New Documentry About Infantilism Being Made...

[WBDaddy]

Well, in the year and a half I've been there, the biggest gripe I've heard from former members is usually the hair-trigger they have on banning questionable profiles.

[BitterGrey]

there's articles on wikipedia even that give a much milder and less sensational version than what is on shows like Taboo

I fear that I've spent too much time on Wikipedia to buy this lightly. One source (Cantor, Blanchard, and Barbaree) is cited nine times in the infantilism article. It includes the text "...infantilism [is] an autoerotic form of pedophilia." The article used to say this before the relevant section was weasel-worded.

Since this fringe theory is only supported by one group of authors, it lacks the independent support necessary for inclusion. Of course, this policy doesn't enforce itself, and I'm alone there, easily outnumbered.

To avoid negativity, we don't need to go into which is worse. However, we can make Wikipedia better.

[rosalie.bent]

You know, I think that in some ways, Stanly could have done us a favor. He really exposes some of the uglier parts of the fetish and AB issue. I put in a nice review of a new Medline product on another site, and got no response at all in 17 hours for the work I put into it. This was the type of pullup that so many people were looking for, with the padding that extended fully, the length of the product, like many of the store brands.

Instead, people wanted to talk about sticking marshmallows up their rectum, to induce an "accident". They wanted to talk about how "wonderful" it feels to be in a "wet, squishy diaper". Stupid is, as stupid does. And I think that perhaps half of those folks at least, have a problem that's probably worse than Stanly's. What in the World is wrong with "dry, and comfortable"? Well, that's my preference, the love for good hygiene, the ability to function, and the pride of being in complete control of my facilities. Not to mention, the thankfulness of people around me, for my ability to care for my own needs without depending on others.

Sadly, about half of the people who visit these sites, really don't represent us at all. Not the DL community, not the AB community, and certainly not those with disabilities or suffering from some form of incontinence.

I would argue that if HALF the people visit these sites then their views and positions are important and possible representative. One of the criticisms I am still receiving about my book is that it is 'not representative', but that is a subjective view. One of the problems is that people dont really know the ENTIRE makeup of the diaper community and think thattheir corner of it is all there is. No criticism to you, just an observation.

[rosalie.bent]

Probably one of the most hated "pockets" in this entire community - ADISC - you can accuse them of a LOT of things, but tolerating HNG's, stealth pedos, etc. just doesn't happen there.

they dont tolerate dissenting opinions very well either and seem to have a rather unhealthy demand that you provide you real birthdate - like thats going to happen!

[rosalie.bent]

I fear that I've spent too much time on Wikipedia to buy this lightly. One source (Cantor, Blanchard, and Barbaree) is cited nine times in the infantilism article. It includes the text "...infantilism [is] an autoerotic form of pedophilia." The article used to say this before the relevant section was weasel-worded.

Since this fringe theory is only supported by one group of authors, it lacks the independent support necessary for inclusion. Of course, this policy doesn't enforce itself, and I'm alone there, easily outnumbered.

To avoid negativity, we don't need to go into which is worse. However, we can make Wikipedia better.

I looked at wikipedia when researching my last book and the next one and Ive been unimpressed. Much of the info is incited, unsupported and contradictory. Mind you, most understanding of infantilism is at best fractured. When I think of knowledge, wikipedia does not come instantly to mind. Teh most use of have of it is giving me suggestions on related topics to research elsewhere.

[Leilin]

I would argue that if HALF the people visit these sites then their views and positions are important and possible representative

That would be the case if that half espoused the same view of the ABDL community. However, in my experience, they do not. Just about the only thing they DO have in common is that they think they represent the little world.

The true fact is that there is no "majority." At best, there MIGHT be a plurality, but the definitions of ABDL/Little vary so widely that anybody who THINKS they represent the community as a whole is invariably incorrect in that fact.

However, everybody's views in this are important, regardless of whether their views are in the majority or plurality that is most vocal.

[sarah_ab]

hahh you said plurality.. i thought you had said popularity and i was liek ohhh ohhh mee mee! thats meee!! im popular!!! then i realized it was pluarality and slowly put my hand back down....

[rosalie.bent]

That would be the case if that half espoused the same view of the ABDL community. However, in my experience, they do not. Just about the only thing they DO have in common is that they think they represent the little world.

The true fact is that there is no "majority." At best, there MIGHT be a plurality, but the definitions of ABDL/Little vary so widely that anybody who THINKS they represent the community as a whole is invariably incorrect in that fact.

However, everybody's views in this are important, regardless of whether their views are in the majority or plurality that is most vocal.

