

 

Oh I see what you mean, sorry.

I just don't enjoy diaper dimension stories, it's an interesting idea but I like something realistic over a "fantasy" type setting and most of the concepts of it I just find really lame and annoying and eye rolling.

[ValentinesStuff]

5 hours ago, Apache Raccoon said:

Oh I see what you mean, sorry.

I just don't enjoy diaper dimension stories, it's an interesting idea but I like something realistic over a "fantasy" type setting and most of the concepts of it I just find really lame and annoying and eye rolling.

I agree, one big thing I can't understand is how the "Earth" governments are allowing hundreds if not thousands of their citizens to be kidnapped, tortured, and experimented on without doing anything to stop it, and seem to be actively aiding that in some stories.

[DiaperboyEddie12]

@Apache Raccoonwhat is Diaper diamenion?

[Apache Raccoon]

19 minutes ago, DiaperboyEddie12 said:

@Apache Raccoonwhat is Diaper diamenion?

It's a genre of ABDL story.

It's a kind of alternate universe type thing which often has big amazon women and monsters and stuff.....

I don't know how to explain it but here's a link to a bunch of stories on ABDL Story Club

https://d.abdlstories.club/c/stories/diaper-dimension-stories/70/none

[DiaperboyEddie12]

@Apache Raccoon thank you.

[ausdpr]

The Diaper Dimension was a setting created by Princess Pottypants in her story Alisa's Adventures in the Diaper Dimension

Due to thinking naughty thoughts while connected to scientific equipment, she accidentally opened a portal to another universe where all diaper stories are true at once. It's not a place which is necessarily meant to make sense or be logical, and anywhere you go in that world/universe would be a place where another ABDL story is occurring. That means giants, because they feature in some stories, also very short people who get mistaken for their age, which is another common theme. Also magic, advanced science, body transformation, hypnotism, etc.

[DDude25]

Baby talk and when realism is thrown out the window for a fap session

[lil_stinkie]

not enough detail, i have read whole stories that went exactly like

Quote

you poo your nappy

it stinks

mummy changes you

you giggle

while its a very good template, i need more substance to keep my attention. When i read stories, i want to read about actual people with real emotions and personalities.

also extreme sadism or overly sexual themes, but that's a personal preference. i like to read these as if i am a little, and they ruin my vibe. i get that they have their place in abdl fiction.

 

[ValentinesStuff]

ABDL stories that aren't really ABDL. If I can substitute Latex, Leather, Lingerie, or even Boxers for the Diapers and not effectively change the story it's not an ABDL story, it's a generic fetish fap story.

[spark]

I'm assuming that this doesn't relate to story that i'm immediately not interested in.  No offense to the authors here, but a majority of the stories on this page don't hold my interest.  I'm not big on fantasy stories, sissy stories don't hold my interest.  I also want to read about diapers.  If I start a story and I don't see how diapers will relate to it, I search the word diaper, or nappy, and if it is not there, I pass.  I also pass on poorly written text, with blocks of text, especially when dialogue is included.  But those elements don't kill the story for me, because there was nothing there.

It is easier to talk about what I like in a story.  For me- it's a main character that is broken in some way.  Either loneliness, bullying, or abuse.      There is usually a caregiver who comes in to help them, but in the case of some of them- it can be them finding something through the regression.

Every once in a while I'll get a story that catches my interest, but then there is something that the author does that puts me off.   The biggest thing that will kill a story for me is when I think the protagonist situation is hopeless, especially when the antagonist is 

[Babypants]

While there are a few settings in fiction where atmospherics trump both plot and character (Lovecraft), and plot can be the centerpiece (Agatha Christie), the vast majority of fiction is centered on the characters given narrative POV.  The vast majority of the stories posted here fail to reach the level of erotica for the reason that WBDaddy earlier emphasized on this thread-- inadequate character development.  This is the yawning trap in fetish literature, because it is natural to want to center the tale on the fetish itself.

To make the leap from pornography to erotica, a primary character's actions must seem plausible to the reader, and it takes time and effort to flesh out a character to this degree.  Take the commonplace trope of a girlfriend/wife demanding that her boyfriend/husband wear diapers when he has hitherto exhibited no interest in doing so.  And he submits!  We all know that this is unrealistic, and there is only so much suspension of belief that a reader can endure.  The answer, of course, lies in the backstories that very few characters on this site ever receive.  What in the character's life history would set him up to say "I'll do it" when we all know that the response in real life is gonna be "hell, no?"  Answer this question beforehand, and the problem simply goes away.

There is quite a bit of talent on this site, but there are very few writers here who are giving their talent the platform that it deserves.  When you are writing, keep coming back to the question of "why."  Why does my main character have an interest in diapers or want to be treated like a baby?  Why would he submit to so ridiculous a request or demand on the part of her/his significant other?  Why?  Why?  Why?     

