Health Care Reform - What'S The Big Deal?

[Newroad]

I love how someone gave everyone that disagrees with the health care reform bill negatives. That is so childish bullshit right there.

Well said, BoTox.

It doesn't surprise me at all. It is typical of the "open minded" "everyone has a right to speak" hypocracy that pervades the Progressives in this country. They only want freedom of speech for their point of view. If you disagree then you are demonized rather than debated. Your right it is childish. It is the response of someone who can not intelligently defend their position. In this case it rises to the level of cowardly. Rather than debate they will in essence annonymously defame you.

[BriGuy]

It doesn't surprise me at all. It is typical of the "open minded" "everyone has a right to speak" hypocracy that pervades the Progressives in this country. They only want freedom of speech for their point of view. If you disagree then you are demonized rather than debated. Your right it is childish. It is the response of someone who can not intelligently defend their position. In this case it rises to the level of cowardly. Rather than debate they will in essence annonymously defame you.

Interesting, that's been my experience with "conservatives". Republicrat, democran... its a one party system and they are all crooks and liars. There is nothing new about public funded healthcare, its called Medicare. But I digress, this is just the beginning.... unless your willing to pick up a rock and throw it I doubt anything will ever change, voting is useless, that has already been shown when the electoral college over filled majority rule. The government has become too large of an entity due to lackluster voting leaving those radicals who do vote in charge. Se la vi.

[curiositykilledthecat]

America will suffer until the pendulum stops swinging.

[M 90]

Interesting, that's been my experience with "conservatives". Republicrat, democran... its a one party system and they are all crooks and liars. There is nothing new about public funded healthcare, its called Medicare. But I digress, this is just the beginning.... unless your willing to pick up a rock and throw it I doubt anything will ever change, voting is useless, that has already been shown when the electoral college over filled majority rule. The government has become too large of an entity due to lackluster voting leaving those radicals who do vote in charge. Se la vi.

Yes, in the big picture this is the way I see it too. But I figure I will hang in there and go with what stance I believe in till I am utterly sure for myself that we are absolutely powerless towards our out of control, tyrannical government. Time will tell for me, ha ha.

[M 90]

Like in that other thread about health care reform, I am going to bite my tongue. I'm just going to shake my head and walk away just like every other member who doesn't want to mingle politics with the AB/DL interest.

Come on man, there is more to life then just being a baby! Express your damn opinion! Let us have it! Practice your first amendment right before the majority of this nation cowardly hands that over to our government in the name of some other big crisis that they the government has to "defend" us from, ha ha!

[peelover]

Because the brainwashed republicans who watch Fox News listen to anti-Obama propaganda.

[Dougie]

Neither Republicans or Democrats are qualified to run the USA, so quit flinging the "It's the political party" feces! Those two parties have screwed up the system so bad they both need to be flushed. I mean 100% wiped out, fired, gotten out of office at any cost. Failure to do so will be the end of the freedom in the USA as we know it.

So people, get of the "Blame Game" fence and look at what is really going on! It's time for you to start thinking for yourselves!

[Crimson_Wolf]

because american's are selfish ignorant assholes.. God forbid we paid an extra few dollars per paycheck to allow people to get proper health care.

its not a fear of socialism, its plain and simply greed and selfishness.

the part about if you dont have health care by 2014 or pay a fine is correct EXCEPT... if you do not make enough money to pay taxes, than you WILL NOT BE FINED for not having health care.. there are other exceptions as well, so if you cannot afford to get healthcare you will not be fined for having it!!!!

Ok first off Health Insurance is a privilege just like a lot of things in this country are. You aren't entitled to a home, insurance, education, etc. You have to work at obtaining them. Its people that live above their base salary that got us into the banks failing because they can't do fifth grade math. And its not selfishness because I work for myself I get raped in the ass between state and federal taxes that I don't get to enjoy what little I get. Plus its only 83 out of 300 plus million people who are getting this failed government insurance. Also people are going to get a 40% tax on their existing plan to cover these slackers. I have seen people on welfare getting better quality food than I do its sickening. All the government had to do was make insurance companies compete against each other and forget preexisting conditions.

