This Is An Adult Website

[underwhere]

I'm not going to go into the details of what originated this post. Frankly, those details came to me second hand, and although actions have since probably proven the validity of those details, that is not the point of this post.

Lets be fully honest with what we know to be true:

A ) It's not just adults who are interested in this stuff. Lord knows I was interested in this stuff LONG before I turned 18, though I was unwilling to admit it to anybody, and frankly, I think I was afraid to admit it to myself. I was NOT in the business of posting about it back then, but if you don't think I read about such things despite such prohibitions (and I don't think I'm alone in that), then I have a bridge to sell you.

B ) There are very few websites catering to people with interests relating to AB/DL. I'm sure there are plenty of reasons for this ranging from lack of interest (both time and monetary) to develop/maintain/advertise such sites to the various legal matters increasingly being forced upon websites catering to "adult content" by the same ilk who believe that censorship is valid simply because they find certain content "objectionable" however they choose to define that term at any specific moment in time.

C ) There are even fewer websites which cater to such interests pertaining to those who happen to be under the "legal age", whatever that happens to be in your particular country. (It is different from country to country, and for simplicity, I realize website owners must adhere to their particular locale, but it is interesting to note that a person might be doing something perfectly legal and above board where they reside but not in the location where the website is located.)

D ) Despite the best efforts of this community, for whatever reasons one wishes to state, nobody can actually "prevent" "underage people" from signing up for an account here and interacting on this website without unreasonable expense monetarily as well as with regard to time and logistical considerations. It's just not possible to do.

Currently, the solution offered is to require that all participants in this community must be at least 18 years of age or older. When somebody is found to be younger than that, actions are taken and (I presume) the person is, or will be, banned.

I want to address a different question, though: As a community of similarly interested people who, as individuals, often receive a great deal of prejudice and misinformation being perpetuated about our own interests, do we not have an obligation to support such people, regardless of their age, in their own explorations? Perhaps this is not the right place to do so, but surely, there should be some place to do so. How could one, how could we as a community, go about doing so and still remain legally and morally above water? Is this even possible to do? If not, should we just continue to pretend that people magically develop such interests on the day of their 18th birthday?

[Hunter1076]

people who are AB/DL are not that way until age 18....

Thank god for that....

And thats the way it should be..

If it were my site it would be 21 when people decide they are AB/DL, and never before then, Be happy DD lets it happen sooner.

Period

[messyman]

I don't think you could legally do it now. DPF had a teen baby section for years, but if it had not fallen into disrepair I suspect it would have been shut down. The moderated board was pretty well moderated but the chat was a free for all. There were forty year old men that admitted their age.

[singner]

Alas, this is where the whole "responsible parenting" bid comes into play and though it would not be at all wise for DD to so much as attempt to offer said services to underaged persons, due to picture content, we need not forget that any male, at least, who is interested and searching is bound to find www dot [That site] dot com. No objectionable photos, just textual content which parents are in charge of monitoring.

[squashNstretch]

I like it the way it is. I think its nessesary in the AB community to have an area for those that are 18 and older (I think 18 is a good age). This is an interest that many (most?) have a sexual link to as well. There are plenty of other places for those younger than 18 to go to discuss their AB feelings without having to sneak in here. Having an adults only site also helps show the rest of the world that being an adult baby has nothing to do with kids.

The first time some 12 gets into a sexual chat with an adult thats an AB, it certainly would brand us all. I would hate to see this site do the way of DFP, or worse, [That OTHER site]... Just a thought.

[PampersPete]

I'm not going to go into the details of what originated this post.

Then why bring it up?

[sarah_ab]

Yes, it is true there are many teens out there who have discovered they have an interest in aspects of the ab/dl lifestyle. However, for many on this site and off, this is a sexual fetish. For many of those teens i'm sure it aroses sexual feelings for them as well. The reason this site is at 18 and older i believe, is not just to placate lawmakers, but to protect young children and teenages (who time and again prove they are not the wisest of choice makes, as you have said when saying you went to sites for those over 18 when you were under that age, and as i myself went to starting when i was twelve).

Look at the numerous posts referring to HNG's whose only goal on these sites is to have a conversation that arouses them sexually. As an adult over the age of 18, it worries me to think i may be talking to someone under the age of 18.

When i entered chatrooms and websites at the age of 12, 15, even 17, while i was 'breaking the law' it was the website and all adults on it that would be held legally responsible if my true age were found.

You have to ask yourself, are you willing to face the legal and social consequences for talking to a person underage about subject matter many people find sexual in nature?

True, we can never, at this point in time, garuntee all members are over 18, but I think DD is make a valiant effort with the ability to report people and with his bringing back the verification process for the chatroom.

