Covid 19 Rant

[Elfy]

But because so many things can vary the result TOTAL deaths mean very little. It's percentage of population that is more relevent.

Sweden has a lot less people than America, it's far, far, far less dense and population centres are spread out. Yes, it has less deaths cumulatively but as a proportion of it's population it is doing significantly worse than the other Nordic countries and even the USA (hence the graph).

[AwakenEvil]

53 minutes ago, Elfy said:

But because so many things can vary the result TOTAL deaths mean very little. It's percentage of population that is more relevent.

Sweden has a lot less people than America, it's far, far, far less dense and population centres are spread out. Yes, it has less deaths cumulatively but as a proportion of it's population it is doing significantly worse than the other Nordic countries and even the USA (hence the graph).

Comparing Apples to Apples. Illinois, has about 12 million people, and Sweden has 10 million people. Illinois is 57k sq miles meanwhile Sweden is 157k sq miles. Both hoovering around 4k dead. Your point is missed. Illinois like California is completely locked down like Italy

 

[babykeiff]

7 hours ago, AwakenEvil said:

Comparing Apples to Apples. Illinois, has about 12 million people, and Sweden has 10 million people. Illinois is 57k sq miles meanwhile Sweden is 157k sq miles. Both hoovering around 4k dead. Your point is missed. Illinois like California is completely locked down like Italy

 

Since you seem not to notice how bad the USA, UK and Sweden have handled this, lets compare like for like...

 

	Population	Deaths	Percent Dead
USA	330,804,807	96,377	2.91%
Sweden	10,099,265	3,925	3.89%
UK	67,886,011	36,042	5.31%
Germany	83,783,942	8,316	0.99%
Denmark	5,792,202	561	0.97%

 

.....Germany and Denmark both has/had social distancing which most followed. Most in UK, USA and Sweden did not follow. This proves that the social distancing reduces the death count to less that 1% of the population.

You seem to want to know the figures of dead before they actually happen... and then state that your little micro area can be multiplied to work out what will happen in the world. In Sweden, the country although did not employ total 'lock down' measures, the country is in winter months, and most people are in isolation already. USA and UK, both controlled by idiots, allowed the fools out to protest. Germany and Denmark did not protest.

[Elfy]

Very few people here have protested lockdown. Just the usual oddballs who spend most of their time ranting about lizard people. Our problem has been incompetent leadership for the most part.

[babykeiff]

1 hour ago, Elfy said:

Very few people here have protested lockdown. Just the usual oddballs who spend most of their time ranting about lizard people. Our problem has been incompetent leadership for the most part.

Then how come 5.31% of your population died from this? I know of incompetent leadership, and grant you that Johnston is one of the worst, but that still doesn't stop citizens employing self perservation.

In Ireland, the figures are just as bad, but 62% of the Irish figures are from private nursing homes, and that is the incompetence of our healt service / nursing homes

	Population	Care Home Deaths	Hospital Deaths	TTL Deaths	% Care Home Deaths	% Hospital Deaths	% TTL Deaths
UK	67,886,011	not reported	36,042	36,042	not reported	5.31%	5.31%
Ireland	4,937,786	1,117	487	1,604	2.26%	0.99%	3.25%
Germany	83,783,942	3,492	4,824	8,316	0.42%	0.58%	0.99%
Denmark	5,792,202	5	556	561	0.0086%	0.9599%	0.97%

The highlighted figures in this table show what the max death could have been if government had done its job here in Ireland. Denmark did its job. In Ireland, 62% of who died, 2.26% of our population, 1,117 were in privately owned nursing and care homes. Germany slipped up as up to half those who died there, 0.42% of population, 3,492 were in nursing and care homes. The same group of owners own both the nursing and care homes in Ireland and Germany. I suspect that they also own a group of UK and US nursing and care homes, yet neither figures have been reported. From my own searches, 73,180 people have died in UK nursing homes since January 2020.

Source: Guardian Newspaper - dubious. A lot of their articles are estimated

Therefore, I suspect the UK figures are:-

	Population	Care Home Deaths	Hospital Deaths	TTL Deaths	% Care Home Deaths	% Hospital Deaths	% TTL Deaths
UK	67,886,011	73,180	36,042	109,222	10.78%	5.31%	16.09%

Considering Johnston and others in UK government, I believe these figures for UK to be more accurate that what is published.

