Covid 19 Rant

[babykeiff]

54 minutes ago, AwakenEvil said:

You seem pretty frightened of a virus that has a .02% of killing you. The facts are coming out more and more that this is all over blown. Sweden data already has proven heard mentality worked. Continue to give government your freedoms.

• Stating that I am cautious is true. Only a fool / those who do not value life is not.
• Stating that I am frightened of anything, is false. I see fear as something to be destroyed.
• Stating that I am aware of certain dangers in this world is true. That is what one obtains from a decent education.
• Assuming that I am anything is a mistake on your part, which you seem to be continually doing. I don't fit into any box / typecast / group for you or anyone else. I am unique.
• Stating that I have given my freedoms to anyone lead me to believe either you do not know what freedom is, or you are discriminatory.

[DiaperedJoe]

1 hour ago, AwakenEvil said:

Continue to give government your freedoms.

They aren't taking away any of your freedoms.

Everything they are doing is fully in line with existing law and court precedent.

When it comes to public health, you don't have anywhere NEAR as much freedom as you think you do, and you never really did. 

For example:

Compagnie Francaise de Navigation a Vapeur v. Louisiana Board of Health, 186 U.S. 380 (1902), the underlying SCOTUS precedent on the issue, holds that states have sweeping police powers to protect Public Health and this extends to even involuntary quarantines, and said measures do not unconstitutionally infringe on any civil rights, that people have a collective right to live, and the State has broad powers to protect the rights of others to live at the cost of temporary curtailment of individual freedoms.

Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11 (1905), the Supreme Court ruled that it's perfectly constitutional to force individuals to be vaccinated, and that the police powers of the State to protect public health are more important than individual liberty to choose to not be vaccinated.  Every time some parent chooses not to vaccinate their child, that's a privilege the state is allowing them, not a right they have.  They legally have no right to deny vaccinating their children, because the state has constitutional authority to compel it.

Our courts have held, for well over a century, that when it comes to public health, the collective right of others to live is more important than your personal freedoms, and that State Governments have sweeping police powers to protect people's lives in that regard.

It hasn't come up much in the last few decades because we've had vaccines for the sorts of diseases that used to require those measures, and the vaccination rate has been high enough to ensure herd immunity.  The coronavirus pandemic is the first time in a number of decades we've had the sort of widespread outbreak of a deadly disease that's warranted the sorts of quarantines, shutdowns and emergency measures that were fairly routine a century or more ago.

The freedoms you've been enjoying for your whole life in this regard have been built on vaccines developed before you were born, and been (legally speaking) quietly built on the underlying assumption that those vaccines would protect us from those sorts of plagues.

[AwakenEvil]

7 minutes ago, DiaperedJoe said:

They aren't taking away any of your freedoms.

Everything they are doing is fully in line with existing law and court precedent.

When it comes to public health, you don't have anywhere NEAR as much freedom as you think you do, and you never really did. 

For example:

Compagnie Francaise de Navigation a Vapeur v. Louisiana Board of Health, 186 U.S. 380 (1902), the underlying SCOTUS precedent on the issue, holds that states have sweeping police powers to protect Public Health and this extends to even involuntary quarantines, and said measures do not unconstitutionally infringe on any civil rights, that people have a collective right to live, and the State has broad powers to protect the rights of others to live at the cost of temporary curtailment of individual freedoms.

Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11 (1905), the Supreme Court ruled that it's perfectly constitutional to force individuals to be vaccinated, and that the police powers of the State to protect public health are more important than individual liberty to choose to not be vaccinated.  Every time some parent chooses not to vaccinate their child, that's a privilege the state is allowing them, not a right they have.  They legally have no right to deny vaccinating their children, because the state has constitutional authority to compel it.

Our courts have held, for well over a century, that when it comes to public health, the collective right of others to live is more important than your personal freedoms, and that State Governments have sweeping police powers to protect people's lives in that regard.

It hasn't come up much in the last few decades because we've had vaccines for the sorts of diseases that used to require those measures, and the vaccination rate has been high enough to ensure herd immunity.  The coronavirus pandemic is the first time in a number of decades we've had the sort of widespread outbreak of a deadly disease that's warranted the sorts of quarantines, shutdowns and emergency measures that were fairly routine a century or more ago.