As for you dont become ab/dl until you are 18, when i read this i assumed you were kidding. That is like saying you dont chose to be attracted to blonde haired blue eyed woman with size D cup until you are 18. How many teenage boys already have a specific 'type' of woman that they for the most part adhere to their entire lives?

Or those who are into other fetish's? At 13 i knew i was interested in aspects of the BDSM community. You cannot control at one age you discover certain attractions. Having a fetish, whether sexual or not, does not have an age limit, but usual will begin to devolop around the age of puberty.

While it would be nice to think of a site open to those under the legal age to discuss and explore their ab/dl interests, i do not believe this site would, or should ever be, that place for the safety of everyone.

Just my opinion

[DiaperBoyKR]

I have zero problem with any site that impinges on something of a sexual nature having an age restriction. Admittedly, thats because I'm on the good side of that restriction, and have been for many years now, but I still think its absolutely necessary.

The unfortunate part in this day and age is that there are unscrupulous people on either side of the line. I will readily admit that when I was a teenager I was looking at porn websites, learning about what my interests were sexually, and so forth. I didnt engage in any chats or even alot of forums, but I was active on the internet. I'm sure thats even more true of the kids who are more than six years younger than me (Im 24 now). As a result, you have HNG's who dont care who they have a sexual chat with....they just want to get off. In addition, you do have literal pedophiles who are looking to get in touch with kids. Similarly, you have folks who are trying to protect kids who pose as kids or pretend they are just overage and try to trick people into meeting or engaging in illegal sexually oriented chats. We've all seen the Chris Matthews specials on Nightline, at least if you're in the US.

My point on this is obvious to me. We must care about the needs of the community as a whole, not just the needs of those who happen to yet be underage. Yeah, for 4 or 5 years it really sucks as you're exploring your sexuality without any support. But all it will take for the government to make a move to shut down this website or other like it would be one demonstrable case of a child being endangered or a pedophile trying to take advantage of a "kid" on the website. Given the misunderstanding of the lifestyle out there, dont you think this site isnt already under scrutiny by some of the groups out there? I guarantee we are. To protect the community as a whole, the 18+ age limit has to exist, and DD has to be seen to be actively enforcing it.

Its a pain in the ass to the TB's, but its also life.

[DailyDi]

I have often considered allowing teens into the message board at least, but two things prevent me from doing it:

1) I don't feel any of the message board suites currently offer sufficient protection for children online. If I were to create a teen board I would want to be 100% sure that they could not give out personal contact info to adults; and that they would be safe from the pervs that flock to where they are. Myspace, Yahoo and others have million of dollars to create their communities and they still end up in the news for not protecting kids.

2) If we allowed kids in here I would have to censor the conversations of the adults, and we'd have to restrict talk of the sexual aspects of diaper wearing. I like having this as a private adult community where we are - for the most part - unrestricted in our conversations.

[Pipsqueak]

Age restrictions really are a protection (as much as possible) for BOTH sides - adult and kids. As adults it helps protect us from getting in legal problems, but it's the kids who really need protection. It horrifies me when I come across (all too often) things written on the internet, by kids. They give out way too much personal information and leave themselves open to predators. They just aren't mature enough yet to realize the position they're putting themselves in. While the majority of the people on this board would never harm a child, there's always the chance that there are some people who would. AB kids are looking for someone who understands them and that makes them terribly vulnerable.

From another standpoint, as an adult (even an AB adult) I like having conversations with other adults. Teenagers conversations are rarely of interest to me. As a teenager they were interesting, as an adult ... not so much.

[diaprbayb]

everyone knows that at the age of 18 you don't suddenly develope a craving for drugs and alcohol. We should try to support teens and come up with a place where can share the fun

When I was 12, I was at a after the wedding party for family friends. I was there because I wasthe Alterboy. Were not really any other kids my age. I was standing off to the side by myself with my hand in my pocket. This older man came up next to me then slowly reached down and grabbed my fingers through my pants. He started to squeeze them. When I movedthem he realized that they were my fingers and not what he wanted. He tried to move my hand and go for what he wanted. Luckily I knew what he was doing was wrong. But all I could think of was "Hey he's an Adult, he should know better". I never want to find out in the middle of something that the person I am talking to is a child.

[justagirl4fun]

As for you dont become ab/dl until you are 18, when i read this i assumed you were kidding. That is like saying you dont chose to be attracted to blonde haired blue eyed woman with size D cup until you are 18. How many teenage boys already have a specific 'type' of woman that they for the most part adhere to their entire lives?

You can be interested in diapers before age 18...but you can't be ab/dl til you're 18. Because before then you're not an ADULT, thus invalidating the ADULT part of ADULT baby/diaper lover. Teen baby/diaper lover, sure, but not ADULT baby.

