Getting Surgery in Mexico

[Reddy]

On 1/19/2024 at 7:10 PM, padded-nightly said:

Have to admit I'm super jealous after reading this post.

Please don't listen to the naysayers, especially the ones who are trying to frighten you with incorrect information about how a hospital would deal with any emergency.

I will say that, personally, if I was talking to a doctor after the fact I would be factual and honest about your history. You can simply say "I had an elective transuretheral resection of the bladder neck, prostate, and sphincter." I don't think that hiding information from your doctor is going to yield good results.

I would also not assume that insurance is going to not cover anything remotely related to this in the future. Especially the farther you get from it in time, it will become far less relevant. Insurance will not notice or care if you get a bladder infection in a year and need antibiotics they are never going to notice that.

Anyway, best of luck, don't let the haters get you down, they are just jealous

Thanks!  I'm very excited.  It's just hard waiting almost three more weeks.

 

14 hours ago, superabsorbantpolymer said:

Yeah this was smart, as I said before (and I hope it doesn't make me a naysayer because you are living my fantasy at the same time), but you'll almost certainly need that referral. You're a urology patient for life now. You will have the urological anatomy of a paraplegic. You will have all sorts of issues and possible revisions in the future, but as other posters said it's all run of the mill. Each new doctor picks up where the last left off and will treat you as they find you even if it's self imposed. But your explanation of elective resection of all your continence organs to treat no specific condition except oab is a wild thing for a doctor to hear. But as said it is what it is at that point. They'll definitely  talk about it to their colleagues.

Your dreams are very interesting. Perhaps your sub conscious is not ready for a life of truly no control? There's artificial sphincters and such out there these days. If its absolutely not what you want you can probably "fix" it to some extent. Would be cool to have an artificial sphincter than you can toggle on/off. IDK if that's a thing but hopefully it will be. 

Thanks, I do think the dreams are interesting.  I'm not going to tell my doctors I had any elective procedure or the extent of it.  I'm just going to mention the procedure to deal with bladder retention.  I'm pretty sure I won't want to "fix" it although the technology is fascinating 

 

13 hours ago, Diaperman1995 said:

Wow that was a lot to read.  As a incontinent member for almost 3 decades I really think you are about to make a really big mistake.  But it is your life and if you are willing to live with the mistake then so be it.  /i can tell you it is no fun at all when you can not turn it off.  YOu may be excited now but you will one day regret this.  Even if you do accept being incontinent and the surgery goes well you are going to have days you will feel so stupid for doing this to yourself. 

Think of all the times you have wet your diaper already and then get the urge and you know your diaper can not hold it so you hold it in until you can go change.  That is never going to be a option.  You will leak in public and you will have to change in public spaces around people you know.  When I am sick and hurting I just wish I could not move but I have to change my diaper.  Diaper rash will happen especially in the summer months and you will want a break.  But your only option for that break will be a condom cath or foley.   Skin heals so much faster when not wet.  I am spending over $250 a month on diapers and I never get a break from that either.   With incontinence comes bladder infections as well.  They can turn ugly and become life threatening kidney infections and then turn septic all in one day.  I have lost count the number of times I have became septic and in the hospital even the ICU. Your bladder size will shrink the walls will become thick and covered in cystitis. It cause horrible bladder spasms and burning much like a infection.  That can turn into a bladder cancer.   I am not making shit up or trying to scare you into doing something different but I really hope you do some real research on the negatives and why only a hack for hire in mexico would do this surgery.  Scar tissue forming in strictures is very real and can even block off things.  I have had stricture surgery a couple times in my life.  I am 10 years older than you and I do have a lot of other health issues.  But Incontinence brings a lot in it's self more than I have seen anyone here post.  I had a bladder stim put in to try and help mine and it is a simple out paitent surgery. Only mine got infected badly and I became septic twice from it before it had to be removed.  The last time the infection settled around my heart.  Any surgery no matter the path taken and procedure used are able to cause infection and tissue death.     I just want you to really study up on the negatives as much as you can in the next week.  If you decide to go through with it at least you have a idea. 

What is the longest you have went wearing a diaper 24/7? The fact you was thinking about flying down un diapered makes me wonder if you are really mentally prepared.  Also You have worn diapers knowing you did not need them and it makes you feel wrong. How are you going to feel when you know deep in your heart you never needed them and you created this issue?  How are you going to feel if it becomes a life threatening infection?

 

To answer your question if you do this or when you do this should you tell your american doctor the truth if you have complications?  Yes 100% you should tell him.  What you tell him he can not share with your family or anyone that is not treating you. Do not be ashamed of what you did so bad you would over look telling someone your full medical history.   I can assure you he will without a doubt know that you are not being honest when he runs a scope up you and sees what has been cut.  Having a surgery to loosen for retention is not the same as cutting both bladder sphincters and the inside of the prostate.  He will know you had a hack job done and he will want to see the medical records of the surgery you told him you had done.  He is going to want to know what hospital and why it was done.  If you are not honest you only stand the chance of getting inadequate healthcare for the complications you are having.  It is not like they can do a surgery to reverse what is done without your consent.  

Anyway these are my thoughts as someone who has lived 30 years bladder incontinent and the last 5 with fecal incontinence getting worse yearly.   Please Promise you will never go for loss of number 2 because you 1000% have no clue what you are asking.      I apologize if it sounds like am am busting your balls for fun.  I just want to make sure you really know what you are asking.  Unless you have went 3-5 years 24/7 you have not got a clue & even then it is not the same as being incontinent.  

