12 Dead, 58 Wounded In Colorado

[Guest *~Andi~*]

i agree with you completely but the fact that some person would sit down and take the time to make this picture that is the pathetic part. They werent trying to literally point out that the guy is being labeled with mental illness, they are pointing out that hes getting it cuz hes white. Which is pathetic. IDK... Maybe Im rambling, I was just pissed when I saw this. Its not about the victims, its not about the families who lost, its not about the senselessness of what happened... its about the color of the guys skin per this person...? Sadly thats been a trending topic too. I feel bad for ppl who cant get past the color of skin. sigh.

[Horndog]

The state of Arizona has very lax gun laws and issues permits for people to carry weapons....they also have the lowest crime rate in the country.

You exaggerated a little bit. Scottsdale, AZ has the lowest crime rate in the country, not the entire state of Arizona.

Says Wikipedia: "Crime rates vary greatly across the states. Overall, New England had the lowest crime rates, for both violent and property crimes. New England states also had the lowest homicide rates in the country."

You can't be serious. If you were to let everyone in with guns, it would be possible to easily co-ordinate an attack among a group. Everyone having guns doesn't remove the element of surprise. If twenty people pull a gun, what are the odds everyone's going to automatically know who pulled in the first place as opposed to shooting at someone who *looks* like they *might* be the loony? Step up security. Job done.

That's absolutely right. Giving everyone a gun doesn't resolve the problem. In fact, it exacerbates it.

[lilJester]

again, i have to side with ducky. you don't know who is carrying, so you don't do anything stupid.

[redneck diaper boy]

This guy will be tried, found guilty and then he will receive the death penalty. They cannot say he was crazy because he was working on a PHD. This guy is a terrorist by anyone's definition.

[BabyFergstar]

Last night a psycho went crazy in a town just a few miles away from mine...if anybody heard about it, a guy in a gas mask and body armor with assault rifles shot at civilians and cops last night in Pendleton, IN. It is literally 5 miles from where I live. We got off lucky - two human officers injured and one K-9 officer killed before the dick put one in his own head. Why couldn't Mr. Colorado have done the same thing?

[ForbiddenFruit]

They cannot say he was crazy because he was working on a PHD.

lol

[BabyFergstar]

I hate to say it, but ForbiddenFruit is justified in laughing at that..."crazy" no longer means the cartoon version of "crazy". There are plenty of mental disabilities to be argued that also allow a person to be mostly functional in society. I just hope the jury doesn't buy it.

[Bettypooh]

Well today's news says that he was being psychiatrically treated on campus before all this started Whether this continued after he left his classes I do not know. If the Psych thought he was an imminent threat they would have done something to prevent this, as per Colorado laws and much the same in most states This may have some bearing on the legal case, but here's how I see things: Like Charles Manson, this guy can never be allowed in public again or he will be immediately killed and most State laws prohibit releasing prisoners into imminently dangerous situations. Whether death penalty or life without release or him getting a dose of justice in public- this guy's life is essentially over and we won't have to worry about him anymore

Repaid1 said something about body armor which I'd like to address. It will not stop all bullets, just those from most common handguns. Crooks and gangs in NYC have been making their own equivalent vests for years using common materials so you can't stop them unless you've got something like I shoot (no comments on that either but it ain't teflon and it's legal) Even with that, would concealed carry laws have stopped this guy, or even slowed him down? Nope. Would restrictive gun laws have stopped this guy? Nope here too- nutcases will find a way to wreak their havoc, for that is their intent If I wanted to kill a large number of people I can do it in so many ways that you couldn't stop me, and I'd be using things you can buy anywhere which will never be made illegal The bottom line is that you can't stop all nutcases- they're a part of humanity and they will always exist. The best we can do without impinging on most people's freedom is what we're doing now There's a street festival near here today. I can steal a car, run over the sawhorses blocking the streets, and mow down at least 100 people before the cops gunfire kills me- of course I'd never do that but it makes my point.

I love the US Constitution, but I would make some exception to the 'cruel and unusual punishment' part for people like this I think the Commanche's had it right- stake him to an ant bed and let them eat him alive slowly for harming his own kind so badly Severe? Yes, but sometimes severity is truly called for as nothing less will make someone think enough to not do something this bad.

Bettypooh

[square_duck]

Thats why I'd like to see public punishment and executions come back. Of coarse that will never happen, especially here in California! I like the idea of stock sand pillories in a public square with a sign hung around the convicts neck describing the crime they are suffering for. OF have them help build and string the gallows they will be ultimately hung from..thats called a detourant and it makes people THINK before they try to do something similar....crime wise.

Psychological warfare works....and should be used in appropriate places..

