Please Help ... If You Can (update On Post No. 16)

[Pollyanna Fleshman]

While you read this, please try not to judge. That is all I ask. This is hard for me--very hard. I feel comfortable enough that I can share this with this community.

I’ve been sick lately, and I mean really sick, hence the reason I've not been around here much. I found out why today. I’m four months along in pregnancy. I’m also freaking out and am considering giving this one up for adoption. Here is why.

I lost my last baby two years ago, and now it is particularly hard since her birthday is coming up—Jan. 9. Anyhow, I blame myself for her death, and I’m not quite over it.

You see, she was the world’s crappiest sleeper, which was contrary to my first two. My first two would just fall straight to sleep right away once they were placed in their cribs. But she was so much different.

After months of horrible sleeping habits, I decided to contact her doctor. I asked him what I could do. He said that I should sleep train her by allowing her to cry it out, meaning that she’d cry herself to sleep. So, I did. I trusted in him, and I listened to him. I look back now and wish I had followed my gut, which told me it was so cruel and inhumane, but because he was the doctor, and I believed in him, I fought all my desires to comfort her, as well as my heart, and let her cry herself to sleep. Her hysterical, and I mean deathly hysterical crying, lasted for four hours. I did not once go in there because the doc told me not to and just to let her do it until she fell asleep. I listened to her the entire time just to make sure she was not in danger, but it was so horrible. She gagged, coughed, hiccupped, and I could hear her in so much distress. I could only imagine what was going through her little head.

The crying finally subsided, and I thought all was well. I thought she was sleeping peacefully, as the doctor said would happen, but I wasn’t sure how since she went to bed so worked up an under an immense amount of distress, hardly conditions anyone should be forced to sleep under no matter the age of the person. I made up my mind that I’d not do such a horrible thing the next night, but to my horror, there was never going to be a next night because my husband and I found her dead the next morning. It was so sick and scary!

I remember it like it was yesterday. She was balled up in the corner of her crib like she was trying to hide from something. Her hands were over her face. I moved her hands aside, and the expression, the expression on her face was something I can never forget. It haunts me every night. She looked immensely terrified. She was not at peace like the doctor promised! My heart was broken. I abandoned her to let her scream it out in an effort to teach her to sleep under doctor’s advice, and I paid for it heavily. Her last few moments of life were not precious at all but mortifying, and I wish I could take it back. My husband is feeling the same right about now since he was the one predominantly caring for the children’s’ needs since MS makes it a challenge for me to do. Hell, he even has to care for me.

After the loss of my baby, I decided to do research. In my research, I found chilling things about how the controlled crying method or the cry it out method of sleep training has traumatized babies. I also found how it could cause attachment problems. True, some parents report that their babies are fine, happy, well-adjusted, and all that, but are they really? The baby may give up and be in compliance because he quickly realizes his cries are not going to get him what he needs, but this does not mean that he is happy. He just goes along with what is being done because he quickly realizes that if he cries, it will not make a difference. It is almost likened to that of the Niles the silent baby. I have found that experts hail the deep sleep that happens after a baby cries to sleep as a huge success, but this is not so, as it is trauma induced.

Some of my findings are at the following websites, and yes I’ve saved everything:

http://www.awareparenting.com/comfort.htm

http://www.naturalchild.com/guest/pinky_mckay.html

http://www.askdrsears.com/html/7/T070200.asp

http://phdinparenting.com/2008/07/05/no-cry-it-out/

http://www.storknet.com/cubbies/attachmentparenting/cio.htm

I wish I knew then what I know now. I’m now sure why I just did not finally ignore the doc’s advice and just go in and comfort her. I mean, my hubby and I are the go aginst the grain type people, but I’m guessing we were just desperate from being tired? If I only listened to my gut and my instincts…

I have found so much more upsetting things that I could go on for hours, but I’ve also found many, many alternatives on how to help baby sleep that are much more loving, and I’m so puzzled as to why peds, baby experts, and all that do not offer them. I’ve picked up pamphlets, handouts, and all that from different ped’s offices, health departments, and other places where mothers typically frequent, and never do any of these offer gentle methods of putting baby to sleep. They offer the cry it out or controlled crying method, as if it were the ONLY way it could be done. They are shoving it down parents’ throats. I’m not sure why they take pleasure in being archaic and cruel to babies. I thought babies were supposed to be loved.

