The Strange Case Of The Baby-Eating Fox.

[freswith]

In England we have been amused/horrified by the story of two 9-month old twin girls being attacked by a fox as they slept in their cots.

Here it is:- http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/wildlife/7814514/Fox-believed-to-have-attacked-twins-caught-on-camera-by-policeman.html

According to the "fox expert" the fox might have been attracted by the smell of the girls' nappies. Ludicrous though it might seem, I do remember that the smell of baby powder is in fact vanilla, which is just like ice cream.

The reporting has brought out all the sentimental animal lovers who flatly deny that a fox would do this, even though both parents saw the animal, and the girls are covered in bite marks. There are several suggestions that the parents caused the injuries. (Presumably the forensic evidence will settle this.)

The truly frightening thing is the way the mass of people has reacted. It suggests that any AB/DL will immediately be denounced as a paedophile as long as it fills the column inches.

[sarah_ab]

i read this article, but am confused how this would lead to an ab being labeled a pedophile... it has nothing to do with ab.. except that the infants were in diapers......

[sdsddlr]

Yeah, I don't see where associations of pedophilia factor into this (for once).

On the other hand, now I know how to get me some fox-loving. He is rather cute.

[DailyDi]

[Sophie ♥]

The truly frightening thing is the way the mass of people has reacted.

...it's frightening that people make a big deal about foxes eating children? Sounds like a big deal, despite all the bedtime stories foreshadowing this.

-Sophie

[sarah_ab]

pffft so a fox eats a child.... you know if they were identical twins at least now you can tell them apart easily.....erm.. too soon?

[anondl]

...it's frightening that people make a big deal about foxes eating children? Sounds like a big deal, despite all the bedtime stories foreshadowing this.

-Sophie

You're sick! I like you.

Anondl

[belinda_sue_fox]

Seems a tad odd that in the middle of a city they would leave doors open and way to bedrooms. Both attacked before they noticed?

Fox could have done it but it's one of them freak one in a million things.

[Yvhuce]

It takes some bad parenting to allow something like this to happen... Houses are typically built to keep anything bigger than mice and rats out. And most foxes would rather eat mice and rats than kids. Humans are generally a repellent to wild critters, and small children are usually only in danger when they're outside, in the critters' territory, away from aldults.

[freswith]

The association is that it is a fine example of a "moral panic"; a witch hunt. The story has run and run, with hundreds of web comments on the news websites.

The animal-lovers are desperate to disbelieve the parents' story because they cannot accept that a fox would attack a baby. Some believe it is a put-up job to excuse the repeal of the Hunting Act, which was promised by the Conservative Party just before they won the precent election. One has even accused the parents of concocting the injuries with a set of fox's teeth attached to a pair of pliers. This demonstrates a level of panic and self-deception that is truly frightening.

As ABDLs we face a similar danger of being the victims of a moral panic. People are pre-conditioned to regard Paedophiles as personal representatives of the Devil, and suitable for immediate lynching. We are commonly seen as being some kind of paedophile. We know damn well that we are not, and say so vigorously, but the fox/baby case illustrates how people can fly in the face of clear evidence in order to preserve their prejudices.

Have a careful look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_panic and shudder. This is the kind of thing that could await us. The actions of the few irresponsible exhibitionist individuals amongst us could at any time produce such an effect.

Also see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_ore and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_ritual_abuse and add up the total number of suicides.

The effect seems to occur when a society is frustrated by a misfortune such as economic depression, military defeat, epidemic, etc., and the leaders are challenged and do not know how to respond. They start an internal war against a small, identifiable part of the population to distract the people from the real problems. As with any war, the first victim is truth; the "Judges Rules of Evidence" are thrown out of the window, and the low-level politicians and red-top media have a feeding frenzy. ("X number of communists in the State Department!".

Pardon me for boring you, but "Moral Panic" has been a subject of study for me since I broke cover and joined this community. The databases held by website providers and ab-wear sellers would be prime sources of information for a new generation of "AB/DL Hunters", and reams of column inches for the popular media during the Silly Season.

OK, I've had my rant, I'll try and be good, and get back to writing another episode "Phone Conversation" straight away.

[Bettypooh]

By Doyle perhaps?