I want you to be happy so I will not keep busting your balls.  But if you have this done be honest to the group over the next few years if you was right or wrong to want this and if it was as easy and great a life as you imagined.  That is what I ask.   You have my best wishes and I sadly look forward to reading how this goes long term.

 

I really appreciate this input.  I'm undeterred for now, but you may be right about a lot of this.  I am sure I will deal with regrets.  I just don't know how frequently I'll have them.  Your comment about knowing that I never needed them and I created this issue kind of hits.  But I think this is the best I can do.  But in reality, a doctor did it, and maybe I'm acting irritationally, so in a way it's still "happening to me" rather than the other way around.

 

9 hours ago, cathdiap said:

This topic has made me think a lot about my increasing desires for incontinence in recent months Although the idea of being irreversibly incontinent is very tempting at times, to the point where I started considering having this surgery done myself, I keep coming back to the belief that I should NEVER do it. as long as I

1) lose interest in diapers after masturbating on the thought of being incontinent

2) stop wearing diapers when visiting family

3) get bored of the constant peeing and wetness between my legs

Over the last few weeks all of these things have happened, so for now I know I am definitely not ready for it. So given all the reasons I still have for wanting to become incontinent, I face a major mental challenge for the near future. 

And then there is the ethical question of whether the costs of any postoperative interventions and aftercare should be passed on to society or borne by the patient. What do we think of that?

Good input.  I have all of the situations "1, 2, 3" you mentioned and I still am determined to go through with this, for what it's worth.  In my country, costs are either paid by the patient or by insurance, which the patient must purchase.

[Mishadip]

On 1/18/2024 at 9:21 PM, Diapered Dave said:

And remember the MOST IMPORTANT THING ABOUT MEXICO!!!!

Don't drink the water. 🤔😣😳

 

I'd be cautious about having this surgery done regardless of it's location.   US,Mexico, the moon.  There are risks to any surgery. This elective surgery could have other complications.

Secondly perminant bladder incontinence, I would assume would get old to someone sooner or  later.

Once done there is now way to regain control over your bladder. You will be stuck with that forever.  

I'm just a DL little, took  the opportunity to wear diapers for 52 hours. It was great to literally pee anytime anywhere.

But after just 52 hours I was so ready to get out of them for awhile. I gave diapers about a two week break before I wore another one. 

With regular wear it gets easier and easier to wet.  Sooner or later you will develop a certain level of natural bladder incontinence. 

Be safe my friend.

[Reddy]

13 minutes ago, Mishadip said:

 

I'd be cautious about having this surgery done regardless of it's location.   US,Mexico, the moon.  There are risks to any surgery. This elective surgery could have other complications.

Secondly perminant bladder incontinence, I would assume would get old to someone sooner or  later.

Once done there is now way to regain control over your bladder. You will be stuck with that forever.  

I'm just a DL little, took  the opportunity to wear diapers for 52 hours. It was great to literally pee anytime anywhere.

But after just 52 hours I was so ready to get out of them for awhile. I gave diapers about a two week break before I wore another one. 

With regular wear it gets easier and easier to wet.  Sooner or later you will develop a certain level of natural bladder incontinence. 

Be safe my friend.

Thanks, I appreciate the input and wishes for safety.  I just don't think I'll ever develop incontinence by wearing diapers, although I'm sure it can be done for others.  I just don't tend to wear diapers that often.  And I would never wear them to work.  I'd be way too self conscious being diapered at work or around family and most friends.  That's why I need the surgery.

[superabsorbantpolymer]

35 minutes ago, Reddy said:

 And I would never wear them to work.  I'd be way too self conscious being diapered at work or around family and most friends.  That's why I need the surgery.

(Insert aforementioned disclaimer about respecting your life your choices etc) 

By that statement it sounds like you really aren't ready to be stuck in diapers 24/7. I've worn 24/7 for very long stints, living with family, at work, on trips with friends, countless flights. I've visibly leaked and wet my clothes in public many times. I've purchased adult diapers, where it was clear they were for me many times. Many people in my life know, some have made small remarks to confirm their observations. I am probably more "accustomed" to wearing 24/7 than you given your description.

The one thing that seems to break my many month long stints is the realization that despite my "acclimatization"  to being in thick diapers all the time for months on end, I am at its core self conscious of my buldge, butt shape, leaks, smells, to a point that it makes me avoid social interaction (not completely but it is limiting) and honestly bring on a kind of depression. 

Despite my love of diapers and instant cravings to return and lack of a real purge cycle, it's nice to slip on a pair of underwear if I want to be "normal" for a day or a week.

I guess it's like how trans surgeons require people to live as the gender they are transitioning to before performing radical interventions. If you haven't walked through your office with a wet patch on your butt, or waddled down the aisle of a plane with a visibly sagging diaper butt, or sat down for a picnic with your extended family and a diaper bulge on your shorts, you are ignorant of the reality of the life you're jumping into.  

But also you're a pioneer and I hope you (and wetguy and others) continue to update us. If all goes well maybe I'll get the surgery someday... (if my 24/7 usage doesn't obviate the need).