With the help of my hubby, and on good days when MS is not making me feel sick and tired, I go and distribute packets that I’ve made up to doctor’s offices, health departments, daycares, and other places where moms will frequent. I feel that since I lost my baby to such a cruel method—and yes research shows that SIDS is induced by the cry it out method in vulnerable babies—I feel that the least I could do is advocate. But, I do not feel adequate enough to keep this child that I will soon bear.

I’ve talked it over with my husband, and he feels the same. He feels that he, too, had taken part in the death of our child and doesn’t feel adequate or that we deserve this next one. The both of us do not feel that God should be kind enough to allow us a second chance. We failed to follow our instincts and were selfishly listening to our doc for the last baby and look where it got us. So, we are feeling horribly about this, while most are excited about a new arrival. We are dreading every bit of it.

I’m curious as to what you guys think. I’m curious to know if you feel we should keep it or not. Our family has told us we should and that we are being too hard on ourselves. We’ve got a new doc for the children since our daughter’s death, and he is more attachment parent friendly. Even he says we should keep our next child, but we still feel we do not deserve to. Are we horrible for feeling this way? Are we evil to want to give up this child? Right now, I feel like shit, but, if you can point anything out to me that is worthwhile, perhaps, I can talk to my husband, and we can reconsider?...

[Guest lil_wolf]

Sorry about your loss. Its not nice when your children die before you do and I can not think of what you were and still are going through.

If I was in your shoes I would keep the baby. I don't believe in abortion or adoption.

Are you thinking of giving the baby away because you blame yourself for the babys death. It was not your fault even though it may feel like it. If anyone is to blame its your doctor for bad advice. Hope your not registered with him/her anymore.

So yeah have this baby and do it your way. I'm sure you and your husband are superb parents.

This is just my thoughts Do what you believe to be best for all three of you.

[Curiosity]

I wonder who you look like, me or your dad,

Do you have my smile and his eyes?

Would you have been big and tall or tiny and small?

We had dreams for you that reached to the skies.

It was long, long ago and I still miss you so,

Thanks to Jesus, I'll see you in heaven.

I'll hold you in heaven someday,

When my trials on earth pass away;

The angels have rocked you, the Father watches over you,

I know you're waiting for me;

I never could hold you or tell you "Goodbye",

But I'll hold you in heaven someday.

In loving memory to Pollyanna, Husband and Family

I am very sad for your loss and nearly in tears myself.

I wish I could give you a hug right now.

From one mother to another Id say to have this baby. Your not evil or horrible and it was a sad accident.

Your not to blame and neither is your husband.

Please take your time thinking this over because if you decide to give the baby up then within time you may regret doing so.

[Pollyanna Fleshman]

I wonder who you look like, me or your dad,

Do you have my smile and his eyes?

Would you have been big and tall or tiny and small?

We had dreams for you that reached to the skies.

It was long, long ago and I still miss you so,

Thanks to Jesus, I'll see you in heaven.

I'll hold you in heaven someday,

When my trials on earth pass away;

The angels have rocked you, the Father watches over you,

I know you're waiting for me;

I never could hold you or tell you "Goodbye",

But I'll hold you in heaven someday.

In loving memory to Pollyanna, Husband and Family

I am very sad for your loss and nearly in tears myself.

I wish I could give you a hug right now.

From one mother to another Id say to have this baby. Your not evil or horrible and it was a sad accident.

Your not to blame and neither is your husband.

Please take your time thinking this over because if you decide to give the baby up then within time you may regret doing so.

Oh, my god! I cried when I read that poem.