Like with humans, some animals differ from the "norm". It would be odd for a Fox to do this but entirely possible- and if the Fox was already used to the urban environment perhaps even likely As to "moral Panic" it is usually caused when those whose morals are wrong see that they can reinforce this by acting as part of a larger group. "Christian" churches are a common example of this behavior: Love everyone but hate Gays occurs, though they will all say that they don't do it- they hate the sin but love the sinner. I have yet to see that truly happen once and I've been watching for over 50 years now. We see it today in the US through the current anti-Hispanic rhetoric quietly being espoused by the "Tea Party"- we know there is nothing wrong with being an immigrant and that we all had no choice where we were born, but when you get to the private level you constantly hear people saying that they wish that the Hispanics would all go back home- legal or not. The hypocrisy is obvious since those who say this came from immigrants but they aren't "going home" themselves

It happens because the general public doesn't want to change from their current comfort to something more true-to do that would mean a total rethink of all their morals which isn't an easy thing to do. Most people would rather be accepted as part of society at large than take a correct stand which would cost them that acceptance And yes, the response of "moral panic" is orchestrated by public leaders- not only clergy and politicians but by anyone with more than usual public influence- as a way to reinforce their own wrongness so they don't have to see what their soul is really like inside of them These leaders may not understand the details of all this, but they understand how to work it and the end effect is the same As a nation and a people, America is being led down a path which will end up with two groups: those who have and are happy because they know how to work the system, and those who have not and are unhappy because they don't know they're being worked. It's happening openly, right in front of everyone's eyes but few see it and even fewer say anything about it Those who do say something will be excoriated by and excommunicated from the society they have to be a part of, and knowing this they too take the easy way out and refrain from speaking the truth too often and openly

In my 50 plus years I have come to the conclusion that what is popular is usually bad for us in some important way, and that all those allowed to lead us are much the same As with all things, it will not change until each individual recognizes the need for that change and does whatever it takes on a personal level to change it. No, it isn't easy and it will turn your world upside down with a crash- but it's the only way we, as a people and a race of humans, will ever advance any further. Ignorance is bliss, but continuously degrades you. Truth is hurtful until you learn to accept it because it's right. Unless it's rooted in truth which it almost never is, "Moral Panic" proves that my conclusions are right. I wish it weren't so

Bettypooh typing emoticons

[sarah_ab]

can we please not use wikipedia as if it is the end all and be all.. when trying to make a valid point it is best to use peer reviewed research... if you are using a point that has been cited in wiki, its best to go to that source and see how credible it is.. remember if it ends in .com always assume it is false information until back up otherwise......

anyway.... you get uproar over any article.... especially on the internet.. ahving people debate on the internet doesn't really mean much... as evidenced by this board, some people dont have anything better to do than post reply after reply to something..

i wouldn't worry to much about a 'moral witch hunt' because just like this article, the hype will last about a week then everyone will forget about it... except us

[Sophie ♥]

You're sick! I like you.

Anondl

*takes a bow*

-Sophie

[curiositykilledthecat]

You know all the anti-gun laws in England that culminated with attacking the fox hunters are looking pretty damn stupid now, aren't they. I'm still not getting how this is related to abdl though?

[belinda_sue_fox]

You know all the anti-gun laws in England that culminated with attacking the fox hunters are looking pretty damn stupid now, aren't they. I'm still not getting how this is related to abdl though?

That makes as much sense as the original post relating to abdl.

[Diaper273]

There is none. What I believe fres is saying is that just like people are getting hyped out about the fox, this will eventually happen to us. He assumes that pedophiles and adult diapers are linked when they are not. He also assumes that people will eventually attack adult who wear diapers. They won't. Why? Because even though some people might view wanting to wear diapers as a bad thing, it doesn't hurt anyone. And people know this. You don't see people going to old age homes protesting the elderly for "wearing diapers". Fres suggests that people will use this opportunity to fuel their hatred for ABDLs. I have yet to see any true hatred for ABDLs. To want to wear diapers has nothing to do with children. The elderly and incontinent wear them too.