[Reddy]

It's true, I think you have a lot more experience than me.  Part of my problem is I don't enjoy choosing to wear diapers (although I do, and I have worn for longer periods), as much as I enjoy being truly forced to wear diapers.  As unrealistic as that has been until now.

Yes, I'll keep everybody updated, good or bad. 👍

[superabsorbantpolymer]

At the very least you may as well go conspicuously 24/7 from now until the surgery. Go to the store in an already wet diaper and wet it more so it leaks. Meet some friends for  drinks and flood so it leaks. (Why wait to start your social lock in!)

Have some really inconvenient, embarrassing experiences and expose yourself to what is your new reality in a few weeks. What is so different about doing those things now vs a few weeks time when you have no choice? How are you sure you won't end up hiding at home in your perpetually soaked diaper?

Personally I know I can deal with the embarrassment (but it grows old and I like the break). You may as well make sure you can too before pulling the trigger. IDK just some thoughts. 

[Reddy]

I don't really want to do that I guess.  I would feel weird doing it because it would seem kind of on purpose.  Plus I don't really want to have any leaks in front of anybody.  I'm going to change my diaper a lot so I don't have any.  I think I should be able to hide the fact that I wear diapers from everybody except the few I am close with.

But I don't want to hide in my home.  I will have to make sure I push myself to go out and do things frequently.  I also want to join the gym again.  I need to get more activity.  I think working out will help me in a lot of ways.

[Reddy]

I need to make sure I follow through on the gym membership.  I think it would be good for me.  I should give it two months after surgery for healing and then start at the gym by April 12th.  Even if it's just slow at first and just to build the habit.

I want to hold myself to that.

[superabsorbantpolymer]

Yeah the gym is great for you, and something I should do more of myself! I've gone to the gym diapered, or in pull ups. It's probably one of the times when I've felt the most self conscious given the range of motions, mirrors, other active ppl watching each other. Have you?

You may as well join now and start the healthy habit before hand, regular exercise would probably help reduce risk of complications. Could you face going to the gym now wearing a diaper/pull up to see how it feels? 

[Reddy]

I never have yet, but you're right, I should be exercising now.  I should become as healthy as I can going into surgery.  I think I'll wait until after surgery, since I would waste two months without using the gym otherwise.  But I should do some exercises at home and also walk a lot.

[foreverdl]

3 hours ago, Mishadip said:

 

I'd be cautious about having this surgery done regardless of it's location.   US,Mexico, the moon.  There are risks to any surgery. This elective surgery could have other complications.

Secondly perminant bladder incontinence, I would assume would get old to someone sooner or  later.

Once done there is now way to regain control over your bladder. You will be stuck with that forever.  

I'm just a DL little, took  the opportunity to wear diapers for 52 hours. It was great to literally pee anytime anywhere.

But after just 52 hours I was so ready to get out of them for awhile. I gave diapers about a two week break before I wore another one. 

With regular wear it gets easier and easier to wet.  Sooner or later you will develop a certain level of natural bladder incontinence. 

Be safe my friend.

You have good points. I kinda wish I could afford to have that surgery done, but I have issues I can't pee sometimes , I sometimes pee without being able to stop. I am on 24/7 pain meds. I have been diapers 24/7 for a long time? I think 2014? and I wore them to work everyday working out in the field an electrician . I do love the idea of having no control so I would have a steady small flow. A Balance . But I have had soo many cancer surgeries I don't want to do anymore at all. So I chose other ways and still trying to get that balance. But its to each there own. We have no choices of what anyone does, only thing we can do is offer our experience and our Advice and keeping it at that.

[superabsorbantpolymer]

I've been thinking about this surgery all weekend sorry to keep spamming the thread. 

Do you know what your surgeon plans to do exactly? I've been reading up on bladder neck resection and transurethral resection of the prostate and it seems neither have incontinence as common long term effects. 

I saw this resource for bladder neck incision which says: 

>> Incontinence, or leakage of urine without control, occasionally occurs but is usually temporary and only lasts a few days to weeks. Only very few patients have incontinence which lasts beyond this time. If you were to have any incontinence after your operation, you would be given information and instructions about exercises that you can do to strengthen the pelvic floor muscles. These muscles help with control of your urine flow and toning these muscles helps to maintain your continence.

You are essentially widening your urethral tract, which may make it easier to pass urine, but you'll still have your pelvic floor muscles and nerve function, so I wonder if there may be residual control. I would love if one of those who have got the surgery could share what incisions were made? I'd love to hear how wet guy is getting on. 

 

You have mentioned surgery as alleviating a need to be forced to wear diapers. If the surgery is unsuccessful in causing incontinence long term will you continue to wear 24/7?

Btw I saw this YouTube video in which a surgeon talks about scar tissue due to bladder neck incision. He mentions using small amounts of Mitomycin C (chemo med) at the incision point to prevent scarring of the urethra (which can cause blockage). I wonder if you might consider asking your surgeon to do the same? 

[Diaperman1995]

21 hours ago, cathdiap said:

This topic has made me think a lot about my increasing desires for incontinence in recent months Although the idea of being irreversibly incontinent is very tempting at times, to the point where I started considering having this surgery done myself, I keep coming back to the belief that I should NEVER do it. as long as I

1) lose interest in diapers after masturbating on the thought of being incontinent

2) stop wearing diapers when visiting family

3) get bored of the constant peeing and wetness between my legs

Over the last few weeks all of these things have happened, so for now I know I am definitely not ready for it. So given all the reasons I still have for wanting to become incontinent, I face a major mental challenge for the near future. 