And yes this guys life is very very over....and if he doesn't get the chair or other form of execution device used today (I like the firing squad myself) then he will be locked away (far away) in some mental nuthouse for the rest of his existance....and possibly wind up wearing diapers also....so theres a plus....if he happens to be a D/L

[ItchyTasty]

The state of Arizona has very lax gun laws and issues permits for people to carry weapons....they also have the lowest crime rate in the country. The psychology and thinking is simple, no one knows who is carrying what, and who is armed.

So no one wants to mess with anyone else because it could get them shot!

If itisn't broken, don't fix it...so if it works in Arizona....

Just saying....

The difference is in the UK(more so in England), we can't even carry ANYTHING to protect to protect ourself from attacks EXCEPT from a:

rape/attack/mugging siren alarm thing, like attackers will care about that.... it either will make them more mad or they will simply stamp on it underfoot to break it. Only can be de-actived if the ripcord is replaced or it runs out of battery life or is smashed to bits.

Out in the open, other people far away would think it's just another car alarm going off and ignore it, lets say you got attacked in a park on your own.

As for bullet/knife protection you can wear a stab proof and bullet 'proof' vest that goes under the clothing, but doesn't help at all if the attacker stabs/shoots you in the neck or you die of bleeding from a limb.

Wouldn't like to say if carrying a penknife with a NON-locking blade of less than 3 inches on the streets for say slicing up apples is still legal or not...

Used to be, might not anymore.

Even then the stupid UK law might imprison you EVEN if you used it ONLY against the attacker when your life was in danger of you being killed.

A large sized metal flashlight, as it's intended purpose is used to see in the dark. And ONLY if attacked by someone than you can use it agains't them as a method of self defense.

Even normal hard metal ball point pens can be carried for the intended purpose, as well as ONLY if someone attacks you, then you can defend yourself with it, however it's rather useless UNLESS you know some form of martial arts and use it on pressure points.

Eg: say some madman comes at the victim with a knife and tries to kill him/her, and the victim stabbed him in the leg/s to slow him down as the stupid UK law legally only wants victims to use reasonable force, but he bleed to death from his wounds.

The victim could go to prison from anything from murder to manslaughter depending on if there was enough witnesses and evidence to see it happen to prove the courts otherwise.

So in that situation either you run like the wind and hide(happened to me once from a gang of 20 or so people chasing me, couldn't fend off that many people). Fight them, but if they die you could end up in prison for half your life, or die.

UK sucks in that instance how they have banned personal use of tasers even and they are in the same class as firearms. And anyone caught with a taser( except the police or military) would face up to 10 years in prison.

[ItchyTasty]

Last night a psycho went crazy in a town just a few miles away from mine...if anybody heard about it, a guy in a gas mask and body armor with assault rifles shot at civilians and cops last night in Pendleton, IN. It is literally 5 miles from where I live. We got off lucky - two human officers injured and one K-9 officer killed before the dick put one in his own head. Why couldn't Mr. Colorado have done the same thing?

What if the sicko didn't take his own life, imagine how many more innocent people he would have killed.

And the police would have had to shoot him in the head otherwise, and head shots ain't easy unless close up unless they used a weapon with a scope of some kind.

[Rihanna]

......And the police would have had to shoot him in the head otherwise, and head shots ain't easy unless close up unless they used a weapon with a scope of some kind.

Excuse me, but that statement makes no sense. (Actually, both your above posts seem rambling.) In close encounters, a head shot is fairly easy without "a scope of some kind." Been there, done that.

Unfortunately, most of you in the UK have slowly given up ALL rights to any kind of self defence, including using knives, flashlights, baseball bats, etc for protection. That farmer that shot the BG's after 3-4 break ins comes to mind.

On a tangent, it's just stupid what Olympians had to go through to take firearms into London. I think it is true still that British/UK sport & competition shooters have to leave the country to practice.

Here in the US we can carry.

The theater and school shootings of the past couple of years would have had fewer casualties if those who wished to had been carrying. Stupid lawmakers seem to want to disarm us in certain venues, while the bad guys don't care or obey the laws.

[ForbiddenFruit]

Are we seriously going to have to go through this again?

1. Giving everyone guns automagically takes away his body armour and element of surprise, right?

2. Just because you have a gun doesn't mean you constantly expect to use it calmly with concentration.

3. Let's see you shoot straight on tear gas with people all around you screaming and firing off.

4. I wish I could embed, but

[Rihanna]

Are we seriously going to have to go through this again?

1. Giving everyone guns automagically takes away his body armour and element of surprise, right?

2. Just because you have a gun doesn't mean you constantly expect to use it calmly with concentration.

3. Let's see you shoot straight on tear gas with people all around you screaming and firing off.

4. I wish I could embed, but

Yes, as long as people like you keep bringing it up.