Actually you are right. One of the big false assumptions int he diaper world is that everyone is alike which they are most patently NOT. Ive received a real attack on FetLife over this single issue that I stated that there are very different sub-groups within ABDL that have almost nothing in common other than a diaper (and not even always that!). it seems that it is a real challenge to accept that the ABDL 'community' is actually a number of very disparate subgroups that march under the same banner but have very marked differences. I think that many of the more virulent arguments are actually derived from this problem. The community is very different, but we dont realise it.

[sarah_ab]

the only thing we have in common as a whole is diapers... an object some of us like wearing, some like using and some like seeing others wearing and using... anything else is just bonus... not much of a community there.. its not as if we are being oppressed, its not as if we are not being allowed to wear diapers, or buy diapers or have a relationship with someone who wears them or wants us to wear them..

where is the community? we are just a group of people who have an object in common...

essentially thats like saying every single person who enjoys watching baseball is in the same community... i mean sure in the most broadest sense they are part of the baseball fan community.. but to then have a particular person speak for alllll the baseball fans in the world is absurd....

yet somehow,, people here think they are qualified to speak for ALL the people who have some interest in diapers. Its abusrd and rediculous to think any one person can represent all the people who share this one interested....

[Leilin]

Well... as long as we all agree, then... XD

[sarah_ab]

no wait leilin.. come on... you arne't supposed to agree.. lets keep htis argument going.. agreeing is boring!

[Bettypooh]

Lets let the argument die. It's not much fun having to watch threads like this when you're a Mod trying to keep the peace around here

Of recent talk, yes the only thing we all have in common is the desire to wear diapers. Yes there are sub-sets in the community. And there are sub-sets in those subsets right down the line to individualism. What there is not is an attempt on many people's part to understand that their perspective only applies to them, and not to anyone else While this occurs with all sub-sets, it is most prevalent among Fetishists who mostly seem to want to keep their 'secret pleasure' hidden from the real world- and that's fine Nobody has the right to make you out yourself or to do that to you- but neither does anyone have the right to require that others remain in the closet if they want out If your message is different and you want it heard then you have to say it yourself.

The bottom line is this: You're not in control of anyone else, and if you do not like what they are doing then counter it or cease simply complaining about it where it is not going to counter (or count for) anything.

Bettypooh

[Leilin]

I respectfully disagree, Betty. I think that those of us who disagree with their actions, especially before they complete them, should voice our disagreement.

The problem is that the many, such as myself, feel that the problem is not the quality of the message being delivered, or the content of that message, it is the fact that people persist in trying to deliver it. Isn't it the definition of insanity to try to do the same thing over and over and expect different results in the process? What this "message" does is draw attention to something which is the business of nobody else expect the person or people who we sleep or play with. It is, in its very essence, a form of exhibitionism, and just like the people who are selfish enough to go onto public beaches in their diapers to satisfy their fetishes, it hurts us all because people don't end up getting ANY other impression of us, and won't because it takes a person unbalanced and selfish enough to do that to want to do it in public.

Now, does this represent us all? Actually, yes. Should it represent us all? Certainly not. People form stereotypes based on what they "know" and that is what they are spoonfed by these slanted, nearly slanderous shows which keep getting aired about us, portraying us as unbalanced, self centered, freaks because that is what sells. There is no show that will not portray us this way because it needs to be shocking and weird to sell. Those shows are what draws the attention of the trolls who continue to plague these communities and there's a bounce in them every time they go on air, in my experience. To put it succinctly, my disagreement is in the fact that they continue to go on air, not in the portrayal which they provide, which they have no control over and cannot be blamed for.

Now, can that disagreement go too far? Certainly, but it is going equally far when people claim that disagreeing with them is somehow a form of oppression. I can vehemently disagree with a person's actions while still supporting their rights to do whatever it is they do. That is how freedom works.

[sarah_ab]

ok one question, when i run for president in 2020 if somehow diapers come up.. can i affirm i do infact wear them for fun? i mean then i wouldn't be seeking out the limelight because of being an ab, rather i was in thelimelight for a completely different reason and it came up.. ...

I mean in that case, i can't just say 'no comment' because my platform is complete transparency.. i was thinking instead i could explain to them how by engaging in a satisfying sex life i will have less stress and my cognition will be sharper there by ensuring i make better presidential decisions.

