Surgery To Become Incontinent.

[Goerge]

With all due respect DL88 you might of perhaps noticed this is the Incontinent desires message board exclusively for people who want to ask questions on becoming incontinent. If this is beyond a fetish I would assume I'll be the only one wanting this but I can figure you already know thats their are many wanting this. From what you wrote you are contradicting yourself, you are trying achieve becoming incontinent by wearing diapers 24/7 and shrinking your bladder down so you get urge incontinence and eventually so your sphincter muscles will atrophy. This will intentionally render YOU permanently incontinent and cripple you for life. Although I'm totally sure it will take many many years to achieve this level of incontinence if at all? I'm taking a route which is safe and reliable which will result in the same result. As for going to Thailand to catch hundreds of millions of diseases I think you have many prejudices about asian hospitals perhaps from you're lack of understanding. You probeley have never been to one.

[DiaperBoyKR]

From what you wrote you are contradicting yourself, you are trying achieve becoming incontinent by wearing diapers 24/7 and shrinking your bladder down so you get urge incontinence and eventually so your sphincter muscles will atrophy. This will intentionally render YOU permanently incontinent and cripple you for life. Although I'm totally sure it will take many many years to achieve this level of incontinence if at all? I'm taking a route which is safe and reliable which will result in the same result. As for going to Thailand to catch hundreds of millions of diseases I think you have many prejudices about asian hospitals perhaps from you're lack of understanding. You probeley have never been to one.

Have to agree with you here Goerge about the quality of the Asian hospitals....usually they are of equal or better quality than many of the hospitals in the US or the UK. There is a persisting view of the Asian area as a third world area, but this is far from the case, especially in countries like Korea, Thailand, and Japan. Doctors are well-trained and are very reliable. Care is usually cheaper because cost inputs are cheaper. The derogatory view that is held by many on the quality of care in Asia is not deserved.

I would recommend just telling them the truth. Doctors would be able to see through any bullshit you would give them or other reason that you would try to tell them. Telling them the truth is probably the best option, especially with Thai surgeons as you had mentioned before. They do SRS on a regular basis, and with none of the psychological/living requirements that the equivalent surgeons in the US require. They arn't as concerned with why you are having surgery done as they are with completing it and getting paid for it. The biggest danger isn't during the surgery, but afterwards once you're discharged. Just make sure to take care of yourself after the fact.

I understand where you are coming from, and if you are truly decided on this course, I wish you luck. I have been considering retraining myself to full bladder incont myself, as I feel that is what I want, but I really don't want to make a permanent choice, so I've been looking at the longer methods.

[DL88]

With all due respect DL88 you might of perhaps noticed this is the Incontinent desires message board exclusively for people who want to ask questions on becoming incontinent. If this is beyond a fetish I would assume I'll be the only one wanting this but I can figure you already know thats their are many wanting this. From what you wrote you are contradicting yourself, you are trying achieve becoming incontinent by wearing diapers 24/7 and shrinking your bladder down so you get urge incontinence and eventually so your sphincter muscles will atrophy. This will intentionally render YOU permanently incontinent and cripple you for life. Although I'm totally sure it will take many many years to achieve this level of incontinence if at all? I'm taking a route which is safe and reliable which will result in the same result. As for going to Thailand to catch hundreds of millions of diseases I think you have many prejudices about asian hospitals perhaps from you're lack of understanding. You probeley have never been to one.

Dude I told you not to reply to me but you did, and on top of it you actually tried to make yourself seem like "a thinker." On one note I have to thank you for using proper grammar usage. But here we go. First off, ya this is incon. desires and I realize that, but no, me posting on here doesn't mean jack shit dude. For myself, I identify myself as a bladder incon. person so I already accept that and I am perfectly fine with that as I am already living 24/7. Now pay attention because I'm gonna compond this ok! Your statement of:

As for going to Thailand to catch hundreds of millions of diseases I think you have many prejudices about asian hospitals perhaps from you're lack of understanding. You probeley have never been to one.