And then there is the ethical question of whether the costs of any postoperative interventions and aftercare should be passed on to society or borne by the patient. What do we think of that?

I think you are giving yourself solid advise here.  If you can not commit 247 with 100% zero cheating never using the potty to go wee than you are not ready to live life that away.  Are you willing to have incontinence be center stage during sex with your partner or future partners.  Have to lay down bed pads possible even pass a catheter first to make sure you are starting out complete empty.   That's what   I have to do.  Then If I do manage to have orgasm with my wife before pissing on her or the bed I would love to be able to just fall a sleep in her arms.  But nope as soon as I am done she is telling me to hurry and put a diaper on before I ruin the bed.    I do not see how people cant just enjoy without losing control.  Reddy was talking like he was not going to wear a diaper down on his flight to get surgery.  It was not until someone told him if you have diapers in your bag TSA is going to wonder why you do not have one on.   If you guys think having to need them is going to make you feel less embarrassed to wear them you guys are flawed in your thinking.   Only thing that makes you gain confidence is time.  I have been wearing pads or diapers 24/7 pretty much from middle school and I am 47 years old.  I still to this day have nightmares a few times a month of being found out by people I would never tell.   Especially after developing fecal incontinence.     I am not saying that you or Reddy could never handle it But it is a hard life and I wish to hell I get my continence back.  Truth is diapers are part of me now and i would not feel right in underwear.  But a cozy dry diaper would be heaven. 

I cant really swim or  enjoy myself.  I cant go into the water with a diaper but as soon as I am out of the water I take a chance of people seeing me wet.  So you either have to stay in the water or stay out.   Now all the loose stool I am having I would never even dream of getting in the water.     

 

When your bladder shrinks and the walls become thick and hard from not working and stretching it becomes very painful and spasms.  This can lead to cystitis and and ever cancer.  If yo end up in chronic pain everyday or with bladder cancer can you live with the Idea that you did that to yourself.   What If 10-15 years from now because of the bladder shrinking and getting tumors the doctors want to remove it.  I have never heard of them just hooking your kidneys up tp drain in a diaper.   You either end up with tubes coming straight out the kidneys going to bags or they fashion a bladder from part of your colon you have to either empty with a catheter through a stoma or you wear a urostomy bag.    Then you never get the sensation of peeing yourself again.  

 

I love how people tell him not to listen to the nae sayers when they are not the one scheduled for surgery.  Also when the majority of the nay sayers are incontinent and the people cheering him on are clueless to what incontinence is and the negative health issues it can have on your life.   Not to mention $3500 a year for the rest of your life.  That is if they do not keep going up.

 

cathdip I know you guys are passionate about wanting this but I am glad to hear that you have set some standard to not taking suck a drastic step until you 100% know in your head you are not making a mistake.  

If you cant stay in them day and night 24/7 for no reason cheating you really are not ready.     thank you for sharing that

[superabsorbantpolymer]

I've continued to think about this subject, apologies again for thread jacking. The figures bandied about are interesting. The surgery costs $25k + let's say $3k for flights and hotels etc. There may be other costs like prescriptions, aftercare etc so let's round it to $30k to be safe. 

Let's say you spend $300/month on diapers/creams/pads/etc (conservative but realistic). That's 100 months of 24/7 diapering - 8.3 years. Since one making this decision would already have the lump sum, if they chose to forgo the surgery they could invest it. If they got 5% return and only used the fund to subsidize $200 of diapering it would last 20, you get the idea. One could utilize a tax advantage healthcare investment accounts and play around with contributions/withdrawals to make this go even further. 

One could then live diapered 24/7, and discuss oab/urge issues with your doctor. It's a complex and common issue which can be influenced by behavior (e.g. toilet training vs diaper training), lifestyle (e.g. diuretic food and drinks), anatomy, other diseases, weight, age etc. It's very difficult to pin point exactly why someone has oab and clinicians are guided on the types of treatments, and informed that patients may choose what fits them. Here's one source: https://www.auanet.org/guidelines-and-quality/guidelines/overactive-bladder-(oab)-guideline

You could follow through with the therapies (e.g. bladder diary, behavioral interventions) but make no effort of avoiding accidents. Then move on to prescriptions, maybe even take some to see if it makes it easier to use your diaper, as some are muscle relaxants. Its up to you if you actually take them, you could just report side effects and not take them.

With each attempt at treatment, you'll build a history and your case will be plausible to each new doctor who you tell you've tried x pill, y therapy. You could legit tell your family and friends you're seeing a doctor to treat the issue, and wear diapers openly.

If after a few years of this strategy you still desire surgery, you'll get 3rd line treatment options for your chronic, treatment resistant, worsening oab and urge issues. These 3rd line options include what the mexico clinic surgery will do, at least in part (turp and bladder neck resection). Those surgeries would be covered by your insurance/etc and would be performed in a more legitimate system.

Over time with 24/7 usage, you will encounter the oab, leakage etc issues ppl here have reported, so you wouldn't even be lying at that point and with each surgery and revision comes further damage to your natural anatomy and increased risk of lack of control. You'll have the same outcome but could have jumping off points if you decide the lifestyle isn't for you, or could realize after social lock in and diaper training you don't need the surgery and eliminate the risks. Either way you'll have funded a decade plus of diapering.