[Baby Bethany]

It's obvious that many of us liked this way before our teens, and I for one remember how alone I felt with it as a teenager. I would have loved the opportunity to talk to other people about it. But all that aside, I am aware now that had I had that opportunity I would have been playing with fire.

I'm not a parent, but I ask myself this, if I had an 11 year old boy or girl, would I want them to do what I am doing now, i.e reading this forum? I have to say the answer is no. Let's face it, most of the stuff on here is pretty tame, but there are some posts I wouldn't want a child to read or debate with adults on here. There is also the point that they may be a target for HNG's etc.

I think it should stay at 18.

Beth

[spoonchicken]

Underwhere had some very good moral points to make, and I am forced to agree. However, I agree far more strongly with DD himself. The dangers to everyone are simply too great to hazard. It's just not worth the legal/moral risks involved in accomodating minors here. I'm sorry, but that's just the way things have to be. I myself began wearing at 14 or 15, so automatically I sympathize with what Underwhere says. But believe me when I say, it would turn my stomach (and my blood cold) to discover after the fact, that the person I just had a raunchy, dirty nasty PM with was a minor. Bearing in mind the fact that diaper-wearing simulates child-like behavior, we MUST maintain a solid concrete wall of moral correctness. For everyone's sake !

[underwhere]

Wow! I got quite a bit more response than I was expecting. Lots of people made some very good points, not all of which I agree with, but very well made. I'd like to respond to just a few here (okay, more than just a few ) and I hope I haven't managed to repeat myself too many times:

messyman wrote: "I don't think you could legally do it now. DPF had a teen baby section for years, but if it had not fallen into disrepair I suspect it would have been shut down. The moderated board was pretty well moderated but the chat was a free for all. There were forty year old men that admitted their age."

Obviously, the legal one is probably the primary reason it isn't done now, though frankly, I could envision a way to make that possible. Peruse google's archives of usenet postings, for example, and teen diaper wearers were frequent posters in discussions of the alt.sex.fetish.diapers newsgroup. In fact, some of the comments they made were cause for a variety of flame wars, some of which I believe were very misplaced at that. (I remember reading one specifically in which adults were trying to tell two teenage boys that there was no way possible they could no that they were homosexual by that point in time in their life, and that they should give themselves time to change their mind.)

However, usenet is different from a website. Nobody owns ultimate authority over what gets posted there. However, recently, some companies have agreed to proceed down what I believe is a very slippery slope, not allowing access to websites which promote child pornography. Don't get me wrong. I ABHOR people who are predators, particularly predators of children, but to suggest that some content is okay while other content is not begs the question about defining, precisely, what is acceptable for the viewer to choose to view. Let's be frank here: when REAL parents are changing REAL baby diapers, aren't they technically looking at live child porn in front of their eyes? Should they be criminally charged for that and have their names placed on sexual offender registry lists simply because they change real baby diapers and happen to look at their babies as a necessary aspect of performing that job? That sounds ridiculous to me. Where does one draw that line?

singner wrote, "Alas, this is where the whole "responsible parenting" bid comes into play and though it would not be at all wise for DD to so much as attempt to offer said services to underaged persons, due to picture content, we need not forget that any male, at least, who is interested and searching is bound to find www dot [That site] dot com. No objectionable photos, just textual content which parents are in charge of monitoring."

I don't think it would be difficult to structure certain portions of a website around age-restricted parameters, but you still have the ultimate problem of proving a person's age. Somebody determined to look at content which is otherwise prohibited to them is going to find a way around whatever restrictions you can throw up in front of them. Despite popular assertions to the contrary, having a credit card number available to you does not guarantee that you are at least 18 years of age. In fact, it's quite easy to get a credit card with your name on it at any age if you are willing to pay the minimal service charges involved in doing so. I won't explain how just in case somebody is reading this now who *gasp* shouldn't be reading this.

You would still have the fundamental problem of moderation, though. I've been in charge of moderated e-mail lists before, and still am. None of them are focussed around adult content though occasionally adult content DOES get touched upon in the course of such discussions, but they all work the same way: New posters to the list are automatically moderated. This prevents spam and off topic posters. Pretty simple strategy. I also have three other sets of eyes to help me with that particular task for that particular list.

I'm sure you could have a moderated forum where ALL posters messages are moderated. It might take a few additional people to keep on top of it, but it definitely could be done.

Picture content: You could limit that as a restricted portion of the web site available only to adults. You still have the problem of proving who is and who is not an adult.

squashNstretch wrote: "I like it the way it is. I think its nessesary in the AB community to have an area for those that are 18 and older (I think 18 is a good age). This is an interest that many (most?) have a sexual link to as well."