This is soooooooo hard! Yes, it still hurts, like hell. Losing a child is probably one of the things you never get over, especially if you KNOW that their last moments of life were very horribly unpleasant. If I only was there for her. If we only did not listen... The sad thing is that many peds recommend this crappy advice. And what is even sadder is that many babies each year are traumatized by it. When researching, I've seen mothers ask if they should continue, though, despite their bundle of joy showing sign of fear of his crib and room, and sadly, some parents are so rapped up in the advice of these experts and say that these mothers should continue. I could not imagine being a helpless little infant being forced to do something I was terrifed immensely to do night after night. Look at the below links, and you'll see what I mean:

http://parents.berkeley.edu/advice/sleep/cry.html

http://community.babycenter.com/talk/a3096..._hates_the_crib

That last link was posted by a mother recently. So, when I get the guts and courage and composure, I'd like to tell her my experience. I'd also like to let her know to listen to her baby's cues and to her heart, for that is the best thing to follow. I always did that except for that one time, and look, my child's dead. She will not be here to celebrate the hollidays with us. She will not walk across the stage at high school graduation. She will not walk with me to elementary school for the first time and be seen off. So much will never happen, as she is a life unfinished. There are so many consequences to ignoring maternal instincts. Why do these experts like to exploit parents?...

Oh, and check out this barbaric expert below. My husband wants to cuss her out and rip her a new asshole. I showed him the article, and he was fumigated! It is at http://www.alyson.ca/2008/02/cry-it-out-meth.html I have to say she is pretty barbaric. I don't understand some people. I just think that some LIKE to cause mental problems in others on purpose so they can get money later, hence the advocation for harmful methods and advice. People say infants don't remember what was done, but that is soooooooo not true. I remember a lot from the age of one and two, and they were not always good things, especially my times in the hospital long term. Infant trauma will have an impact later, this is why I'm so very terrified of hospitals. I literally have to be dragged there. And, my births were done at home.

[Bettypooh]

While you read this, please try not to judge. That is all I ask. This is hard for me--very hard. I feel comfortable enough that I can share this with this community.

I’ve been sick lately, and I mean really sick, hence the reason I've not been around here much. I found out why today. I’m four months along in pregnancy. I’m also freaking out and am considering giving this one up for adoption. Here is why.

I lost my last baby two years ago, and now it is particularly hard since her birthday is coming up—Jan. 9. Anyhow, I blame myself for her death, and I’m not quite over it.

You see, she was the world’s crappiest sleeper, which was contrary to my first two. My first two would just fall straight to sleep right away once they were placed in their cribs. But she was so much different.

After months of horrible sleeping habits, I decided to contact her doctor. I asked him what I could do. He said that I should sleep train her by allowing her to cry it out, meaning that she’d cry herself to sleep. So, I did. I trusted in him, and I listened to him. I look back now and wish I had followed my gut, which told me it was so cruel and inhumane, but because he was the doctor, and I believed in him, I fought all my desires to comfort her, as well as my heart, and let her cry herself to sleep. Her hysterical, and I mean deathly hysterical crying, lasted for four hours. I did not once go in there because the doc told me not to and just to let her do it until she fell asleep. I listened to her the entire time just to make sure she was not in danger, but it was so horrible. She gagged, coughed, hiccupped, and I could hear her in so much distress. I could only imagine what was going through her little head.

The crying finally subsided, and I thought all was well. I thought she was sleeping peacefully, as the doctor said would happen, but I wasn’t sure how since she went to bed so worked up an under an immense amount of distress, hardly conditions anyone should be forced to sleep under no matter the age of the person. I made up my mind that I’d not do such a horrible thing the next night, but to my horror, there was never going to be a next night because my husband and I found her dead the next morning. It was so sick and scary!

I remember it like it was yesterday. She was balled up in the corner of her crib like she was trying to hide from something. Her hands were over her face. I moved her hands aside, and the expression, the expression on her face was something I can never forget. It haunts me every night. She looked immensely terrified. She was not at peace like the doctor promised! My heart was broken. I abandoned her to let her scream it out in an effort to teach her to sleep under doctor’s advice, and I paid for it heavily. Her last few moments of life were not precious at all but mortifying, and I wish I could take it back. My husband is feeling the same right about now since he was the one predominantly caring for the children’s’ needs since MS makes it a challenge for me to do. Hell, he even has to care for me.

After the loss of my baby, I decided to do research. In my research, I found chilling things about how the controlled crying method or the cry it out method of sleep training has traumatized babies. I also found how it could cause attachment problems. True, some parents report that their babies are fine, happy, well-adjusted, and all that, but are they really? The baby may give up and be in compliance because he quickly realizes his cries are not going to get him what he needs, but this does not mean that he is happy. He just goes along with what is being done because he quickly realizes that if he cries, it will not make a difference. It is almost likened to that of the Niles the silent baby. I have found that experts hail the deep sleep that happens after a baby cries to sleep as a huge success, but this is not so, as it is trauma induced.