USA would have similar ratios.

[AwakenEvil]

10 hours ago, babykeiff said:

Since you seem not to notice how bad the USA, UK and Sweden have handled this, lets compare like for like...

 

	Population	Deaths	Percent Dead
USA	330,804,807	96,377	2.91%
Sweden	10,099,265	3,925	3.89%
UK	67,886,011	36,042	5.31%
Germany	83,783,942	8,316	0.99%
Denmark	5,792,202	561	0.97%

 

.....Germany and Denmark both has/had social distancing which most followed. Most in UK, USA and Sweden did not follow. This proves that the social distancing reduces the death count to less that 1% of the population.

You seem to want to know the figures of dead before they actually happen... and then state that your little micro area can be multiplied to work out what will happen in the world. In Sweden, the country although did not employ total 'lock down' measures, the country is in winter months, and most people are in isolation already. USA and UK, both controlled by idiots, allowed the fools out to protest. Germany and Denmark did not protest.

You would need 11million people to be dead in the United States for this to be at 3%!

[DL-Boy]

3 hours ago, AwakenEvil said:

You would need 11million people to be dead in the United States for this to be at 3%!

I see a decimal place problem in the table @babykeiff posted.

With 330.8M population, if the 96.3K deaths is correct, that wouldn't be 2.91% but rather 0.0291%  That's based on the two other fields - "Population" and "Deaths".

Assuming the deaths and population amounts are accurate in the chart, the equation: 96,377 / 330,804,807 actually comes up a 2.9134099[...] e-4 (Scientific Notation: minus 4 decimals).  That would be a numeric value of 0.00029134099 or a percentage of 0.029134099%

[AwakenEvil]

3 hours ago, DL-Boy said:

I see a decimal place problem in the table @babykeiff posted.

With 330.8M population, if the 96.3K deaths is correct, that wouldn't be 2.91% but rather 0.0291%  That's based on the two other fields - "Population" and "Deaths".

Assuming the deaths and population amounts are accurate in the chart, the equation: 96,377 / 330,804,807 actually comes up a 2.9134099[...] e-4 (Scientific Notation: minus 4 decimals).  That would be a numeric value of 0.00029134099 or a percentage of 0.029134099%

His biggest issue is that we dont have a number of how many people are walking around showing no symptoms, thus we don't know how many ACTUAL cases of infections. His math is skewed to show an agenda talking point. Lets be real for a moment if we had a virus that killed 11 million Americans or 3% of the population we would have panic and chaos. All this nonsense that he spouts is the REAL reason why we are now seeing a spike unrelated deaths because the MEDIA and Google/Twitter/Facebook/Instagram blue checks are telling everyone that COVID will KILL you if you go outside. Our healthcare providers, Actual DOCTORS working the front line, and scientist all come out and have said this pandemic is asinine and when they do they get shutdown by the named Internet Lords above. Hell you even had governors (JB Pretzker - Look it up) trying to pass laws that basically made it Illegal to debate Covid-19 pandemic unless you spouted their agenda. The REAL truth is one highly respected Doctor in the New York area stated in March that likely 40% to 45% of New York City is likely in contact and infected with Covid-19 and showing NO SYMPTOMS. Thus BabyKeiff post at this point have been nothing but nonsense as NYC has a population of 9million almost and a surrounding population of 4million within a stones distince in the surround burbs and metro area... Even if its 40% plus infected that's 5Million people with 16k dead, and confirmed 200k people... He is nothing more than a useful idiot to continue the fear mongering and scar tactics.

[babykeiff]

40 minutes ago, AwakenEvil said:

He is nothing more than a useful idiot to continue the fear mongering and scar tactics.

I'd rather be an alive useful idiot with an error in maths, than to be you, correct and dead.

What you are missing is the difference in deaths from CoViD19 in USA to Denmark!  The difference shows that the distancing works at reducing the transmission rate and also the numbers dead. You are being told from numerous sources how to survive, how to mitigate your risk, and you still insist that this does not matter.