Do you expect that teenagers are not masturbating, or otherwise exploring their sexual urges/desires/needs? Why is this so different from the simple process of growing up and discovering one's sexual self?

squashNstretch wrote: "There are plenty of other places for those younger than 18 to go to discuss their AB feelings without having to sneak in here."

Some are probably reading this thread. Are you willing to help them find such places by telling them where to go, or just direct them and the HNGs both to google for a good search on the subject?

squashNstretch wrote, "Having an adults only site also helps show the rest of the world that being an adult baby has nothing to do with kids.

The first time some 12 gets into a sexual chat with an adult thats an AB, it certainly would brand us all. I would hate to see this site do the way of DFP, or worse, [That OTHER site]... Just a thought."

Frankly, I think this is one of the strongest points in favor of keeping things the way they are. I can't say I like it, because I know as a teenager if I were interested in being more open about this at the time, I would have greatly resented this, but this is clearly one of the most logical points to be made here. One could probably "fix" this problem by having two separate chat programs running, one of which would be moderated. (I've seen such things where every message must be approved by a moderator.) That would limit the possibility of child predators taking an active interest in children on a website like this since the moderators could refuse to post any questionable content in the specific chat room. An obvious drawback would be that the chatroom would still need constant monitoring, and that might not be reasonable or feasible to achieve.

I wrote, "I'm not going to go into the details of what originated this post." and PampersPete asked me directly in response, "Then why bring it up?" Because that is what originated this thought process to me. I'm not willing or desiring to reveal names, places, things that were said either to me directly or via third parties. They aren't relevant to my post. What was relevant is that I know of a specific situation, and frankly, I think it sucks that we have to look at age as a sole means to measuring maturity. Frankly, there are plenty of 40 year olds I wouldn't trust on a site like this, and plenty of teens I probably would.

When I was a teenager, I was a social outcast. Among the reasons for this were because I was a highly intellectual child. I was not really interested or able to be too sociable, but a forum like this, if I had been willing to pursue it at the time, would have been a social dream come true to me. I was also frequently told that my words and actions reflected a person significantly wiser than my age or stature would have suggested. There are others out there who are quite similar, not able to fit in socially with their peers, seeking a social outlet for themselves that makes sense. The internet was only barely available to me back then, but it is much more available to people now. Similar isolated teens will seek out such websites with interests similar to theirs because they can, and like adults, some will be mature enough to handle it while others will not. Why should teens be unable to take part when overly aggressive annoying immature ADULTS can take part?

sarah_ab made lots of good points:

sarah_ab wrote, "Yes, it is true there are many teens out there who have discovered they have an interest in aspects of the ab/dl lifestyle. However, for many on this site and off, this is a sexual fetish. For many of those teens i'm sure it aroses sexual feelings for them as well. The reason this site is at 18 and older i believe, is not just to placate lawmakers, but to protect young children and teenages (who time and again prove they are not the wisest of choice makes, as you have said when saying you went to sites for those over 18 when you were under that age, and as i myself went to starting when i was twelve)."

Not all of them need that protection. There are, I'm sure, some parents out there who know that their child/children have such interests, and there are also, I'm sure, some parents who allow their children to indulge. This also says nothing about those children who, for reasons obviously not their doing, are incontinent, and also could probably be helped by knowing that their are a significant number of people similarly affected.

On the other side of the coin, there are parents who would probably beat their children silly if they found out that their children were interested in this stuff, let alone looking over material related to it. How is a child to grow emotionally if not given the opportunity to explore things of importance to them? Such children, if they were to choose to try to take part on this website, are already facing the prospect of serious consequences at home for satiating their own curiosity. Why should we be in the business of punishing them further by shunning them from our community when we might very well be the only people out there that they have access to who is both potentially willing and able to listen to them nonjudgmentally?

sarah_ab wrote, "Look at the numerous posts referring to HNG's whose only goal on these sites is to have a conversation that arouses them sexually. As an adult over the age of 18, it worries me to think i may be talking to someone under the age of 18."

That is a fair statement as well. Could we not label accounts of those under 18 as such similar to the way we label accounts of people verified to be over 18 who submit credit card validation to this website to be over 18? The obvious problem, I suppose, would be to verify that a person really was under 18. There are predators everywhere. The only way to solve that one, I think, would be to ban the internet from anybody prior to their 18th birthday. It would work, but it would also be highly destructive to some teens, not to mention potentially destructive to the future of the internet.

Also, I do not object to talking to people of any age. Frankly, I've always had a much easier time talking to my elders or to children (typically, pre-teens). As I'm getting older, I am finding myself more able to talk to my peers now that my interests and their are a lot closer to being similar, but as a teen, I was annoyed with the fact that I could never have an intelligent conversation with any of my peers about any meaningful topic matter.

sarah_ab wrote, "When i entered chatrooms and websites at the age of 12, 15, even 17, while i was 'breaking the law' it was the website and all adults on it that would be held legally responsible if my true age were found."