Some of my findings are at the following websites, and yes I’ve saved everything:

http://www.awareparenting.com/comfort.htm

http://www.naturalchild.com/guest/pinky_mckay.html

http://www.askdrsears.com/html/7/T070200.asp

http://phdinparenting.com/2008/07/05/no-cry-it-out/

http://www.storknet.com/cubbies/attachmentparenting/cio.htm

I wish I knew then what I know now. I’m now sure why I just did not finally ignore the doc’s advice and just go in and comfort her. I mean, my hubby and I are the go aginst the grain type people, but I’m guessing we were just desperate from being tired? If I only listened to my gut and my instincts…

I have found so much more upsetting things that I could go on for hours, but I’ve also found many, many alternatives on how to help baby sleep that are much more loving, and I’m so puzzled as to why peds, baby experts, and all that do not offer them. I’ve picked up pamphlets, handouts, and all that from different ped’s offices, health departments, and other places where mothers typically frequent, and never do any of these offer gentle methods of putting baby to sleep. They offer the cry it out or controlled crying method, as if it were the ONLY way it could be done. They are shoving it down parents’ throats. I’m not sure why they take pleasure in being archaic and cruel to babies. I thought babies were supposed to be loved.

With the help of my hubby, and on good days when MS is not making me feel sick and tired, I go and distribute packets that I’ve made up to doctor’s offices, health departments, daycares, and other places where moms will frequent. I feel that since I lost my baby to such a cruel method—and yes research shows that SIDS is induced by the cry it out method in vulnerable babies—I feel that the least I could do is advocate. But, I do not feel adequate enough to keep this child that I will soon bear.

I’ve talked it over with my husband, and he feels the same. He feels that he, too, had taken part in the death of our child and doesn’t feel adequate or that we deserve this next one. The both of us do not feel that God should be kind enough to allow us a second chance. We failed to follow our instincts and were selfishly listening to our doc for the last baby and look where it got us. So, we are feeling horribly about this, while most are excited about a new arrival. We are dreading every bit of it.

I’m curious as to what you guys think. I’m curious to know if you feel we should keep it or not. Our family has told us we should and that we are being too hard on ourselves. We’ve got a new doc for the children since our daughter’s death, and he is more attachment parent friendly. Even he says we should keep our next child, but we still feel we do not deserve to. Are we horrible for feeling this way? Are we evil to want to give up this child? Right now, I feel like shit, but, if you can point anything out to me that is worthwhile, perhaps, I can talk to my husband, and we can reconsider?...

My heart goes out to you. Indeed you tried as best you knew how at the time so do not blame yourself for doing what you honestly believed to be the best. That's all any on us can ever do.

I would have died after a surgeon's blunder had I not had people who loved me force me to see another doctor. Since then I have found a good doctor and anyone who impacts my healthcare is going to get a grilling from me like thay've never had until I am satisfied that they are competent. At least half the doctors in the US are not and should be digging ditches instead.

We all have to learn that we aren't going to be the center of attention in life. If that is the reason a baby is crying, then letting them cry isn't improper, but since they can't communicate this to you how can you know for sure? You must trust your heart and instincts. If your doctor disagrees see another doctor(or two)before deciding the proper course to take. Meth babies cry because they are experiencing the trauma of withdrawal which is he!! on an adult and so much moreso on a child who cannot understand. Beyond showing the child that you truly care there is little that can be done in these cases. Babies are to be loved and nurtured no matter what, yet the process of preparing a child for life sometimes requires allowing the feeling of hurt to be ameliorated through crying. Never should crying be ignored until it's source is positively found.