[ValentinesStuff]

On 2/28/2023 at 3:53 PM, Babypants said:

While there are a few settings in fiction where atmospherics trump both plot and character (Lovecraft), and plot can be the centerpiece (Agatha Christie), the vast majority of fiction is centered on the characters given narrative POV.  The vast majority of the stories posted here fail to reach the level of erotica for the reason that WBDaddy earlier emphasized on this thread-- inadequate character development.  This is the yawning trap in fetish literature, because it is natural to want to center the tale on the fetish itself.

To make the leap from pornography to erotica, a primary character's actions must seem plausible to the reader, and it takes time and effort to flesh out a character to this degree.  Take the commonplace trope of a girlfriend/wife demanding that her boyfriend/husband wear diapers when he has hitherto exhibited no interest in doing so.  And he submits!  We all know that this is unrealistic, and there is only so much suspension of belief that a reader can endure.  The answer, of course, lies in the backstories that very few characters on this site ever receive.  What in the character's life history would set him up to say "I'll do it" when we all know that the response in real life is gonna be "hell, no?"  Answer this question beforehand, and the problem simply goes away.

There is quite a bit of talent on this site, but there are very few writers here who are giving their talent the platform that it deserves.  When you are writing, keep coming back to the question of "why."  Why does my main character have an interest in diapers or want to be treated like a baby?  Why would he submit to so ridiculous a request or demand on the part of her/his significant other?  Why?  Why?  Why?     

My only change to this would be the word beforehand. The reader does not need to know why the protagonist accepts this beforehand, but the reader does need to know by the end of the story. 

[spark]

27 minutes ago, ValentinesStuff said:

My only change to this would be the word beforehand. The reader does not need to know why the protagonist accepts this beforehand, but the reader does need to know by the end of the story. 

I know it's lazy, but it's perfectly valid that the protagonist just likes diapers.  There is also the gradual acceptance of dependence that can logically occur.  But if the 'why is this guy allowing this?' question not answered, it's not a great story.

[Babypants]

1 hour ago, ValentinesStuff said:

My only change to this would be the word beforehand. The reader does not need to know why the protagonist accepts this beforehand, but the reader does need to know by the end of the story. 

Structurally, there are two basic approaches that can be deployed here.  The first is a biographical dump in the opening pages of a work, which is the traditional mechanism employed by authors writing from a single narrative POV.  The second tactic, common in stories with two narrative POV's, is to have a character emerge as the story progresses through reveals-- flashbacks that are occasioned by something happening in the story's present tense.  Do you see why epic, which means three or more narrative POV's, is so difficult to write?  Very, very few professional writers are up to this challenge.  James Clavell was an absolute master of the epic format;; his Noble House is a literary masterpiece.

It should be stressed that there are real risks associated with using flashbacks, and the risks increase exponentially the longer it takes for the author to pull the trigger.  There is a danger that some of the bases will never be covered, and an equally great danger that the reveals will be so compressed that they strike the reader as an afterthought rather than an integral part of the story.  In short, a dump at the end of the story is far more awkward than even the most pro forma of dumps in the opening pages.

Independent of the "why" question, there is also a "where" question.  On this site, stories that describe the setting in which the action takes place in any degree of detail are rare in the extreme.  This is important because without a detailed setting, there is nothing in a story to trigger a flashback except dialogue-- and going down this path too often gets real old, real fast.

1 hour ago, spark said:

I know it's lazy, but it's perfectly valid that the protagonist just likes diapers.  There is also the gradual acceptance of dependence that can logically occur.  But if the 'why is this guy allowing this?' question not answered, it's not a great story.

Agreed, but unless you believe that every protagonist likes diapers for the same reason (a monocausal explanation), then it follows that any given story will be enriched by exploring the emotional, psychological or even historical dynamics that apply to each, uniquely individual protagonist.  And to twist this even more, there is no inherent reason why a character at age 20 would like diapers, and at age 50 still like them for the same reason.  This is a can of worms that writers try to avoid by limiting the time frame within which the story unfolds.

[ValentinesStuff]

1 hour ago, Babypants said:

Structurally, there are two basic approaches that can be deployed here.  The first is a biographical dump in the opening pages of a work, which is the traditional mechanism employed by authors writing from a single narrative POV.  The second tactic, common in stories with two narrative POV's, is to have a character emerge as the story progresses through reveals-- flashbacks that are occasioned by something happening in the story's present tense.  Do you see why epic, which means three or more narrative POV's, is so difficult to write?  Very, very few professional writers are up to this challenge.  James Clavell was an absolute master of the epic format;; his Noble House is a literary masterpiece.

It should be stressed that there are real risks associated with using flashbacks, and the risks increase exponentially the longer it takes for the author to pull the trigger.  There is a danger that some of the bases will never be covered, and an equally great danger that the reveals will be so compressed that they strike the reader as an afterthought rather than an integral part of the story.  In short, a dump at the end of the story is far more awkward than even the most pro forma of dumps in the opening pages.

