Poll-atics

[FretaBWet]

Nope you didn't. I'm sure you believe you did. I doubt I could convince you that you didn't but I'll give it a try anyway. Try reading the #1 definition of subjective. See where it says in parentheses "as opposed to objective". That means subjective is the opposite of objective therefor objective is the opposite of subjective. what that means is an opinion can't be both at the same time. Look at definition #3 for subjective. See where it says subjective is unduly egocentric. Now look at your #3 in the reply above. See where it says that both you and Vic were putting emphasis on your personal thoughts, opinions and attitudes. See where you say you were both thinking in an egocentric manner. See where you call each response objective toward each other. Just because you call them OBJECTIVE doesn't make them objective. Your reply was nonsensical gibberish and you crow like a proud rooster at the end. You're trying to sound intelligent and logical but it's not working. Maybe you should just try one time to open your mind to the possibility that someone that disagrees with you might be right. If you had spent the time to read up on the meaning and differences between objective and subjective you would have been better off. Instead you just spent the time trying to make me wrong and you right. You remind me of the Emperor. He was just as proud as you too and he didn't have any clothes on either. Also I find it amusing that you would include Vic in your post after repeatedly attacking him in your replies to him. My subjective opinion of him is that he's light years smarter than you and has the age to have obtained wisdom over those years. You might spend some time listening to him instead of just arguing.

Hugs,

Freta

[Vic]

Here we go again, it just doesn't get any better than this now does it? Yes I have read your "proof" and watched your "proof", but unlike you I take ANYTHING I read or watch from the news companies with A VERY BIG grain of salt.

That's why I don't care what you think you have proven, I still form my own opinion by sifting through what I read and hear. By the way, there is a very good book I read long time back called "It's A Free Country:Personal Freedom In America After September 11" by Cornel West, you should read it. Unlike the links you provide it offers many people "in the know" ie, justice department people, congress men, news people, ect. that paint a not so very rosy view of the Patriot act.

For your information, by the by, I'm NOT a democtat, I'm independent. I vote however I feel about the persons ability to lead. For my govenor I'm voting republican, as I believe he is the best qualified. Yes I do know the origin of santa. Back to your accusing my of swearing AT you, well if you took the time to read my posts I NEVER swore AT you.

I did however use a couple of expletives that they use on TV to describe some of the players in charge. I just keep getting this hatred and bitterness from you that makes me wonder what could have happened to such a young guy as yourself to be so fanatical, I'm still waiting to hear about that.

The way you keep attacking my posts (and everyone elses) is entertaining to me. I don't bother to post links to what I would claim as my "proof" because it is all subjective, you really have to look at what this guy says, then check out this other site, then check out CNN, NBC, and CBS and from them mull things over as to what you think you can believe.

I don't bother with FOX, because it is so far right, nor do I check out MSNBC, because it leans left (on that point you and I agree). You go ahead though and keep raving, it gives me a reason to get on the site, as I can't wait to hear your latest hate mail to (almost everybody) on this thread. It's kind of funny really.

I'm glad you have a job, do you still live with your folks? How much are you affected by the economy being in a recession? We are lower middle class, we bought this home because it was what we could afford. In the past 5 years we have put a new roof on it, new water heater, new bathroom, new furnace and air-conditioner, and new windows in the entire house.

It has not been easy to do this, but we're doing the best we can at keeping up all the payments on everything, but it is getting harder every day. With inflation and the cost of gas we're at the point where one missed check could break us, and we're not alone. My mother, my SO's mother & lots op people that we know are at the breaking point too. How much of a stake do you have in the way things are going?

I noticed you didn't care to answer my thoughts about how you might look into going into the military, I'm surprised about that. You see, when I'd been there for awhile I saw many new kids coming in and a lot were like you, very opinionated and thinking that if they shouted the loudest that they would be proven right by sheer arrogance. They learned the way things really worked before too long though.

I do feel that it would benifit you, help you to grow up a little, seriously you should consider it. You claim to love this nation, put your money where your mouth is. Prove something to yourself, some thing more than what he or she had to say, but checking out where the rubber really meets the road, and test your mettle.