I am an activist in a few areas, and like you it was caused by my own bad experiences with 'the norm'. Education will help those who truly care to change for the better but it cannot cure the non-caring or stupid among us. I do my work knowing this because if even one person learns how to be better I have improved the entire world a little bit through them. More heartening is to have learned that our best advocates often come from people who learned from the people who experienced the hurt that caused them to set off on the education goal in the first place. Keep up the good work and bless you for it

I will allow you to decide for yourself what to do about the pregnancy. It is not an easy decision for someone who obviously cares like you do. You must follow your heart as you remember that this decision is a forever unchangable one, you will have to make the right choice the first time around and live with it's results.

You are not inadequate to be parents. Do not feel that way because you followed bad advice. Nobody does everything correctly in life and all we can do is learn from our mistakes, help others to avoid making the same mistake, and go on with our life. There is no such thing as a perfect parent or a perfect person and that is just part of how life is for humans. All you can do is give your best and I know that you do and you will. That is all that anyone can do, remember that and go on with life anyway.

Bettypooh

[Baby Bethany]

First off, I'm sorry to hear about your daughter.....that's a tragedy!!

I'm not a parent, so you can take or leave what I'm about to say as you wish. It's just my own view.

To my mind by producing a child, we have a responsibility to that same child to raise them the best we can. By putting them up for adoption, you are in effect making that child/person pay the price for the mistake of yourself and your partner (in that you didn't use protection). No, there is no doubt in my mind here, if you are 100% certain that you don't want a child, then either use a contraceptive or simply don't have sex. Once you are pregnant, you have a responsibilty to that human being you've created to give them a fair chance in life.

As to whether you are suitable parents or not, who can say? But you have two other children, and I take it you've raised them okay? I honestly think you're being hard on yourselves. It's always natural to ask the 'What if I had done this?' type questions. But the bottom line is you were following a doctors advice with regards to your daughter.........what else could you have done? Had you ignored the advice and still lost the child, then you would blame yourselves even more. Anyway, had you been bad parents you probably wouldn't have sought medical advice in the first place.

I always think it's important for all of us to grieve properly (something I feel a lot of people don't do after the loss of a loved one) and once we've done that we get on with our lives the best we can. In your case, this child may be the best thing that ever happened to you and your husband.

Beth

[MusicBABY180]

My older sister died when she was a baby, before I was born. I often live life wondering what thing would be like if she was alive. My mom was devasted, of course, and she never wants to talk about it.

As for the baby, I would keep it. Just because you made a devasting mistake doesn't mean you should give up you next child because you feel inadequte as a parent. Plus, think of the child going up without her/his birth parents. I would never do that.

Maybe it's god giving a second chance? I don't know, i'm trying to help, but I don't what to tell you.

[underwhere]

Pollyanna, ultimately, I think only you and your husband are qualified to make this kind of decision, but here is something to consider: You obviously have a lot of guilt around the death of your previous child. HOWEVER, you are obviously an exceptional parent who shows a great deal of love and compassion. Even the situation you described here was based upon your desire to care for your child in the manner you thought would be best for the child. It might have been bad advice from a doctor, but it was given to you, and acted upon by you, out of love for that child.

Here is what you have to assess for yourself:

* Will you be able to be a parent to your newborn, or will you be too racked with guilt to care for the new one adequatelyt? This is not an easy question for anybody to answer, but many people find they overcome their guilt by caring for and nurturing a new life. Only you can know if you will be capable of doing that, and you might not know until you give it a try.

* How will potentially caring for your newborn effect your relationship with your living children? Some people find that after a tragedy like you described, all of their energy goes into a specific task at the expense of other tasks which might also need tending to.

* Your attitude about your deceased child may effect (positively or negatively it is impossible to know at this point) how you choose to parent this new child. Try to be aware of your thoughts and feelings, and be cognizant of when you might be making a decision based upon your current child, or what you would have wanted for your deceased child.

* If you choose to give the child up for adoption, how would you explain the absence of your newborn to your current child? This can be a very complicated situation to address.

If, after you've considered these points and many others I can't even think of now, you decide that the child might be better placed in adoption, that does not mean your relationship with that child has to end. In fact, it could continue for many many years down the road, even after the child has been adopted.