That is still true. In all probability, that is also still the case. Should we simply ban all such "adult content" websites because of that possibility? Some people think we should. I don't think that is the right solution though.

sarah_ab wrote, "You have to ask yourself, are you willing to face the legal and social consequences for talking to a person underage about subject matter many people find sexual in nature?"

Check out my one blog entry I have here. Follow the link to my personal website. Read about some of the issues I have faced. This is not to suggest that I am "worse off" than others here, but simply to suggest that it is a regular part of my service to the world to talk about my issues with anybody who approaches me about them, especially if they happen to be facing the same or similar issues I have faced. I've spent a great deal of time talking with teenagers online about issues related to my/their disability. Sometimes, issues of sexuality do crop up into those conversations. Issues pertaining to sexuality, it turns out, have an enormous effect on some teens as it applies to people who happen to have the same cognitive condition I have. For me to shy away from such conversations with them would be doing them a great disservice. This is stuff they have a right to be curious about, and more than that, there are darn few people qualified or knowledgeable enough to answer their questions. I am both willing and able, but if I said "no", who could they turn to with their curiosities? Your average psychologist or psychiatrist certainly isn't going to have the experience or knowledge to truthfully and completely answer their questions.

I look at a community like this in a similar vain for those exploring their sexuality and desires for AB/DL. Although a lot more is understood about sexuality in general than is understood about people with my specific condition, why should we shy away from sharing that collection of information? My blog here is hidden to anybody not a registered user, but others here probably have a more open blog. I'm not really ready to link my interests in this stuff back to me as a person for the wider audience of the world wide web to find, but anybody registered here can read it all and link it all together.

I guess what I'm trying to say, and poorly at that, is if they are out there asking questions, and nobody out there is providing answers or permitting answers to be provided, and they are frustrated in that process because THEY think they are weird, aren't we doing more harm than good by effectively confirming to them that they are weird by not allowing them to explore such things a bit more openly?

sarah_ab wrote, "True, we can never, at this point in time, garuntee all members are over 18, but I think DD is make a valiant effort with the ability to report people and with his bringing back the verification process for the chatroom.

As for you dont become ab/dl until you are 18, when i read this i assumed you were kidding. That is like saying you dont chose to be attracted to blonde haired blue eyed woman with size D cup until you are 18. How many teenage boys already have a specific 'type' of woman that they for the most part adhere to their entire lives?"

No, I was being perfectly serious. I suppose I could have used more clear terminology. AB, of course, implies "adult" and I was not discussing adults here. Perhaps I should have said "TB" for "teen".

What I can tell you, again with my background in providing a lot of e-mail counseling to parents of children with my particular disability as well as some of those children, is that many DO develop such interests very early on in their own growth process. Not only that, but a failure to do so (and some do fail because not all of us are so fortunate) can be cause for ever greater personal isolation. As a teen, I knew what social isolation meant. No teen deserves to feel the same way I felt as a teen. I guess that is really what is driving this particular idea and conversation for me. How can I, how can we make the lives of those people more tolerable to them?

sarah_ab wrote, "Or those who are into other fetish's? At 13 i knew i was interested in aspects of the BDSM community. You cannot control at one age you discover certain attractions. Having a fetish, whether sexual or not, does not have an age limit, but usual will begin to devolop around the age of puberty."

Correct, but for some, it may develop even sooner than that.

sarah_ab wrote, "While it would be nice to think of a site open to those under the legal age to discuss and explore their ab/dl interests, i do not believe this site would, or should ever be, that place for the safety of everyone.

Just my opinion"

Fair enough, but where should they go, then? This is an exceptionally open community, one which, quite frankly, seems to be very caring and full of wonderful people. What better place than this community, or one like it, to welcome such people into the knowledge that they are not freaks or crazy?

DiaperBoyKR wrote, "My point on this is obvious to me. We must care about the needs of the community as a whole, not just the needs of those who happen to yet be underage. Yeah, for 4 or 5 years it really sucks as you're exploring your sexuality without any support. But all it will take for the government to make a move to shut down this website or other like it would be one demonstrable case of a child being endangered or a pedophile trying to take advantage of a "kid" on the website. Given the misunderstanding of the lifestyle out there, dont you think this site isnt already under scrutiny by some of the groups out there? I guarantee we are. To protect the community as a whole, the 18+ age limit has to exist, and DD has to be seen to be actively enforcing it.

Its a pain in the ass to the TB's, but its also life."