4. What does that video have to do with this. (so far civil,) discussion?

1. That sentence makes no sense. We do NOT "give everyone guns." We must pass a federal background check before PURCHASING any firearm! Local, more strict laws may apply. Obviously, the bad guys don't care about laws and get theirs as stolen or (same thing,) "off the street."

1B. What is "Automagically" taking away body armour and who are you talking about, the good or bad guys?

1C, most of us law abiding citizens can purchase "body armour." Again, the BG's will get it by any means.

1D, What element of suprise? The good guy still has it as the BG doesn;t know. I've cited Florida before. When they became the 'first' 'shall issue' state, armed 'robberies' dropped by 50% or more as the BG's didn't know who to target. There was a major upswing in armed situations on cars, (somehow marked as 'rental,') leaving airports That stopped when the rental car plates/ID's were changed and with recropicity where law abiding citizens from other states can carry as soon as clearing safe areas. Major, major drop in incidents.

2. Using a gun "calmly with concentration" with no other training can be done with the right mindset, but usually requires some practice. As I've said, been there, done that.

3. Where do you even come up with this tear gas, shooting, & screaming stuff? I haven't, but know others who have done tear gas/Mace training and come out on top. Yes, both LEO's and civilians.

[ForbiddenFruit]

All my information is regarding the Colorado incident. As for the video, the allegory seems lost on you. If a large number of people were carrying guns in that situation, that's what would have resulted.

[Repaid1]

Sorry as former Military I have to argue, once the shooting started everyone was on the floor trying to hide, well the smart ones were, except the gunman, who was walking to and fro to find victims. Anyone with any training ( As those with concealed carry) would have postered in prone for a clear shot, be it foot, hand or head, let alone body armor. Even with body armor I can assure you it hurts like hell to get hit, enough so that it will distract you for a few moments for someone to get a kill shot. If two or more civilians would have been carrying, the out come would have been tragic, but not near as severe. And I can tell you a huge percentage of those with concealed carry are former Military or even active duty. The fact is simple if you make guns Illegal, only the bad guys have them. This guy had done nothing wrong with the law before so in that, he was a legal citizen and could have the weapons he possessed. You can't fix stupid, or crazy either. Weapons are weapons, had he brought some of the bombs with him he had boobie-Trapped his apartment with the outcome would have been far beyound what occured there.

Heck two pipe bombs thrown into the seats would have killed at least twice that and he could have walked away. And pipe bombs are easy to make, more so than getting a gun. Just say'n

[Rihanna]

All my information is regarding the Colorado incident. As for the video, the allegory seems lost on you. If a large number of people were carrying guns in that situation, that's what would have resulted.

Absuletly NOT. No it wouldn't have, and NO the video does NOT represent "what would have happened." There is NO "allegory" to be lost as you haven't made one. The video shows ping pong balls being set off by mousetraps in all directions. There is NO correlation to that even possibly happening in Colorado. As I have said and Repaid sort of backed up, anyone armed in that theater would have taken cover, looked for an opening for a clean shot and/or gotten out of there. NO, as you allege, bullets "flying everywhere."

Sighhhh... I like you, but it is hard to discuss US gun policies and laws with one who has little knowledge and appearently has never been here.

Please answer my previous questions.

Repaid, thank you.

[Rihanna]

... Agree with what I snipped.......And I can tell you a huge percentage of those with concealed carry are former Military or even active duty.

Have to argue or correct you there. Common citizens now make up the majority of legal carriers in the US.

...Heck two pipe bombs thrown into the seats would have killed at least twice that and he could have walked away. And pipe bombs are easy to make, more so than getting a gun. Just say'n

Hehe, in my day, making pipe bombs was a late high school, early college 'shop/machine' class requirement.

Hehe part II Didn't have much interaction w/military, but cops can be dangerous. A bowling pin represents "center mass." (Look up 'second chance bowling pin shooting,' yea the body armor co that started pin shooting.) We had cops and military come to our shoots that couldn't hit the broadside of a barn, much less the pins. Funny but sad they had no handgun skills.

[Repaid1]

Didn't say majority, a said a huge percentage and in that civilian and former military are classed the same. And things change when I joined the Marines we barely shot a pistol, however as you go up in the ranks and depending on your "job" it is your primary weapon if not secondary weapon. As it was mine.

Times change and I think if you look at our young guns overseas now, the sidearm is very prominent on most all of them and I trust they know how to use it very well. 30 yards and center mass!

[redneck diaper boy]

I don't care how smart soemone is. Anyone that goes to a theatre and shoots movie-goers is crazy. That person should also get the death penalty.