This is a pathetic excuse to try to discredit me through no actual viable proof or evidence that will hold. I have nothing against asians in general but I do have something against 2nd world places that only rode the coattails of countries like mine. If you forgot about this, people come from all over the world to get medical treatment in the US. Like comedian Dave Chappelle said to Operah "Who would go to africa for medical care??" It doesn't come from a lack of understanding, in fact, it comes from a complete understanding of what the way of life is like over there. Japan is a very nice place, as I have LIVED THERE FOR 2 YEARS (oh wow that totally blows your last statement out of the water didn't it). thailand is a place that is very unsanitary and millions is not the actual number; however, due to their inferior quality of sanitation and care that is in many other countries such as all of Europe, Russia, Japan, and the US you can contract, quite easily with any surgery, thousands of diseases.

(now here is where things get rough for you)

Since I have just discredited all of your arguements lemme take some jabs here. Even though most people here have incontinence desires we eighter never act on them or take the safest measures (i.e. stop using the toilet). You, however, are intent of lettin some surgeon from some foreign country that isn't renowned for its medicine rip up your insides for cheap. NO self-respecting or REAL Doctor would ever consider something like this; infact, Doctors anywhere else in the world would probably have their medical license taken away from them for even considering something like this. Oh wait, prolly the same there too, but wait again, YOU HAVE NO INTENTION OF TELLING THEM THE REAL REASON WHY YOU ARE DOING THIS, YOU, STUPID, FUCK. What you think they aren't going to check you out before you have surgery or ask any questions?? When you get back to your GP and you all of the sudden have no bladder control how will you explain that?? You think your GP will do nothing about it???

I'm STILL taking it easy on you, but you are fucking both stupid and insane if you think that not only this is a good decision but you are gonna sit here and argue it. I'm done with this post, do not reply to me dumbass, let this thread die if you know what is best.

If you really want a knife stuck up your dick that bad then take a kitchen knife and do it jackhole, otherwise do it the safe way and and just wear until you lose control. Also YES, you need help because of how far you are willing to go to hurt yourself. The BDSM community get off to pain,bondage, and other stuff and yes sometimes they do hurt eachother for sexual gratification, but show me 1 BDSM person that has actually castrated themself because they liked it. I am a firm believer in Social Darwinism, and if you even go through with this I'm pretty sure you have a good chance of earning the Darwin Award for the year (and no that is not a good thing).

[DL88]

Have to agree with you here Goerge about the quality of the Asian hospitals....usually they are of equal or better quality than many of the hospitals in the US or the UK. There is a persisting view of the Asian area as a third world area, but this is far from the case, especially in countries like Korea, Thailand, and Japan. Doctors are well-trained and are very reliable. Care is usually cheaper because cost inputs are cheaper. The derogatory view that is held by many on the quality of care in Asia is not deserved.

I would recommend just telling them the truth. Doctors would be able to see through any bullshit you would give them or other reason that you would try to tell them. Telling them the truth is probably the best option, especially with Thai surgeons as you had mentioned before. They do SRS on a regular basis, and with none of the psychological/living requirements that the equivalent surgeons in the US require. They arn't as concerned with why you are having surgery done as they are with completing it and getting paid for it. The biggest danger isn't during the surgery, but afterwards once you're discharged. Just make sure to take care of yourself after the fact.

I understand where you are coming from, and if you are truly decided on this course, I wish you luck. I have been considering retraining myself to full bladder incont myself, as I feel that is what I want, but I really don't want to make a permanent choice, so I've been looking at the longer methods.

And KR, Korea and Japan DO have good medical care, t-land however fails. I have nothing against asains and if you think I do then thanks bashing me on some stupidasses unfounded statements.

[Sophie ♥]

What the hell DL88. First of all, i was rather polite with the whole "please" thing, so if you choose to disrespect my remark then by all means go ahead and speak your mind. But really, you're that immature to call me names just because I told you to shut up? And you have no right to decide what George "needs" whether it be professional help or something different. Only George and possibly a lisenced medic or psychologist could tell him what he "needs". This is obviously more than just some fetish to him.