Actually, I believe people are actually going to opposite. I have told a few people about my fetish. I find that people who are conservative and still have the exact same viewpoints as their parents tend to react badly and tell me I have a major problem. But those who tend to be more individualism and free-spirited either are A) Fine with it, Think it's funny and usually want to try it for themselves, or C) Have similar thoughts about different fetishes and tend to share them. Moral panic is basically for something that is morally wrong. How is wanting to wear diapers morally wrong? It isn't.

[freswith]

The association?

The news that a fox had attacked human babies was greeted with furious disbelief. It cut across the propaganda that has been directed against the British public for years, to the effect that foxes are beautiful wild creatures who have been wrongly accused of terrible crimes by wicked country people. A dose of reality about this vicious opportunistic predator was most unwelcome, and the fox-lovers came out with all kinds of silly rubbish about how the foxes would never do this or couldn't climb stairs, or how the parents had tortured their own children with fox-teeth fixed to pliers, how it was absurd to leave the garden doors open on the warmest night of the year, and how the whole story had been made up by the fox-hunting fraternity. It was a fine example of how unreasoning and emotional people can be; they will hold on to a prejudice against all the evidence.

*We are a very small minority: Foxhunters are a small minority

*We do something strange, and mildly offensive - remember that the rest of humanity is conditioned from infancy to view nappies/diapers as "nasty", "messy": to them it is "offensive". Foxhunters "tear innocent foxes to pieces". People think this is offensive, too.

*it involves childish things (or children - to a "moral entrepreneur" it can be implied to be the same thing)

It is not how we view it, we KNOW it doesn't involve children, but to a third-rate journalist/politician/celebrity looking for a story it can be MADE to look like it does. (Especially with people like D**k*r around.) People are conditioned to see paedophiles everywhere. They persecuted people in "Operation Ore" and only now are they seeing that they went too far. There is a certain section of society which is always on the lookout for another lot of victims to persecute. We could be in line for that

A former British government (John Major?) tried to ban adult pacifiers because of their association with raves and ecstasy. The move, which never made the law books, was greeted warmly.

Our society is facing difficult, frustrating times. A good witch hunt would be useful to take the public's attention away from their woes. People who feel they are being put on will often enjoy tormenting someone. This is how witch hunts start. They contnue until they use their supply of victims, or they start to take victims from the ruling class (whereupon they stop very suddenly).

In the old days there were undoubtedly people who regarding themselves as witches, either because they were good folk doctors, skilled in the use of herbs and placebos, or feeble people who would invoke the threat of a curse in order to gain some respect. There were also some socially isolated people who were sitting on desirable assets. A good witch-hunt, a nice juicy trial and a couple of really thrilling executions would make everyone feel nice and worthy, and free off some under-employed assets. Tolerance does not come naturally to human beings.

I am sure the folk-doctors and the silly little old ladies never foresaw the storm they would bring on themselves. Here, within our own little coven/society we feel safe and can be open, but out in the real world we are natural targets for a witch hunt. We should not be surprised if we get one.

[DaStickman]

I recall a similar incident in Australia 20 odd years ago... The supposed "Dingo ate my Baby" claim by Lindy Chaimberlain out in Alice Springs.

Woman was accused and sentenced to little Azaria's murder and then was aquitted when fresh evidence was found supporting her claim.

Recent evidence has affirmed her theory - animals are capable of anything really. Not surprised by this situation.

[curiositykilledthecat]

The association?

The news that a fox had attacked human babies was greeted with furious disbelief. It cut across the propaganda that has been directed against the British public for years, to the effect that foxes are beautiful wild creatures who have been wrongly accused of terrible crimes by wicked country people. A dose of reality about this vicious opportunistic predator was most unwelcome, and the fox-lovers came out with all kinds of silly rubbish about how the foxes would never do this or couldn't climb stairs, or how the parents had tortured their own children with fox-teeth fixed to pliers, how it was absurd to leave the garden doors open on the warmest night of the year, and how the whole story had been made up by the fox-hunting fraternity. It was a fine example of how unreasoning and emotional people can be; they will hold on to a prejudice against all the evidence.

*We are a very small minority: Foxhunters are a small minority

*We do something strange, and mildly offensive - remember that the rest of humanity is conditioned from infancy to view nappies/diapers as "nasty", "messy": to them it is "offensive". Foxhunters "tear innocent foxes to pieces". People think this is offensive, too.