[BBoy]

Thanks. I appreciate the comments. Like I've said before I'm from Canada. I find US politics very interesting and in many cases your policies directly affect other countries such as mine...That US embargo against Cuba is just whacked in this day and age and it directly affects how Canada can invstest in or help that beliegured nation. When you go to war Canada is inevitably drawn in. Your trade disputes and even your agricultural policy directly affects farmers here in Canada. In Canada we have come to accept this fact and we hae become the US's best friend and best ally.

Again thanks for the comments I do find your discussions interesting.

[Guest bedwetter4life]

because american's are selfish ignorant assholes.. God forbid we paid an extra few dollars per paycheck to allow people to get proper health care.

its not a fear of socialism, its plain and simply greed and selfishness.

the part about if you dont have health care by 2014 or pay a fine is correct EXCEPT... if you do not make enough money to pay taxes, than you WILL NOT BE FINED for not having health care.. there are other exceptions as well, so if you cannot afford to get healthcare you will not be fined for having it!!!!

It has nothing to do with greed or selfishness it has to do with personal responsibility... everyone needs to take responsibility for themselves..it's not my job or anyone else's job to do it for them! This bill was titled and sold as "Healthcare Reform" ... there are 2700 pages in it in total and none of them address the reasons for the soaring costs of healthcare ...None! This is a reform bill that has no reforms in it. Obama tried to tell us it would reduce the deficit by 'trillions of dollars" and no one with an IQ over 60 believes that (thank god) what a ridiculous thing to try to tell us! This should have been called "Tax increase wrapped in a healthcare reform wrapper" Did you know that 75% of the increases in the cost of healthcare and also health insurance over the last 10 years are due to the treatment and management of "chronic illness"? Chronic illness? like what you ask? Glad you did... like Diabetes, like heart disease, like smoking, and do you know what causes all of these (except smoking) chronic illnesses (ok most of them) OBESITY! We are way over weight ...we are way out of shape ... and we eat all the wrong foods ..all the time! (or at least too many of us do) being obese, and eating all the wrong foods and being disgustingly out of shape causes diabete, heart disease and other chronic conditions Keeping people alive for 20-, 30, 40, ++ years and having an insurance policy that covers their insulin and other results of their poor lifestyle choices is very very expensive!! The selfish people are the ones who can't say no to another piece of pie or another trip thru the drive thru at McDonalds... and now when their health goes south (a predictable and knowlable result) expect the rest of us who have kept in shape and eaten right and who aren't disgusting fat slobs to pick up or share the tab for the poor decisions they made. I would be against doing this even if it were part of the obama plan ...and it's not.

[Guest bedwetter4life]

Welfare should not be a federal program. It is not in the US constitution. Congress, the president and the courts have all become the self-perpetuating monsters that the likes of Thomas Jefferson warned us against. It should be a state program if it exists at all. Using the IRS to force people to pay for insurance is BS and a weasely way at that. A tax by any other name is still an unconstitutional tax.

I'm sick and tired of paying 1/3 of my paycheck to keep up the baby mommas and the good-for-nothing types that smoke, shoot, snort whatever they can get, continuing the generations of welfare recipients that expect everything to come from the government. The government makes nothing and cannot give anything that it didn't first confiscate under threat of incarceration from those that produce, slice off their percentage and return lesser to those it enslaves with entitlements. When you tax something, you get less of it. Taxpayers will diminish. When you subsidize something you get more of it. Welfare dependent people will rise.

I have no problem with those that cannot do for themselves getting assistance, be it church, salvation army, goodwill and the government as a last resort. I contribute to the first three willingly and to the last one begrudgingly. There is too much power and too much money wasted by the hundreds of billions in Washington, DC for the system to ever work again without cleaning out the whole lot of them.

If you think the worst has hit, just wait until they "discover" that they miscalculated the numbers and they start talking about a VAT tax. Our European members can enlighten you on that but then again, most of them don't ALSO have an income tax. We are all about to be yoked to the wheel of whoa for eternity if it isn't stopped in its tracks and a full reverse implemented post haste.

YOU ARE 100% RIGHT ..one thing you failed to mention is the obscene amount of medical care we give away FOR FREE! to people who have no legal justification or right to be in this country... Thats where I would start if I wanted to "reform' healthcare and it would require no new 1 page or 2700 page tax increases ...I would start by simply enforcing allof our immigration laws currently on the books and send every single person with no legal right to be in this country home!