It could be the best thing you've ever done in your life. If you want to be safe then pick the navy, or the airforce. They both are relatively safe, teach you skills you can use in civilian life, and they treat you like a human being. I was in the army myself, and I still feel pride in having served.

It might be good for you, seriously, think about it. I'm not trying to put you down here, just offering advice. I encouraged my nephew into the military (but I told him NOT to go army or marines) as they are harder and not as safe, but NO, he went army, airborne like me. Too much of the John Wayne factor in the genes.

Try being a little less rabid here, maybe people will listen to your opinions then, instead of dismissing you as a fanatic. Just a thought.

Peace,

Vic

[DL88]

Alright I'm going to make this very quick because all eighter of you do is want to argue. No matter what a voice of reason says, you both will ALWAYS have to have the last word because of your insecurities. No matter how much fact, how much proof, how much reason is thrown at you people you still just keep running around like retarded kids in a shiney shop. An even better example would be the 2 of you in a cave lost in the dark and I threw you a flashlight but you sat there and let the batteries run out because you want to walk around in the dark.

Freta, of course I did, and of course this whole thing is from 2 objective point of views, you and your posts like many others, are pitiful.

Vic, that last post was very light but before I let you off of the hook so quickly there are a few things I need to point out. Yes, in the second sentence of your first post directed at me you made a racial slur accusing me of not voting for Obama because he is black. On top of that you also thought it would be funny to make fun of religion, call me a name, and superimpose that I was an idiot.

oooooohhh! I love this, two (count them two) fundamentalist right wing, God fearin white folk telling me about the danger represented by the choice of a black presidential candidate (can you spell candidate?).

Now you are going to come back and say stuff like "I never superimposed anything and I didn't make from of religion and I love cookies." When you said that I had not even started yet except a post that said exactly this:

ooooooohhhhh looks like this is the political thread that is having all of the fun! Don't worry about these people anymore redneck, they scream about "change" because some politician goes on a Bush bashing spree and throws the words "hope, action, change, and believe" and some of these people are getting wetter than a drunk college chick at marde gras.

Vic and Freta if you wanna get into some real discussion about blogs, bias, name calling, and people doing what they are told, keep it up and then we will see who is really drinking the kool-aid and following a politician blindly.

But while you guys are calming down a bit from this little masquerade lets enjoy something nice.....like....a list of foiled terrorist attacks since 9/11

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,335500,00.html

P.S. Vic calling people names is my fav!

The only part that can possibly mistaken was the part about the college chicks. It had not been directed at you and you knew this because you never even mentioned it. So don't come in here later on saying I did lol.

I can not join the military Vic because of a medical issue named a heart murmur. While my heart is perfectly healthy, they won't let me in because of an irregular heartbeat. Yes it is true they will let people in with a Dr. notice allowing it, they would not accept it for me. I tried to go into the military already but was denied.

Now you still came here to post this even after I have been beating you up and down this entire thread with represented fact. On top of that, since I am tired of this thread I sent you a letter earlier telling you I would flat out apologize about the abusive comments I made if you would also in return and we would just drop off the entire thread. Unfortunitly for me I forgot to check the little box that would save it to my sent message area because I am used to that happening automatically. You not only blatently HAD to come here and continue the writing after the beatings but also after that exit I gave you.

Vic I have proven on numerous times you have no idea what you are talking about but that you do absolutely no research. I have proven that you pass opinion off as fact. Atleast Pete on another political thread posted the daily show as a source 3 times but shit atleast he has posted one. You never prove anything you say so how and why are we supposed to believe a word you say? Vic I am done with this thread.

Tell you what Vic, I know that you and Freta are so bitter for my proof and outright stomping I have given so I know that you both will HAVE to post after this post of mine at least 1 more time directed towards me. Like I said, this stems from a number of things including basic insecurity. People like the two of you will always attack first and last. People like the two of you will always HAVE to have the last word. Here is your chance to PROVE me wrong ok? I know you two are going to post once more at me even though this is my last post on this thread. Prove me wrong Vic and Freta, this is your last chance, I dare you two to prove me wrong.

So I'm done on this thread.