For some TB's, frankly speaking, I wouldn't be surprised if it were a matter of life and death, literally. We all know from our own experiences that being a teenager can be very taxing both emotionally and physically, and where did we turn to when we had questions we were afraid to ask the people in our lives? Imagine this thought process: "I really want to try to wear diapers again. I'm afraid to tell anybody because they will all think I'm weird and demented. Anytime I do this stuff on my own, I have to hide it from everybody. If somebody finds out, if they don't kill me first, I'll probably kill myself." Is that rational or desirable thinking going on? Shouldn't we try to do what we can to prevent that?

In my case with regard to my disability, I honestly didn't have knowledgeable people to ask. I was the one providing most of the teaching, and it was on-the-fly training for the people who became my psychologists. I received a lot of emotional guidance about the social issues that affected my life, but I was not ready or willing to explore the sexual issues affecting my life until VERY recently, within the last two years or so. Did those issues affect me? Yes, I'm sure they did, but there was no real reason for them to be a necessary aspect of my personal explorations. Now, the time is ready for that exploring for me. I'm just about 15 to 17 years later in that exploration from most other people.

I've talked to plenty of people who have had very abusive situations as children and teens try to find ways to struggle through their situations years after the fact. Personally, I'd rather do whatever I possibly can to prevent such unnecessary suffering from occurring in the first place. The idea of telling somebody to suffer for "just a few more years until you are old enough" sounds noble for the goals of the community, perhaps, but who wants to be in that teen's head suffering along with them during that time even if we could? That sounds like cruel and unusual punishment, and for what? Their own curiosities about their own sexuality?

DailyDi wrote, "I have often considered allowing teens into the message board at least, but two things prevent me from doing it:

1) I don't feel any of the message board suites currently offer sufficient protection for children online. If I were to create a teen board I would want to be 100% sure that they could not give out personal contact info to adults; and that they would be safe from the pervs that flock to where they are. Myspace, Yahoo and others have million of dollars to create their communities and they still end up in the news for not protecting kids."

Thats all fine and dandy, DailyDi, but they (both the pervs and the kids) are already able to read the forums now. There is no "perv test" you can perform to weed those out ahead of time, and no foolproof means to test the age of a participant and get a truthful answer. Since everybody is so concerned about protecting kids, why not just be drastic and call the entire internet and world wide web a failure? There is no way to protect kids from what is out there and certainly no way to prevent the pervs from finding and trying to manipulate what they seek.

DailyDi wrote: "2) If we allowed kids in here I would have to censor the conversations of the adults, and we'd have to restrict talk of the sexual aspects of diaper wearing. I like having this as a private adult community where we are - for the most part - unrestricted in our conversations."

Why not have a dual site functionality, one with a volunteer collection of adult moderators overseeing kids interacting with each other and potentially other adults, and one in which adults interact among themselves? Wouldn't that kill too birds with one stone?

Pipsqueak wrote, "Age restrictions really are a protection (as much as possible) for BOTH sides - adult and kids. As adults it helps protect us from getting in legal problems, but it's the kids who really need protection. It horrifies me when I come across (all too often) things written on the internet, by kids. They give out way too much personal information and leave themselves open to predators."

Adults do this too. Adults are not immune from similar lack of forethought.

Pipsqueak wrote, "They just aren't mature enough yet to realize the position they're putting themselves in. While the majority of the people on this board would never harm a child, there's always the chance that there are some people who would. AB kids are looking for someone who understands them and that makes them terribly vulnerable."

At the age of 19, I composed my personal website. It is still in existance today although it has moved twice. At the time I put it together, I decided there were certain things I was just not going to have there, like a picture of myself. I didn't need to be told not to put those things there even though putting them there would likely have put me at greater potential for personal danger. Since then, I've been featured in the Boston Globe, CNN, and elsewhere, but I'm always careful to make clear what specific information I want excluded from such volunteer advocacy work. As a child, I didn't always understand my mother wanting to protect me, but as an adult, I can say she generally made the right decisions for me at that point in time in my life. I needed that protection probably more than most, though, because my specific vulnerabilities already put me at the potential for a great deal of social danger. I no longer need that protection now, and yet my mother is still trying to protect me.

Some kids are mature enough to understand all of this. Many adults are not. Again, why limit this to a community of adults, many of whom will not understand these basic concepts when their are teens who likely can and do?

Pipsqueak wrote, "From another standpoint, as an adult (even an AB adult) I like having conversations with other adults. Teenagers conversations are rarely of interest to me. As a teenager they were interesting, as an adult ... not so much."

I was never interested in teenager conversations as a teenager. It was the one reason I was eager to escape my teenage years as quickly as possible. I know that a small number of teens feel/felt similarly to me.

diaprbayb wrote, "I never want to find out in the middle of something that the person I am talking to is a child."