As I mentioned before, I'm skeptical that turp/bladder neck resection will give you long term incontinence. In that case, you may be purchasing a painful, risky $30k  "social lock in" (since you plan on going 24/7 regardless after). It may be the Mexican surgeon has a special technique, cutting different parts of your anatomy than typically recommended. But that runs the risk of scarring etc which is not what you want. 

As always, I'm not trying to change your mind, just sharing some of my internal calculus on the matter.

[ozziebee]

I'm totally torn with my thoughts regarding your impending surgery Reddy, to be honest.  I absolutely do not want to come across as a nay-sayer, as that would be totally hypocritical of me.  You see, I submitted myself many many years ago (well before such thing became fashionable) to gender reassignment surgery, which is very much non-reversible.  At the time I had to transition myself and my life in every way (legally, visually, emotionally), and live such life for a minimum 1 year before surgery became an option.  I also had to consult with two psychiatrists, both of which had to agree to the surgery.  I've not regretted that decision.

Thus, I'm torn on whether I agree with the circumstances of this surgery.  

Don't get me wrong here, I too would love to have such surgery performed, preferably here in Australia.  But it should be performed only under guidance and medical supervision, as Diaperman and others have alluded to the potential risks immediately after surgery, and long-term.  

What are red flags for me are some comments that Reddy has put here - things like not wearing diapers all the time but only on occasion, no 24x7 lifestyle, not wearing diapers to work, not flying down there wearing diapers, not really taking an abundance of diapers, suitable clothing, and other supplies for the days before and after the surgery, no real preparedness for complications (staying at the recovery centre rather than in a hotel room, not being up front with your docs so they can help if things go pear-shaped once you get back home, and potential additional financial outlay), and no family preparedness for the emotional turmoil you may experience once home.  This to me points to a lack of long-term mental preparedness and experience in what it's like to wear diapers 24x7x365.  Once the surgery is done, it's too late to begin the learning process for how to deal with diapers in the workplace, how many diapers does one need when out and about, or on holidays, or how much supply one needs at home.  As a result, I'm concerned for the outcome, but I don't know Reddy, or his ability to cope with new life experiences.  It seemed (on the surface) an impulse decision to go for it.

However, I absolutely get the reason(s) why Reddy is doing this now.  Yes, I am _totally_ jealous, and am eagerly looking forward to future posts on his experience, both pre and post-op.  

I think of reasons to stop myself from seeking such surgery, all the time.  Yes, I've been 24x7x365 mostly for the past 6 years, building up a work history in nappies, going to doctors wearing nappies, going on holidays wearing nappies, flying cross country and through airport security etc,  and the finality of such urethral surgery would be something I too seek.  But, the gender reassignment surgery left me with a very short urethra, and some strictures and scarring down there.  So I wonder whether such sphincterotomy would be even possible, and potentially difficult to achieve a successful and smooth outcome, and so the risk outweighs the potential "reward".  Would I be making a mistake if I did have the surgery?  No.  Would there be different incontinence experiences to what I have now?  Yes, absolutely, and I would need to change my strategy for dealing with those changes accordingly (for instance, I generally don't leak onto the floor when I'm naked after a shower, so how would I ensure I don't leak onto the carpet in my bedroom when getting dressed?)

All I can say is "Go into this venture with eyes wide open".  

Fingers crossed for a good result!

[Reddy]

21 hours ago, superabsorbantpolymer said:

I've been thinking about this surgery all weekend sorry to keep spamming the thread. 

Do you know what your surgeon plans to do exactly? I've been reading up on bladder neck resection and transurethral resection of the prostate and it seems neither have incontinence as common long term effects. 

I saw this resource for bladder neck incision which says: 

>> Incontinence, or leakage of urine without control, occasionally occurs but is usually temporary and only lasts a few days to weeks. Only very few patients have incontinence which lasts beyond this time. If you were to have any incontinence after your operation, you would be given information and instructions about exercises that you can do to strengthen the pelvic floor muscles. These muscles help with control of your urine flow and toning these muscles helps to maintain your continence.

You are essentially widening your urethral tract, which may make it easier to pass urine, but you'll still have your pelvic floor muscles and nerve function, so I wonder if there may be residual control. I would love if one of those who have got the surgery could share what incisions were made? I'd love to hear how wet guy is getting on. 

 

You have mentioned surgery as alleviating a need to be forced to wear diapers. If the surgery is unsuccessful in causing incontinence long term will you continue to wear 24/7?

Btw I saw this YouTube video in which a surgeon talks about scar tissue due to bladder neck incision. He mentions using small amounts of Mitomycin C (chemo med) at the incision point to prevent scarring of the urethra (which can cause blockage). I wonder if you might consider asking your surgeon to do the same? 

I think it is possibly different from the resource you linked, which was bladder neck incision.  I believe that is one or maybe two simple incisions into the bladder neck's scar tissue or extra tissue/blockage (assuming it exists, being the reason for that procedure).

The incontinence procedure includes resection of bladder neck, prostate, and sphincter.

A resection is a cutting away or removal/scraping.  I'm not sure if that's commonly done to the bladder neck, even alongside a TURP (I just don't know).

I'm not an expert or even very knowledgeable by any means, but I do hope the procedure is much more than those procedures that only "might" cause incontinence and only temporarily.  I'm hoping this is complete and permanent, and I am assuming it's at least somewhat more aggressive than standard procedures.

