Anyone Still Support Obama After Ndaa?

[Diapered Jason]

I grant you that the government impact on prices has a detriment, this was not, however, my point. My point was that there is a flaw in the system, one which set us over the tipping point. Correcting it by pushing another tipping point, or by ignoring it completely, is not a viable or intelligent solution. The prices are a lag effect creating a cycle that increases them even more, if we trace it to the beginnings it was caused by the same effect in educational costs. Push it all the way back and the tipping point that started the entire chain reaction is actually even more inane than all of those, a lack of public education ... but not public education funding mind you. Basically, we stopped expecting teachers to teach and yet gave in to their demands for more money .... thus the higher institutions increased their prices as well, then they got subsidized to try to help the students, which resulted in the institutions increasing their costs more, eventually making schooling for doctors extremely costly. To recoup these costs they had to start charging more for things that cost very little, which lead to subsidies from the government to help patients, and then the administration at the medical facilities got greedy and started charging more knowing they could get more subsidies.

The solution will not be easy at all, not nearly as easy as the one grain of sand that created the mess. Because of so many aspects being intertwined (a result of an advanced society) a lot has to be unraveled at the same time in order to fix anything. This is why I don't like bandaid legislation, one thing Obama seems fond of. The key to solving these problems is the unraveling, and the reason Ron Paul would have been beneficial to finding a viable solution ... but that final hope is gone. We are spiraling out of control, with religious zealots trying to reduce education in many ways, politicians trying to skim as much as they can for their pockets, and unions taking advantage of statistics by altering their meaning, and greedy administration that is seeing people as gold mines. The irony though is that it's not the costs that are hurting patients, it's the doctors, man of which like to stereotype ailments in bad ways or even push patients to untested and unproven "cures" like homeopathy. Ironically, none of this is really because of insurance companies, which have been demonized to take eyes away from the more complex problem. People like simple, easy, and unintelligent answers, much like "god dun it", so they don't have to think about the matter. Health insurance is the far left's "god dun it" response, but the poor is the far right's "god dun it" response. All in all, we need to stop thinking in dichotomies and binaries, stop ignoring all the influences, otherwise we are just going to crash and that's a scary thought.

Here, I found this with a Google search, it may prove useful.

http://net.educause.edu/ir/library/pdf/ffp0005s.pdf

[redneck diaper boy]

Any time the government gets involved in something, the price goes up because the ones charging the money know that the elasticity has just increased. Look at school loans and the exponential rise in tuition.

Another thing, when you pay your own bills instead of insurance, you can often negotiate MUCH lower bills. Been there, done that, saved 60%. Also, take a vested interest in your own health, be your own advocate because so many people just take a single opinion as gospel and take the pill they are given. I've refused medications when the side effects where bad and the benefit was minimal. I rarely take an antibiotic because they can't help the cold or the flu. A virus can't be cured, it must run its course!

Also, insurance was never meant to pay for every little thing. It was developed as a way to keep catastrophic illness or injury from financially ruining you. Now, it has been expanded and bloated to the point that everyone thinks that someone else paying for their responsibility is a right. Don't even get me started on the 30 year Fluke that thinks we should pay her $3,000 so she can have sex in college! Birth control pills are WAY cheaper than that, maybe $10 every 4 weeks, $130 a year. You can probably get them at the health department for free!

Single payer is a mistake. There needs to be real, cross-state-lines competition for customer dollars. Health savings accounts puts people back in charge of how they spend their money and gets a tax incentive to do so.

Fluke has modified her stands since her numbers got looked at. Now she states that her was testimony was in the third person. Since when does Congress make laws bases on "he said, she said"? Now we learn that this college slut has been on a Europian vacation. Ill bet her vacation cost more than 3000 bucks!

[Diapered Jason]

Fluke has modified her stands since her numbers got looked at. Now she states that her was testimony was in the third person. Since when does Congress make laws bases on "he said, she said"? Now we learn that this college slut has been on a Europian vacation. Ill bet her vacation cost more than 3000 bucks!

Please refrain from using such coarse language directed at an individual.

[KittenAB]

Here, I found this with a Google search, it may prove useful.

http://net.educause....df/ffp0005s.pdf

Interesting paper, a bit more detailed than I was capable of pointing out. But cool beans. This does strengthen my point of a bigger picture needed to form some strong legislation that won't just deter the problem or even make it worse. So many factors, there is no simple fix.