Veni Vidi Vici

DL88

On a side note: Freta, I have always liked your name because it reminds me of Freya from FF9 and because it rolls off of the tongue well. Also your avatar is very feminine and refreshing, I gotta admit I like it.

[FretaBWet]

DL88, Voice of reason, you know what I like about you? You just keep trying. Nobody can fault you on your persistence, at least I won't. It's not working but that's another matter altogether. Of course I'm going to reply to your last post, you're incorrect about me wanting to get the last word in, I expect you to reply back. As far as my insecurities I was pretty open with them in a prior post and you called me a liar and said it was bs remember. I'm truly amused by your insistence that your egotistical opinion is objective. Here is another indication that your trying to seem more educated than you really are.

"On top of that you also thought it would be funny to make fun of religion, call me a name, and superimpose that I was an idiot."

Dictionary .com definition of superimpose

su·per·im·pose /ˌsupərɪmˈpoʊz/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[soo-per-im-pohz] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–verb (used with object), -posed, -pos·ing.

1. to impose, place, or set over, above, or on something else.

2. to put or join as an addition (usually fol. by on or upon).

3. Movies, Television. to print (an image) over another image so that both are seen at once: The credits were superimposed over the opening scene.

Vic doesn't have to superimpose that you are an idiot, you're doing it for him.

Hugs,

Freta

[Skywolf]

Who are you and who invited you? This is funny because this is exactly how it started with Vic except with Vic I had simply posted for him to chill out, stop namecalling, and stick to the politics which of course he didn't. Now all of the sudden this clown wants to hop in trying to make fun of my age all of the sudden? I am no fanatic for a cause nor am I trying to overwhelmingly push a Republican agenda. I am discrediting everything Vic says or does with fact. Sky, I don't care at all what you think of me or anything so go away, why are you trying to start a fight with me? I am not going to flatter you by gettin into it with you. Democracy should always be practiced first, if the other party is unreasonable then you must defend yourself. I tried democracy with Vic but he ignored it; however, you are going straight for the fight.

Have a good one Sky,

DL88

P.S. You people make such a big deal about freedom of speech right, so why are you attacking my freedom to curse especially at people who used language at me first and just don't seem to get presented and proven fact.

No one invited me. This is an open topic. You don't own this topic, so it would be nice if you would stop acting as if it was so. I have seen much more name-calling and bashing coming from you than from anyone else on this board. I also wouldn't "make fun" of you age if you showed a little more maturity.

Most of your posts consist of bashing, and not a whole lot of "fact". You bash everyone who disagrees with your posts. Every time someone posts links to videos showing factual documented evidence, you brush it off with "I'm not wasting my time with that", yet you expect others to buy into your side with all your posts of "factual evidence". Its a two way street bud. You want people to consider your "facts" you have to consider theirs as well. The videos "How The Towers Fell" and "Zeitgeist" are both American made movies, which contain FACTUAL evidence that you can find yourself. They just compile it all together.

Wikipedia's article on the Patriot Act is kind of a joke, and I really can't believe you cited it as a decent explanation. Have you ever read through the actual Patriot Act, and gone through all the previous Acts that it amended?

This is a topic on a diaper lover/adult baby forum, not negotiations between two bickering countries, so I don't really see your statement as valid on here. (Democracy should always be practiced first, if the other party is unreasonable then you must defend yourself.) If you insist on using this reasoning, then everyone else on here has the same right, yet most don't get as blatantly outraged as you do. The keep it relatively civil, with a few snide remarks here and there.

Oh, and your freedom of speech thing? Here's a lesson for you. Your freedom of speech isn't worth a thing on here. It is a privately owned site, and therefor are not subject to the First Amendment. On top of that, this site is registered to Amsterdam, therefor the First Amendment doesn't even apply to this site

I'm not going for a fight with you, DL88. I am merely trying to open your eyes to your actions. I do love how you neglected to answer my questions to prove your credibility. I openly stated mine, so where is yours? I doubt you will answer though because you said you were done with this topic. Be safe and hope things go good for you in your future.