 

1 hour ago, superabsorbantpolymer said:

I've continued to think about this subject, apologies again for thread jacking. The figures bandied about are interesting. The surgery costs $25k + let's say $3k for flights and hotels etc. There may be other costs like prescriptions, aftercare etc so let's round it to $30k to be safe. 

Let's say you spend $300/month on diapers/creams/pads/etc (conservative but realistic). That's 100 months of 24/7 diapering - 8.3 years. Since one making this decision would already have the lump sum, if they chose to forgo the surgery they could invest it. If they got 5% return and only used the fund to subsidize $200 of diapering it would last 20, you get the idea. One could utilize a tax advantage healthcare investment accounts and play around with contributions/withdrawals to make this go even further. 

One could then live diapered 24/7, and discuss oab/urge issues with your doctor. It's a complex and common issue which can be influenced by behavior (e.g. toilet training vs diaper training), lifestyle (e.g. diuretic food and drinks), anatomy, other diseases, weight, age etc. It's very difficult to pin point exactly why someone has oab and clinicians are guided on the types of treatments, and informed that patients may choose what fits them. Here's one source: https://www.auanet.org/guidelines-and-quality/guidelines/overactive-bladder-(oab)-guideline

You could follow through with the therapies (e.g. bladder diary, behavioral interventions) but make no effort of avoiding accidents. Then move on to prescriptions, maybe even take some to see if it makes it easier to use your diaper, as some are muscle relaxants. Its up to you if you actually take them, you could just report side effects and not take them.

With each attempt at treatment, you'll build a history and your case will be plausible to each new doctor who you tell you've tried x pill, y therapy. You could legit tell your family and friends you're seeing a doctor to treat the issue, and wear diapers openly.

If after a few years of this strategy you still desire surgery, you'll get 3rd line treatment options for your chronic, treatment resistant, worsening oab and urge issues. These 3rd line options include what the mexico clinic surgery will do, at least in part (turp and bladder neck resection). Those surgeries would be covered by your insurance/etc and would be performed in a more legitimate system.

Over time with 24/7 usage, you will encounter the oab, leakage etc issues ppl here have reported, so you wouldn't even be lying at that point and with each surgery and revision comes further damage to your natural anatomy and increased risk of lack of control. You'll have the same outcome but could have jumping off points if you decide the lifestyle isn't for you, or could realize after social lock in and diaper training you don't need the surgery and eliminate the risks. Either way you'll have funded a decade plus of diapering.

As I mentioned before, I'm skeptical that turp/bladder neck resection will give you long term incontinence. In that case, you may be purchasing a painful, risky $30k  "social lock in" (since you plan on going 24/7 regardless after). It may be the Mexican surgeon has a special technique, cutting different parts of your anatomy than typically recommended. But that runs the risk of scarring etc which is not what you want. 

As always, I'm not trying to change your mind, just sharing some of my internal calculus on the matter.

Don't worry about thread hijacking.  I appreciate the engagement and I'm always glad when there's a new post.  This is one of my only outlets for all the thoughts and feelings I have about the upcoming surgery.

I think the financial concepts you mentioned like time-value of money and tax implications are interesting.  The surgery is certainly a huge outlay upfront.

It would be an interesting comparison to have me going for surgery and someone else following the process you described.  I don't think it would work for me.  Firstly, because now that I know the surgery exists, I HAVE to have it, no matter what.  And when it comes to this incontinence, I want it now.  It's so hard for me to wait event the less-than-three weeks remaining.  Secondly, because I think I would just get bored of trying and give up.  I think I would feel awkward telling my doctor about OAB, wondering if it will really become a problem, meanwhile having to pretend somewhat in order to enforce the lifestyle.  I think I would just stop because of the effort involved and give up.  Whereas the incontinence surgery could, if successful, just render me incontinent immediately.

[superabsorbantpolymer]

7 minutes ago, Reddy said:

I think it is possibly different from the resource you linked, which was bladder neck incision.  I believe that is one or maybe two simple incisions into the bladder neck's scar tissue or extra tissue/blockage (assuming it exists, being the reason for that procedure).

The incontinence procedure includes resection of bladder neck, prostate, and sphincter.

A resection is a cutting away or removal/scraping.  I'm not sure if that's commonly done to the bladder neck, even alongside a TURP (I just don't know).

I'm not an expert or even very knowledgeable by any means, but I do hope the procedure is much more than those procedures that only "might" cause incontinence and only temporary.  I'm hoping this is complete and permanent, and assuming it's at least somewhat more aggressive.

I'm also a layman, albeit with a scientific background. This resource is specifically for transurethral resection of the bladder neck. Afaict It's a procedure done (as with turp) to increase flow. It's often done as a revision /secondary procedure after turp alone has not improved flow, or when scarring has developed post other surgeries. 

Then there is the urethral sphincterotomy, do you know if it is the internal or external that your surgeon is removing? The internal seems to be part of the bladder neck, and operations to it seem to be for the same problems and expecting the same outcome (better flow). The external sphincter is voluntarily controlled, perhaps they are operating on this? Could you ask your surgeon for more exact info?