Here is the corrected table. It still does not hide the fact that the death rate is higher in USA, Sweden, UK than Germany and Denmark.

	Population	Deaths	Percent Dead
USA	330,804,807	96,377	0.0291341
Sweden	10,099,265	3,925	0.0388642
UK	67,886,011	36,042	0.0541416
Germany	83,783,942	8,316	0.0099255
Denmark	5,792,202	561	0.0096854

 

 

[AwakenEvil]

11 minutes ago, babykeiff said:

I'd rather be an alive useful idiot with an error in maths, than to be you, correct and dead.

What you are missing is the difference in deaths from CoViD19 in USA to Denmark!  The difference shows that the distancing works at reducing the transmission rate and also the numbers dead. You are being told from numerous sources how to survive, how to mitigate your risk, and you still insist that this does not matter.

Seems like my math works out and I am not DEAD. You are more likely to die from heart disease or obesity than Covid-19 yet we aren't rushing to shutdown McDonald's and local smoke shop. And those sources all agree that there are steps you likely already taking such as washing your hands, not going out when showing symptoms of illnesses. These things are not being preached enough but you here the whole "Stay Home Stay Safe" mantra to the point that Doctors are starting to notice a spike in patients not coming into doctors offices for fear of getting this virus and killing them which in turn does kill them. That's the issue here.

 

[FlyLikeAnEagle]

10 hours ago, AwakenEvil said:

Seems like my math works out and I am not DEAD. You are more likely to die from heart disease or obesity than Covid-19 yet we aren't rushing to shutdown McDonald's and local smoke shop. And those sources all agree that there are steps you likely already taking such as washing your hands, not going out when showing symptoms of illnesses. These things are not being preached enough but you here the whole "Stay Home Stay Safe" mantra to the point that Doctors are starting to notice a spike in patients not coming into doctors offices for fear of getting this virus and killing them which in turn does kill them. That's the issue here.

 

I agree the whole thing is being over hyped! We should be more concerned with starvation. Food is rotting and farmers are starting to kill their cattle. The stay at home order should be voluntary. If you do not want to take a risk, your welcome to stay home but don't force others healthy people to stay at home when they have kids and bills to pay. They need to pay their bills and especially their rent or they will land up homeless. Some people actually have to live in the REAL world not fantasy land! I'm not sure how people forgot these basic needs. It's also ridiculous people are being called republicans if they want to go back to work. That not even true, both sides of the political spectrum need to pay their bills. The country needs to reopen to prevent anymore damage to our economy and food supply in my opinion!

[Elfy]

What always gets me about the shouty open up types is they point to the death figures and say "See! It's not that bad!" meanwhile seemingly ignoring that the numbers are where they are precisely BECAUSE of the very measures they are protesting against.

You guys in America have 98,000 covid deaths and are still acting like this is just a conspiracy to take rights away or that it's overhyped for some reason. Who has anything to gain from the idea that it's overhyped? Fear sells, I get that, but the economic ramifications are going to affect everyone. Arguing that you need to open up saves the economy is flat out wrong and also extremely callous and cold hearted. I'm very grateful I have the morals to value human lives over the bottom line.

Also... It's a freakin' GLOBAL PANDEMIC. It cannot be overhyped, nothing of this scale has been for 100 years and yet it's still compared by people with no sense of perspective to a flu.

People are hurting from the lockdown but people would be hurting a hell of a lot more without it. I get the feeling that some people who are unaffected or just inconvenienced are incapable of understanding that their situation doesn't apply to everyone.

[Dubious]

What lockdown? ?

Everything is open in Norway, with restrictions on how many people can be at same place.