-Sky

P.S. Kudos Freta and Vic, I liked most of your last couple posts

[tenderheart]

So this is completely off topic. But I am genuinely surprised at how right leaning this board is when it comes to political discussion. But that may just be my perception.

[PampersPete]

So this is completely off topic. But I am genuinely surprised at how right leaning this board is when it comes to political discussion. But that may just be my perception.

It kind of blew me away too as well. The only thing I can think of is that it's right-leaning because their are alot of older folks on the boards. I play BINGO with my mommy at a seinor center and it's about a 85/15 mix of Repubs/Dems. I guess the older generations actually think the GOP really gives two shits about them.........

[FretaBWet]

I'm not exactly a spring chicken but I have a tendency to lean toward the liberal side in some issues while I lean toward the conservative in others. It just seems like the issues aren't aligned the way they used to be in the past. The Republican Party of the past used to be the party of small government, freedom from regulation and personal freedom. It was the Democrats that wanted to control everything from guns to business to protect us. Now it seems that we have the Republicans taking our civil rights away such as the Patriot act, spending us into bankruptcy and getting the government into our personal business with the anti abortion issue while the Democrats are want to balance the budget, end the war and protect us from the rape of our civil rights. I never expected to see this in my lifetime.

Hugs,

Freta

[Baby Bethany]

Why decide which you prefer? Some people can be both left wing and right wing at the same time.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/pressass/20080917...f7f3f111de.html

[Diaper Mike 05]

I'm not exactly a spring chicken but I have a tendency to lean toward the liberal side in some issues while I lean toward the conservative in others. It just seems like the issues aren't aligned the way they used to be in the past. The Republican Party of the past used to be the party of small government, freedom from regulation and personal freedom. It was the Democrats that wanted to control everything from guns to business to protect us. Now it seems that we have the Republicans taking our civil rights away such as the Patriot act, spending us into bankruptcy and getting the government into our personal business with the anti abortion issue while the Democrats are want to balance the budget, end the war and protect us from the rape of our civil rights. I never expected to see this in my lifetime.

Hugs,

Freta

I thought I was crazy, because that's kind of the way I see thinks politically. Thanks for letting me know I'm not, and someone else see it too.

[redneck diaper boy]

Look in 1976 I was and idealist and voted for Carter. Boy did i learn from my mistake!

It will take an Obamination to show this younger generation what Democrats are all about.

It kind of blew me away too as well. The only thing I can think of is that it's right-leaning because their are alot of older folks on the boards. I play BINGO with my mommy at a seinor center and it's about a 85/15 mix of Repubs/Dems. I guess the older generations actually think the GOP really gives two shits about them.........

[Vic]

Well as I've said I vote for the person I think will make the best leader. This year it can't be McCain, because he hasn't convinced me that he will change anything. We need to change the way we are heading or I fear that we'll wind up worse off economically than we've been since the great depression.

To be honest, I think what we face at every presidential election is that we get to pick between a joker, and a clown. The last time I voted for Mickey Mouse (which I've done when I didn't want to vote for either choice), Clinton won it.

Just goes to show that sometimes you do have to really try to make a good decision. McCain looks to be representative of Bush's policies, and I haven't heard him say ANYTHING that counters that opinion. I was even ready to vote (shudder), Kerry in the last election because I wanted ANYBODY other than Bush (can we all chant 4 MORE YEARS!). At the last minute I voted Rader, I knew he wouldn't make it , it was a hail Mary in the fourth quarter.

Now McCain has chosen Palin, what kind of political thinking is that? It's a gimmic, but this whole political season (that has dragged on for far too long), is really nothing more that soundbites of tit for tat mudslinging. Do we really believe that there is NO chance that she could wind up as our commander in chief? I shudder at that thought.

If McCain looked like a true change of policy in the white house I would vote for him. I just don't see it. He says he's a maverick, but I see him as a third Bush term, and that is just too frightening to think about. He's right about one thing, Washington is broken, the main problem is that it's FOR SALE and the SUPER, SUPER rich, who we never even HEAR about have bought it a long time ago, what they want is what gets crammed down our throats. Nobody is representing the American middle class, and we're becoming poorer by the day.

