Close To Incontinence With A Catheter

[Bettypooh]

Dear Bettypooh,

I think you are overcomplicating things by trying to start with a sterile item and modify it while keeping it sterile all through the process. The 'clean rubber bulb' for the 'glass blowing' style modification is certainly one of the things you can drop. Where do you get clean air to fill it with?

I'm not peeing on your parade here, just trying to put things onto a reasonable level of safe.

Oh, and while it is true, that people got seriously and even fatally ill due to silicon behaving badly, you should also mention that the majority of these cases had their boob jobs done in Thailand or Romania in the mid 90's, where you could walk into the hospital in the morning with $300 and out in the afternoon with C cups. Those were just marginally better than a tied-up freezer bag with old frying oil and the cleanliness standards mostly failed to hold up to a civil war field hospital.

There should be no internal sterility issue with the injected air for as soon as the cath is inserted, it would flush out whatever was inside it amd continue to do that, so using ambient room air should be safe- it's going to touch the catheter anyway I would not feel the same way about using exhaled breath like glass-blowers do, for we all know that is is very unclean

As to the issue of silicone problems, I am afraid you're out of touch. Backstreet injections are still harming people and may be even more prevalent than ever, at least here in the US In the last year there have been at least four deaths (and I'm probably underestimating this number) and many, many more medical emergencies from illegally injected silicone While that is certainly more invasive than this, and while it is also usually a more impure form of silicone, it is still a very valid danger to be careful of. Some of those deaths occured with very small amounts of very pure product which migrated through the bloodstream to vital organs where hey acted as a poison. If that organ is the lungs it is almost always death as a result It is widely discussed and known to be dangerous in the TG world, yet it is still quite common. I know many people who have had these illegal injections without problems, but just because many get by with it doesn't make it safe for everyone. Each persons tolerance for silicone in their system varies, and in the illegal injections no allergy or compatibility testing is done which is something the regulated medical world always addresses before proceding with such things That, and the impurity of much of the product being used ilegally, is the biggest danger here. Cured pure silicones are safer by far, but are still not totally safe for everyone. If there is way to more safely achieve the goal of creating the desired 'bump' then it would be wise to go that route instead I just don't want anyone here to have to deal with health problems they might have avoided over this, that's all. Past or present, silicone can cause health problems- on that I hope we can agree.

Bettypooh

[wetman]

Bettypooh, I must confess that I never thought about subcutaneous or intramuscular injections at all here. Going that way is already idiotic with Synthol, let alone Silicon, regardless of grade.

Implants was what I had on my mind, and they're rather safe these days, most of them containing no actual silicone any more anyway.

Apart from that:

I personally think that sterile manufacturing of the stent is overrated. Clean, yes, but keeping sterile? Any mishap during the process must result in a failure and you have to start again with all fresh materials. Why not work comfortably and sterilise later?

After all, that's how you treat your hands, too: You pull the weeds in the garden, empty out the cat's litter tray, wash your hands thoroughly, eat your dinner, wash your hands thoroughly twice, apply sterilising gel twice, insert your foley catheter. Just because it wasn't clean at some point doesn't mean that it can never be again.

I'm all against ramming a used catheter that you found in the hospital car park down your urethra using rat's spittle for a lubricant. But if we aim at Class10/ISO4 clean-room standards, we should stop this whole thing now, because we'll not achieve it.

I'm not quite sure why I'm actually interested in this; it might be my general fetish of medical appliances that one can be dependant on, because I don't actually need the stent: When I put on a nappy, I settle into a random unconscious wetting pattern within about 30 minutes (I suppose that is some kind of conditioning over the nearly 30 years that I've been doing this.). So for me, the unmodified catheter with a bag has more appeal than the stent. And that seems survivable.

Good luck, all.

[InD]

I agree that a complete sterile field is not a requirement. It's always easier to cleanse then keep clean. However during the moulding process I would want it be as clean as possible just so it doesn't become impossible to clean later.

Great points about the bonding to latex, etc.

I've actually already gone ahead and made a device a few days ago and have been testing it out. Based on a size 16FR red rubber catheter with a self-curring rubber from S ug ru (misspelled as we don't need google picking this use up ) Creating the two bumps was a pain, but worked well. I was able to keep the modified stent in for 12 hours with no problems. I've tested the adhesion of the rubber to the catheter and it held up under 20lbs of force with no problems. I would be concerned about long term exposure to wet environments (the bladder) so I will be soaking my creation in water for a few days to see what happens.

Of course my main concern is how safe is this product inside the body from a toxicity point of view.

Ah the things we do for this crazy fetish!

[wetman]

Hi InD,

this sounded rather interesting, only the stuff (I won't name as you don't like that) isn't regarded as food safe by the makers, so I think it might be a bit doubtful. Your test will most likely not kill you (If it did, please let us know as soon as possible) but I'd avoid frequent longer exposure.

What diameter did you use for the retention bulbs and what did you use for the retrieval tether? Are there any pictures?