The freedoms you've been enjoying for your whole life in this regard have been built on vaccines developed before you were born, and been (legally speaking) quietly built on the underlying assumption that those vaccines would protect us from those sorts of plagues.

Fining someone for refusing to wear a mask isnt freedom. Arresting a salon owner for feeding her family isnt freedom.

[babykeiff]

9 minutes ago, AwakenEvil said:

Fining someone for refusing to wear a mask isnt freedom. Arresting a salon owner for feeding her family isnt freedom.

Stop talking about 'freedom', something you have no idea of what it is.

[AwakenEvil]

29 minutes ago, babykeiff said:

• Stating that I am cautious is true. Only a fool / those who do not value life is not.
• Stating that I am frightened of anything, is false. I see fear as something to be destroyed.
• Stating that I am aware of certain dangers in this world is true. That is what one obtains from a decent education.
• Assuming that I am anything is a mistake on your part, which you seem to be continually doing. I don't fit into any box / typecast / group for you or anyone else. I am unique.
• Stating that I have given my freedoms to anyone lead me to believe either you do not know what freedom is, or you are discriminatory.

81K Out of 330Million Americans. That proves my point. If this was killing millions of Americans I would have something different to say. The world population is over 8 Billion and the death toll is less than 260k today. This is over blown. We have seen far worse pandemics in our past in our life times.

8 minutes ago, babykeiff said:

Stop talking about 'freedom', something you have no idea of what it is.

Seems I have a better understanding than you. You continue to give up your freedoms. Hope you dont need an elective surgery anytime soon.

[babykeiff]

26 minutes ago, AwakenEvil said:

Seems I have a better understanding than you. You continue to give up your freedoms. Hope you dont need an elective surgery anytime soon.

No mater which country in the world you reside, you are not free. No one person in the world is. Freedom does not exist. It is a lie told to the stupid by someone seeking power.

For one person to enjoy freedom, it infringes on the freedoms of another which is discrimination. As a result, freedom does not and can not exist.

[DiaperedJoe]

31 minutes ago, AwakenEvil said:

Fining someone for refusing to wear a mask isnt freedom. Arresting a salon owner for feeding her family isnt freedom.

It's about the freedom of others to live safely and healthily. 

The collective right of others to live, their freedom to be free of disease and healthy, outweighs your temporary inconvenience at having to wear a mask or being unable to get a haircut for a while, and that's a well established legal principle in the US (per the above Supreme Court decisions).

Do you get offended at health departments saying you have to wear a shirt and shoes to receive service in a store?  Have you ever protested "No Shirt, No Shoes, no Service"?  This is the exact same thing, wear something when in public out of public health concerns.  

There's nothing wrong with arresting a salon owner for illegally operating her business in violation of local health and safety regulations.  You don't have a right to operate a business whenever, wherever, however you want, no matter your excuse.  There's a reason we issue business licenses, it's not a right.  That salon owner was told she was breaking the law, she persisted, she was arrested for breaking the law and jailed for it.  She knowingly breached a law meant to protect public health and safety. 

A "Necessity Defense" in criminal law, that it was needed to break the law to prevent a greater harm from happening, is a high burden to meet. . .and trying to say the ONLY way she could feed her family was to re-open her salon (instead of using her stimulus money, food banks, credit cards, etc.) is going to be laughed out of court by just about any Judge.  The Judge in that case even offered to let her walk, if she'd just apologize and close her salon. . .but she refused, knowing it would get her arrested (and her salon closed anyway).  She was attention whoring, not trying to feed her family.

36 minutes ago, AwakenEvil said:

Seems I have a better understanding than you. You continue to give up your freedoms. Hope you dont need an elective surgery anytime soon.

By definition, nobody ever needs elective surgery.  That's why it's called elective.

Also, legally speaking, you have no idea what freedom is. 

I've repeatedly pointed out case law on the issue, the actual binding court rulings in the United States on the subject, that establish what your actual "freedom" is on the subject, and you ignore it.