So really, if you truly desire, go ahead and act like a jackass with your namecalling. It only makes others disrespect you and value your opinion that much less.

-Sophie

[DL88]

What the hell DL88. First of all, i was rather polite with the whole "please" thing, so if you choose to disrespect my remark then by all means go ahead and speak your mind. But really, you're that immature to call me names just because I told you to shut up? And you have no right to decide what George "needs" whether it be professional help or something different. Only George and possibly a lisenced medic or psychologist could tell him what he "needs". This is obviously more than just some fetish to him.

So really, if you truly desire, go ahead and act like a jackass with your namecalling. It only makes others disrespect you and value your opinion that much less.

-Sophie

Sophie I apologize as I was partially kidding with you, and no he does need to see someone about his mental health, enough said. Also the name calling isn't immature, it is just sometime that hopefully knocks some sence into people. Something that is really immature is you supporting someone in hurting themself. Somewhere down the line you will realize that minor insults like calling people immature really won't work at all and it really doesn't matter what people think of me. What people think of you is something only immature people care about, maybe you should remember that.

[BabyThorp]

Well.......let the crap fly at me for a while. George, I support you. If you want to do this, and you are waiting until November, then do it. My biggest issue here is actually all the replies that consider this a fetish. Oh yeah there are some elements that would lead you in that direction but my personal opinion is that this isn't something that we can help or stop. You will be extremely uncomfortable if you try. Think about maybe a little as 10 years ago when "gayness" was thought to be something that was a choice and could be reversed by intense intervention from the church. Right! So let's take that a step farther. Why do "gays" now have to get married? It's the same driven thing. It's built in. It can't be helped. George this is going to gnaw at you until you get it done. Do it! Yes there is a downside. But ultimately it DOES make you a baby. Babies can't wear under pants, they wear diapers because if they didn't they would wet all over. It isn't really whether you want to wet of not. It's more important that this decision is no longer your's. I get it. I understand. You won't be in diapers because you want to be but because if you don't you will wet your pants.

And here's another thing. I hate all this reference to incontinence. George is going to be a bedwetter and a pants wetter. Incontinence is a word that the medical community came up with to make this more clinical and less babyish. Let's face it. Most of the world learns to not wet the bed and their pants. And if YOU do then you are babyish. Accept it for what it is. This is babyish behavior.

Finally, George isn't crazy. For a while I actually considered whether I should do this. I decided it wouldn't work for me. BUT...I considered it. I'm still intrigued by this botox thing. I can't imagine any medical professional doing this but it's an intriguing idea if it is real.

Baby

[BabyThorp]

Sophie I apologize as I was partially kidding with you, and no he does need to see someone about his mental health, enough said. Also the name calling isn't immature, it is just sometime that hopefully knocks some sence into people. Something that is really immature is you supporting someone in hurting themself. Somewhere down the line you will realize that minor insults like calling people immature really won't work at all and it really doesn't matter what people think of me. What people think of you is something only immature people care about, maybe you should remember that.

Personally, I consider being called immature as a complement. My parent calls me that all the time. In fact sometimes she goes into excruciating detail about why I am immature.

[DL88]

Personally, I consider being called immature as a complement. My parent calls me that all the time. In fact sometimes she goes into excruciating detail about why I am immature.

lol. That makes me chuckle

[FretaBWet]

George, This is an interesting thread you've started. If you read through the posts it seems that you have some people that are for you and some that are against you. The irony is that the people who seem to be against you are being just as supportive as the people standing up for you. They are concerned for your safety and how you will cope with your decision down the road and many understand it's a long road and the view changes as you travel it. Like them I think this is a mistake, I say this because if I told you something else it would be a lie. I'm not saying it to hurt your feelings, I'm saying it because I don't want any harm to come to you. I don't get the feeling that this will deter you any but I had to say it anyway. I think when you get to the surgeon's office for the procedure you will find that all your concern for reasons and excuses for this surgery were unneeded. These surgeons do what they do for the money. There's plenty of them here in America too. When you lay out the cash and he says no problem just remember it's not too late for you to change your mind. You'll still have a nice vacation to show for it and plenty of cash for diapers when you get home.