I can't tell you what you should do. I'm not really in the position to do that. Others here have suggested firmly you should keep the child. I want you to make the decision that is best for you, your husband, your current family and for the future newborn. I don't know enough details about you personally to say what would really be best. All I can suggest is that you pay a lot of attention to how you feel and why you feel that way. Feelings are not always the best guides for decision making, but they should be examined nonetheless. Whatever you decide, I want it to be a decision that you will feel comfortable living with. You don't have to make this decision right now either. Give yourself some time to think about it, and keep talking about it with your husband. If you think it might be helpful, consider seeking out some therapy sessions to help you decide the answers to some of the points I, and others, have raised. Whatever you decide, I'm sure it will be the right decision, and I know this is true because I can tell how much you care what from you wrote here.

[Pollyanna Fleshman]

Guys, I want to thank all of you prefusely. Due to a very painful incident I witnessed this morning, I've decided I'm keeping them. The last pictures of the pregnancy, which were taken yesterday, confirmed I'm going to have tripplets. The first ones, taken a couple of days ago, were not quite as clear, so I requested different ones. I'm keeping them.

I appreciate the time that all of you took to answer my questions. Thanks so much for pointing so much out.

[nitrous]

I'm sorry for your loss. You and your husband are not the first victims of bad advice by doctors regarding a child's health. I believe your hearts were in the right place but you were lead a stray. I believe you two are careing loving people and should keep your child. Don't beat yourselves up. There are lots of infants that with the best of care die. I almost died from a multitude of things when i was born 4 months early at 1lb 8oz. And heres some free advice, If any of your children have some sort of learning disability or some sort of physical disability please don't put them in special education.

[DiaperBoyKR]

Pollyanna,

I don't think that you should give up your child, and I'm glad to hear that you decided to keep your triplets even with all of the challenges that it may present. From what I've read of your posts recently, I think that you and your husbad would make excellent parents to them. I understand you both feel extremely guilty regarding the death of your last child, but I would argue that you had acted in good faith on the advice of a person you trusted knew what they were talking about. That doesn't make you bad parents.....quite the opposite! When you didn't know an answer, you actively sought out an "expert" to find out the correct one. It was a case you had never encountered before (if your previous children slept soundly). You made a mistake, one with unfortunate consequences, but we are all human, and as such we are going to make mistakes in our lives. Some we regret more deeply than others.

I notice that you are a Christian, so i'll say this. Isaiah 48:10: "Behold, I have refined thee, but not as silver; I have tested thee in the furnace of affliction." I know its cliched to say that for God's people, all things happen for His purpose, but it is true. He tests us in ways that we can't possibly understand, but our part isn't too becry the trials he has for us.....its to learn from them. From what you've said in your posts here and in the other column, I think that you HAVE faced what was to be learned. Please don't doubt your ability to raise your children well because of a mistake, however greivous, that you made in the past.

[curiositykilledthecat]

I had an older brother who died shortly after birth then my older sister was born a year later. I often wonder what life would have been like, then I realize if he lived I wouldn't have.

[Guest refridginator]

i had a younger sibling who died in the womb from my mom working too much, don't remember the gender though. I've wondered here and there what it would've been like to have a younger sibling closer to my age than my current sibling. It didn't affect me though that he/she died, i was only in second grade. that's might be how your kids would feel about it if you're wondering. not only that but on another subject, you're inspiring me to go meet my dad. your story inspires family and familiarity, even though it's on one of the sadest and most tragic subjects any one living being can experience.

but on another note, congrats on the triplets! that's awesome.

[Incomplete Dude]

I think that once the new babies arrive, your mothering instincts will be stronger than your guilt. My grandmother had 6 children and at least 10 pregnancies. Most were miscarriages, but one did die shortly after birth due to medical incompetence, so I know it is possible to move on.

I also have to wonder, I've never heard of a baby crying itself to death, so I can only believe there was some condition that caused both things. I presume you didn't have an autopsy to find out though. Either way, it should have been caught by the doctors, even if diagnosing babies can be difficult. Don't forget that getting a 2nd opinion on these things is often very useful. (Hopefully, you have a good medical plan/system, so it doesn't cost extra too.)

As for adoption, even though you've decided against it, I just want to say I don't see anything wrong with it. If my dad wasn't adopted, he would have be raised by a poor mother and no father, and I certainly wouldn't be here. Instead, he got two wonderful parents, and there are many more on the adoption waiting lists. If you cannot provide your children with adequate care, don't hesitate to use adoption services.