I fear that some day in the not too distant future all we'll have is the rich and the poor. We need to stop squeezing every dime out of our middle class, before that happens, or we might have the makings of another civil war on our hands. The way a society works is a pyramid, at the top you have the rich, then the middle class, and the biggest segment of society, the poor, on the bottom. That's just the way it's always been. You take out the middle and everything collapses, bad news for everyone really.

I don't know if Obama will do any good for the middle class, I'm hoping he does. But I'm not betting on Obama, I'm voting for him, but I bet McCain will win. You've got that right wing pumped up,

and it's hard to stop them when they think they're voting their views and religion into office, and McCain Palin seem to reflect that for them. Sad really, as religion should never have a place in politics. People believe the way they want too, they'll never see beyond their faith. If you challenge it they don't like that one bit.

I don't know if Obama will help us in the middle class, I trust my gut instincts, and those feelings tell me that McCain is not the bringer of change he purports to be. I've gone to both parties web sites and read their propaganda (that's all it is, they put out this message for you to be swayed in their direction you know), and I've had to weigh these things carefully. In the end I just don't see any change with McCain, but if I had to wager I'd say he'll win.

Peace,

Vic

[redneck diaper boy]

Look "change" is what you put in the parking meter. If Obama becomes president, you will be lucky to have any change.

Obama's "change" amounts to Communism.

Well as I've said I vote for the person I think will make the best leader. This year it can't be McCain, because he hasn't convinced me that he will change anything. We need to change the way we are heading or I fear that we'll wind up worse off economically than we've been since the great depression.

To be honest, I think what we face at every presidential election is that we get to pick between a joker, and a clown. The last time I voted for Mickey Mouse (which I've done when I didn't want to vote for either choice), Clinton won it.

Just goes to show that sometimes you do have to really try to make a good decision. McCain looks to be representative of Bush's policies, and I haven't heard him say ANYTHING that counters that opinion. I was even ready to vote (shudder), Kerry in the last election because I wanted ANYBODY other than Bush (can we all chant 4 MORE YEARS!). At the last minute I voted Rader, I knew he wouldn't make it , it was a hail Mary in the fourth quarter.

Now McCain has chosen Palin, what kind of political thinking is that? It's a gimmic, but this whole political season (that has dragged on for far too long), is really nothing more that soundbites of tit for tat mudslinging. Do we really believe that there is NO chance that she could wind up as our commander in chief? I shudder at that thought.

If McCain looked like a true change of policy in the white house I would vote for him. I just don't see it. He says he's a maverick, but I see him as a third Bush term, and that is just too frightening to think about. He's right about one thing, Washington is broken, the main problem is that it's FOR SALE and the SUPER, SUPER rich, who we never even HEAR about have bought it a long time ago, what they want is what gets crammed down our throats. Nobody is representing the American middle class, and we're becoming poorer by the day.

I fear that some day in the not too distant future all we'll have is the rich and the poor. We need to stop squeezing every dime out of our middle class, before that happens, or we might have the makings of another civil war on our hands. The way a society works is a pyramid, at the top you have the rich, then the middle class, and the biggest segment of society, the poor, on the bottom. That's just the way it's always been. You take out the middle and everything collapses, bad news for everyone really.

I don't know if Obama will do any good for the middle class, I'm hoping he does. But I'm not betting on Obama, I'm voting for him, but I bet McCain will win. You've got that right wing pumped up,

and it's hard to stop them when they think they're voting their views and religion into office, and McCain Palin seem to reflect that for them. Sad really, as religion should never have a place in politics. People believe the way they want too, they'll never see beyond their faith. If you challenge it they don't like that one bit.

I don't know if Obama will help us in the middle class, I trust my gut instincts, and those feelings tell me that McCain is not the bringer of change he purports to be. I've gone to both parties web sites and read their propaganda (that's all it is, they put out this message for you to be swayed in their direction you know), and I've had to weigh these things carefully. In the end I just don't see any change with McCain, but if I had to wager I'd say he'll win.