Hugs,

Freta

[DL88]

George, This is an interesting thread you've started. If you read through the posts it seems that you have some people that are for you and some that are against you. The irony is that the people who seem to be against you are being just as supportive as the people standing up for you. They are concerned for your safety and how you will cope with your decision down the road and many understand it's a long road and the view changes as you travel it. Like them I think this is a mistake, I say this because if I told you something else it would be a lie. I'm not saying it to hurt your feelings, I'm saying it because I don't want any harm to come to you. I don't get the feeling that this will deter you any but I had to say it anyway. I think when you get to the surgeon's office for the procedure you will find that all your concern for reasons and excuses for this surgery were unneeded. These surgeons do what they do for the money. There's plenty of them here in America too. When you lay out the cash and he says no problem just remember it's not too late for you to change your mind. You'll still have a nice vacation to show for it and plenty of cash for diapers when you get home.

Hugs,

Freta

That was a very nice post Freta and it inspires me to post this. I am sorry for goin all up in arms and stuff and offending some people and you George. Like Freta said, I am just concerned about your safety and would like to see you pursue your goal by different means. This is the last post I'll do on this thread, so again Sorry to George, Sophie, and KR. I just want ya to be safe and not do anything immediatly irreversable that you might regret. Have a great vaca though George!

[Sophie ♥]

DL88, thanks for apologizing. I sometimes take things too seriously, sorry for snapping.

I'm not supportive of him hurting himself. I am completely against the operation. But i am trying to keep the thread on the topic at hand. He didn't ask us to ramble on about why he shouldn't do it. He was just asking what he should tell the doctors. I was just trying to stay on topic is all.

And I care a lot about what people think of me, and I know i do. I enjoy being liked and if that makes me immature then i'll live with the title. It's who i am after all.

-Sophie

[Sophie ♥]

Oh... nine minutes too late. I hope he gets the apology anyway.

Also now that i read through Freta's post... that's pretty much what I was going for. Everyone else was giving enough concern for the guy... i was just trying to get the topic back on track so he wasn't slandered anymore. I suppose that's further concern though. I just dont like the word "crazy" for following what you truly want.

I think this will be my last post too.

My idea... do what you think will make you happy... but when/if the day comes that your thoughts change on the situation... please try not to regret what you've decided to do. Regret makes all your happy memories fade away.

-Sophie

[doorset]

i think the ducks right

any thing that hurts anyone is not good i can see just wearing diaper 24/7 but this is spending tons of money that your lucky enuff to have and hurting yourself nomater how you look at it

i live with pain every day i cant see why any one would hurt themselfs on perpose

but thats me

do what you thinks right but please try to do it in a way that hurts no one

doorset

[Knuxie Fawks]

Tell the doctor the truth. If the doctor decides against doing it, then just let it drop and possibly look at other solutions. I've read all the other posts, and this is all I'm going to say.

[tommee]

If I were you, I'd spend that 7 grand on nappies, I'm sure you'd be almost definetly incontinent after all those.

Nappies are expensive, and after you've blown £7000 on surgery, what are you going to lose control into?

[ranger]

I operate several types of lasers in a hospital. I have seen a sphincterotomy performed with a laser that has the best coagulation of any laser around. The patient bled horribly. The doctor (one of the best I work with) had to use a resectoscope to slow the bleeding and the patient had to stay in the hospital just like after a turp. Did I mention the doctor fired the laser for only about 15 seconds? The doctor said this procedure rarely works and the only reason he was attempting it was that the patient was paralyzed from the neck down and there were issues with using catheders. Also, this prcedure can affect the bundle of nerves that allow you to get an erection.

So, bottom line is this: If you want to risk your sex life, your health, and possibly your life in general, go for it. Let us know how it turns out. Otherwise, just wear a diaper go whenever, and eventually you'll probably lose control anyway. Now I'll get off of my soapbox and answer your question. You have two options:

1. Make up a story and lie. If it is a good enough story the doc won't see through it and do the procedure.

2. Tell the truth, maybe the doc will do it for the money.

Either way, I would not want either of those guys cutting on me.