[KittenAB]

If I hear Rush at all, it is only for a few minutes and I hardly hear him once a week. He is much more civil than Bill Maher, who is the most offensive to women that I've heard in a long time. The things he says about Sara Palin, Ann Coulter and Michelle Bachmann can't hold a candle to the spewings of Limbaugh.

I have paid for birth control pills and they are not that expensive, especially if it is generic and the 3 month pack. I do know that the health department in my area gives out birth control and it is not limited to condoms. You merely need to qualify. So, which part did I lie about? For goodness sake, at least act like it is real money and shop around for the best price.

Fluke is a 30 year old self proclaimed reproductive rights advocate, giving ancedotal statements, who intentionally chose to attend a Catholic school, which has moral and religious objections to birth control. With each right, comes a responsibility. If she wasn't hand picked to be the poster child for the cause, I don't know what is. At 30, she is far from the typical college student.

Rush thinks that evolution is a scientific conspiracy and that the disaster in Japan was "god's justice" .... par for the course of pundits, but pretty much the top of the rung. However, Bill Maher thinks that food can cure disease and that germs are biproducts of illness ... so yeah, he's a close second.

[baby vinny]

One interesting fact i heard this week is that since obama took office gun sales have soared to 1,000,000 guns a month and 750,000,000 rounds of bullets no these numbers are the us only. just an interesting fact

[KittenAB]

(Quote removed by Admin)

You know, we should see how many republican politicians are getting Viagra .... I'd wager most of them. Viagra has no alternative uses either, does it.

[Diapered Jason]

Rush thinks that evolution is a scientific conspiracy and that the disaster in Japan was "god's justice" .... par for the course of pundits, but pretty much the top of the rung. However, Bill Maher thinks that food can cure disease and that germs are biproducts of illness ... so yeah, he's a close second.

You can argue or compare all day about what either has said as I have not heard Bill Maher say those things. Certainly, both persons are very controversial; however, the issue that comes up is Rush Limbaugh is the speaker of the Republican Party, and he has spoken at the CPAC convention several times. He is the leader of the conservative movement and influences many Republican politicians. On the other hand, Bill Maher is a liberal, but he is not a Democrat and is not actively involved in Democrat politics. He does not have much influence in the Democrat ring or any other party. He is a stand-up comedian.

Since Rush Limbaugh is the speaker of the Republican Party, his actions are a reflection of his party. If you Republicans are smart, you would condemn this guy's actions, but none of you have done that, which does not reflect well on your party. That is why Republicans in general are receiving so much heat for Rush Limbaugh's 3-day tirade on women's health from the media, especially from MSNBC.

[BoTox]

You can argue or compare all day about what either has said as I have not heard Bill Maher say those things. Certainly, both persons are very controversial; however, the issue that comes up is Rush Limbaugh is the speaker of the Republican Party, and he has spoken at the CPAC convention several times. He is the leader of the conservative movement and influences many Republican politicians. On the other hand, Bill Maher is a liberal, but he is not a Democrat and is not actively involved in Democrat politics. He does not have much influence in the Democrat ring or any other party. He is a stand-up comedian. Since Rush Limbaugh is the speaker of the Republican Party, his actions are a reflection of his party. If you Republicans are smart, you would condemn this guy's actions, but none of you have done that, which does not reflect well on your party. That is why Republicans in general are receiving so much heat for Rush Limbaugh's 3-day tirade on women's health from the media, especially from MSNBC.

Ridiculous, the whole lot. Bill Maher donated $1,000,000 dollars to Obama's Superpac, which Obama said he wouldn't use a superpac! He hasn't told the truth about anything he has done. Maher has said such horrible things about Michelle Bachmann and Sara Palin that make Limbaugh look like a choir boy.

[Diapered Jason]

Ridiculous, the whole lot. Bill Maher donated $1,000,000 dollars to Obama's Superpac, which Obama said he wouldn't use a superpac! He hasn't told the truth about anything he has done. Maher has said such horrible things about Michelle Bachmann and Sara Palin that make Limbaugh look like a choir boy.

I will say one more thing about this as this is pointless, but I want to get my point across, lol. He donated to Obama's superPAC, because candidates like Rick Santorum really scare him, and he feels the 2012 presidential election will be very close. Many people seem to have an innate hate for Obama. One thing I will say in my opinion about this is I am glad he was open about this. If only more people were this opened about which candidates they give money. As for what Bill Maher has said about those people you mentioned, I have watched his shows and his comedic jokes were directed at those individuals and their party. He does the same thing to many politicians. I have also seen Rush Limbaugh's controversial 3-day tirade on women's health, and it is my opinion he went far beyond Sandra Fluke and touched on some things most women are very sensitive on. This goes far beyond the actual names used, but the whole topic was very defamatory towards women in general. What makes this worse is he has not really apologized for this. He tried, but he was too narcissistic to bring himself to apologizing. With all this said, I am shocked people are shocked about this and have actually made hours, perhaps days, of news stories out of this. He has been saying this same crap for years and we should expect nothing less.