[Diapered Jason]

Lets let the argument die. It's not much fun having to watch threads like this when you're a Mod trying to keep the peace around here

Nah

[Bettypooh]

Leilin, It is obvious in your previous posts that you neither want the world to know of your ABDL desires or for anyone else to expose the same in themselves. I mostly aimed my comments about not having the right to control others towards you in hope that you'd see the correctness in that. As to doing something again when you 'failed' before, well that's how you get better at things- it's called experience and it's a good teacher, albeit slow sometimes. With Stanley's 'message' I could only see it from my perspective and try to imagine how others would see it. I would not call it a failure, not would I call it the 'message' I'd like to see being given. It is, however, Stanley's message and he is one of us (maybe not you or me but part of the larger community anyway). He made no claims of it being anything else, only saying that there were many others similar to him which is true.

You say that it's good to make comments before something happens and I agree- but this has already happened and you're still commenting. Vocally and extensively too. There's something out of kilter there since there's no indication that Stanley is going for a third show yet. He didn't do what you wanted him to you either time and you still try to tell him what to do. And as to you not liking the 'message' and wanting a different one, then the only option you have is for you or someone else to craft the 'message' you want and go on TV with it. B!tching here does nothing good. The bar has been raised like it or not, and any 'counter-message' will now have to be televised to have an equal effect. Once again we can't control other people and the deed has been done and cannot be changed.

Your saying that you support other people's freedom to express themselves doesn't show here. What does show is you wanting everyone to stop letting the public know or see our ABDL sides because you don't want to show yours. That much is very obvious. I won't infringe your freedom to speak but based on your own words, you need to stop b!tching about Stanley. Silence doesn't mean support but it's high time you realize that your repeated message is failing to do anything but stir up messes that others have to deal with. As to the quality of shows like these, well I agree- most of commercial TV is trash and sensationalism but it sells because most people buy it. It's a business and in business and you compete successfully or die. The TV show I went on as a TG wasn't my choice of the best way to get my message across. I didn't like anything about it from host to format to network to content, but it gave me my only chance for the outlet I wanted to have so I took advantage of it, just as Stanley did. I doubted that I'd get any other offers for such a podium and I didn't. I hoped that if it all went well I could expand into other shows but it didn't go as well as I wanted so that didn't happen either. I see Stanley as taking advantage of the podium being offered just the same as me, and he didn't do too badly; maybe better than I did. Neither of us abjectly failed even if we didn't overwhelmingly succeed either. What we did achieve is to show the world that people are different and that it need not destroy us for being that way.

If you do not like what Stanley did or does then I challenge you to put someone else on TV that will send the message you want sent. If you're not willing to do that then you need quit complaining. You are not doing any good by your insisting to beat this dead subject to death over and over. You've not said anything new about it in a long time so unless you have something substantial to say that hasn't been said yet, would you please refrain from repeating yourself? It's getting to be more than annoying to many of us here. I've had to deal with reports about this thread and you as well as some others, that were all from people wishing the same thing I just stated. I have supported your right to speak by taking no action since no rules were broken and I will continue to do that but please do me and many others a favor and simply let go of this.

Bettypooh

[Leilin]

If you do not like what Stanley did or does then I challenge you to put someone else on TV that will send the message you want sent. If you're not willing to do that then you need quit complaining.

What does show is you wanting everyone to stop letting the public know or see our ABDL sides because you don't want to show yours.

If you truly continue to say this, Betty, then I regret to say you have not understood what I am saying. At all. Not even a little bit.

Their exhibitionism literally damages the ability for other ABs to come out on their own terms to the people who it should actually matter to, in my opinion.

While it should be done especially before the fact, after the fact it should serve as a warning, or an impetus, if they take it that way, to those who would continue to make this decision. The fact that some people take disagreement with their actions as a personal affront does not make it my fault that they do so. I have not levied insult at a single person involved in this, except to voice my disagreement, save one whose actions on this very forum have in my eyes merited that and who I will not bring up in detail or by name again. I have no issues with Stanley, or Riley, or any of the previous people to make this mistake.

I simply disagree with their actions.

And if you truly believe that is the reason why, I invite you to read my posts in more detail.

[DiaperPony]

To any cute girls out there wanting to go on TV, feel free to "expose" your ABDL side on Playboy, and don't forget to send some "messages" to your diaper.

[sarah_ab]

hahah yeah cause that doesn't come across as creepy. I was offered a room in the playboy mansion, but i felt i would rather work for the government and spend my saturday's doing overtime.. sides i didn't want the other girls to be jealous of how hot i am.

[belinda_sue_fox]

Why don't they own any coats or jumpers?