Independent of the "why" question, there is also a "where" question.  On this site, stories that describe the setting in which the action takes place in any degree of detail are rare in the extreme.  This is important because without a detailed setting, there is nothing in a story to trigger a flashback except dialogue-- and going down this path too often gets real old, real fast.

 

Who said anything about using flashbacks? I detest flashbacks, they are one of the laziest forms of writing. You can provide backstory during the narrative without using a flashback, simply through dialogue and the described feelings of the characters. 

[ValentinesStuff]

3 hours ago, spark said:

I know it's lazy, but it's perfectly valid that the protagonist just likes diapers.  There is also the gradual acceptance of dependence that can logically occur.  But if the 'why is this guy allowing this?' question not answered, it's not a great story.

True, but sometimes the answer to 'why' is because the guy likes it and always has. I mean I'm an AB and recognize signs that I have always been one. I don't know why, so in an autobiography I could not truly answer the question of 'why'. 

I can accept that as a reason, after all it describes me. I can even accept multiple ABs in a story if there is a logical reason for that to happen. They met online, they met a munch or other event, whatever. Again this happened to me, I initially met one of my best friends through an AB forum online. I do have a problem when half the neighborhood is made up of ABs and the other half doesn't care about them playing out in public.

There are usually also two why's to answer. Why is the protagonist allowing it to happen and why is the antagonist doing it. The second one is often left unanswered even more. Also why a secondary antagonist goes along is so rarely answered. For example the MIL hates her son-in-law and through some means infantilizes him, and the loving wife just goes along with it. No reason given really for why any of them do this.

[Babypants]

10 hours ago, ValentinesStuff said:

True, but sometimes the answer to 'why' is because the guy likes it and always has. I mean I'm an AB and recognize signs that I have always been one. I don't know why, so in an autobiography I could not truly answer the question of 'why'. 

I can accept that as a reason, after all it describes me. I can even accept multiple ABs in a story if there is a logical reason for that to happen. They met online, they met a munch or other event, whatever. Again this happened to me, I initially met one of my best friends through an AB forum online. I do have a problem when half the neighborhood is made up of ABs and the other half doesn't care about them playing out in public.

There are usually also two why's to answer. Why is the protagonist allowing it to happen and why is the antagonist doing it. The second one is often left unanswered even more. Also why a secondary antagonist goes along is so rarely answered. For example the MIL hates her son-in-law and through some means infantilizes him, and the loving wife just goes along with it. No reason given really for why any of them do this.

I fully agree with your last paragraph here.  An author who skips over the motivation of the primary characters, not just the protagonist, is advancing a plot that has no foundation.  And it doesn't help that the plot is sometimes unfolding in a setting that glosses over legal and other realities.  Randy Wayne White hit the proverbial nail on the head in the first sentence of Bone Deep's author's note: "I learned long ago, whether writing fiction or nonfiction, an author loses credibility if he's caught in a factual error."  Amen, and forever more.

[spark]

On 3/1/2023 at 10:51 PM, ValentinesStuff said:

There are usually also two why's to answer. Why is the protagonist allowing it to happen and why is the antagonist doing it. The second one is often left unanswered even more. Also why a secondary antagonist goes along is so rarely answered. For example the MIL hates her son-in-law and through some means infantilizes him, and the loving wife just goes along with it. No reason given really for why any of them do this.

The bolded part is something that will kill a story very quickly for me.  If it's otherwise well-written, I'll continue to read. it.   There are a couple of stories out there that follow that exact plot, and it is just not realistic based on the universe that was presented.   I won't name those stories because they aren't on a paid site, but I'll name one that is available on KIndle,, since the author is collecting money for them.  Sarah's New Life is a story that doesn't really give a reason for the main character to allow that.  In that story, the mother and sister are just mean to a grown adult for reasons, and end up forcing her into a completely infantile status.  There were no reasons really given for the motivations for these, other than just contempt by the ENTIRE family.  I'll admit, I read the full story, but IMO, it was seriously flawed.

I recently wrote a story that may have the same issues in that regard.  Diapers For Chris is about a 45-year-old male who was made to wear diapers by his wife because she was frustrated with his immaturity.   Prior to the episode, he never did wear diapers, and realistically would have resisted his wife's attempts to infantilize him.   But in that case- it happened because it was his best option.  Leaving his wife would mean living a pathetic lonely existence, and he did have some regressive tendencies that were uncovered with the treatment.  I'll agree that most older men are horrified by the thought of using a diaper.  There is a reason the men are reluctant to get a prostate removed.   However, that's not necessarily the case with the audience who reads AB/DL literature.

The introduction of other AB/DL characters in a story can be an issue.  The story that there is suddenly a whole group of friends who all end up liking diapers is just not realistic. However,  I find it sometimes helpful to introduce another little when I write a story.   Writing and reading diaper stories is cathartic for me.   It helps me process the whole experience with the desire to wear a diaper.   It can be isolating if there is only one regressive character in a story, which I don't always find cathartic.  It's sometimes necessary to introduce other diapered characters or even a whole community of littles.