[KittenAB]

You can argue or compare all day about what either has said as I have not heard Bill Maher say those things. Certainly, both persons are very controversial; however, the issue that comes up is Rush Limbaugh is the speaker of the Republican Party, and he has spoken at the CPAC convention several times. He is the leader of the conservative movement and influences many Republican politicians. On the other hand, Bill Maher is a liberal, but he is not a Democrat and is not actively involved in Democrat politics. He does not have much influence in the Democrat ring or any other party. He is a stand-up comedian.

Since Rush Limbaugh is the speaker of the Republican Party, his actions are a reflection of his party. If you Republicans are smart, you would condemn this guy's actions, but none of you have done that, which does not reflect well on your party. That is why Republicans in general are receiving so much heat for Rush Limbaugh's 3-day tirade on women's health from the media, especially from MSNBC.

This is why I say he's a close second, Bill Maher doesn't openly say it on the air, which is at least a point for decency. But he has voiced the idea on blogs and during lectures with the group promoting this notion, rather insane notion. But the notion that germs are because of (and not the cause of) illness is dangerous as well, though Rush has done more damage to the minds of more people, considering he's just completely insane and people take him seriously.

I am not Republican, where did you ever come to that conclusion? I hate all parties and will not support a party, I will only support a candidate regardless of their party based on their voting record and honesty. I did support Hilary even ... until she started the anti-video game bullshit at least, then I lost all respect for her. Right now I wanted Ron Paul, sort of like a reset button to unravel the mess and start rebuilding it from a lower point. But meh, that hope is long gone thanks to underhanded and dirty dealings of other Republicans. I could never support any of the other Republicans, not only are their voting records completely messed up, by they also lie about them all the time. Add in the obvious hatred for their fellow humans and you'd have to be a soulless and mindless wretch to support any of them besides Ron.

I also do not watch the news, all this is based on actual research, of course I have seen some of their ad spots and Rick Santorum made me vomit, so did Mitt Romney. However, I cannot support Obama either, and not because of one issue, because of his track record, and that's the reason I never supported him. Ironically I predicted he'd follow Bush's whole agenda from the start, and people only laughed. But look at what he's done, even the repeal of DADT was according to Bush's original plan. I knew because I saw his voting record and it fit with the record of Bush too well.

Politics is far more complicated than slogans and TV spots, and voters need to, as a whole, start paying attention before they vote. ALL voting records are public records, and there are several sites that even display them in neat little tables so you aren't digging through a lot of detail unless you want to. So before you even consider voting based on party, look at your candidate's voting record, it will surprise you, and possibly even frighten you.

[Diapered Jason]

I was not referring to you Kitten when I said "you Republicans", because I know you are not a Republican. I am not a huge supporter of Barrack Obama either, but I do not have that many choices. Certainly, I do not want someone like Rick Santorum in office.

[Leilin]

Ridiculous, the whole lot. Bill Maher donated $1,000,000 dollars to Obama's Superpac,

Yes. That automatically makes him a spokeperson for the DNC, amirite? Also, Obama should be impeached for this and Sarah Palin is automagically president for life now.

Do you even get why that is not on the same scope as Rush's position?

which Obama said he wouldn't use a superpac!

Firstly, do you understand how SuperPACs work?

Secondly, no he didn't.

He hasn't told the truth about anything he has done.

Talking about yourself in third person is an entertaining habit.

Maher has said such horrible things about Michelle Bachmann and Sara Palin that make Limbaugh look like a choir boy.

Irrellevant, since almost everybody knows that Maher is a douche and people who aren't possessed of three braincells to rub together or a remote modicum of critical thinking are invariably sucking continuously off of Rush's teat.

[Baby Brian]

WOW. Just.....WOW. I haven't seen this much bickering back and forth since we were all running around in diapers and acting like two year olds!

[Pampered_Cowboy]

i do not support Obama and hope he is not reelected.

[Bettypooh]

WOW. Just.....WOW. I haven't seen this much bickering back and forth since we were all running around in diapers and acting like two year olds!