Peace,

Vic

[Skywolf]

I know I posted it in another thread, but I have to post it again

The simple answer is: don't vote for either, and definitely don't vote for some fictional character. Vote for someone like Bob Barr or Ralph Nader, someone who represents your views.

Bob Barr is the presidential candidate for the libertarian party, which is one of the only parties that fully supports the constitution, and wants to do away with anything that doesn't stick to it.

Don't listen to what candidates say they will do, look up their voting records on topics that are of importance to you. They will tell you a lot more than their mouths do. And people like McCain and Bush are a true identifier that just because someone has the label of a party, doesn't mean they stick to the fundamentals that the party was founded on.

-Sky

[FretaBWet]

Redneck, You remind me of a parrot. You learn a couple phrases like Obamanation or Obama is a communist and just keep saying it over and over. I'm guessing you probably have about the same I.Q as a parrot.

Why don't you try to prove me wrong. Try to put some sentences together stating how we are so much better off after eight years of Bush and Republican policies. I would love to see you write something that doesn't have Barak Obama's name or anything about Democrats. Just tell us how the Republicans are going to make us even better off than we are right now. Tell me how McCain and Palin are going to fix this country by keeping the same policies that are in place right now. If you're looking for an example of what stringing some coherent sentences together looks like take a look at Vic's post above yours. If you can pull this off you could sell it to Hollywood as the next plot for Mission Impossible.

Hugs,

Freta

[PampersPete]

The Unauthorized Biography of Dick Cheney

[redneck diaper boy]

Hitler was an angel when compared to Stalin.

McCain is no fascist or Nazi but Obama is surely a Communist.

Ask yourself this. Who wants to control your life? Who wants to tell you where to set your thermostat? Who wants to tell you what kind of vehicle to drive? Who wants to force you to see a doctor? Who wants to tell business who to hire and who to fire? Who wants to tell business how much they have to pay employees?

I know I posted it in another thread, but I have to post it again

The simple answer is: don't vote for either, and definitely don't vote for some fictional character. Vote for someone like Bob Barr or Ralph Nader, someone who represents your views.

Bob Barr is the presidential candidate for the libertarian party, which is one of the only parties that fully supports the constitution, and wants to do away with anything that doesn't stick to it.

Don't listen to what candidates say they will do, look up their voting records on topics that are of importance to you. They will tell you a lot more than their mouths do. And people like McCain and Bush are a true identifier that just because someone has the label of a party, doesn't mean they stick to the fundamentals that the party was founded on.

-Sky

[tenderheart]

Hitler was an angel when compared to Stalin.

McCain is no fascist or Nazi but Obama is surely a Communist.

Ask yourself this. Who wants to control your life? Who wants to tell you where to set your thermostat? Who wants to tell you what kind of vehicle to drive? Who wants to force you to see a doctor? Who wants to tell business who to hire and who to fire? Who wants to tell business how much they have to pay employees?

I don't think Obama has any interest in invading your personal life with government oversight. If anything the neo cons have been worse than anybody in that regard, warantless wiretaps, airport security, and the patriot act spring to mind. We already have a minium wage that employers must follow and affirmative action so those aren't exactly Obama originals. But I will agree Hitler looked meek compared to Stalin and Mussolini.

[babyvr6]

It's all a distraction. The election, the issues, the democrats, the republications, change, abortion, economy, white, black, everything! All it is is a way to keep us fighting so that we don't have the chance to see the bigger picture. As long as we are on this page, or at the dinner table, or the store, or the library, or the mall, or where ever, and we are fighting about our differences instead of uniting in our collective humanity! Then we shall never get anything done. What most people don't realize is that regardless who gets elected, weather it be Obama or McCain, The people who really run this country(lobbyists) will get what they want done. These are the REAL decisions that WILL impact your life on a daily basis.

Its about time we stand up! Not as an individual who has a different view than our neighbor, or mother, or father, or brother, or who ever, but as a collective nation of people who are PROUD to call this hunk of dirt home. Don't let some person who you'll never meet(let alone know on a personal level) decide how you and your family should live. Take to the streets and decide it your self! Remind them why they should fear their population. The call to arms is upon you, but only you can answer the door.