You are making up some random definition in your head of "freedom" and trying to inflict it on the world and screaming about being oppressed when the world isn't bending to your personal misconception of your civil rights.

[babykeiff]

2 hours ago, DiaperedJoe said:

It's about the freedom of others to live safely and healthily. 

The collective right of others to live, their freedom to be free of disease and healthy, outweighs your temporary inconvenience at having to wear a mask or being unable to get a haircut for a while, and that's a well established legal principle in the US (per the above Supreme Court decisions).

Do you get offended at health departments saying you have to wear a shirt and shoes to receive service in a store?  Have you ever protested "No Shirt, No Shoes, no Service"?  This is the exact same thing, wear something when in public out of public health concerns.  

There's nothing wrong with arresting a salon owner for illegally operating her business in violation of local health and safety regulations.  You don't have a right to operate a business whenever, wherever, however you want, no matter your excuse.  There's a reason we issue business licenses, it's not a right.  That salon owner was told she was breaking the law, she persisted, she was arrested for breaking the law and jailed for it.  She knowingly breached a law meant to protect public health and safety. 

A "Necessity Defense" in criminal law, that it was needed to break the law to prevent a greater harm from happening, is a high burden to meet. . .and trying to say the ONLY way she could feed her family was to re-open her salon (instead of using her stimulus money, food banks, credit cards, etc.) is going to be laughed out of court by just about any Judge.  The Judge in that case even offered to let her walk, if she'd just apologize and close her salon. . .but she refused, knowing it would get her arrested (and her salon closed anyway).  She was attention whoring, not trying to feed her family.

By definition, nobody ever needs elective surgery.  That's why it's called elective.

Also, legally speaking, you have no idea what freedom is. 

I've repeatedly pointed out case law on the issue, the actual binding court rulings in the United States on the subject, that establish what your actual "freedom" is on the subject, and you ignore it.

You are making up some random definition in your head of "freedom" and trying to inflict it on the world and screaming about being oppressed when the world isn't bending to your personal misconception of your civil rights.

Most of what you state I fully agree with, but the concept of 'freedom' does not exist. In any governing society, citizens forgo their 'freedom' for equality. The only way to achieve 'freedom' is to relocate on a different planet. One can achieve the illusion of freedom on their own property, but in fact, it is not freedom. It is them complying with the laws of the country ensuring that their actions do not encroach on the choices of another.

The actions of the hairdresser is/was encroaching on the free choices of others. Therefore, her actions was placing her choices above the choices of those around her, which is discrimination. The Judge offering her the choice to apologize is slightly above his station. The Judge is charged with upholding the law of the land in the best interest of all concerned, and offering her 'a way out' is waiving the law in favor of the accused. That is discriminating against all that do uphold the law. I am not a legal expert, and from your post, you seem to be a little more aware than I, of the implementation of the law. Here, in Ireland, and prob similar in the US, we have implemented temporary law concerning the movement and available actions of Irish citizens during this pandemic. Simply, the action is, if caught over 2km (now extended to 5km) from ones place of residence without a listed reason and/or running a business which is not listed as essential (which is also identified in legislation), the Garda (Irish Police) have the power to arrest, jail for a period of 6 months, and/or impose fines to the value of €2,000. This can be challenged in a court, but not until time served and not until the pandemic is released. As a result, if the saloon owner was caught running her business in Ireland, she would have been arrested, and placed in jail for the 6 months and/or fined €2,000 as would each and every one of her customers and/or staff. The required use of face masks is not in force in Ireland at the moment as all but the business that are deemed essential (health-care / pharmacy / food retail / food production etc) are closed. The only people that leave their homes are those that need to shop for food / medicine / attend  health care / personal exercise (walking, running) within 5k and these are distancing themselves (3m / 6ft) from everyone else including indoors / outdoors. Even our Churches / places of worship are closed as they are deemed non-essential.

As of this post, there are 1,467 Irish citizens dead, most cremated at this stage. No funeral of any kind has been held for any of these people. To us Irish, that is worse than the lock-down.