[Eir]

hahah yeah cause that doesn't come across as creepy. I was offered a room in the playboy mansion, but i felt i would rather work for the government and spend my saturday's doing overtime.. sides i didn't want the other girls to be jealous of how hot i am.

Sarah, congratulations for not accomodating pigs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I discovered my desire for diapers through working on a shy bladder solution. I have actually worn in public for fun, at night, of course. It is difficult to get past the paranoia!

I am working on a new link right now, it is a numerical sequence everytime I urinate, it will be readjusted. I am training myself to lose control of my bladder at the end of the sequence. I think it would be fun to wet diapers in public, I am not there yet!

[Bettypooh]

I respectfully disagree, Betty. I think that those of us who disagree with their actions, especially before they complete them, should voice our disagreement....

Note this and continue

....Isn't it the definition of insanity to try to do the same thing over and over and expect different results in the process?

Now here I see where Leilin continues to beat a dead horse getting nowhere further but she continues to beat it. Leilin, can you not see that you are doing the thing you say is "insane" when you see it in someone else? You are definitely intelligent enough to understand what you're saying, and I agree with this concept. I just think that you haven't looked inside at yourself deeply enough to see that you're judging others differently than you do for yourself. You've posted the same things here repeatedly;y to no further effect but you keep posting. Stanley has not done this, either here or on TV where he's appeared but twice. To compare the two based on this principle alone he is more sane than you are appearing to be. Is that what you want?

....Now, does this represent us all? Actually, yes. Should it represent us all? Certainly not. People form stereotypes based on what they "know" ....

Most people know that seeing only one person shows only their one side of things; it does not show any more than that. Most people do not think that because one person is a certain way that other people of that genre must be the same. Those who form an opinion of all based on one are not intelligent enough to understand their own selves, much less someone else and most people see that in them. You don't give people credit for having enough intelligence to understand that these creepy shows are designed to be like that- showing the sensational and not the normal- and while some of the less intelligent will be affected adversely by what they see there, most who had this as their first introduction to ABDL will not jump to the conclusion that we're all this way, which you seem to think they will. Especially in the age of the internet I highly doubt that Stanley was the introduction to ABDL for more than a small percentage of those in the overall world minority who watched these shows. You're making it seem bigger than it really is, and you're thinking it has adversely affected you when it hasn't.

I have read your posts in detail (and all the others here too). I understand what you're trying to say and I think most others do too. The problem is that you are not saying anything new anymore. And you're being blinded to some things by your own strong desire to not have ABDL out in public. I too want to keep this part of my life private but I can also see why others may not- and I have to give them every right to do as they please for me to have that same right to myself. I can only decide for me and not for anyone else. If I have tried to convince someone of my thoughts and they have not done as I wanted them to with them, I can let them go and I do. You do not understand that concept, nor do you understand that once something is out in the open, the only way to alter the ending is for you to operate out in the open yourself too. The stakes have been raised and if you want to stay in the game you must meet them or raise them. If you're not willing to do that then just fold your hand because doing anything else only disturbs those left in the game, gaining you a longer list of people who are going to be against you and your thoughts because of how you act more than what you think. You're not gaining allies anymore- in fact it's much the opposite.

As a Mod, and after seeing how much of a mess this thread is I am sorely tempted to shut it down. And I don't think my doing that would be rescinded either. But I can see that in discussing this there is hope for the ones here who do not understand the diversity of our little ABDL world and how well many, like Stanley, can do without having to hide. I can name many members here who are 'out' with this part of themselves with no apparent harm, not hiding but perhaps not 'advertising' as widely as Stanley has done either. In leaving this thread it becomes obvious that if you need to be out that far and that much, the world isn't going to immediately beat you to death, though there will be consequences for your actions. It also shows that you don't have to be 'out' to be ABDL. In that, and especially in Leilin's responses, I also see it showing that there are consequences for hiding that may not be apparent to the person doing it. How you see things changes what they are to you and how they will affect you. While I too wish to remain private with this part of me I don't expect everyone else to do the same. And in knowing that I want it private I also know that I must be ready to deal with my 'secret' getting out so that there is nothing to be gained by someone wishing to out me. If they do that I might look 'bad' to a few for awhile, but when it's over they will be seen as being a far worse person than me- which is the truth of that matter. I can now point to Stanley as someone far more extreme than me to show that my simply being DL isn't really a big thing at all.

