Surgery To Become Incontinent.

[Goerge]

I will most definitely be having this surgery. My enthusiasm is still strong after much thought this last couple of months I now have my itinerary planned out to the dot.

My earliest preparation for this surgery was terrible and by being impatient I never gave it much thought about the consequences when I returned home having to explane to my doctor about my severe stress incontinence and my need for think all in one nappies. I will be unable to lie because the test that I will be required to go though (Cystoscopy) will show scare tissue and severe damage around the sphincterotomy site meaning even more embarrassing questions and possible refusal of free NHS incontinence pads. If I refuse the test I will not be eligible for free pads still.

So its important that before I have this surgery I see my doctor deliberately wearing a wet nappy and make him think he's seen it unintentionally prompting him to asked if I'm experiencing incontinence problems, I will them be made an appointment to see a continence advisor which I will tell I'm urinating ten or more times a day and always wake up wet at night. They will suspect nerve problems and the test would not be able to tell them otherwise. I will then have NHS provision of incontinence pads delivered to my house all though the active period of treatment for up to 3 months to six months till the reassessment and if its decided its all they can do I will be free to have my surgery without fear of being found out. After one year when I have yet anther reassessment I will be totally incontinent dribbling constantly and will be well in rights to rufuse more tests. At this point I will feel comfortably because I will have a true need for nappies and will not milking the system.

Before people start critizing me about getting free nappies of the government I really don't give a grap what you have to say so please don't bother! I'm not incontinent yet but hopfully this time next year I might be, thats if I can wait that long because there'e anther possible road I could go down whcih I may give a tray.

Leaving a folly catheter in my bladder for months (hygienically changing it of course) will totally render my bladder and sphincter completely useless to even empty my bladder at all and they will have to remove the external sphincter leaving me dribbling all the time. But that very risky indeed. I still have not made mind up on this yet but am awear it would only take a matter of months.

[lilwetone]

Leaving a folly catheter in my bladder for months (hygienically changing it of course) will totally render my bladder and sphincter completely useless to even empty my bladder at all and they will have to remove the external sphincter leaving me dribbling all the time. But that very risky indeed. I still have not made mind up on this yet but am awear it would only take a matter of months.

As painful and inconvenient as that sounds, it is probably a better Idea than having a foreign doctor perform surgery on you. maybe cheaper too

[Kooshy]

Leaving a folly catheter in my bladder for months (hygienically changing it of course) will totally render my bladder and sphincter completely useless to even empty my bladder at all and they will have to remove the external sphincter leaving me dribbling all the time. But that very risky indeed. I still have not made mind up on this yet but am awear it would only take a matter of months.

This is nonsense. Having a urethral catheter in situ for a few months will have no effect at all on your long term bladder control.

Your description of the referral system and tertiary management by the urology team is also fairly far off the mark.

If you are going ahead with the surgery (which I really hope you have researched better than these other areas) then make sure you can afford nappies for life.

I could come up with a better plan on the back of a fag packet in 10 minutes but I'm not going to promote self mutilation.

[DL88]

I could come up with a better plan on the back of a fag packet in 10 minutes but I'm not going to promote self mutilation.

lol a good one right Here

[Dill_Pickle]

lol a good one right Here

Or Here!

[Goerge]

Infact the NHS have a legal obligation to provide free incontinence pads to anyone who suffers from incontinence. They even have to supply them while you have tests done to determine your incontinence. Some authorities are tight so one has to really puch them into giving you pads.

[sarah_ab]

has it occured to you that when they cannot find anything physically wrong with you, they most likely will begin to suspect it is psychological? and thus some doctors will refuse to provide any treatment along the lines of pads etc. instead referring you to a psychologist? You have mentioned that you spent time in the foster care system or the uk equivalent and as you were there until you were 21 i think you said, they may have access to any medical records including any psychiatric records you have. Of course you can refuse treatment, but refusing treatment may tip the doctors off to believing there is a reason you do not want your incontinence cured.