Yes, when the number of new cases reach zero, Ireland will begin to reopen its business'. Until then, the only business that are operating are those who are deemed essential and those business' who the staff can work from home.

Do the Irish think that their freedom has been curtailed - to some extent, yes, but most of us are smart enough to understand that a few weeks / months isolation is a cheap price to pay so we all can enjoy life. Irish are mainly social, and this isolation has forced us to use other ways to stay in touch with our family / friends. I think that the world is learning the value of family, and the costs they have previously paid by placing job/career above family.

Ireland knows, as most of the world knows, of the interdependence one country has on each other. When the virus is gone in Ireland, it might not be gone worldwide. In that case, we will have to wait until it is gone in those countries before we open our borders to visitors from that country. Simply, if you try to come to Ireland now / during the pandemic, be prepared for a six month stay in our jails and a fine of €2,000. Following that, you will be put back on an aircraft, and returned to your own country... sorry everyone, we are not accepting visitors, but we will accept prisoners for the period of 6 months. I have been told that agreement exists between our Foreign Minister and each country that the cost of housing a non-Irish visitor for 6 months, plus the costs to fly them back (which due to most aircraft flying empty will be the full cost of that flight) will be charged to the visitor by their own country. I have not checked that to be true, nor do I wish to.

So, while the virus is 'in force' stay at home. Our welcome mat is gone.  

[babykeiff]

@AwakenEvil

If you want your freedom, set up your own property as a sovereign state. Then build a wall surrounding it. Trump will do it for you, but he will charge you for it. He will also charge you for all services provided to you - electricity, heat, water, and the handling of your waste. I don't know how you will pay for all these services, as it is not the responsibility of a surrounding country to support its neighbor. The money that you have in any bank account does not belong to you... it is the legal tender of the surrounding country, and for you to import it into your country, you will need to export it from your surround country - this, most countries do not let.

At that stage, you can do what you want within the borders of your own country. You can't leave, as that is you invading your surrounding country, which will get you shot, and your country will be attacked and destroyed.

 

3 hours ago, AwakenEvil said:

Fining someone for refusing to wear a mask isnt freedom. Arresting a salon owner for feeding her family isnt freedom.

Yes, you are correct in that fining someone / jailing someone for not complying with the law is not freedom. Freedom does NOT exist except in the deranged minds of the fools that believe the lie that has been sold to them.

[rusty pins]

Some people try and do just that!  They feel they don't have to live by any constitutional law that they don't agree with.  FINE!   Then move to some other country like Russia or Cuba and see if your rights are any better!  Some people hole up in remote areas of their state with their guns and survival foods and equipment, break the laws and shoot at anyone who comes near them.  Those few radicals feel they have the right to do as they please and ignore the constitution.  Hey, I may not have voted for this law or that politician, but the majority rules and the rest have to abide until they change things legally with new laws and government officials.  They just don't have the right to break the laws because they don't agree with them.  Already we are seeing a resurgence of the Covid-19 from countries and even states where they have started to reopen things up.  I know people are in desperate situations being out of work and trying to feed their family.  It is a bad situation.  You can't say the average Joe knows more about the pandemic than all the experts trained in the field, especially when such average Joe's are carrying guns and confederate flags into the state capital while having their swastika tattoos clearly visible on their arms.  Can we all say, "Heil Hitler"?  SURE!  Will I believe the gun toting confederate flag waving nazis before believing Anthony Fauci, Jerome Adams, Debora Brix, Mario Cuomo and the hundreds of thousands of front line doctors who deal with Covid-19 patients and deaths every day?  If I had my way in Michigan, anyone going into a grocery store or other store without following the current law legally initiated by our Governor to help keep us safe and prevent more spreading of Covid-19 by not wearing the required mask should be turned away or issued a ticket!  It's so bad that one security officer in Michigan was shot dead on the spot by a person for telling them they must wear a mask before being allowed in the store.  That is the mentality of the people I'm speaking about here!  Protesting with guns, confederate flags and their nazi swastikas.  We would rather listen to those radical idiots who are quick to shoot an innocent security guard at a grocery store who is just upholding the law than the experts trying to keep us safe.  Look at Korea where they had just one infected person infect 80 more people.  And some here claim the numbers are wrong, inflated and the percentage is way low.  DUH!  Frigging idiots!  Even the aids to President Trump and Mike Pence are testing positive for Covid-19.  People close to the president and vice president are supposed to be some of the most tested and checked people there are to keep these leaders of the free world safe, yet it seems more and more each day white house staff are contracting Covid-19.  Oh, but there's nothing to worry about!  In 3 months here in the United States we end up being the country in the whole world with the largest number of Covid-19 cases.  Yet some people still say it's not a big deal!  Some still have the nerve to compare it with the flu!  Show me one thing in recent history that spreads as fast or kills as many people in this short of time other than Covid-19.  Look at the plague, yellow feavor, other pandemics centuries ago that wiped out whole populations.  Covid-19 could be just as bad, especially if some are so arrogant as to just go about their lives, ignore the safety regulations put in place by the experts in disease and pandemics and cause it to keep spreading in spite of the statistics showing the stay at home and masks are working.

