Female To Male ?

[Haylee]

I am new to topics like this one so if anything comes out wrong I apologize in advance. I know people can be sensitive to terms and phrases used and I am so afraid of phrasing something wrong and accidently upsetting someone without at all meaning to. So please if I say something wrong just correct me gently? I don't want to say anything the wrong way.

I'm just curious though, is there such a thing as a female to male transexual? Again I know I know nothing right now about what the proper terms may be for any of this so if I get something wrong I am so sorry. Basically I guess what I am asking is I have seen a lot of male to female transexuals, but are there female to male ones too?

My online Mommy and I were talking in depth a few nights ago about some umm... erotic type fun which I am too shy to share here right now, but she suggested that I might do really well if I was with someone in real life who had umm.... *blushes* male fun parts, but umm.. female top fun parts? Omgggggggggg I know I sound like a total dorkous right now I know I know I just don't know how to phrase it all right and this is so embarassing to talk about. But before that I had never really given any thought to the whole idea of having a Daddy/Mommy?? ummm... O.o; ... yeah... but the more she talked about how she thought I'd be really happy with someone who had breasts that I could nurse on but ummm manly bits that my adult side enjoys so much >.> Well yeah it got me dreaming and fantasing and such.

Obviously I have a whole heck of a lot to learn and I pray I'm not coming across as a total ditz, but it was just something I was wondering about was all. *blushes* So, can I dig a hole to China to hide in now that I have made a total fool of myself not knowing how to phrase everything and ask all this? >.<

[sarah_ab]

there are female to male transgendered people... however, most females who transition to male that i have known will have their breasts removed but do NOT have the lower half surgery as the technology still isn't that great.

however, finding someone witha penis and breasts is not that hard, there are many 'shemales' out there who have both these parts.

or have a chick with a strap on.

but i just have to say, at 30 years old.. you need to use the words breasts, penis, vagina, you are not 12 any more..

[Bettypooh]

Like with FTM's, the level of body changes varies My last LTR was with a pre-op FTM and it was bliss for awhile But alas, there were other problems that caused it to end Oh, well- that's life and you just keep on going FTM's are rarer than MTF's but there are plenty of them out there. For the most part they 'fly under the radar' more- they have a much higher risk of assault if they're outed because of the socially accepted behavior of the average male, so I can understand their reasoning And Sarah is right- sadly they have not yet developed a really good bottom surgery for them I live in hope that someday someone will do more for them in that area- they need that as much as their counterparts need their own good surgical results.

Bettypooh

[Pudding]

I has boobies and a penis ~ and I'm an MtF; so I suspect that's what you're referring to ♥

FtM's do exist tho, yes ☆

[diapertime42]

As long as we are on the topic, in a female to male transsexual, can doctors actually

give "him" a penis? I have seen photos of how a M to F had a vagina formed, out of

skin from the scotum and penis, but the other way around? F to M?

Also, assuming that a penis could be fashioned from "spare skin" taken from somewhere,

I don't have a clue how they could make it get erect...

Anyone know more about this?

[Seal]

As long as we are on the topic, in a female to male transsexual, can doctors actually

give "him" a penis? I have seen photos of how a M to F had a vagina formed, out of

skin from the scotum and penis, but the other way around? F to M?

Also, assuming that a penis could be fashioned from "spare skin" taken from somewhere,

I don't have a clue how they could make it get erect...

Anyone know more about this?

Very few trans men go for bottom surgery. Usually, the reasons quoted are because it doesn't really deliver a convincing result; because they're satisfied with that part of their body; because it's too expensive. Most trans men go on T (testosterone, most effectively delivered with an injection) and have top-surgery (ie. removal of breasts.)

As for the types of surgery, there are quite a few options. You can find more information here:

http://www.ftmguide.org/grs.html

[Bettypooh]

As long as we are on the topic, in a female to male transsexual, can doctors actually

give "him" a penis? I have seen photos of how a M to F had a vagina formed, out of

skin from the scotum and penis, but the other way around? F to M?

Also, assuming that a penis could be fashioned from "spare skin" taken from somewhere,

I don't have a clue how they could make it get erect...

Anyone know more about this?

If the clitoris is large, they can extend and reshape it but the results are misshapen and small. With the urethra re-routed through there it will allow you to pee standing up. There are other surgical techniques that allow for more function and length but again the visual aspects are lacking. These require skin grafts from other parts of your body too. As one guy I know put it, he wasn't going to pay a premium price for a half-penis.

Check out FTM International to start with. There's a FTM who helps run this TG support group. There's also T-Male. It's been like forever since I looked into FTM, and a lot of my old FTM links are in dead HD's or are no longer online, but if you need more PM me and I'll see what I can come up with

Bettypooh

[LILJIM]

Also, assuming that a penis could be fashioned from "spare skin" taken from somewhere,

I don't have a clue how they could make it get erect...

Anyone know more about this?