You will no doubt have some continence problems post surgery, the sources say that short term incontinence post turp/bladder neck incision are common. In addition to healing improving their incontinence/not having a surgeon willing do as much damage as possible, most patients will engage with their clinicians advise to rehab post surgery and improve their continence long term. You will be doing the opposite (using your surgery as an excuse to use diapers 24/7), and as such won't have the benefits of rehab. If you have control it will be diminished. If you continue to use 24/7 and rely on your diapers in this diminished state it's likely you'll spiral and remain/become dependent. 

 

[Reddy]

1 hour ago, ozziebee said:

I'm totally torn with my thoughts regarding your impending surgery Reddy, to be honest.  I absolutely do not want to come across as a nay-sayer, as that would be totally hypocritical of me.  You see, I submitted myself many many years ago (well before such thing became fashionable) to gender reassignment surgery, which is very much non-reversible.  At the time I had to transition myself and my life in every way (legally, visually, emotionally), and live such life for a minimum 1 year before surgery became an option.  I also had to consult with two psychiatrists, both of which had to agree to the surgery.  I've not regretted that decision.

Thus, I'm torn on whether I agree with the circumstances of this surgery.  

Don't get me wrong here, I too would love to have such surgery performed, preferably here in Australia.  But it should be performed only under guidance and medical supervision, as Diaperman and others have alluded to the potential risks immediately after surgery, and long-term.  

What are red flags for me are some comments that Reddy has put here - things like not wearing diapers all the time but only on occasion, no 24x7 lifestyle, not wearing diapers to work, not flying down there wearing diapers, not really taking an abundance of diapers, suitable clothing, and other supplies for the days before and after the surgery, no real preparedness for complications (staying at the recovery centre rather than in a hotel room, not being up front with your docs so they can help if things go pear-shaped once you get back home, and potential additional financial outlay), and no family preparedness for the emotional turmoil you may experience once home.  This to me points to a lack of long-term mental preparedness and experience in what it's like to wear diapers 24x7x365.  Once the surgery is done, it's too late to begin the learning process for how to deal with diapers in the workplace, how many diapers does one need when out and about, or on holidays, or how much supply one needs at home.  As a result, I'm concerned for the outcome, but I don't know Reddy, or his ability to cope with new life experiences.  It seemed (on the surface) an impulse decision to go for it.

However, I absolutely get the reason(s) why Reddy is doing this now.  Yes, I am _totally_ jealous, and am eagerly looking forward to future posts on his experience, both pre and post-op.  

I think of reasons to stop myself from seeking such surgery, all the time.  Yes, I've been 24x7x365 mostly for the past 6 years, building up a work history in nappies, going to doctors wearing nappies, going on holidays wearing nappies, flying cross country and through airport security etc,  and the finality of such urethral surgery would be something I too seek.  But, the gender reassignment surgery left me with a very short urethra, and some strictures and scarring down there.  So I wonder whether such sphincterotomy would be even possible, and potentially difficult to achieve a successful and smooth outcome, and so the risk outweighs the potential "reward".  Would I be making a mistake if I did have the surgery?  No.  Would there be different incontinence experiences to what I have now?  Yes, absolutely, and I would need to change my strategy for dealing with those changes accordingly (for instance, I generally don't leak onto the floor when I'm naked after a shower, so how would I ensure I don't leak onto the carpet in my bedroom when getting dressed?)

All I can say is "Go into this venture with eyes wide open".  

Fingers crossed for a good result!

Thanks for your thoughtful post and for sharing aspects of your own journey.  I think the advice to go with eyes wide open is good advice.  I am honestly surprised I haven't had more second thoughts about this.  Normally when I get excited about something, I turn it over and over in my mind, and I can find some point of concern that leads me to be more cautious.  Whether I think I might change my mind, whether the risks start to scare me too much, etc.  But I haven't felt any of that, yet.

I know there are risks, but it really seems like this is the best full force option to become incontinent that's available to me.  I feel pretty sure after thinking about this non-stop for the past few weeks that I'll actually regret more spending any additional time being continent and out of diapers.

It does seem a little reckless.  I can observe that in myself.  There is so much that I haven't prepared for.  There will be hard adjustments, awkwardness, embarrassment, and pain.  It's true that I don't have a lot of experience in dealing with this lifestyle before.  I have never been incontinent, and aside from the occasional play, I don't tend to wear diapers very often.  I usually get bored of it and just prefer to go in normal clothes.  And I prefer not having to deal with the inconvenience and awkwardness of wearing a diaper.  I just get bored of it and it's not worth it to wear them.  I ultimately don't even see the point since I don't need to wear diapers.

That's why I know I need to get this surgery.  This will make me totally incontinent and it will take away all choice of whether to wear diapers.  That is what I want.  I will be trapped in diapers for the rest of my life.  I'm beyond happy.  I couldn't even imagine a few weeks ago how lucky I would be to not only find out this is possible, but to have my own procedure scheduled just a few more weeks away!

15 minutes ago, superabsorbantpolymer said:

I'm also a layman, albeit with a scientific background. This resource is specifically for transurethral resection of the bladder neck. Afaict It's a procedure done (as with turp) to increase flow. It's often done as a revision /secondary procedure after turp alone has not improved flow, or when scarring has developed post other surgeries. 

Then there is the urethral sphincterotomy, do you know if it is the internal or external that your surgeon is removing? The internal seems to be part of the bladder neck, and operations to it seem to be for the same problems and expecting the same outcome (better flow). The external sphincter is voluntarily controlled, perhaps they are operating on this? Could you ask your surgeon for more exact info?