[babykeiff]

20 minutes ago, rusty pins said:

Some people try and do just that!  They feel they don't have to live by any constitutional law that they don't agree with.  FINE!   Then move to some other country like Russia or Cuba and see if your rights are any better!  Some people hole up in remote areas of their state with their guns and survival foods and equipment, break the laws and shoot at anyone who comes near them.  Those few radicals feel they have the right to do as they please and ignore the constitution.  Hey, I may not have voted for this law or that politician, but the majority rules and the rest have to abide until they change things legally with new laws and government officials.  They just don't have the right to break the laws because they don't agree with them.  Already we are seeing a resurgence of the Covid-19 from countries and even states where they have started to reopen things up.  I know people are in desperate situations being out of work and trying to feed their family.  It is a bad situation.  You can't say the average Joe knows more about the pandemic than all the experts trained in the field, especially when such average Joe's are carrying guns and confederate flags into the state capital while having their swastika tattoos clearly visible on their arms.  Can we all say, "Heil Hitler"?  SURE!  Will I believe the gun toting confederate flag waving nazis before believing Anthony Fauci, Jerome Adams, Debora Brix, Mario Cuomo and the hundreds of thousands of front line doctors who deal with Covid-19 patients and deaths every day?  If I had my way in Michigan, anyone going into a grocery store or other store without following the current law legally initiated by our Governor to help keep us safe and prevent more spreading of Covid-19 by not wearing the required mask should be turned away or issued a ticket!  It's so bad that one security officer in Michigan was shot dead on the spot by a person for telling them they must wear a mask before being allowed in the store.  That is the mentality of the people I'm speaking about here!  Protesting with guns, confederate flags and their nazi swastikas.  We would rather listen to those radical idiots who are quick to shoot an innocent security guard at a grocery store who is just upholding the law than the experts trying to keep us safe.  Look at Korea where they had just one infected person infect 80 more people.  And some here claim the numbers are wrong, inflated and the percentage is way low.  DUH!  Frigging idiots! 

Rusty pins,

Those people that choose not to wear a mask are also chosing not to protect your health are therefore, a threat to your health and safety, and the health and safety of your family. Under US law, you have a right to 'bear arms' and the right to 'defend yourselves' yes? If so, I suggest carrying a gun and simply shoot those not wearing a mask. I am not a U.S. legal expert, but is that not a case of self defense? 

[rusty pins]

13 minutes ago, babykeiff said:

Rusty pins,

Those people that choose not to wear a mask are also chosing not to protect your health are therefore, a threat to your health and safety, and the health and safety of your family. Under US law, you have a right to 'bear arms' and the right to 'defend yourselves' yes? If so, I suggest carrying a gun and simply shoot those not wearing a mask. I am not a U.S. legal expert, but is that not a case of self defense?