[froggy]

If you think that you want surgery to become incintinent, check yourself into a mental hospital. You are truely looney toons. It is one thing as a fantasy. I know no one who is incontinent that would wish it on anybody.

Froggy

[BabyThorp]

I operate several types of lasers in a hospital. I have seen a sphincterotomy performed with a laser that has the best coagulation of any laser around. The patient bled horribly. The doctor (one of the best I work with) had to use a resectoscope to slow the bleeding and the patient had to stay in the hospital just like after a turp. Did I mention the doctor fired the laser for only about 15 seconds? The doctor said this procedure rarely works and the only reason he was attempting it was that the patient was paralyzed from the neck down and there were issues with using catheders. Also, this prcedure can affect the bundle of nerves that allow you to get an erection.

So, bottom line is this: If you want to risk your sex life, your health, and possibly your life in general, go for it. Let us know how it turns out. Otherwise, just wear a diaper go whenever, and eventually you'll probably lose control anyway. Now I'll get off of my soapbox and answer your question. You have two options:

1. Make up a story and lie. If it is a good enough story the doc won't see through it and do the procedure.

2. Tell the truth, maybe the doc will do it for the money.

Either way, I would not want either of those guys cutting on me.

OK, tommy and george. I normally wouldn't use the thread for this but it seems to be almost at an end and now my parent has blocked my access to private messages because I'm not supposed to be emailing without permission. From an earlier reply it looks like this procedure is only for one of the two sphincter muscles? So this one gets severed to the extent that it can't make a seal and then why doesn't the other sphincter keep you from leaking? Do you need both functioning to keep from dribbling in your pants. And how is this different than when you are older and dribble in your pants?

On another similar note, maybe 10 years ago, I went to a hypnotist. This was a person who had credentials and a regular office and profession as a hypnotist. I wanted really badly to wet the bed. I wet the bed as a child to the extent that one summer when I was 7 or maybe it was 8 my mother put me in diapers and plastic pants all summer. That's another story and only happened because I had started coming home from school with wet pants after dribbling in them. But anyway, for whatever reason I was never really very good at staying dry or learning the potty training rules or whatever and I wet the bed maybe every month or so...sometimes maybe 6 months. I didn't wear diapers and I actually wet the bed. I struggled with my identity all those years and would purge/binge on diapers, just diapers. Later I decided to stop denying myself. I accepted myself. Then I wanted to wet the bed every night and have to put myself in diapers. I got every hypnotism tape I could find. I listened to them. I followed the instructions. I went on to the next tape. Sometimes several tapes at once. Sometimes it seemed like it was working and then other times not. Finally I went to this hypnotist. She was very concerned that I wanted it permanent. We discussed it and came up with the agreement that I wouldn't be able to potty train myself and that I would have to go through the process very similar to potty training as a child with a mommy figure guiding me. I kind of coached all this along with discussions of not being able to properly potty train at the appropriate age and wanting to try it again. I also don't remember exactly what I told her was the reason I needed this but is was something about prostate issues and needing to void at night because I wasn't able to during the day. Whatever I said worked because she accepted me and once a week for 4 times I showed up. It sort of seemed like I was awake and aware the whole time but she said I was definitely under. It didn't seem like it at all to me but it seemed like we did the same thing every time and then she told me no that each session was very different. She told me it was really about giving myself permission to wet. I wet the bed like once after the first session. I was very disappointed. After the second time, I wet the bed three times and started wearing diapers nightly. Even after 4 times I still wasn't wetting every night. But by the end of 3 or 4 months I was and I've never had a dry night since. For a while I was having trouble not leaking in the bed. I was wear a night weight cloth diaper and plastic pants. The my mommy realized what was wrong. Babies wear double diapers at night. I think it was from that point forward that I began to identify with being a baby. I realized that baby clothes aren't just made to be cute. They are made to accommodate baby behavior. My parent realized this about the same time. I got snap crotch pants and other clothes for babies.