And for a doctor, to have a patient who wantsto be incontinent they are going to suspect there is some underlying psychological issue.

I just wanted to make you aware of what could happen, doctors are not quite as dumb as people think they are.

[tenderheart]

has it occured to you that when they cannot find anything physically wrong with you, they most likely will begin to suspect it is psychological?

I just wanted to make you aware of what could happen, doctors are not quite as dumb as people think they are.

Um you also have this *HUGE* thread on a diaper forum about your plan. Not very well thought out. Sarah do people really think doctors are stupid? I mean really a doctor. That isn't a 6 month degree.

[Goerge]

I may just leave my doctor out the equation becasue bringing this subject up will just cause unnecessary hassle. Its not like I can't affort buying my own nappies I just like the idea of being officially registered incontinent.

[sarah_ab]

Um you also have this *HUGE* thread on a diaper forum about your plan. Not very well thought out. Sarah do people really think doctors are stupid? I mean really a doctor. That isn't a 6 month degree.

I was saying that to assume that if a doctor cannot find anything physically wrong with someone to cause, its pretty common for a doctor to reccomend some sort of counseling to see if the incontinence is related to any psychological trauma, so for goerge to assume the doctor will just shrug his/her shoulders and prescribe the pads is a little far fetched.

And yes, lots of people assume doctors will believe anything they tell them.

[Santiago]

You are right - doctors don't believe everything they hear. All patients have the capacity to lie, and the ones with an agenda are easily picked out. There will come a point where the story just does not make sense. Lying by omission or otherwise to get a doc to do something that is unethical in his/her profession is very dishonorable, and a total abuse of the very oath he/she took. Goerge may not see the procedure as harm to him, and may in fact see it as being in his best interest, but under a first do no harm ethos, I very much doubt any respectable doctor would see it that way. This reminds me of the people who have the compulsion to be an amputee - where people begged and pleaded for surgical removal of a limb. Just wrong to use the medical community that way to satisfy what is basically a mental illness.

[BBoy]

It will be interesting to see how doctors treat an issue such as this in about 10 years. Once they understand the treatment OAB and the effects upon the bladder/scphicter muscles I would be surprised if its possible to get a 1 or 2 month treatment.

[DavidMW]

azdl:Just wrong to use the medical community that way to satisfy what is basically a mental illness

so what about gender reassignment surgery? you believe this is wrong for doctors to perfom? if not than whats the difference?

First, George is proposing to misrepresent the situation basically to trick the doctor into the change/into providing diapers at taxpayer expense. That's the misuse of the medical community. Gender reassignment surgery generally happens with the full knowledge and lots of truthful discussion between patient and doctor. And although I don't have firsthand knowledge, I assume that it comes with a fair amount of counseling.

Second, since incontinence is generally considered a medical problem, he's asking doctor's to introduce a medical problem, which goes against the do no harm. Genders aren't considered a medical problem.

If George wants to be incontinent, he should go for it. But he's scheming to get doctors to unwittingly participate in defrauding a taxpayer-funded medical to pay for the consequences of his own choice.

[fairfaxdl]

I will most definitely be having this surgery. My enthusiasm is still strong after much thought this last couple of months I now have my itinerary planned out to the dot.

My earliest preparation for this surgery was terrible and by being impatient I never gave it much thought about the consequences when I returned home having to explane to my doctor about my severe stress incontinence and my need for think all in one nappies. I will be unable to lie because the test that I will be required to go though (Cystoscopy) will show scare tissue and severe damage around the sphincterotomy site meaning even more embarrassing questions and possible refusal of free NHS incontinence pads. If I refuse the test I will not be eligible for free pads still.

