An End To The War?

[PamperBoy]

I have two questions for Cindy Sheehan and the "peace through appeasement" people who want us out of Iraq, Afghanistan and the Middle East before the job is done.

#1: Do you actually think the terrorists and insurgents will disarm, disband and go back to their homes if we totally and completely withdraw from the Middle East, shut down Guantanamo Bay and set all the prisoners free?

#2: Do you think that, if we quit the war, the terrorists and insurgents will do likewise?

If your answer to those questions is yes, stop reading now, because you obviously have no grasp on reality, and it would be a waste of your time to read any further. You probably believe that the world is a fair place where everybodys basically honest and truthful and that the Moon is made of green cheese and unicorns and magic fairies come out after midnight and dance under giant, enchanted mushrooms. The rest of you may read on.

The President can do whatever it takes to end this war, but there will still be a war going on. They're not fighting us because were in Iraq and Afghanistan, that is not their primary goal. They're fighting us because they believe that we are infidels, and their religion commands them to wage war on all infidels ... and kill them, wherever they are to be found.

Those who do all the criticizing forget that Islamic terrorists started this war, and if we throw down our guns and go home, that doesn't mean that they're going to do the same. They don't play fair and they don't play by the rules. How can we trust people, who believe that it's not a sin to lie to infidels? They have been attacking us at every opportunity since the 1970s. Living in such a world as we do, with the people who live in it, is akin to being the favorite target of the school bully. You never know what youre going to do or say that will set them off and provoke an attack. Sometimes, doing nothing will trigger an attack.

Those who believe they can live peacefully in a world where terrorists, murderers, tyrants and despots roam free and unchecked, without fear of punishment, are fools, pure and simple. Making peace with terrorists is like making a deal with the devil: in the end, you're going to get burned. Plainly put, they hate us. They hate our beliefs, our way of life, our system of government, our culture, our prosperity and our affluence. They hate the freedom that American women enjoy. They hate us because we're allies of Israel, their sworn enemies. Everything about us is an affront to their religion, their culture and their core beliefs, that's why they call us infidels. They believe that it's Gods will that we should be exterminated from the Earth forever. The intensity of their hatred revealed itself on September 11, 2001 when they used 4 fully-fueled commercial airliners filled with innocent men, women and children as missiles. Had they hit the Twin Towers an hour later, the death toll could have exceeded 100,000! Remember the news footage from the Middle East on September 11, 2001? Remember the joy in their faces and the shouts of elation as they celebrated and danced in the streets? They have dedicated their very lives to the singular goal of destroying us. Nothing is off limits, nothing is untouchable: schools, churches, hospitals, pregnant mothers, babies, little old grannies, were all fair game. They will stop at nothing, including using their own women and children as suicide bombers.

It doesn't matter if we do or do not declare war against terrorists and those who fund, arm, harbor and support them. Don't be so naive as to think that all of this didn't start until George W. Bush was elected President. Muslim terrorists have been waging open war against America and her allies for over 30 years! They will continue to attack us randomly and at every opportunity they get. It doesn't matter if we are in the Middle East or not, until we bring them to the point where they are no longer a threat to us, there will continue to be bombings, hijackings and other acts of terrorism.

I will close with the wise words of British Prime Minister Tony Blair, who told a Labor Party conference, "They have no moral inhibition on the slaughter of the innocent. If they could have murdered, not 7,000 but 70,000, does anyone doubt they would have done so and rejoiced in it? There is no compromise possible with such people, no meeting of minds, no point of understanding with such evil. Just a choice: defeat it or be defeated by it. And defeat it we must!"

[D_Rainger]

Wow! Glad you were able to vent.

A fundamental problem in our world is good government. There is no government that can bring us what we really want: peace in our lives, productive and pleasant work, plenty to eat, good health, happiness, safety for our children, and the ability to continue to have these things throughout our existance. Add to this, the meddlings of false religions saying that "God wants us to do this," or "God wants us to do that." It is no wonder that the world is in turmoil. Who knows what kind of evil is at work behind the scenes causing holocausts and "ethnic cleansings?" The world needs a fundamental change of heart. No man-made government, insitution, religion, or politician is going to bring it about. Read Daniel 2:44 if you dare.

-D_Rainger

[BoTox]

The world is full of evil in the guise of the just. All evil needs to triumph is for a good person to do nothing.

If we do nothing in Iraq and Afganistan, we will have to do something here in the US.

If the Iraqi insurgents disarm today, we'd have peace in Iraq. If the US army left today, we'd have civil war to make Lebanon look like a John Lennon love-in!

I hate to see people harmed or killed but if someone has to die, I want it to be them and not us. They attacked us, they killed us, they mean to do more to us. It is us against them and I, for one, support the war against Islamic extremist fascist to the last one of them!

[diaprbayb]

good thing this finally got posted where the whole world can see. This hope for us all!

[Valentine]

Unicorns and Fairies do come out at midnight to dance under giant, enchanted mushrooms, I just haven't found any giant, enchanted mushrooms to prove it yet.