Bottom line, I gave up denying who I am. I accept that I am a baby. Normal in every way except I got stuck in this big body.

Best of luck George. Keep up posted.

Baby

[Diaper666]

i would sue the doctor for even allowing an attempt on doing something like this why because its for one UN ETHICAL and should be AGAINST THE LAW even though your not in the USA he should be disbarred for doing a stupid surgery like that ...i mean hell just buy some nappies i mean after awhile for me wearing them just as another underwear fetish i eventually got the courage to use them for what they were hell i was even lucky enough to have a girlfriend change me i mean come on man don't waist your money on STUPID SHIT LIKE that man hell like every on here said just use that money to by nappies and if any one asks you tell them you have an elderly grand parent at home and there for them no one needs to know who there for other than that hell last time my girlfriend bought some diapers she bought some for her kid (not mine though) and then bought me a pack and no one even asked her about them and we wear the same size diaper .so just buy your self some and save some time and trouble

[AndB]

I'll just add my thoughts --

It is definitely difficult to live with a desire for incontinence, and it is also difficult to actually be incontinent. When I started having incontinence problems, I chose not to take the drugs. Partially because I like diapers, but also because I didn't want to add more chemicals to my body. I didn't want to screw with my body because incontinence was inconvenient. When considering surgery like this, I'd have to say it's a bad idea to screw with your body because you like diapers.

I also found that wearing diapers all the time is not all it's cracked up to be by ABs or DLs who don't have to. On the other hand, it's not that bad either, and it's the best choice for me. To anyone who wants this, I'd say to just wear diapers 24/7. You may find it's not that great and want to stop -- and you'll be able to make that choice. You may find it's the best choice for you, and you'll be living the life you are choosing -- one of incontinence. You may also start to slowly lose some control. I have, and yet I know that I can re-train my muscles and go back if I want to -- but then why would I want to?

[InD]

i would sue the doctor for even allowing an attempt on doing something like this why because its for one UN ETHICAL and should be AGAINST THE LAW even though your not in the USA he should be disbarred for doing a stupid surgery like that ...i mean hell just buy some nappies i mean after awhile for me wearing them just as another underwear fetish i eventually got the courage to use them for what they were hell i was even lucky enough to have a girlfriend change me i mean come on man don't waist your money on STUPID SHIT LIKE that man hell like every on here said just use that money to by nappies and if any one asks you tell them you have an elderly grand parent at home and there for them no one needs to know who there for other than that hell last time my girlfriend bought some diapers she bought some for her kid (not mine though) and then bought me a pack and no one even asked her about them and we wear the same size diaper .so just buy your self some and save some time and trouble

Dude... take a break. Relax, go back to school or something. I just don't know where to start with the stupidity of this message.

The US has nothing to do with this. The guys is going from the UK to Thai... the US has no management or regulation inside of either of these countries.

The procedure is a normal medical one. Why should the doc be sued (so sue happy you Americans). It's the patient who is going there under false pretenses.

Lastly, it's lawyers who are disbarred, not doctors.

InD

[InD]

George,

I think what you are doing is a good idea if it is what you want. From your post on this thread it does sound like you have given this a lot of thought. I would hope / suggest you have spent a least a few months diapered 24/7 to ensure this is what you really want. Someone else mentioned using a catheter as well. I'd take a look at trying a catheter for a few days or more. Sure you will likely get a UTI, but that is easily treated and much less of a risk by comparison. After a few months of 24/7 and a couple of weekly attempts with full no control via the catheter you'd have a very good idea of what you are facing.

I've been using catheters for years for this type of play. Usually only a couple of days at a time to avoid UTIs. This surgery intrigues me very much. I hope you continue to write about your progress and even share with us who is doing the procedure and how it went.

As for the naysayers... meh.. f**k em. It's your body. As long as you have thought it through and done the research go for it. They are either jealous or safety police who like to try and control others. Don't forget, a lost of westerners (and especially Americans) don't know squat about geography (

) and while their dollar circles the drain they still like to think that the rest of the world is fair beneath them. A quick bit of research shows Thailand's medical offerings are pretty impressive.