I actually thought of going exactly the other way: using a single use suction catheter of the diameter of the retention bulbs and downsizing the diameter by careful heating and stretching to about 14FR, securely attaching dental floss for the tether and disinfecting the unit after assembly.

I've got no good idea how to position this properly, what did you use?

Sorry for the lot of questions...

[InD]

Wetman,

Their site states the product is inert, which is chemically important. As to food safe, they did say "isn’t certified as food safe yet, but we’re working on it.". I bet catheters are not certified food safe either Let's be honest, there is a high risk is what we are talking about here. This sort of play is not for the timid, nor the dumb. I'm very aware of what risks I'm taking and I accept them.

The retention bulbs I made too large, however I sanded them down after curing to 8mm (I can take up to a 24FR catheter, so 8mm is max for me at this stage). For the tether I used fishing line, I don't remember the strength, but probably around 15lb test. To be extra safe (ha ha) I tied one end of the fishing line to the outside edge of the catheter then measured out enough to reach outside of the body then doubled back and tied on to a second point. This redundancy is useful in case one knot slips, breaks, etc. I'm not sure what you mean by position? Where did I attach the line to? I used a sewing needle to go through the catheter if that is what you're asking

I do have photos, but not handy right now. It's pretty much what you see in the drawing I posted yesterday. Taking a photo is always a good idea in case you have to go to the ER

Your idea is interesting. I've never been good with heating and stretching stuff, too hard to replicate my work so I've avoided that. Let us know how it turns out.

Questions are awesome.

[wetman]

...

I'm not sure what you mean by position? Where did I attach the line to? I used a sewing needle to go through the catheter if that is what you're asking

...

InD,

it wasn't. No, what I meant was: how did you get this stent to the bladder? Pushing with another full lenght cath?

[InD]

To get the stent into the bladder I used a larger 22FR catheter to push the stent into place. I also experimented with using "Sounds", but found the catheter easier.

[Fakename4me]

Interesting...

How about 2 plastic beads lubed and pressed into a intermittent catheter to form the bumps? No glue or other foreign bodies to cause potential trouble. Once pushed into place in the catheter and the catheter rinsed out the elasticity of the cath wall would hold the beads in their place. And if the holes of the beads were aligned with the cath tube you would get flow....

[InD]

The plastic beads are an interesting idea. The problem is risk of the bead coming loose. You don't want to lose one inside of the bladder.

[nappyboymids]

Yes, noticed that he's not replied to anyone on the video page, but he is active on facebook, so maybe we'll hear something. I do wonder about the video though, there is a cut just after he has the stent almost fully inserted, next frame it is gone. I wonder if it is a fake.

I've been in touch with him on another site; he gave me the dimensions of the stent - the whole length is 95 mm, the inner ball is 12 mm and the outer is 13mm, 70 mm between balls. There's a bend towards one end to help to keep the whole device in place. The balls sound very big to me - I can't quite imagine how you would get the thing in - I wonder if they have to be that big? Although clearly you don't want things to move around once the stent is in place. Although it's meant to be permanent I wonder if you can't get it out again if a thread was still attached perhaps with the help of a magnet or something? Then there's the challenge of getting one made - Austmo didn't think he would be able to source any more as he had his custom-made ...

[Fakename4me]

The plastic beads are an interesting idea. The problem is risk of the bead coming loose. You don't want to lose one inside of the bladder.

The beads would be inside the catheter tube.... And I am thinking that the beads themselves would be too big to slide out the eyelets at the bladder end of the cath...

[InD]

I've been in touch with him on another site; he gave me the dimensions of the stent - the whole length is 95 mm, the inner ball is 12 mm and the outer is 13mm, 70 mm between balls. There's a bend towards one end to help to keep the whole device in place. The balls sound very big to me - I can't quite imagine how you would get the thing in - I wonder if they have to be that big? Although clearly you don't want things to move around once the stent is in place. Although it's meant to be permanent I wonder if you can't get it out again if a thread was still attached perhaps with the help of a magnet or something? Then there's the challenge of getting one made - Austmo didn't think he would be able to source any more as he had his custom-made ...

Ok, now I think this guy is full of crap. (the video guy, not you nappyboymids)

12mm = 36FR sized catheter

13MM = 39FR sized catheter

.... right. I mean there are a few select individuals who can get to 30fr, but they are very few and far between. I've been cath'ing for years and I can get up to 26FR with lots of stretching and such and that's only 8.6mm!! So yeah, I think these dimensions are off or the guy is lying to you.

[wetman]

Interesting...

How about 2 plastic beads lubed and pressed into a intermittent catheter to form the bumps? No glue or other foreign bodies to cause potential trouble. Once pushed into place in the catheter and the catheter rinsed out the elasticity of the cath wall would hold the beads in their place. And if the holes of the beads were aligned with the cath tube you would get flow....

You must be using very different ISC catheters. Mine were never elastic as such, but rather flexible. But I like the approach to modify one of them nonetheless.

The plastic beads are an interesting idea. The problem is risk of the bead coming loose. You don't want to lose one inside of the bladder.