*it involves childish things (or children - to a "moral entrepreneur" it can be implied to be the same thing)

It is not how we view it, we KNOW it doesn't involve children, but to a third-rate journalist/politician/celebrity looking for a story it can be MADE to look like it does. (Especially with people like D**k*r around.) People are conditioned to see paedophiles everywhere. They persecuted people in "Operation Ore" and only now are they seeing that they went too far. There is a certain section of society which is always on the lookout for another lot of victims to persecute. We could be in line for that

A former British government (John Major?) tried to ban adult pacifiers because of their association with raves and ecstasy. The move, which never made the law books, was greeted warmly.

Our society is facing difficult, frustrating times. A good witch hunt would be useful to take the public's attention away from their woes. People who feel they are being put on will often enjoy tormenting someone. This is how witch hunts start. They contnue until they use their supply of victims, or they start to take victims from the ruling class (whereupon they stop very suddenly).

In the old days there were undoubtedly people who regarding themselves as witches, either because they were good folk doctors, skilled in the use of herbs and placebos, or feeble people who would invoke the threat of a curse in order to gain some respect. There were also some socially isolated people who were sitting on desirable assets. A good witch-hunt, a nice juicy trial and a couple of really thrilling executions would make everyone feel nice and worthy, and free off some under-employed assets. Tolerance does not come naturally to human beings.

I am sure the folk-doctors and the silly little old ladies never foresaw the storm they would bring on themselves. Here, within our own little coven/society we feel safe and can be open, but out in the real world we are natural targets for a witch hunt. We should not be surprised if we get one.

Thank you for making the connection, albeit I was going for a more pro gun stance there but your point is well taken as well. I'm pretty sure the fox would have just obliged should the family have asked it to stop while they dial 911 or whatever they dial in the UK.

[sarah_ab]

ok i see the connection you are aiming for,... just guess there are numerous newspaper stories around the world daily that show the same thing... my problem is, the more we type in adult baby and pedophile in the same sentance, the more internet searches are going to link them together... we are responsible for this 'association' in hte minds of others more than anyone else...

although honestly i've no idea where you people are that everyone who isn't abdl thinks we are pedophiles... i've had numerous conversations with countless people and none of them made the associate between wanting to be treated like a baby and wanting to molest children.

[aleyxsis]

Unless it was an adult fox wearing a diaper i don't see the connection.Also up here we stopped the spring bear hunts now there are to many of them !

[curiositykilledthecat]

ok i see the connection you are aiming for,... just guess there are numerous newspaper stories around the world daily that show the same thing... my problem is, the more we type in adult baby and pedophile in the same sentance, the more internet searches are going to link them together... we are responsible for this 'association' in hte minds of others more than anyone else...

although honestly i've no idea where you people are that everyone who isn't abdl thinks we are pedophiles... i've had numerous conversations with countless people and none of them made the associate between wanting to be treated like a baby and wanting to molest children.

I have a friend who I lost contact with or about a decade and ran into recently and we began discussing sex. I mentioned as little as possible about what I was into but he kept prying, so I left it at age play and his only questions was if it involved children. i answered fuck no and stated that I'd be the first to stab a pedo with a catheter and he just smiled saying that he was just making sure. People don't immediately associate us with anything illegal, it's just a natural response when anything involving age is concerned. As long as you as a person don't come off as a mouth breathing creep, you are okay.

[elaine]

Yes it is very sad that those babies are disfigured for life by a wild animal. Growing up on a farm in the country I always found foxes very timid creatures but little oppertunist. but what may suprise people more is the fact that badgers caused us more problems than anything I have seen with my own eyes where a badger has managed to scale a four foot wall and get into a pigsty and attack young piglets and indiscriminately killing them for fun. So if they were city dwellers to whose to say that they to would not attack infants.

I to enjoy wearing nappies on occassions and behaving in a baby like manner. I have bore 2 children both now in their early twenties one of which has bore me a grandson. I look after my grandson and doing anything other than taking good care of him and making sure no harm comes to him is all that concerns me. If anyone was to as much as do anything inapropriate towards him heaven help them. When I look ater him any part of me that is ab just switches off. Elaine.