InD

[littlebabymelly]

George,

Firstly; I think that you are very brave to consider doing this and asking for opinions on this subject. I think you knew that it would spark controversy, and that is what you need, you need the good the bad and unfortunatly the downright ugly. This will enable you to make a balanced and mature decision.

In response to your post; like many others on here it sparks quite raw emotions, personally. A friend of mine has been incontinent for most of his life, last year he had an operation on his bladder, to help him to regain some control. This worked but he since has developed a tumour that is now threatening his life. On a daily basis I see how incontinence affects his whole life, but I do not see the half of it and I know that he struggles far more than anyone really can conceivably give him credit for.

I think the reasons that it does spark raw emotion in so many people is because of what you intend to do to your body, I see my friends daily struggle and would not wish that on anyone, ever. I'm sure that others also see this or experience it themselves and thus they reply with passin and vigour, even if thats not really going to help. I can understand this passion, as I can understand why a person perhaps, over time, wearing diapers 24/7, but to do this willingly to your own body, seems somehow bizarre, on the other hand to some piercings are damaging and bizarre, yet that is socially somewhat acceptable, plus you can remove them and in a lot of cases they heal over. Like choosing to wear 24/7, you can regain control with practice in most cases, and so a person can choose to live 24/7 or not. Then as some have mentioned the BDSM community, some choose to live as a slave 24/7, some get involved with harmful play which can case medical issues to arise, however some dont and enjoy it here and there, again its personal choice. To some its wierd, looney or irrational, to others its the norm and how they want to be. Yet we have to understand, that to some this action is upsetting and will provoke interesting debate.

Something to consider are the reasons why it is not available in this country. You can talk to a doctor annonymously if you wish, ask to see your GP off the record, discuss why the GMC do not allow this. Is it illegal and if so then why - laws are there to protect people, we may not always agree with them but they do act as a guide. If doctors wont perform the surgery then why not? There has to be reasons behind this, some may help you gain more perspective on this subject. It could be because of the risks and complications, if so you need to visit the hospital before you hand over any money and look at the difference between a NHS hosptial and the one you are going to - look at the theatres etc, ask for qualifications....forearmed is forwarned. In this country you could go to a councellor - like with patients undergoing gender re-assignment surgery - and ensure that this is what you want and the only option available to you. Surgery always carries risks, you could be having open heart surgery or having your tonsils removed, its always dangerous. You should also get yourself a medical before you go, ensure that you are in peak condition before you have this done.

Long term, well, I would not want to be in your shoes, Im glad I have choice, if I lost that then life would change dramatically, I would cope, but Im glad that I do not have to deal with that, I understand that some people want and like it, but its not for me. I wish you luck, I hope you do come to a balanced decision and I hope this thread has helped other people considering this, to really look at the range of argumnets for and against this course action. I just wish that you would exhaust all other options before you opt to have this proceedure and see it as the only available option cos you have tried everything else. If you have till later in the year start wearing diapers 24/7, get used to it and see what happens, it could save you a lot of money and health risks. I dont know if u do this but if not then why not?

Anyway; good luck and peace out, tis your life and your money, lifes too long to not follow your dreams.

[Goerge]

I really do appreciate everybody's replies no matter how unhelpful they where. I know wanting to be permanently incontinent may be perceived as

extremely foolish and extreme but after years of contemplation and a strong willingness to achieve total incontinence by any means necessary I have concluded this is the only safe way without damaging other parts of my body, I would of done anything impulsively to archive incontinence only to regret it later, the thoughts I was having where truly insane which I'm reluctant to say here. If not for this procedure I would of done somthing truly stupid.

I AM going to finally become incontinent after all these years with a simple procedure. I have a date set early November whith the best intersex surgeon in Thailand and with in the best equipped hospital. Unexpectedly I have not had to disclose too much information after explaining why I want the procedure done, only that I have Body Integrity Identity Disorder and if not for this procedure I will find other unconventional and possible harmful methods other then this surgery.