I have heard they have pumps that they can put in males that have that prolem.Not sure if they would work for F to Ms.

[Total Trash]

I have heard they have pumps that they can put in males that have that prolem.Not sure if they would work for F to Ms.

Some do opt for a similar procedure, but most consider it far from ideal. In general it needs to be done as a second procedure several months after the initial phalloplasty. It also greatly elevates risks of complications. On top of that, many just don't like the idea of having to use a pump to get an erection. It all depends on how important it is to someone.

[rickibrat2]

I would also recommend the T-Vox wiki for additional information. It is generally well maintained by TGs for TGs.

Additionally, I would recommend the TrueSelves forums. Generally drama free, and people there at various stages of transition willing to help answer questions as best they can. However, with the TrueSelves forums, you will need to go through a few steps to be allowed into the full forum - generally sending an email to the moderator, into/info post. They take these additional steps to ensure the privacy of the members.

would you please messaging me a persons name so i can regester

[rickibrat2]

thank you

[Guest munchkitten]

LOL, trueselves sure does have a lot of BDSM stuff for being trans only.. but trueselves is very good.

I almost lived with a F2M, and am best friends with another. both agree that the bottom surgery is a waste of $$, and better spent on things like booze and drugs (not really, more like a house or college).

After long enough on T, the clit turns into a mini dick, at least that's what I've been told.

[yoyo_small]

Yes, FTMs do exist, I am one

What you're fantastising about is a pre-op MTF though. Like a lot of people have said most of us trans guys don't have lower surgery because the results are so bad. (Here in the UK you can get it funded by the NHS so cost is less of a problem, but all the guys I know just don't fancy the results).

Interesting comment about FTMs flying under the radar more because it's more stigmatised - I don't know if it's a UK/US thing but over here I think we're less known purely because we're less visible. There are fewer of us to start with (apparently FTMs make up about a third of the patients at Charing Cross, the UK's oldest and biggest gender identity clinic) and people don't seem to find us as scary or threatening as MTFs. Most people over here who find out a guy is FTM are surprised, but take it in their stride; there doesn't seem to be any huge culture of "MEN must be MEN and WOMEN must be WOMEN" over here. I guess things must be different in the States.

[Bettypooh]

Yes, FTMs do exist, I am one

What you're fantastising about is a pre-op MTF though. Like a lot of people have said most of us trans guys don't have lower surgery because the results are so bad. (Here in the UK you can get it funded by the NHS so cost is less of a problem, but all the guys I know just don't fancy the results).

Interesting comment about FTMs flying under the radar more because it's more stigmatised - I don't know if it's a UK/US thing but over here I think we're less known purely because we're less visible. There are fewer of us to start with (apparently FTMs make up about a third of the patients at Charing Cross, the UK's oldest and biggest gender identity clinic) and people don't seem to find us as scary or threatening as MTFs. Most people over here who find out a guy is FTM are surprised, but take it in their stride; there doesn't seem to be any huge culture of "MEN must be MEN and WOMEN must be WOMEN" over here. I guess things must be different in the States.

Things are a bit different here. Gender isn't generally seen as who one is, but more as what bits you were born with- and though it's getting better at least half the US can't see TG for what it really is The US is a very patriarchal society so there is more understanding of why someone might want to become a man, but much less of the reverse Plus with MTF's there's an expectation of one's 'sex' matching one's gender- guys 'blow-up' when they discover what's hidden by clothing wasn't what they expected, and they carry this attitude toward non-passing MTF's in public While they could be mature enough to leave it alone, many of them won't, and most Courts at least hear their arguments saying they got mad because they were fooled, as if that somehow validates their manhood and makes it OK for them to physically harm another human. Yes, I think that's close to the core of the matter- people over there value human life more than we do here and that sets the tone for everything else that follows

Bettypooh

[Daddy Fred]

The motives behind male to female 'transformations' are not at all clear or even universal among those considering it. A good friend of mine had the op. (on NHS BTW) not because she wanted to be a woman, as much as wanted the ribbing to stop. She had a naturally high voice, so much so that on telephone she was ALWAYS mistaken for a girl. As a boy, he had wide hips and a narrow waist and hardly needed to shave. At work there was constant taunting and some pretty nasty behavior, (nasty in the british sense of ugly/bullying).

But, speaking generally? I've met no-one where the one having the 'op became any happier for it. Sex life virtually disappears after she goes through all the 'men-on-the-make' as I call them, straight men of course. None of them take a trans-op. seriously, it's just a rocks-off exercise for them, no personal involvement. Like an unpaid prostitute.

A post-op. gurl eventually lives in a kind of "no-man's land" (no pun intended) of not being a man, and not really being a woman in the full sense, meaning can't have kids, can't get conventionally married, can't fool the other girls, and in some cases still being too tall, having big feet, an adam's apple, deep voice or a contrived falsetto -- you know, the usual suspects.

If YOU are thinking of the 'op., I would urge you to think very hard indeed about just what you're contemplating here. It's a big, irreversible event to go through.