Which is precisely why we should encourage children to be open an honest, and not devious and lying. A child interested in these topics can not get their needs met without making themselves out to be a liar. How do you think children feel about that? Most children I know get really mad when they find out that others have been lying or cheating. Why would they want to mimic that? I don't think they do, but I think they might feel they have no other alternative in order to allow them to meaningfully explore their sexuality for themselves.

Baby Bethany wrote, "'m not a parent, but I ask myself this, if I had an 11 year old boy or girl, would I want them to do what I am doing now, i.e reading this forum? I have to say the answer is no. Let's face it, most of the stuff on here is pretty tame, but there are some posts I wouldn't want a child to read or debate with adults on here. There is also the point that they may be a target for HNG's etc."

I'm also not a parent, but if I were a parent, I'd want a relationship strong enough with my child to know that they could come to me for anything on their mind. While I wouldn't introduce these topics to my child, if my child developed such an interest, I would encourage a safe exploration. Ultimately, though, I know, as any parent ultimately realizes, that parents can not control their children. Parents can merely guide their children. I would hope I would be able to be a good guide and provide a level of appropriate feedback to make such explorations as safe as possible.

I guess in closing, it irks me that the only way teens are able to get their fix of this community, and others like it, is to lie about their age and hope nobody is savvy enough to figure it out when/if they ultimately make a mistake in disclosure. It seems to me we are encouraging people to lie and be dishonest. Wouldn't it be better for them, and ultimately for us, if we could all just speak plainly and truthfully to one another rather than encouraging deviousness and dishonesty? I understand not wanting to get involved in potentially raunchy sexual discussions with teens, and I understand trying to protect teens from clearly dangerous and undesirable sexual advances, and I also understand not wanting to unintentionally put forth such advances to teens, and I appreciate all of that, but those could easily be avoided if teens felt more free to be themselves rather than needing to feel a reason to lie about their age to gain access to a web site which some people believe, rightly or wrongly, that they shouldn't have access to.

[sarah_ab]

underwhere... you seem unusually interested in opening this website up to those who in the usa are deemed a minor. If they have a medical condition there are medical bulletin boards that are very well moderated for children and parents of children to post on.

I find it odd you spend so much time defending your position that underage persons should be allowed in a website which is clearly full of adult content. If you feel that strongly about it, perhaps you should start your own website, since you seem to have all the particulars of how to moderate it worked out.

I am sorry if this comes across as harsh, but it is just an opinoin.

[diaperwearntigger]

As an educator, as well as an AB, I feel that we not only should support our young adults, but protect them as much as we can. The internet is full of predators looking for young prey all the time, unfortunatly, in today's society, parents lack knowledge of what their child is doing online, and I'm sure some are even naive thinking that their child would never do something bad online. Let's face it, no matter how much you educate your child they are still curious. No matter how much you educate there is still peer pressure. No matter how much you tell a child don't talk to strangers, most of them still do. It's a funny world that we live in. It's rude not to say hi to someone when they say hi to you, yet we teach them not to talk to strangers. Talk about mixed signals. Even though I feel bad for those young adults who are ABDL curious and have no place to go, I still believe whole heartedly that they should not be allowed on certain websites, including DD. I'm not only thinking about their protection, but for mine as well. I have seen Dateline's "to catch a predator," and I'm not saying that they are online or that I am parnoid, but in today's society with it comes to underage children, one should be more careful. I can just see my career as an educator going down in a spiral because I talked to an underage child about such things that should be left to adults only.

You have to go back to when you first discovered lliking to wear diapers and for most of you it was post internet and chatrooms, and forums. Did you not survive? I'm sure it was a struggle, but you survived without the internet, just like these underage children will survive until they are legal age to be in the chatrooms and on the forums.

In today's society, Children grow up way too fast. In my field of work I have seen just about anything. It's sad that one of my first graders can't even use crayons to color his mom a picture who is in jail, because of drugs being found in melted crayons. Instead he has to use colored pencils.... What kind of life is that for a 6 yr old... my point is this.... kids should still be innocent... childlike... just like the way some of us like to be... yet we tend to push them too much to grow up too fast.... let children be children...and when they are 18, then they can decide whether they want to join a chatroom or not....let them enjoy their childhood and let us not be part of that corruption that a child should not experience until they are well old enough to understand and be able to handle it themselves.

[underwhere]

underwhere... you seem unusually interested in opening this website up to those who in the usa are deemed a minor. If they have a medical condition there are medical bulletin boards that are very well moderated for children and parents of children to post on.

Right, but such adults are welcome here too. This is a fairly open community in what it tolerates from adults. There are lots of adults with lots of different interests here. Should we relegate those adults with specifically medical issues to other websites? Why are those adults welcome here in what is frequently a sexually-driven environment?