Once again, all the best,

Alerek

[Diaper Mike 05]

Redneck:

There is an American Communist Party, and it isn't the Democrats.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Communist_Party

There is also a Socialist Party in the United States.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Party_of_America

Obama isn't a Communist nor is he a Socialist, but he is a further left "liberal".

[FretaBWet]

Redneck, I asked you to be positive and you couldn't do it. You didn't write one word about why McCain would be good for our country.and you couldn't even write one post without throwing outrageous lies about Barak Obama into your post.

I'm not saying there's nothing wrong with our government. I'm not saying there's nothing wrong with the way we elect our officeholders. What I keep saying is the Republicans have failed miserably over the last eight years and it's time to trust in someone different. I'm not frightened that Barak Obama is black. I live in a neighborhood where I have almost as many black neighbors as white. My grandchildren have their black friends over all the time. I ride a bus to and from work every day and am friendly with black people who are just going to work to earn a living just like me.

Barak is a Christian. He has been attending the same church for the last 20 years. It doesn't matter that some of his relatives were Muslim. My Grandfather was Protestant and converted to Catholicism when he married my Grandmother. That doesn't make me a Protestant, I was raised Catholic.

I believe in Barak Obama. I believe he wants to help our country. It took FDR to get us out of the depression and I believe that Barak Obama has the ability to follow in his footsteps. I don't believe in electing some as****e that want to continue right down the same road that got us here in the first place. I don't care which news channel you watch, liberal or conservative it's all bad news. Bush put us here, Republicans put us here, very wealthy people put us here, greed put us here. Wake up and smell the coffee. If all you can do is bitch bitch bitch then you need to vote differently.

Hugs,

Freta

[redneck diaper boy]

The Democrats are Communist! The Republicans are getting there as well with this Freddie and Fannie bailout.

10 Planks of the Communist Manifesto

Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.

A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

Abolition of all right of inheritance.

Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.

Centralization of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.

Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.

Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

Equal liability of all to labour. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.

Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equable distribution of the population over the country.

Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, &c., &c.[4]

Redneck:

There is an American Communist Party, and it isn't the Democrats.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Communist_Party

There is also a Socialist Party in the United States.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Party_of_America

Obama isn't a Communist nor is he a Socialist, but he is a further left "liberal".

[redneck diaper boy]

Look I don't really like McCain. McCain if far to liberal for my liking. I am not voting to install McCain. I am voting to keep Obama out. Obama is an extreme liberal wacked out Communist. McCain is the lessor of two evils. I like Sarah Palin more than I like McCain. My idea of a good candidate would be Pat Buchannan, Ron Paul or David Duke.

Obama is a Muslim. Here is the video of him slipping. Obama used the Christian church to advance his political outcome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKdlu63uMP8

After he slipped he put a spin on it but I know what he is.

The fact that Obama is black doesn't bother me that much. The fact that he is a left wing Communist wacko scares the hell out of me.

Redneck, I asked you to be positive and you couldn't do it. You didn't write one word about why McCain would be good for our country.and you couldn't even write one post without throwing outrageous lies about Barak Obama into your post.

I'm not saying there's nothing wrong with our government. I'm not saying there's nothing wrong with the way we elect our officeholders. What I keep saying is the Republicans have failed miserably over the last eight years and it's time to trust in someone different. I'm not frightened that Barak Obama is black. I live in a neighborhood where I have almost as many black neighbors as white. My grandchildren have their black friends over all the time. I ride a bus to and from work every day and am friendly with black people who are just going to work to earn a living just like me.

Barak is a Christian. He has been attending the same church for the last 20 years. It doesn't matter that some of his relatives were Muslim. My Grandfather was Protestant and converted to Catholicism when he married my Grandmother. That doesn't make me a Protestant, I was raised Catholic.

I believe in Barak Obama. I believe he wants to help our country. It took FDR to get us out of the depression and I believe that Barak Obama has the ability to follow in his footsteps. I don't believe in electing some as****e that want to continue right down the same road that got us here in the first place. I don't care which news channel you watch, liberal or conservative it's all bad news. Bush put us here, Republicans put us here, very wealthy people put us here, greed put us here. Wake up and smell the coffee. If all you can do is bitch bitch bitch then you need to vote differently.