Daddy Fred.

[Bettypooh]

.... had a naturally high voice, so much so that on telephone she was ALWAYS mistaken for a girl.....

That's an easier fix than for MTF's Vocal chords can easily be loosened for a lower tone, but tightening them often ruins the voice altogether, cause a loss of voice, or fades back to a lower range in time IIRC, the 'loosening' can sometimes be done with an injection but my mind fades a bit this morning

....A post-op. gurl eventually lives in a kind of "no-man's land" (no pun intended) of not being a man, and not really being a woman in the full sense, meaning can't have kids, can't get conventionally married, can't fool the other girls, and in some cases still being too tall, having big feet, an adam's apple, deep voice or a contrived falsetto -- you know, the usual suspects.

....

I know many post-op MTF's that do all of the things you list save for bearing children Perhaps you've just never met (or knew that you'd met) people like that When a T-girl reaches that level, she rarely exposes her past to anyone except another T-girl or her partner because she doesn't want to re-introduce the possibility of being outed with it's bad consequences back into her life I have met dozens of T-girls where I couldn't tell, and I know almost everything to look for in determining a person's probable birth-sex! It's not always as obvious as you'd think In some places legal TG marriage is possible but the chance of childbirth seems like it will always be impossible save for intersexed TG's I know plenty of T-girls who live their day-to-day lives with genetic women who don't know a thing about their past, and are accepted fully as who they really are- a woman

Being TS is not about "fooling" anyone, it's about being yourself and living that way just the same as all other people do, which is why I can't fathom those who freak out over it.

Bettypooh

[bignappybo]

well i like trangender people both mtf and ftm but no as something sexual but as for what they are people after all when we bleed we all bleed red

[NikABDL]

male fun parts, but umm.. female top fun parts?

This occurs more in male - female trans as males still have there "fun parts" but usually have "female top fun parts" as an early part of the changing process. and it is quite fun to experiment with that if they are up for it.

[sarah_ab]

well i am chromosomally, genetically a female.. i'm 5'11" have 9 1/2 inch MENs shoe size.. and i've always had broad footballers shoulders... i started swimming at a very young age and they just developed that way... to the point where i have to buy shirts that are too big on the rest of me just to fit my shoulders..... so i've got many physically masculine traits... but i'm still chromosomally, genetically female, and i am of the female gender as well.

[bignappybo]

Seems to be it is simpler to create a vagina than a penis

[Jabez]

Seems to be it is simpler to create a vagina than a penis

I wouldn't say that it's easier but the vaginoplasty procedure has been done far more (and therefore perfected to a much higher degree) than a phalloplasty. The results of a vaginoplasty are usually satisfactory whereas the phalloplasty leaves a lot to be desired.

Hopefully in time this will change.

[Total Trash]

It also has a lot to do with societal definitions of what makes a penis/vagina "functional." For women really the only expectation for them sexually is the ability to be penetrated. It doesn't matter if they don't naturally produce enough lubrication for penetration, or if they don't actually orgasm from sex. They can even take meds to prevent or minimize their menstrual cycle without being gender policed. Men, on the other hand, are expected to not only be able to penetrate their partner, but also to be able to ejaculate, become erect, and pee standing up. One need only look at the success of Viagra to see how much sexual virility is tied to masculine identity. Basically it's not so much that making a vagina is "easier," but rather that society views being penetrated as fundamentally passive, and therefore doesn't place nearly as much privilege on whether someone's vagina is "working" properly.

[bignappybo]

I stand correctedn thank for the infomation, but you know what they say, you learn something new everyday.

[yoyo_small]

The motives behind male to female 'transformations' are not at all clear or even universal among those considering it. A good friend of mine had the op. (on NHS BTW) not because she wanted to be a woman, as much as wanted the ribbing to stop.

[...]

But, speaking generally? I've met no-one where the one having the 'op became any happier for it.

There's exactly one motivation for all trans people who transition, and it's that we can't feel comfortable and OK in ourselves if we don't. You hear a lot of cissexual (ie. not trans) people flapping their jaws about how we Shouldn't Be Allowed to transition because it's obviously Bad For Us and will make us Lonely And Miserable Forever - well, that's just another form of prejudice really. Denying us the right to make our own choices, or painting us as irresponsible/crazy/naive if we choose to get the help we need.

There's no magic wand that solves all of anybody's problems at one fell swoop, and transition's no different in that respect. Can it create more problems for a person? Yes, absolutely. Are more of the people who have a lot of trouble after transition MtF than FtM? Also yes. But does it take away a huge, overwhelming, inarticulable source of pain from your everyday life?

Also yes.

Besides which, how many trans people have you met who passed perfectly, and who therefore you didn't have any idea were trans? Or to put it another way - how many of the perfectly normal people you've met might have been trans? I find it very funny the way cis folk think they can always spot a transsexual.

[Dubious]

In the future they prolly just change the heads..