So its important that before I have this surgery I see my doctor deliberately wearing a wet nappy and make him think he's seen it unintentionally prompting him to asked if I'm experiencing incontinence problems, I will them be made an appointment to see a continence advisor which I will tell I'm urinating ten or more times a day and always wake up wet at night. They will suspect nerve problems and the test would not be able to tell them otherwise. I will then have NHS provision of incontinence pads delivered to my house all though the active period of treatment for up to 3 months to six months till the reassessment and if its decided its all they can do I will be free to have my surgery without fear of being found out. After one year when I have yet anther reassessment I will be totally incontinent dribbling constantly and will be well in rights to rufuse more tests. At this point I will feel comfortably because I will have a true need for nappies and will not milking the system.

If you plan on creating a history for your medical record, I would suggest seeing if you also try to see if you can get some sort of non-permanent solution at the same time.

[this is completely unethical but…so is your entire idea]

See your doctor with a wet nappy as planned to establish your problem. But a day or so latter, start having episodes where you can’t pee and you must have an emergency cath to relieve the pressure. Since you are in control, if it gets too hard to hold, you can always just let it go –especially while in the ER waiting room. If you do this a couple of times you could probably have them treat you with something like botox to prevent any retention. To add realism, you can have some “accidents” that come on without any warning.

This creates a serious history with a need for immediate care. The good thing about is that it is virtually impossible to prove that it isn’t real. The seriousness of it may mean that you could get the botox or other treatment without any invasive or long bladder tests. You may even be able to get some form or more permanent surgery as needed.

While this is unethical, it may be safer than going to Thailand and dealing with any health issues in a foreign country.

But you may not have to go this far. If you were willing to pay 7000 Pounds to have it done, you could probably find someone who would do it in your country for a fee. There are a lot of doctors who will do pretty much anything and your though strange is not as strange as some requests.

[Santiago]

First, George is proposing to misrepresent the situation basically to trick the doctor into the change/into providing diapers at taxpayer expense. That's the misuse of the medical community. Gender reassignment surgery generally happens with the full knowledge and lots of truthful discussion between patient and doctor. And although I don't have firsthand knowledge, I assume that it comes with a fair amount of counseling.

Second, since incontinence is generally considered a medical problem, he's asking doctor's to introduce a medical problem, which goes against the do no harm. Genders aren't considered a medical problem.

I could not have said it better, thanks

[ColinDL]

I have to say, and generally I'm supportive and open minded, what you suggested here... it is insane.

I just think getting surgery in Thailand to irreparably damage yourself is nuts. I think you should go see a shrink about it.

[BriGuy]

Im still not understanding why he doesn't just wear until he has lost control. Has worked for others, cheaper and easier than ruining your body....

[Santiago]

Yeah I saw those guys on some TV news magazine once. I very much disagree with removing or destroying the normal function of a healthy body part and physicians should have no part of it. Amputee wannabees and the original poster have a mental illness whether they see it that way or not. At least though the amputee wannabees are up front about their wishes and are not trying to deceive the physician or swindle the system. Nevertheless, it is a mental illness - they should not get their wish for an elective amputation. We all have live and cope with what we have or don't have - so sack up and deal with having a normal functioning body.

[Goerge]

I just want to thank everybody who has taken the time to post an answer to my question no matter what you opinions was. Although I have not been completely honest regarding my lifestyle with you. I am actually in the position where I don't need tests or psycho-evaluation to determine any cause of incontinence in the UK meaning I will get free pads, although I was looking at alternative possibilities.

I have a date set for the 5th December when I will have this simple operation done and hopefully I will not experience any complications although from speaking to the people involved I have nothing to be worried about. This will be the beginning of my new life.

Thanks most people for the private messaging supporting my decision. I will be makng a new thread on how you can archive this yourselves.

[diaperpt]

Yeah I saw those guys on some TV news magazine once. I very much disagree with removing or destroying the normal function of a healthy body part and physicians should have no part of it. Amputee wannabees and the original poster have a mental illness whether they see it that way or not. At least though the amputee wannabees are up front about their wishes and are not trying to deceive the physician or swindle the system. Nevertheless, it is a mental illness - they should not get their wish for an elective amputation. We all have live and cope with what we have or don't have - so sack up and deal with having a normal functioning body.