Hugs,

Freta

[Diaper Mike 05]

The Democrats are Communist! The Republicans are getting there as well with this Freddie and Fannie bailout.

10 Planks of the Communist Manifesto

1) Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.

2) A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

3) Abolition of all right of inheritance.

4) Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.

5) Centralization of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.

6) Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.

7) Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

8) Equal liability of all to labour. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.

9) Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equable distribution of the population over the country.

10) Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, &c., &c.[4]

OK, let's go down the planks one by one and see how "Communist" the Unites States as a whole really is!

1) This is done in the US as Eminent Domain. This was written into the Bill of Rights as the part of the 5th Amendment, which put a limit on how it could be used.

2) An regressive income tax for all is punishment for those on the lower end of the scale, which include students, the elderly, and the disabled who work low paying jobs. A flat income tax rate would also hurt the lower and middle classes more. In case you haven't noticed, the United States currently uses a progressive income tax. Also, in case you didn't know this also, the wealthy in this country have more tax exemptions they can use than anyone else simply because they can afford it.

3) I haven't seen anything suggesting Obama would end inheritance. However, in increase in the inheritance tax would have a somewhat equivilent effect, except it still wouldn't end it. Besides, I hear of people who plan on leaving nothing anyways because they feel it isn't their duty to work hard all their lives just to give it away when they die.

4) 2 words - illegal immigration. 2 more words - domestic terrorists. Any legal United States citizen has the right to own land in this country under the 14th Amendment.

5) Unless I'm reading this one wrong, isn't that called the Treasury?

6) Isn't that the FCC?

7) Farming is subsidized by the Government, but does that mean the government owns the farms, when the farmer still has to pay taxes on their harvest? I don't think so. Also, if it helps the growth or maintenence of our economy by recovering farmlands in some certain way, why shouldn't the government push forward that plan, knowing full well that the only way they can mandate something is if it has a (real or perceived) benefit that is great enough that it will have a widespread positive or does harm to a point it needs to be outlawed.

8) The only thing that comes to my mind there is unions.

9) This doesn't happen. No one dictates where you are to move unless it is for a job, or a legal order of some sort. Ordinary people living ordinary lives do not get forced to move certain places.

10) Are you kidding me that you'd bring this one into this conversation? The public school system is an important part of this nation, without which, many kids would not become educated. Child labor was a cruel practice that shouldn't be repeated as it was back when this was written.

So, in the United States, we have #'s 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, and 10 in some form or another. Yet, we are not a Communist country. Just because Communism is different in capitalism in many ways, doesn't mean they don't hold some of the same beliefs that we do here.

Please stop spouting your communist rhetoric on the boards without any proof. Rush Limbaugh is not a credible source. Fox News is not a credible source.

Also, that clip you present is reworked. Lets try and find a better (longer) clip to hear the whole context of the interview. He may have been thinking ahead to another part of what he was going to say and tripped up. I've done it before. If you believe that he said that and showed his true side, Rush is a racist because of his comments about black quarterbacks in the NFL. Or was that a slip?

Please add something with substance next time you decide to post in the political debates.

[sarah_ab]

So i just have to say, that i have no read this much racism and bigotry... well every.

If the few people who have carried this converastion on are any indication, than this nation is not any better off than it was 100 years ago in regards to diversity, equal rights, freedom of speach, and foreign policy.

It makes me sad to realize that what all those men and women in the armed forces who fought and died for was a dream unrealized.

We still live in a country so divided by personal fear and bigotry we can never truely be as great as we have deluded ourselves into thinking we are.

Reading this thread makes me sad, and even ashamed, to be associated with america, if this thread is an indication of the america of today, which it seems it is.

Ashamed we spend so much time bickering amongst ourselves. If we spent even half of the time and resources that go into 'slandering' someone of a different opinion, on feeding those in need, on caring for the children who are sick, on providing the basic necessities for those who have found they cannot care for ourselves, our nation would be in a lot better shape.

Whatever happened "treat your neighbor as you would wish to be treated"...

Oh well, carry on with the bickering.