What If I Untrained Myself

[Kari]

I have been reading the incontinence discussions/debates.

Personally, I think anyone who wants to be dependent on diapers at their own choosing is taking it too far.

I only say it, b/c I bet there are days that true Incontinent would like times where they have the choice of control.

So I see this as kind of an insult to our Incontinent friends IMHO.

Please don't debate me on this.

It's just my personal opinion.

What I was wondering is,

If a person untrained their bladder so where they go without control,

How long would it take to retain them to have a choice?

Or would they become a true Incontinent?

[matt p]

1 it would depend on how far you took it

2 guessing you went all the way it would take months 2 retrain depending on how hard you worked on it if you was all the time going to town and wearing diapers to keep dry in town and work and just working on it while at home could take longer and you could allways have a bed wetting trouble for good after that just depends

[Teenbaby96]

It be faster if you follow some sort of guide

[DailyDi]

You're not really untraining your body... but training your mind to just go whenever... so it shouldn't take long to untrain that mental state and start choosing when to urinate again.

[matt p]

i may be wrong here but the way i read it he was asking about reverseing it maybe

[TDL]

If you recently re-trained yourself (yes, that's the right term), you could easily train yourself to remember how to do "it" again. HOWEVER, if you managed to stay that way for several years, it would be close to, if not even impossible to train yourself back, as the sphincter muscles surrounding the "hole" in your bladder (Those who clinches when you try to hold it), would've become too loosened and inactive, eventually making them "numb". Like muscle failure.

[dondd]

TDL brings up a good point. At some point it would seem likely that the urinary sphincter would atrophy. Can you bring them back to a useful state? And how long would that take?

[TDL]

TDL brings up a good point. At some point it would seem likely that the urinary sphincter would atrophy. Can you bring them back to a useful state? And how long would that take?

I suppose that it would depend on the amount of time that they're inactive. If you didn't clench them for, let's say 5 years, I'm pretty sure that it would be impossible to re-train them back to a useful state (However, being incontinent for 5 years would obviously make any thought about retraining obsolete!).

[babykeiff]

Untraining, or more correct, diaper training (since that is what we do to infants by placing them into diapers) affects three things - 1 the brain and its ability to interpret the signals of a filling bladder, 2- the strength and functionality of the muscles, and 3 the operation of the nervous system and, in simple terms, the volume of the signal it creates to alert the mind.

1- The brain can easily be retrained, or to be more correct, is in constant learning mode, so it is constantly reacting to new training. The time scale needed to retrain the mind, is counted in microseconds.

2- Muscles need exercise to keep functioning. The longer one relies on diapers, the less ones muscles (sphincters etc) will be operating, and the longer it will take to reverse this. After a while (usually dependent on the person in question), muscles die (atrophy) from lack of use. This does not say that control will not be regained, however, it does state that control IF regained at this stage will be different - i.e. in times of stress or sleep, the muscle(s) may relax and cause leakage etc.

3- The operation of the nervous system is critical in continence control. If a nerve group atrophy, control is IMPOSSIBLE. While some nerves do regenerate if/when damaged, when a nerve is cut off by the body, there is no incentive for the body to regenerate.

Simply, long term diaper usage WILL lead to diaper dependency. To clarify this, if one chooses to wear diapers, and allows your body to void whenever you feel the urge, your body will bypass the path to inform you of said urge but instead relax your sphincter muscles itself. As time passes, the sphincter muscle will be in constant state of relaxation, and the nerve group that used to inform you of the urge will die. This is long before the sphincter muscle dies. At this stage, without a sensor implanted in your bladder, it will be impossible for you to know when you need to urinate. Without the knowledge of your need to urinate, your sphincter will stay open. Since the sphincter muscle is no longer in use, it will die.

In some people past the age of puberty, the nerve group can decay with a period of 3 weeks.