...how I hate prolonging this thread!!!....but this is another twist and angle on the whole thing, so....

Isn't it true that before people are allowed to undergo sexual reassignment surgery they are required to go through a certain amount of counselling? This would be to assure doctors and themselves that this is truly what they want to do...maybe someone on the site who has undergone this might want to comment from a first hand point of view. I would hope that a doctor being asked to remove an arm, a leg, or one's continence might also require some amount of counselling for the very same reasons.

None of this sort of thing is for just anyone with a small fetish or passing desire. On the other hand, I don't think it's up to any one of us - or committee via our responses in a particular thread - to judge George or anyone else. It's clear that the upside and certainly downside of his choice has been addressed here - and rightly so - but unless we've been trained as a mental health professional, we probably ought to avoid calling someone who wants a limb removed - someone who feels trapped in the wrong body - or someone who wants to be incontinent - mentally ill. Of course it isn't 'normal'...that is falling within the 'norms' of society...so what!?! If it does truly help them feel 'right' about themselves, maybe it is the best for them.

George, I'm sure we are ALL looking forward to hearing how the surgery goes...good luck!!

diaperpt

[Santiago]

I am going to stand on my position and call it mentally ill. Just because the culture of anti-judgement says it is wrong to take a stand, does not make it so. Also, this is issue is further complicated by the ethics of the medical community, and so is not merely as simple as "let's not judge" and allowing people to feel right about themselves regardless of the medical ethics construct.

[Goerge]

Diaperpt........ You are absolutely right in saying people who desire sexual reassignment surgery require extensive counselling by a trained psychiatrist but can you really say the same for an individual who wishes to become incontinent? Sex change surgery is more invasive and will permanent disfigure a individual not only mental but physical, same can be said for people who suffer from Body Integrity Identity Disorder (BIID).

I feel its alot different for people like myself who want to become incontinent. Only your urine sphincter muscle is completely severed by a simple operation which takes place while your awake resulting in non stop dribbling. Yes you will be incontinent for the rest of your life but its not as dermatic as the above two. I want to be incontinent and before I researched having a sphincterotomy I would of carried on deliberately damagings both my sphincters. I don't suffer from mental illness nor do I want this because of sexual needs. I have wanted this since a very young child.

You all can judge and and call abnormal because I'm different amd have different needs then yourselfs. Look at it this way. I don't dress and act like a baby. I do have very different needs like many people who visit this great site have, I don't want to feel like a minority when I know for a fact I'm not.

[Santiago]

I don't care what your reasons are (mentally ill or not), you are not the same as someone looking for sexual re-alignment surgery, and the fact remains you are deceiving the healthcare community into doing something that is unethical to the profession.

[InD]

I've already stated support for this idea so I'm not going to add to that. What I wanted to suggest is a new idea. Instead of this being related to our diaper / adult baby lifestyle why not look at it as a "body integrity identity disorder". From biid.org: "Body Integrity Identity Disorder, or BIID, is a psychological condition in which the individual requests an elective amputation. ". While in general this "disorder" (I disagree with that term) address external limbs is the desire to alter one's body internally that much different?

This was a pretty good article: http://www.newsweek.com/id/138932

Only a few more weeks to go! Please let us know how things turn out And good luck with everything.

InD

[Brudda Voodu]

For the love of god! If this guy wants to be incontinent then let him. Why are we so god damn judgmental? Yeah yeah your taxes are wasted on this guy scamming free diapers, who gives a shit? Think about all the money wasted on shitty government spending, this guys diapers are pretty small change. He's the one gonna go through it, if he's happy with wet pants 100% of the time that's his issue and not mine. Frankly I dont care if its real, fake or if he's making a bad choice. His posts are entertaining and judging by the quantity of replies to this thread and the time it has remained on the top of the topic pile others think so too. So either stop posting and let it die or go read something else. Leave the guy alone for fucks sakes and let him post his interests without being called a freak isnt that why we all came here in the first place?

Voodu