You will no doubt have some continence problems post surgery, the sources say that short term incontinence post turp/bladder neck incision are common. In addition to healing improving their incontinence/not having a surgeon willing do as much damage as possible, most patients will engage with their clinicians advise to rehab post surgery and improve their continence long term. You will be doing the opposite (using your surgery as an excuse to use diapers 24/7), and as such won't have the benefits of rehab. If you have control it will be diminished. If you continue to use 24/7 and rely on your diapers in this diminished state it's likely you'll spiral and remain/become dependent. 

 

I think they are mostly resecting scar tissue though.  I assume my surgeon will be resecting healthy internal sphincter tissue within the bladder neck.

Yes, I believe the lower (external) sphincter is resected too.

I do like your idea to ask the surgeon for more detail about the procedure.  All I truly know is still just that it's "transurethral resection of the bladder neck, prostate, and sphincter."

[superabsorbantpolymer]

44 minutes ago, Reddy said:

Don't worry about thread hijacking.  I appreciate the engagement and I'm always glad when there's a new post.  This is one of my only outlets for all the thoughts and feelings I have about the upcoming surgery.

Thanks, I'm glad you value my input! 

 

44 minutes ago, Reddy said:

It would be an interesting comparison to have me going for surgery and someone else following the process you described.  I don't think it would work for me.  Firstly, because now that I know the surgery exists, I HAVE to have it, no matter what.  And when it comes to this incontinence, I want it now.  It's so hard for me to wait event the less-than-three weeks remaining.  Secondly, because I think I would just get bored of trying and give up.  I think I would feel awkward telling my doctor about OAB, wondering if it will really become a problem, meanwhile having to pretend somewhat in order to enforce the lifestyle.  I think I would just stop because of the effort involved and give up.  Whereas the incontinence surgery could, if successful, just render me incontinent immediately.

Well I guess I intend to be that individual, as are many of the 24/7 people here. 

To re-ask as I think it got lost in the thread: do you intend to continue to wear and use 24/7 if in a few months the inflammation has gone down and some control returns?

[Reddy]

16 minutes ago, superabsorbantpolymer said:

Thanks, I'm glad you value my input! 

 

Well I guess I intend to be that individual, as are many of the 24/7 people here. 

To re-ask as I think it got lost in the thread: do you intend to continue to wear and use 24/7 if in a few months the inflammation has gone down and some control returns?

Ah, perfect, well now we can start our experiment and compare!

Oh sorry, I must have missed that question.  If I miss any other questions from anybody please re-ask.  No, I don't think I would keep wearing 24/7.  If my continence comes back I will probably just quit wearing diapers.  I wouldn't see the point after that.

[Reddy]

I do really hope there's much more to this procedure than a TURP plus TUIBN/TURBN.  I am still hoping and optimistic that this makes me completely, irreversibly, hopelessly incontinent.

It is SO hard to wait.  Feb 10th feels like forever away.  I really need to find some way to distract myself.  I'll go crazy just waiting for this.

[Babypants]

What kind of incontinence do you wish to experience?

Stress?  Functional?  Urge?  Overflow?  Mixed?

Have you spoken with the medical team down there to determine which of these categories you will be entering?  It would be tragic if you wanted X, but came out of this in Y.  

[Reddy]

1 minute ago, Babypants said:

What kind of incontinence do you wish to experience?

Stress?  Functional?  Urge?  Overflow?  Mixed?

Have you spoken with the medical team down there to determine which of these categories you will be entering?  It would be tragic if you wanted X, but came out of this in Y.  

I want full constant dripping incontinence with zero control.  That's what it's supposed to be according to the surgeon.  The only question is how well it works, any complications, etc.

[Babypants]

3 minutes ago, Reddy said:

I want full constant dripping incontinence with zero control.

Overflow.  You are going to need to work with a skin care specialist afterwards.  In my experience, cloth diapers are a better fit for stress and urge, but the wicking action in disposables make them the better choice for overflow.  Another problem with cloth is that they make you more vulnerable to yeast infections, which are dangerous, and difficult to shake.  When you get one, you will definitely need prescription level topicals to ward it off, which means laying this all out for a urologist with a skin care nurse on his/her team.  When the moment comes, please be truthful with the physician in question.  As other have stated here, any urologist who takes a look will know very, very quickly the scale of the procedure you have had performed.  

[Reddy]

7 hours ago, Babypants said:

Overflow.  You are going to need to work with a skin care specialist afterwards.  In my experience, cloth diapers are a better fit for stress and urge, but the wicking action in disposables make them the better choice for overflow.  Another problem with cloth is that they make you more vulnerable to yeast infections, which are dangerous, and difficult to shake.  When you get one, you will definitely need prescription level topicals to ward it off, which means laying this all out for a urologist with a skin care nurse on his/her team.  When the moment comes, please be truthful with the physician in question.  As other have stated here, any urologist who takes a look will know very, very quickly the scale of the procedure you have had performed.  

I appreciate the input.  I hadn't given much thought to skin health and real infections.  Just was hoping to use desitin.

I'm just not so sure about telling the truth.  I wasn't thinking the urologists will know what I had done, and even if they did, I didn't want to say the truth.  Maybe they can guess that my surgeon was very unskilled and caused unnecessary injury during operation.  I hope they're too busy to think any more than that about it.