I find it odd you spend so much time defending your position that underage persons should be allowed in a website which is clearly full of adult content. If you feel that strongly about it, perhaps you should start your own website, since you seem to have all the particulars of how to moderate it worked out.

I am sorry if this comes across as harsh, but it is just an opinoin.

sarah_ab, nobody, whether a child or adult, deserves to feel lonely.

I am not so much interested in opening up a website full of adult content to minors as I am in pointing out that:

1. It already is relatively open to minors, and there really isn't much anybody could reasonably do to prevent that. ALL adult websites have the same collection of potential problems here and it really isn't too difficult for somebody to get around such "protections" if they are so inclined.

2. I do think there are reasonable solutions to the proposed challenges, and I think that teens deserve a better answer than "wait a few years". Try saying that to a teen so in need of social contact that the teen might act on suicidal thoughts. (Some of them eventually make the news headlines in horrific ways, taking out a large number of other people with them.) Why shouldn't we do what we can to try to prevent that from happening?

I'm trying to ask these questions and propose potential solutions in a pragmatic way hoping that maybe somebody would be able to take my thoughts and ideas a step further. DailyDi has already stated, as have others, why they believe this community could not and should not serve underage participants. I don't disagree with any of those statements, except for the one which seems to be an attitude of "just wait a few years and then you can do whatever you want". Kids need and deserve a better answer than that. I don't personally have either the financial means or the time considerations to provide such an environment alone, but I would be more than willing to help create such a community if there were other volunteers willing to help out in the process.

While you are coming across as harsh, I do understand that it is your opinion and I respect it highly. Please try to respect mine.

[BriGuy]

As much as my heart goes out to Teens who feel they have no where to go, it raises an opportunity for many, many issues. Especially with the problems that have occurred recently with Myspace and predators. Bad press would be a very BAD thing. People who own web sites can be held liable for anything that happens as well as lumping the whole community into the mess. Unfortunately the internet harbors quite a few freaks, and they will use any little opportunity to coerce children into their twisted lives. Sometimes good things come to those who wait and waiting till the legal age will bring good things. I am positive there are teens surfing this web site looking at posts and pictures, there is really no way of stopping that. The point of not getting them involved in posting will keep them from predators. The BDSM community is all about consent, and in most areas that I know of, you cannot legally consent until you are of legal consenting age, where ever that may be.

~Brian

[DiaperBoyKR]

Underwhere, I understand where you are coming from and what you are saying regarding the need for support even for the underage kids who are trying to find some support regarding their feelings for diapers or whatever. However, this is very much a case of "the needs of the many outweighs the needs of the few". I really dont mean to be cold, but look at the content on this site.....It is unarguably adult in nature. Yes, there are probably minors who look at the website, who make use of the website, who read the forums, BUT there lies a responsibility to make sure that as much is done to protect both the regular users of the forum, the moderators, and the ABDL community as a whole.

As Ive said before, given the general misunderstanding of our community in the "normal" world, we have to be absolutely careful to avoid being branded as pedophiles. All it would take would be ONE demonstrated case. You argue that in some cases its life and death about them needing support, and perhaps it is. But I definitely would like to avoid going back to the days where there weren't forums like this available, and if that means that teenagers have to wait for a few years, so be it.

[PampersPete]

[sarah_ab]

HAHAHA that picture is great...

and appropriate, i just got back from seeing "the happening"

[Hunter1076]

As for you dont become ab/dl until you are 18, when i read this i assumed you were kidding. That is like saying you dont chose to be attracted to blonde haired blue eyed woman with size D cup until you are 18. How many teenage boys already have a specific 'type' of woman that they for the most part adhere to their entire lives?

Or those who are into other fetish's? At 13 i knew i was interested in aspects of the BDSM community. You cannot control at one age you discover certain attractions. Having a fetish, whether sexual or not, does not have an age limit, but usual will begin to devolop around the age of puberty.

While it would be nice to think of a site open to those under the legal age to discuss and explore their ab/dl interests, i do not believe this site would, or should ever be, that place for the safety of everyone.

Just my opinion

I was refering to the fact that this and sites like it shouldn't cater to younger than 18 ever.

Yes people under 18 are interested in topics like this. BUT I for one would prefer 18/21 boundarys applyed so I can more openly express my ideas without worry.

And the fact DD does a great job of weeding out potential trouble chars so we can speek openly in our discussions

[DailyDi]

HAHAHA that picture is great...

and appropriate, i just got back from seeing "the happening"

Saw that last night too, loved it!

[PeeLover624]

people who are AB/DL are not that way until age 18....

Thank god for that....

And thats the way it should be..

If it were my site it would be 21 when people decide they are AB/DL, and never before then, Be happy DD lets it happen sooner.

Period

I was.