[spoonchicken]

#1) What's done is done, and that's that. Don't make the mistake of living in the past. #2) Trust your instincts. They're usually correct.

[Pollyanna Fleshman]

Well, the day of her death is steady approaching. This is the reason that for the last two weeks, I've been more so governed by my emotions around here, swearing more than the usual. I'm not asking for sympathy but for understanding. I'm not asking to have this accepted as a crutch. I'm merely explaining why I've been a complete and total ass lately in case anyone was wondering.

I'm usually a very tactful person, I will assure you. Pleas go back and read things I've posted early. However, I can also be governed by my emotions during hard times like these, and particularly, the birthday of my daughter, as well as the anniversary of her death bring out the asshole in me, sorry to say.

I don't wish this on any parent. I don't even wish this on my worst enemy! It's absolutely crippling. While a parent who has lost a child can move on, as i have, one can never forget the tragedy. while I do become very emotional when I see things done that are inhumane, I get even more so during these times. I hope you understand.

I think that , for the betterment of us all, that I will be taking a leave of absense from here for the next month or so after tomorrow, as I'd like to stick around for anyone who wants to say any last minute things to me. After tomorrow, I'll be gone, as i need time to think, and I'm not sure it is proper for me to continue posting here and being a part of the community while I'm dealing with these issues. While I appreciate the love and support you've shown to me, I can't expect you to bear my problems because they are simply not yours.

I will be getting sort-of a break, since The kids will be spending the summer with my parents, and the babies will be home with us, as I feel they are too yung to be in anyone else's care yet. I wish all of you well and look forward to returning on a better and more happier note. Sorry for any trouble I have caused the community. Keep being wonderful like you are. Blessings.

[Knuxie Fawks]

I'm so sorry. That doc was a quack, and his advice makes me wanna punch him in the face.

I think you should keep the baby. I can tell, deep down, you're a great mother. After all the research you did, I know you won't make such a mistake again. However, if you feel that you're just not ready to go through raising another baby, then I hope it goes to a great family. I know you'll make the choice that's best for you and for your baby. Good luck. I'll be looking out for you.

[Pollyanna Fleshman]

I'm so sorry. That doc was a quack, and his advice makes me wanna punch him in the face.

You'll be surprised as to how many doctors recommend that parents train their babes like they ar animals, as if they are less than human. Richard Ferber's "Solving Your Child's Sleep Problems" and the book titled "On Becoming Babywise" are fine examples that suggest that you let your baby scream its brains out until it gives up and falls asleep. It's hardly loving to do. I feel that since such a thing is abusive if done to the disabled, mentally challenged, or the elderly, it should not at all be done to helpless babies. I wish I knew then what I know now. My child would probably be alive...

I think you should keep the baby. I can tell, deep down, you're a great mother. After all the research you did, I know you won't make such a mistake again. However, if you feel that you're just not ready to go through raising another baby, then I hope it goes to a great family. I know you'll make the choice that's best for you and for your baby. Good luck. I'll be looking out for you.

This is actually an old issue. Sorry for the confusion. My triplets are very happy and healthy, and we have, in deed, decided to keep them. And, we are going to do this much better the next time around.

I thought I'd add on a continuation of this thread, since it was about the same thing--the death of my daughter. I did not see it advantageous to create another thread on the same topic, as that could become annoying, hence the reason I posted the update about the way I'm handling the death of her this morning.

Thanks so very much for your kind words. I try to find comfort in knowing that she is in a better place than here. At least she is safe from sickness and, yes, quack experts that mislead parents into doing things against their instincts and better judgment. Type "cry it out sleep training" in google, and you'll see how there are hundreds of posts of moms stating that they feel so horrible and guilty. What cracks me up is that their is even an article on how to get rid of the guilt. Basically, it is advising that a parent become less than human and deny biological programming. Whether you believe that God or evolution did it, parents are hardwired to respond to their infants, not ignore them. This is why it is so very common that mothers are in deep, deep distress when following such books/advice/experts because it is not natural. It also goes against the natural bond of parent and infant, as well as what is appropriate for their development. Oh, why did I not know this then?...