This reminds me of a comment I heard from a guy who was stepping down from leading a hobby club. Of all he had to handle he said "I'm tired of dealing with people who act like 3 year olds!". That statement was true, but what he didn't realize was that he had been dealing with his own selected friends, and that the reason he couldn't handle it was that he too was just like them You can't be ahead of things when you're in the thick of them and nothing is ever resolved by arguing about it To be better you must rise above the other person, not go down to their level That takes maturity and I too notice a scarcity of it in this thread

Bettypooh

[Alexandra]

I said it once but I say it again please just let this forum die this will be decided on in the fall but the possibility of any sort of civil debate on this topic is long since dead so can't one side just be mature enough to capitulate and wait to see who the electorate names as the most deserving of being president

[Leilin]

I tried to explain myself three or four times, but the words would have not done justice. Suffice it to say that while I believe you are correct that the thread is not what would be called civil, I also believe that certain things merit the way things have been said in this thread.

Alexandra: That won't happen even after the election. Neither side is particularly good about that. Remember the birther movement?

[Alexandra]

I agree but it is a fools errand to try to teach thoose who plug there ears and close their eyes or to try to learn from one who does not understand

[KittenAB]

I was not referring to you Kitten when I said "you Republicans", because I know you are not a Republican. I am not a huge supporter of Barrack Obama either, but I do not have that many choices. Certainly, I do not want someone like Rick Santorum in office.

Aaah, okay, sorry for misreading it. It did offer me a lead into some other points I wanted to make anyway so it's all good I guess.

[Diapered Jason]

This reminds me of a comment I heard from a guy who was stepping down from leading a hobby club. Of all he had to handle he said "I'm tired of dealing with people who act like 3 year olds!". That statement was true, but what he didn't realize was that he had been dealing with his own selected friends, and that the reason he couldn't handle it was that he too was just like them You can't be ahead of things when you're in the thick of them and nothing is ever resolved by arguing about it To be better you must rise above the other person, not go down to their level That takes maturity and I too notice a scarcity of it in this thread

Bettypooh

Actually, I thought it was a good thread as I have learned quite a bit from it, and I encourage people to continue posting what they think about U.S. politics. I just think we should cut back on the defamatory language so we can have a clean debate on the issues. A couple of times, it went too far.

[BriGuy]

No matter what the arguments are !.It is still damn scary stuff and can only get worse .Just wait until they want to put micro chips in all citizens so they can track what you are doing at all times .Sounds crazy ? .Just wait !

They already do, it's your cell phone.

Meh, they are all crooked in DC. Washington DC has turned into a cesspool where he with the most money wins. Makes me want to vomit when I watch these political hopefulls get up on tv and promise the moon.

They only have their their own best intentions in mind.

[redneck diaper boy]

(Quote removed by Admin)

You know, we should see how many republican politicians are getting Viagra .... I'd wager most of them. Viagra has no alternative uses either, does it.

Viagra was first used to treat high blood pressure. It really got popular when the side effects were discovered. The lagrest single buyer of Viagra is Government Motors. That right. your bailout is paying for GM retirees healthcare plan!! My healthcare insurance does not cover Viagra but GM does!

[KittenAB]

Viagra was first used to treat high blood pressure. It really got popular when the side effects were discovered. The lagrest single buyer of Viagra is Government Motors. That right. your bailout is paying for GM retirees healthcare plan!! My healthcare insurance does not cover Viagra but GM does!

Funny that you would not see why your assertion about birth control is such a fail because of what I posted. If birth control is "only so people can have sex" ... then Viagra is a million times worse since it was created not only to help people have sex, but also promote it. Birth control has a lot of other purposes as well, you just want to tell women what to do though, and will not accept when the tables are turned.

[redneck diaper boy]

Funny that you would not see why your assertion about birth control is such a fail because of what I posted. If birth control is "only so people can have sex" ... then Viagra is a million times worse since it was created not only to help people have sex, but also promote it. Birth control has a lot of other purposes as well, you just want to tell women what to do though, and will not accept when the tables are turned.

I have a prescription for Viagra. I can get as much of it as I want. All I have to do is pay for it. The last time I bought it, it was about 18 dollars a dose. Anyone can go to the doc and get prescription for birth control or Viagra. Viagra is fun stuff to play with!

When I was a teenager, I had a policy of "no glove, no love"! I took the responsibility for my actions. This female agitator just wants to be accepted for her own irresponsibility. I never asked the taxpayers to pay for my Viagra or birth control!