While I can totally agree to not wanting to lose a bead in the bladder, I think that could be avoided by running the tether through them

[nappyboymids]

Ok, now I think this guy is full of crap. (the video guy, not you nappyboymids)

12mm = 36FR sized catheter

13MM = 39FR sized catheter

.... right. I mean there are a few select individuals who can get to 30fr, but they are very few and far between. I've been cath'ing for years and I can get up to 26FR with lots of stretching and such and that's only 8.6mm!! So yeah, I think these dimensions are off or the guy is lying to you.

I think the principle of the device is sound though - and pretty much the same idea as the beads idea that's running at the moment. So the question is, what is the right size for the balls? I've been cathing regularly for a couple of years now and can comfortably take an 18Fr. Any views anyone? I guess there's going to be variation from person to person in any case ...

Oh, and I may have found a company willing to make this - at least they claim to be able to do custom work based on ideas and sketches. But I don't want to approach them until I'm sure about the sizing. This company makes a variety of steel sex-toys and several of their penis plugs have diameters of over 10mm - so *someone* must be able to use them - although I confess I find the prospect somewhat eye-watering!

[wetman]

The sizing will indeed, I think, vary wildly per person; and it will have to fit. Too big, and you can't get it in, too small, and there's a chance of movement out, or more problematic, in.

The steel idea is good for cleaning and reusing and it's all one piece, but I don't like that it won't flex with movement. I would rather have something that can bend when you move to reduce the chance that it gets pushed through the sphincter and all the way into the bladder. A dumbbell shape with a hole through the centre made from silicone or a similar material should be easy enough to produce for a company, just not in a home lab.

I'm also thinking of a kind of double Malecot style approach. The inner (proximal) retaining bit would be pretty much the standard 'flower petal' and the outer might just hold by tension against the urethral wall. This would be inserted with a stylet to extend the catheter and collapse the Malecot petals. These petals should then collapse for removal as tension is applied by the tether.

How to make this? I haven't got a good idea.

[Baby Brian]

I can take a 22fr for a day or two but then it becomes irritable for me (comfortable at an 18fr). Still, a 12mm ball my be a bit exaggerated. Maybe the conversion to metric is the problem here, don't know?

[Loveable_guy]

In the automotive and pluming business they use brass compression fittings on both steel and plastic line. In fact the PVC line feeding the ice maker in your home uses a brass compression ball. They are available in a verity of sizes. a photo is available at http://www.watts.com/pages/view_image.asp?imgId=6395, Food for thought.

[InD]

I don't think the starting size matter as much as the difference in size. I've been using a size 18fr base catheter with a roughly size 24fr "bump". So really I think a 4-6fr difference would work for most people. Maybe 14fr base with a 20FR bump? or 16 /20?

[nappyboymids]

So I've contacted the company I mentioned and they tell me it's easy to make what I want and not too costly, so I've ordered one. I'll post a pic when it arrives and let you all know how it goes - and don't worry I'll be *very* careful!

[diapertime42]

So I've contacted the company I mentioned and they tell me it's easy to make what I want and not too costly, so I've ordered one. I'll post a pic when it arrives and let you all know how it goes - and don't worry I'll be *very* careful!

Did you tell them the purpose of it? What measurements did you use?

[nappyboymids]

Did you tell them the purpose of it? What measurements did you use?

Basically the dimensions I was given, except that I reduced the size of the balls to 8 mm (I reckon that's a 24Fr catheter which should be ok - I hope it's big enough to prevent unwanted movement). They didn't ask about the purpose and I didn't say - discretion all round :-)

[Loveable_guy]

IF this works as many on here hope it will and you being the first to order I can see the beginning of a small business starting to take place here. That is you order in bulk and resell to the rest of us. So I’m guessing your source is in the UK, will you ship to the US?

You will have to let us know the cost and how effective this works for you.

[diapertime42]

Basically the dimensions I was given, except that I reduced the size of the balls to 8 mm (I reckon that's a 24Fr catheter which should be ok - I hope it's big enough to prevent unwanted movement). They didn't ask about the purpose and I didn't say - discretion all round :-)

I assume it will be stainless steel? Are you going to use a string or something to remove it? (I suggest fishline... stronger than string or floss)

[InD]

Basically the dimensions I was given, except that I reduced the size of the balls to 8 mm (I reckon that's a 24Fr catheter which should be ok - I hope it's big enough to prevent unwanted movement). They didn't ask about the purpose and I didn't say - discretion all round :-)

So what's the name of the company? Share!!

[nappyboymids]

@Loveable Guy - TBH I don't see why you need me as a middle man - the company seems very discreet but upfront so there's no reason why people shouldn't deal directly with them. They're based in the UK and say they ship internationally.

@diapertime42 - yes, it's stainless steel and I'll attach something to help getting it out; I also wonder if a magnet might not be helpful?!

@ All - I'll tell you the cost and the company when the thing arrives and I've made sure it's ok - sorry to sound cagey but I think it's better than a false lead. Apparently it'll be posted by Friday so I/you don't have long to wait!