[rusty pins]

I believe this is the bottom line.  This is a world wide pandemic that has killed more people than any regular seasonal illness like the flu.  Those who haven't died have spent weeks in the hospitals on respirators fighting for their lives.  Stay at home and social distancing have been proven to slow the spread of this virus.  In today's news, two stylists tested positive for Covid-19 and exposed 140 customers.  In just a few short months the Corona Virus has killed more Americans than the Vietnam war, Gulf war, Afghanistan and Iraq wars combined.  https://fortune.com/2020/05/15/coronavirus-deaths-us-covid-19-death-rate-covid-19-more-than-korean-vietnam-gulf-afghanistan-iraq-wars-combined/  And people have the balls to say it's made up political hype and other stupid things.  Every life is important to someone!  The frivilous talk about the percentage of people who have died from this is disturbing.  It seems many people have grown callous about human life.  Rather than arguing over the percentage of people who have died from this in the past 4 months, have some sympathy and compassion for all the people who had been living a normal happy life with their family, caught this virus and died!  But for the spread of this virus, they would be alive today  enjoying happy times with their family.  Rather than complaining the numbers of the dead are not high, be proactive in helping to bring those numbers down!  Wear your friggin mask when among people and social distance!  The life you may be saving might not be important to you and just another statistic, but it is very important to the 7 year old girl who lost her mother or father because someone was irresponsible.

[MinnesotaWriter]

Today, the death toll in the U.S will hit 100,000. I think it is ironic that this is happening on Memorial Day of all days. In three months, by the end of August, it's not unreasonable that those numbers could have doubled, based on the models that have done the best job so far with projecting the pandemic. And the truth is, the deaths from the pandemic are likely being under-counted, since we didn't have nearly enough testing early on.

200,000 dead by August. And that is with everything we've done so far. Imagine if we hadn't acted, if we'd all just gone about our lives like normal. Is 500,000 dead OK? What about 1,000,000? The challenge with a pandemic is always this. It's nearly impossible to quantify how many lives were saved, but given how bad is had been with our best efforts, I think we can fairly say that to not have shutdown like we did, we would have gotten hit extremely hard. 

For me, I've been lucky. I can work from home, and I've not lost my job (It's an essential industry). I've gotten a 10 percent pay cut, but I do stock trading and taking advantage of the swings in the market more than made up for that. I'm an introvert as well. Staying at home and being forced to play video games isn't something I can complain about.

For people who are out of work, have burned through their savings, and don't have the money to pay for what they need (food, housing, etc...) the threat of not being able to work can seem greater than the threat of COVID-19. And it is hard to tell someone who has gotten screwed over financially that they still can't go to work. 

But the way to fix that isn't to have everyone go out an work, causing the pandemic to have a massive second wave. The way to fix that is for the government to increase the level of aid it is giving directly to people who have been impacted. Screw the billions of dollars giving out to the wealthy and the businesses who don't need it. The U.S. should be more focused on both expanding unemployment assistance and making it easier to get that assistance (easier in the sense that many states have outdated systems that have made it hard to handle the increased requests for unemployment benefits.)

----
TLDR: Lots of people have died. But the shutdown was needed cause that number would have been much worse without it. It sucks to not be able to work, but the best solution is for the government to actually focus on helping the people out of work rather than handing out billions to company's that don't need it.
 

[Elfy]

11 hours ago, MinnesotaWriter said:

TLDR: Lots of people have died. But the shutdown was needed cause that number would have been much worse without it. It sucks to not be able to work, but the best solution is for the government to actually focus on helping the people out of work rather than handing out billions to company's that don't need it.

I think that's key.

It isn't an either/or situation. You can keep the lockdown AND help the people/businesses who need it. Most of us here live in countries that could quite easily help people who are suffering under lockdown. To not do so is a political decision.

[babykeiff]

People are trying to state that 'it is not that bad' and 'it is only government hype' etc...

FACTS:

5,644,562 people, who were happily going on with their lives, working, eating, sleeping, raising their families, that is 1 in every 1,400 people, have got a disease that has put them through hell trying to fight this off. They still have not beaten this. Most of them have reduced lung functionality and an approx 12 - 18 month life span remaining due to complications from this virus.

352,789 of these are already dead.

1,058,367 families (the family of the dead plus the parents families 3x) morning the loss of a loved one.

846,693 children (average 2.4 children per family) having to grow up without a parent.

THIS IS NOT OVER YET

It took only ONE person from China to spread this to Europe.