 

Good point, but then that would make me one of them!  Yes, those who do not wear masks in public places as required by a government order are breaking the law and endangering the lives of people around them.  Self centered idiots who are thinking only of themselves.  They would be the first one's screaming at the doctors and government when their own parent or grandparent dies of Covid-19 for not doing more to save their loved one's lives, yet they think nothing of the thousands of other people's loved ones who to them are just insignificant statistics.  They will still go about without their masks infecting those around them and protesting at the state capitol, yet it's not their fault!  It's other people's fault, especially when something happens to one of their own family!  Shooting them is not the answer as far as I'm concerned.  If they are so concerned about their lack of income and trying to have enough money to pay the rent and feed their family, hitting them with a $500 fine for violating the law and not wearing a mask in an enclosed place like a store might hit home more.  Then again, probably not!

[babykeiff]

56 minutes ago, rusty pins said:

Good point, but then that would make me one of them!  Yes, those who do not wear masks in public places as required by a government order are breaking the law and endangering the lives of people around them.  Self centered idiots who are thinking only of themselves.  They would be the first one's screaming at the doctors and government when their own parent or grandparent dies of Covid-19 for not doing more to save their loved one's lives, yet they think nothing of the thousands of other people's loved ones who to them are just insignificant statistics.  They will still go about without their masks infecting those around them and protesting at the state capitol, yet it's not their fault!  It's other people's fault, especially when something happens to one of their own family!  Shooting them is not the answer as far as I'm concerned.  If they are so concerned about their lack of income and trying to have enough money to pay the rent and feed their family, hitting them with a $500 fine for violating the law and not wearing a mask in an enclosed place like a store might hit home more.  Then again, probably not!

I see your point, and agree with most of it, but there is the issue of who will enforce it. Assigning this to Police would be putting them in harms way as they have to breach the distance rule to arrest the idiot and someone has to collect the money. Still, bullets don't have issues traveling distances, and most people do not require a used bullet returned.

Secondly, Darwin theory informs us that the most capable survive, so it is just a waiting game. If you wear a mask etc, and reduce your contact with others, it will, to an extent protect you. Those that don't are not protected. Because there is never going to be a cure, and that those infected that recover are now more likely to get reinfected, multiple infections = multiple lung reduction = higher risk or death.

I foresee that it will be left to the intelligent to cremate / bury the idiots... and that CoViD19 is just a way to increase the IQ level of the world.

[le Hollandais]

2 hours ago, babykeiff said:

Rusty pins,

Those people that choose not to wear a mask are also chosing not to protect your health are therefore, a threat to your health and safety, and the health and safety of your family. Under US law, you have a right to 'bear arms' and the right to 'defend yourselves' yes? If so, I suggest carrying a gun and simply shoot those not wearing a mask. I am not a U.S. legal expert, but is that not a case of self defense? 

One may sincerely believe such actions are legitimate self defense. In all probability the shooter would be arrested and brought to trial on charges of manslaughter at the very least, perhaps second degree murder, particularly if the victim were unarmed.

[babykeiff]

10 minutes ago, le Hollandais said:

One may sincerely believe such actions are legitimate self defense. In all probability the shooter would be arrested and brought to trial on charges of manslaughter at the very least, perhaps second degree murder, particularly if the victim were unarmed.

Yes, I agree.... the shooter probability would face trial, but the idiot might be dead. In all cases in law, one is innocent unless proven guilty. Secondly, there is a reasonable (arguable)  cause to justify the action. Thirdly, US state law have enacted restriction on the basis of health. As a result, there is reasonable believe that a person approaching the shooter is a threat.

This case would be very difficult to determine one way or the other, who is at fault legally - AND have far reaching effects in US due to 'presedence / prior determination'. As I stated, I am not a legal expert, many here are, who can discuss this from a legal perspective. What I do know about the law worldwide is that for every proof there is a case where the opposite is true, and it takes a Judge and jury to actually make the determination. In the mentioned case, I wouldn't like to be Judge and/or member of that jury.

[DL-Boy]

4 hours ago, babykeiff said:

I foresee that it will be left to the intelligent to cremate / bury the idiots... and that CoViD19 is just a way to increase the IQ level of the world.