I know it is best to try and move on, but one cannot help but think of the should ofs, would ofs and could ofs. I have always wondered what it would be like if I never listened to that doctor and just trusted my motherly instincts and my heart...

[redneck diaper boy]

[

As an adopted child, I have no hard feelings toward me birth parents. My father was a race car driver and was killed in 1960. My mother had to do what she had to do. She was 16 at the time.

Adoption is a hard thing to do but it is the ulitimate act of love if you can't support a child. Keep in mind that if you choose, you don't have to loose contact with the child forever.

I hope this helps.

RDB

[Pollyanna Fleshman]

[

As an adopted child, I have no hard feelings toward me birth parents. My father was a race car driver and was killed in 1960. My mother had to do what she had to do. She was 16 at the time.

Adoption is a hard thing to do but it is the ulitimate act of love if you can't support a child. Keep in mind that if you choose, you don't have to loose contact with the child forever.

I hope this helps.

RDB

Sheesh! I really caused a mess...

Thanks so much for all your kind words, but I'm definitely keeping the babies. The update is on Post no. 16. I'll have to put that in the title of this thread to avoid further confusion. And, you are definitely a wonderful help.

[ultrapampers]

Why do we give weight to anniversaries? It's a uniquely human behavior. As far as we know, scientifically-speaking, time is linear. It doesn't loop back upon itself. Today has no true relation to the same date from last year, nor the year before, nor ten years before that. Yet we all celebrate birthdays, wedding anniversaries, and, yes, sometimes, the anniversaries of loss or traumatic events.

Godspeed, Pollyanna. We'll miss you here, but we certainly understand; take all the time you need. We'll welcome your return with open arms.

[sarah_ab]

Why do we give weight to anniversaries? It's a uniquely human behavior. As far as we know, scientifically-speaking, time is linear. It doesn't loop back upon itself.

actually we dont know that at all.. its just one a few theories out there regarding time.. many scientists actually believe 'time' is circular.. but since time is a singularly human creation, perhaps it doesn't exist at all.

[Yvhuce]

Why do we give weight to anniversaries? It's a uniquely human behavior. As far as we know, scientifically-speaking, time is linear. It doesn't loop back upon itself. Today has no true relation to the same date from last year, nor the year before, nor ten years before that. Yet we all celebrate birthdays, wedding anniversaries, and, yes, sometimes, the anniversaries of loss or traumatic events.

Time, like everything else in the universe is fluid. Some things like black holes can warp time. But otherwise, it is leniar. It began at some point and it will end at some point. Not even time, itself is eternal....

The perception of time as most of us know it is also somewhat different for each person. But time isn't entirely a human concept. There are seasons and other cyclical events that occur. Also, a lot of species have the ability to adjust their habits to accomodate time.

It's not a coincidence that I often saw more coyotes around noonish when I was working ground. They learned that around this time of day, the people controlling the monsterous machines would stop to eat and occasionally toss out some frenchfrys and sausage gravey (and in my case, the over-buttered bread that came with lunch).

My dogs have learned when our usual quitting time is and are usually waiting either in the truck bed, or near the truck at the end of the work day (one of the perks of working out in the country). They've also gotten perty good at figuring out my habits on my days off and tend to not have to bark or scratch at the door to be let in much anymore. Instead, they're usually nearby when I open the door to check on their water.

So, it is possible that anniversaries are actually part of a natural observation of time. If nothing else, they're an ingrained part of humanity. Observing the cycle of the seasons was (and in some cases still is) a matter of survival. Our ancestors began with figuring that out, and then by using it to mark events that had meaning for them. An anniversary is a time to remember that something happened (good, bad, or otherwise significant to us). Humans are emotional creatures... And we tie our emotions to most everything around us, including our sense of time. "Monday" becomes associated with "bad day", for example, because most of us have to work 5 or 6 days a week, starting with monday and ending with either friday or saturday. As such, friday and staturady nights are generally considered the most positve aspects of the week... So, it's entirely possible that logic has to take a backseat to emotion when it comes to the human perception of time. We're not a very logical species, anyway. If we were, there'd be a lot more species still around...

[Nat]

I know I'm bumping this but since you have done your research since then and learned, I don't see why you wouldn't deserve a second chance. I'd say give it another shot raising the kid.