It took only ONE person from Europe to spread this to USA. 500,000 people flew into New York from Europe in March & April. 1.7 million, 3 times the amount of people that entered New York from Europe, have been infected, and although some recovered, most will not live past 2021/2022.

 

With the rate this virus spreads due to the foolish actions of people.... will there be enough people left to bury the dead?

 

 

 

 

[Dubious]

34 minutes ago, babykeiff said:

It took only ONE person from Europe to spread this to USA.

You sure he came from Europe?
Did USA get the virus after Europe?

[fillemup]

On 5/23/2020 at 7:11 PM, babykeiff said:

Since you seem not to notice how bad the USA, UK and Sweden have handled this, lets compare like for like...

 

	Population	Deaths	Percent Dead
USA	330,804,807	96,377	2.91%
Sweden	10,099,265	3,925	3.89%
UK	67,886,011	36,042	5.31%
Germany	83,783,942	8,316	0.99%
Denmark	5,792,202	561	0.97%

 

.....Germany and Denmark both has/had social distancing which most followed. Most in UK, USA and Sweden did not follow. This proves that the social distancing reduces the death count to less that 1% of the population.

You seem to want to know the figures of dead before they actually happen... and then state that your little micro area can be multiplied to work out what will happen in the world. In Sweden, the country although did not employ total 'lock down' measures, the country is in winter months, and most people are in isolation already. USA and UK, both controlled by idiots, allowed the fools out to protest. Germany and Denmark did not protest.

Your death toll percentages are off by a ton. The decimal point actually goes 4 digits to the left. The correct percentage  death toll in the U.S. is 0.000291% dead from the virus.

[AwakenEvil]

1 hour ago, fillemup said:

Your death toll percentages are off by a ton. The decimal point actually goes 4 digits to the left. The correct percentage  death toll in the U.S. is 0.000291% dead from the virus.

That guys a joke. CDC Just released new numbers .26% fatality rate. My home state tested more than 160k people and only 16,400 positive cases. This is over blown

[DL-Boy]

9 minutes ago, AwakenEvil said:

That guys a joke. CDC Just released new numbers .26% survival rate. My home state tested more than 160k people and only 16,400 positive cases. This is over blown

Dude, if there was a 0.26% survival rate - I'd be waiting to die...  I think you meant 0.26% death rate (or just over one quarter of one percent).  I believe that would mean a 99.74% survival/non-infected rate per capita at this point, if that number is correct.

[fillemup]

10 minutes ago, AwakenEvil said:

That guys a joke. CDC Just released new numbers .26% survival rate. My home state tested more than 160k people and only 16,400 positive cases. This is over blown

They said just under 100,000 dead. A population of 330 million in the U.S would mean 330,000,000 x .000291 = approximately 96,000 dead. This is very basic math which you clearly do not understand.

[AwakenEvil]

7 minutes ago, DL-Boy said:

Dude, if there was a 0.26% survival rate - I'd be waiting to die...  I think you meant 0.26% death rate (or just over one quarter of one percent).  I believe that would mean a 99.74% survival/non-infected rate per capita at this point, if that number is correct.

I re-edited it. Remember when the CDC and WHO said if we lock down we could contain this to around 1.5 million Americans dead? Guess that model was off by a lot. Case studies now are starting to show Georgia and Florida are seeing a drop in cases as they've been open for weeks now.

7 minutes ago, fillemup said:

They said just under 100,000 dead. A population of 330 million in the U.S would mean 330,000,000 x .000291 = approximately 96,000 dead. This is very basic math which you clearly do not understand.

My bad Brain fart. Meant fatality rate

[fillemup]

11 minutes ago, DL-Boy said:

Dude, if there was a 0.26% survival rate - I'd be waiting to die...  I think you meant 0.26% death rate (or just over one quarter of one percent).  I believe that would mean a 99.74% survival/non-infected rate per capita at this point, if that number is correct.

Under your math equation, .26 % would mean there are currently 858,000 dead from the virus. The news just said we are right around 100 thousand dead from the virus.

[WetDad]

One thing I think you are all not understanding- the fatality rate is based on the number who have died of CV19 over the number who have contracted CV19. It has nothing to do with the total population.