The second way to become diaper dependent is to remove control of ones bladder functions from the mind using hypnosis. This is the Pavlova's dog theory, where one uses the wearing of a diaper as the trigger to become incontinent. The full functionality of ones bladder etc are still in use, so no risk exists with losing control permanently. However, it is extremely easy to change the trigger item if one repeats the same process constantly ie if you wish to use a diaper AND you only put a diaper on when you go to bed, the trigger will change from the diaper to being asleep. This is when the problems occur as ones sphincter relaxes when one sleeps naturally. The sphincter will eventually loose its ability to stay fully closed, so one will leak when relaxed, ie when sitting watching TV etc. Also, as one gets older, since you have trained (by relaxing) you sphincter to be loose, you will loose all control. This type of effect is reversible, but will take roughly two week per year age to train. (ie a 30 year old will take 60 weeks or a year and a bit to retrain)

Simply, for most people, training oneself once past puberty to become diaper dependent is a one way journey. It also doesn't matter if you only train bladder dependence, bowel dependency will follow.

Infants / children CAN be retrained since their muscles and nervous system is still growing / developing. Adults / people past puberty in most cases, can't.

[spark]

"Simply, for most people, training oneself once past puberty to become diaper dependent is a one way journey. It also doesn't matter if you only train bladder dependence, bowel dependency will follow."

I'm curious about how this will work. I understand how becoming bladder dependent will become non-reversible (muscles atrophy). But, if you manage to become bladder dependent, does that necessarily mean that your bowels will follow. If so, why?

[Sophie ♥]

To each their own.

-Sophie

[rusty pins]

I agree. To each their own, however I do feel that there really is no need to make yourself incontinent. After all, as it is now people can wear a diaper and use it for whatever they want to without having to damage their body to do so. I guess it's the idea in their minds that if they made themselves incontinent they would enjoy the feelings of just wetting and messing their diapers without any warning and not being able to stop or control it. It may be hard for some people to get over their initial feelings of happiness at just wearing diapers and having no control whatsoever. I say, if you are able to go that far with your diapers and lifestyle, then you can just wear diapers and wet and poop in them all the time anyway! Why go to the often irreversable next step and make yourself incontinent? I know some people talk about diaper training, but some people who want to be incontinent go as far as to actually damage their body beyond repair! Surgically or by other means. If people feel that strongly that they want to damage their bodies to become incontinent in order to have to wear diapers all the time, then they reap what they sow. It may be fun for a while, but I would guess that some of them would regret it after a while and say to themselves, "What the hell was I thinking? I'm stuck now!" There would be some people though who just wouldn't care and would really enjoy having to be in diapers all the time and being incontinent. To me, that is taking this lifestyle and fetish too far. That is bordering on a mental problem, just like those people who want to have a healthy leg amputated so they can be in a wheel chair. That is no longer a fetish or fun thing to do now and then, like AB or DL's, it's a mental sickness that I will say is on the same line as a serial killer who kills others because he feels he has to! Some will bash me, I'm sure, but harming a healthy body in order to experience something you can already do anyway tells me that the person has a deeper problem.

[babykeiff]

"Simply, for most people, training oneself once past puberty to become diaper dependent is a one way journey. It also doesn't matter if you only train bladder dependence, bowel dependency will follow."

I'm curious about how this will work. I understand how becoming bladder dependent will become non-reversible (muscles atrophy). But, if you manage to become bladder dependent, does that necessarily mean that your bowels will follow. If so, why?

The sequence involved in relaxing the internal and external sphincter (bladder) will, without extremely fine muscle control and training, cause the bowel sphincter ti become lax. During times of relaxation, once the bladder sphincters are relaxed, poop will slip out of the now semi relaxed bowel sphincter. Secondly, and prob most importantly, personal laziness adds to this problem - i.e. you have came home from a long day, and in a diaper that you will change shortly, and with a semi relaxed anal sphincter, you decide that it is easier to use the diaper to poop and then shower, rather than take the diaper off, poop, shower and rediaper. Also, with you no longer taking contious control of your bladder sphincters, any loose poop will slip out only giving you nominal notice. A third reason to this link is due to the speed one processes food. The average time is 4-6 hours, and ones bowels are full. If you are asleep at this stage, diapered, secure and bladder incontinent, your body will, rather than wake you to poop, relax your bowels and allow you to poop your diaper. This is a repressed memory allowing this - you used to do this as an infant / non toilet trained child.

You are somewhat correct in that there is no real direct correlation between bladder incontinence and bowel incontinence, but usually, over time, and with lack of attention, bowel incontinence follows.