[diamondback6881]

Did you know that 75% of the increases in the cost of healthcare and also health insurance over the last 10 years are due to the treatment and management of "chronic illness"? Chronic illness? like what you ask? Glad you did... like Diabetes, like heart disease, like smoking, and do you know what causes all of these (except smoking) chronic illnesses (ok most of them) OBESITY! We are way over weight.

Bolded emphasis mine.

Just an FYI. There are two types of diabetes.

Type one is insulin dependent(also called juvenile diabetes) which is caused by the autoimmune destruction of insulin-producing beta cells of the pancreas. It has no connection to weight whatsoever.

Type two diabetes is characterized by high blood sugar in the context of insulin resistance and relative insulin deficiency.

Please learn the difference before you paint all diabetics as fat, overweight pigs.

[drynot]

It is very interesting to see the difference between Canadian and American thinking. Healthcare is a hot button topic in Canada as well with differing opinions on how to manage it but there seems to be one consistent message up here that isn't in the States. We think people are entitled to it.

Now I agree that universal healthcare does not dissolve a person's self responsibility. You need to take care of yourself. I can't imagine being such a burden on society because I chose to ignore all the warnings and engage in self-destructive behaviour. I do know there is abuse of the system because some Canadians see our healthcare as free, which couldn't be further from the truth.

I think debates like this will be here long after we are all dead and gone.

[Dougie]

"Socialism is a great idea, until you run out of other peoples money."

[Horndog]

Come on man, there is more to life then just being a baby! Express your damn opinion! Let us have it! Practice your first amendment right before the majority of this nation cowardly hands that over to our government in the name of some other big crisis that they the government has to "defend" us from, ha ha!

If you really want my opinion, I'll post it here.

The discussion of health care reform consists of people who have not read the bill like in this thread. I have. I read the entire bill. While it's not the "change" that I was hoping for, I still see the bill as a tremendous step in the right direction.

I'm going to spare people here the obvious talking points. I want people to read the bill that just passed the House, find portions that back their claims and I will look over the bill with you. If you tell me, "I'm not going to read it. I find stuff online like most Americans do," then don't post in this thread until you read it.

[Yvhuce]

It is the PEOPLE who run this country not the lobbyists,insurance companies,CNN,Fox News Network & bankers/wall street !

No. It's the politicians and businessmen who run the country. The people don't really have any control, anymore... Notice that more than once the popular vote has been overruled by the electoral collage? That's cause the elections are rigged... The government will do whatever they damn well feel like doing, because they know that the majority of the people lack the backbone to stand up and smite them...

[BBoy]

"Socialism is a great idea, until you run out of other peoples money."

Then why is Canada and most of Western Europe in a far better financial situation? Socialism isn't the enemy, smart finacial regulation and posibily less tax cuts to pay down that whooping debt might be a good idea.

[Darkfinn]

Personally I have zero faith in the government of the United States. It doesn't matter what party we elect, it is always the same assholes up there running their own agenda while the people get screwed. At this point the only thing that is going to change the way this country works is a second American Revolution.

[Crimson_Wolf]

No. It's the politicians and businessmen who run the country. The people don't really have any control, anymore... Notice that more than once the popular vote has been overruled by the electoral collage? That's cause the elections are rigged... The government will do whatever they damn well feel like doing, because they know that the majority of the people lack the backbone to stand up and smite them...

You do now that the popular vote means nothing its just a stupid thing they put in. The electoral vote is the only thing that counts. it is true that votes don't count when your in a democratic or republican state

[Crimson_Wolf]

Hope everyone likes getting taxed 40% on your medical coverage that your employer gives you. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/16/opinion/16sat1.html

[Yvhuce]

Ha! 40% of 0 = 0!

[Crimson_Wolf]

Ha! 40% of 0 = 0!

So your the one of millions of people that leach off the hard work of others I hope you rot.

[Yvhuce]

I'm one of those people who doesn't get any sort of medical coverage from my employer... I'm in the process of seeking a job that will hopefully fix that...

[babyvr6]

I'm not employed either, but I don't need the government to support me. That what my parents are for.

[diamondback6881]

I don't get any health insurance from my employer, either. And I sure as hell don't need the .gov supporting me.