Stanley has not harmed any of us even though he may be a more extreme example of ABDL than most of us are. So be it, this occurs in everything everywehre. And anyone who cannot understand that concept is someone who would not understand the less extreme ABDL's either so his going public has changed no changeable minds for the worse permanently. Stanley does make it clear that the concept that we must somehow be pedophiles is in error, and this myth has now been more widely dispelled so he has done us a lot of good there. I feel that is a very important message and perhaps the best place to begin trying to change the world toward having a better understanding of us. Stanley has also shown that there are people who can love us as we are which is another good thing. He also showed that this is not illegal or wrong; after all to have a powerful politician not be able to shut you down is a pretty big thing indeed to accomplish. If this were that bad of a thing Stanley wouldn't be continuing on this path where he is succeeding in his goals- even if they are not your goals.

So Leilin, you're really not seeing things as clearly as you think. You're ignoring that which you don't want to see, not following the same standards you set for others, and are letting your intense desire to remain hidden distort the things you do see. You can do far better than this, but will you? You're a good, intelligent, and generally perceptive person in many things and I want to add this topic to that list- I want to change you into someone who sees what I see in you because there is room for improvement in us all. I had to make similar changes in myself to get where I am now, and that has made my life better. That's what I want for you too. I wouldn't be spending my time on this reply if I didn't believe that I can change the world to a better place for us all. Care to join me in trying to do that?

Bettypooh

[Leilin]

Now here I see where Leilin continues to beat a dead horse getting nowhere further but she continues to beat it.

No, Betty. I am getting exactly what I want, which is discussion of this issue. I am doing what I do BECAUSE it prompts discussion on this issue, rather than a few people working in an echo chamber. It is patently unfair to accuse me of beating a dead horse when I have been responding in the case that you quoted to a post of your own that was addressed at me.

Most people know that seeing only one person shows only their one side of things; it does not show any more than that.

I disagree with this assessment of "most people," and I think you'll find that most black people, Catholic Priests, lawyers, sheriffs, and Muslims agree with that.

I too want to keep this part of my life private but I can also see why others may not- and I have to give them every right to do as they please for me to have that same right to myself.

This is a perfect demonstration of why you have inadequately understood my posts, and the point that I have been consistently making over time.

You don't give people credit for having enough intelligence to understand that these creepy shows are designed to be like that- showing the sensational and not the normal- and while some of the less intelligent will be affected adversely by what they see there, most who had this as their first introduction to ABDL will not jump to the conclusion that we're all this way, which you seem to think they will.

Read the youtube, somethingawful, rotten.com, or cracked comments on any article of which we are the subject and you will find that you are dead wrong. The people who say "Hey. That's not my thing but I don't care because it doesn't affect me" are in a very, very small minority. Is this amplified by the internet? Probably.

Edit: I see, on reflection, that the post that I was referencing may not have been pointed at me. If not, I apologize, but I will make my intentions clear:

1: When there is a thread about this, subject, I will post saying that I am against it, and why. Despite your consistent implication, this does not mean I think they should be unable to or disallowed to. It means I think that the decision to go on TV is not one that is well made under any circumstances, barring an incredibly unlikely huge shift in methodology by the involved production companies. I have been incredibly consistent in this view and I do not appreciate having words repetitively being put in my mouth.

2. If there are complete falsehoods posted in there (not usually the case) I will address them.

3. If there are posts addressed at me, I will usually respond to them.

[drynot]

One thing that constantly comes up with subjects like these is people always seem to worry about how other peoples decisions affect them. People here go on and on about how these types of shows damage the community and whatnot. Really? What community? Besides what we have here on the internet and the odd lunch or dinner 'munch' get togethers...there really isn't a 'community'.

I will admit. I just don't get it. To me...wearing and using diapers will forever remain behind closed doors. There are a select few individuals out there who know I wear diapers and all of them, with the exception of my wife, think it is due to medical reasons and that is where it will end.

So I need to ask...and I'm not being a wiseass here but here goes...

How does Stanleys decision or Bretts or even Riley's decision to bear their personal lives on TV in front of the whole world affect you....personally? How? I can imagine a couple of different scenario's where it might affect me...but only AFTER I have exposed this incredibly personal fact about myself. Anyone living in secret....which, really, is where this quirk should reside will NOT be personally persecuted at all........

[Diapered Jason]

Drynot, there is an old Navajo proverb that says "You can't wake a person who's pretending to be asleep". One thing I have noticed is these topics regarding people like Stanley or Riley are the most heated I have seen of any thread on this board. Trolls are going to troll, haters are going to hate. I don't see any reasoning in these threads, so I think it is deliberate or paranoia for the most part. I am just going to observe these thread types from a good safe distance and not get involved in one of their puerile arguments.