And cull the overpopulation?  (sorry, random thought)

[rusty pins]

One more thing to consider.  Yes, when we ourselves wear a mask in a store for our protection, that may mean we are somewhat protected from the idiot who doesn't, but let's say that idiot coughs or sneezes on the groceries, such as the canned goods, boxes of cereal and the package of ground beef in the refrigerated section.  We come along with our mask and pick up one of those items.  Covid-19 can live on surfaces for up to 72 hours.  Even if we ourselves take precautions and wear our masks, that may not protect us from touching something the idiot without a mask coughed, sneezed on or touched after wiping his nose with his hand.  Personally, I not only wear a mask but also disposable latex gloves whenever I have to go into a store to buy some groceries.  I may get a few looks from some people but I'd rather be safer with both mask and gloves.  You should see the outside of those gloves when I remove them!  Dirty with who knows what just from the things I have put in my shopping cart!  There was just another incident at a 7-11 store in Indiana where the clerk was beat up because she refused to let a customer in to buy coffee because he was not wearing a mask.  https://www.kansascity.com/news/coronavirus/article242705911.html.  This happened less than 50 miles from where I live by the way. 

Shooting these people are not the answer.  Fining them may well be as long as judges enforce the fines and law enforcement with proper protection can be available to issue these fines.  Just the fact that there is not enough of an armed police presence at these stores makes these idiots feel they don't have wear their masks because no one will enforce it!  A solution might be to hire several armed security people at each store to enforce the law, big professionals and at least 2 at the entrance to turn away anyone who does not comply.  The thing is, stores will not go for the added cost of security and they also don't want to take any chance on loosing a paying customer because that person is not wearing a mask.  If all the other 90% of the customers who are wearing masks speak up and refuse to shop at that store and make it known they will go elsewhere for their groceries, then maybe store owners will get the idea it's better to lose that 10% who refuse to wear a mask than the 90% who are pissed at the people allowed in the store without one.

[babykeiff]

9 hours ago, DL-Boy said:

And cull the overpopulation?  (sorry, random thought)

I like that random though - cull the idiotic.

Create an online IQ test that if one passes, they live, if they don't they die. That might be a way to handle the arrogant idiotic, and save the price of a bullet.

Result of 2 idiots in Ireland trying to reverse gov. covid19 restrictions: “Unsubstantiated opinions, speeches, empty rhetoric and a bogus historical parallel are not a substitute for facts - case dismissed". Both are now being housed by the Irish Prison Service for the next 30 days, and in isolation for the next 14. When they are released, they will face full court costs, plus fines of €2000 each.

Edit: For those legal eagles who wish to see the full case - Waters, O’Doherty Case - Ireland  The jail, fine and court costs are being calculated and in a non-public document.

[Elfy]

I'll say it again regarding Sweden and herd immunity... They are doing substantially worse than any of the other nordic countries. There is no evidence that a herd immunity mentality helps:

[repetitivediaperwetter88]

Incase you all are wondering why people are going crazy and needing to work to feed their families, we (The US) has a very flawed Unemployment system. I lost my job on the 20th of April and applied for food stamps and UE on the 21st. I am still waiting to hear back from them as of today (May 14th). I pretty much said "F**K It!" and found work else where. I have already gotten my first paycheck from my said job and I am STILL waiting. My sister is on UE and its only $73.90 a month. thats right, a month. No one can support their family on that let alone pay bills, buy food, put gas in the car, ect. Of course there is Food stamps but how does one pay to put gas in their car to get to the store? Or pay an Uber? This right here is one of the many reasons why you see people wanting to open places up and get back to work. Just thought Id share my 2 cents. I do understand the seriousness of this virus and do take the necessary precautions necessary. We are living in very scary times.   

[babykeiff]

If you are unaware... CoViD19 possible link with kawasaki disease

The prior perception with SARS-CoV2 was that those with an underlying health condition and/or reduced lung / immune system function (the over 70s etc) were more susceptible to, and more likely to die from CoViD19. It has recently been discovered that a normally low infection rate under 5 year old disease is a lot more prevelant and is behaving similar to SARS-CoV2 not only for the under 5s, but for older children.

From a viral specialist associate of mine, his opinion, and that is without proof yet, is that the coronavirus has mutated and bonded with a virus that causes Kawasaki disease. This means that the virus not only can attack (via bonding to type 2 cells in the lungs), breathing as its primary target, it also directly attack (via directly bonding) internal organs - heart, liver etc. Tests are being carried out at the moment, but with this mutation, it changes the estimated lethality from 5% to approx 50%.

The first cases identified of this are USA. Further research is required.

 

5 hours ago, Elfy said:

I'll say it again regarding Sweden and herd immunity... They are doing substantially worse than any of the other nordic countries. There is no evidence that a herd immunity mentality helps:

Elfy, where is Ireland in this graph. Can you please add it.

[lilJester]

At work I get screened daily. One of the questions is "Do you know if you came in contact with someone that has covid" to which I always reply  "Thanks to HIPPA I HAVE NO FUCKING CLUE!"I have gotten flack from this but this is my stance and I am not going to change it. When there is a pandemic such as this happening, HIPPA can fuck off.

[FlyLikeAnEagle]

I don't know if anybody heard but Fauci did a complete 180 on his statement about shutting down the country for covid19. Now he claims the we can't shut down for covid 19 cause it's too much damage to economy! Well duh, wasn't that what people were saying a month ago? I just really can't take Fauci serious anymore changing his story so abruptly today! Very fishy in my opinion!

https://www.thestreet.com/investing/fauci-warns-closing-too-long-could-cause-irreparable-damage

[Dubious]

The virus only kills the poor anyway, in USA

[AwakenEvil]

On 5/13/2020 at 9:00 AM, rusty pins said:

Good point, but then that would make me one of them!  Yes, those who do not wear masks in public places as required by a government order are breaking the law and endangering the lives of people around them.  Self centered idiots who are thinking only of themselves.  They would be the first one's screaming at the doctors and government when their own parent or grandparent dies of Covid-19 for not doing more to save their loved one's lives, yet they think nothing of the thousands of other people's loved ones who to them are just insignificant statistics.  They will still go about without their masks infecting those around them and protesting at the state capitol, yet it's not their fault!  It's other people's fault, especially when something happens to one of their own family!  Shooting them is not the answer as far as I'm concerned.  If they are so concerned about their lack of income and trying to have enough money to pay the rent and feed their family, hitting them with a $500 fine for violating the law and not wearing a mask in an enclosed place like a store might hit home more.  Then again, probably not!

Technically speaking none of the things the governors are doing with these lock downs or mask requirements are NOT law. It is nothing more than a suggestion. To become a punishable law local state house and senate most vote them into laws so the executive branch can enforce it. Technically speaking what is happening is just more of your rights as an American being taken by a thousand cuts... You know whom didn't see this coming before it was too late... Venezuelans... They didn't see the hell they were in until the government took their rights a little at a time until they noticed they went from abundance to slavery.

On 5/14/2020 at 10:52 PM, babykeiff said:

If you are unaware... CoViD19 possible link with kawasaki disease

The prior perception with SARS-CoV2 was that those with an underlying health condition and/or reduced lung / immune system function (the over 70s etc) were more susceptible to, and more likely to die from CoViD19. It has recently been discovered that a normally low infection rate under 5 year old disease is a lot more prevelant and is behaving similar to SARS-CoV2 not only for the under 5s, but for older children.

From a viral specialist associate of mine, his opinion, and that is without proof yet, is that the coronavirus has mutated and bonded with a virus that causes Kawasaki disease. This means that the virus not only can attack (via bonding to type 2 cells in the lungs), breathing as its primary target, it also directly attack (via directly bonding) internal organs - heart, liver etc. Tests are being carried out at the moment, but with this mutation, it changes the estimated lethality from 5% to approx 50%.

The first cases identified of this are USA. Further research is required.

 

Elfy, where is Ireland in this graph. Can you please add it.

Your facts are so wrong. 90k dead in the US.  Sweden is 5k dead. How about some truth to your comments., Seriously

Just Google Covid-19 Death by Countrys and it will show you the WHO and CDC numbers.