[iowaincon]

OK, I am going to have to put my two cents worth in here. The first thing I will say is that you can not declare war on an idea. That is what GW has tried to do, declare war on the idea of terrorism, and it will not work, ever. We simply can not afford to try to win a war that is declared on an idea, because there is not central leadership or command, and ideas don't bleed and never die. Next thing we need to do is knock it off with the scared victim crap. If we allow the terrorists to scare us, then we are letting them win. That is the whole concept of terrorism, to use tactics that cause fear in the hearts of the masses, to invoke a change or get your message across. If some a$$ hole tries to hijack your plane with a box cutter, don't just sit there, beat him to death. If someone walks into the public place with a gun, hopefully you live in a state that allows concealed carry, and you can just shoot them, if not, throw a chair or something at them, and rush them. Knock off the scared victim crap for your own good, and encourage others to do the same, take some damn responsibility for your own safety and way of life. That is what built this country, and that is what has made it great, but we are loosing site of that. The last topic of my rant will be Iraq. We really don't need to be there any more. We are fighting insurgents, which are caused by us. The are trying to kill the invading army, just like we would here if someone invaded. We have destroyed the old government, put a new one in power, and pretty much turned everything upside down. The insurgents are not going to be able to reach American soil for a long time, and probably have no real desire to do so if we leave. I also think that we need to focus on Afghanistan, where the Saudi named Osama Bin Laden, who was behind 9/11, is still alive. No body involved in 9/11 was from Iraq, and I think that it is great that we have spent 7 trillion dollars to capture Saddam Husein, and screw up his country, but now we need to focus on the A$$ hole that is the guilty party and get away from the Bush crusade against Iraq. OK, I will stop my rant now. I realize that I will probably catch some flack from this, so let me add for the record, I am a patriotic American and I am a U.S. Army veteran. So please don't send any flames about me not being patriotic. Thanks.

Iowaincon

[BoTox]

As a military vet, you of all people, should know that if we don't fight them now on their soil we will have to fight them later on our home soil.

Everyone, EVERYONE, including Sadam believed he had a nuclear program and was very near to having deployable weapons. He was a state sponsor of terrorism and killed thousand and thousands of his own countrymen.

The person responsible for the killing of a disabled American on the Achille Lauro named Leon Klinghoffer, Abu Abbas, the mastermind was living in Iraq at the time of the invasion.

The extremist have no country. They want westerners, especially Americans, dead. They relish the thought and praise anyone that does harm to the US. Anyone that harbors them is as bad as them.

If Iraq is a magnet for terrorist, so much the better than NY or LA.

[SoCalAB]

Well said Botox

Also, as a reminder to some of us might be too old to serve in the armed forces there are organizions like the American Red Cross http://www.redcross.org/, CIVIL AIR PATROL http://www.cap.gov/ , CERT http://www.citizencorps.gov/cert/ and the US COAST GUARD AUXILAIRY http://nws.cgaux.org/index.html who are looking for people with or without training who are eager to lend a hand and get involved.

Each organization is worthwile looking into. It doesn't matter if you are for the current administration or against it. The point is we are in serious need of people who can be trained for Search and Rescue, first aid and disaster preparedness awareness on land, air and sea.

Stay Pampered

SoCalAB

As a military vet, you of all people, should know that if we don't fight them now on their soil we will have to fight them later on our home soil.

Everyone, EVERYONE, including Sadam believed he had a nuclear program and was very near to having deployable weapons. He was a state sponsor of terrorism and killed thousand and thousands of his own countrymen.

The person responsible for the killing of a disabled American on the Achille Lauro named Leon Klinghoffer, Abu Abbas, the mastermind was living in Iraq at the time of the invasion.

The extremist have no country. They want westerners, especially Americans, dead. They relish the thought and praise anyone that does harm to the US. Anyone that harbors them is as bad as them.

If Iraq is a magnet for terrorist, so much the better than NY or LA.

[redneck diaper boy]

Well said!

There is no negoiating with terrorist. They don't want peace. Look at Israel. They gave up the West Bank. The only way to rid the world of terrorist is to kill the terrorist.

Talk is cheap. Clinton talked and took blowjobs while these Isllamic facist armed themselves.

America has to do what it takes to stifle these people. I hear people worrying about a few wiretaps. Nobody seemed to worry about the DNC tapping in to Newt's cell phone!

I have two questions for Cindy Sheehan and the "peace through appeasement" people who want us out of Iraq, Afghanistan and the Middle East before the job is done.

#1: Do you actually think the terrorists and insurgents will disarm, disband and go back to their homes if we totally and completely withdraw from the Middle East, shut down Guantanamo Bay and set all the prisoners free?

#2: Do you think that, if we quit the war, the terrorists and insurgents will do likewise?

If your answer to those questions is yes, stop reading now, because you obviously have no grasp on reality, and it would be a waste of your time to read any further. You probably believe that the world is a fair place where everybodys basically honest and truthful and that the Moon is made of green cheese and unicorns and magic fairies come out after midnight and dance under giant, enchanted mushrooms. The rest of you may read on.

The President can do whatever it takes to end this war, but there will still be a war going on. They're not fighting us because were in Iraq and Afghanistan, that is not their primary goal. They're fighting us because they believe that we are infidels, and their religion commands them to wage war on all infidels ... and kill them, wherever they are to be found.

Those who do all the criticizing forget that Islamic terrorists started this war, and if we throw down our guns and go home, that doesn't mean that they're going to do the same. They don't play fair and they don't play by the rules. How can we trust people, who believe that it's not a sin to lie to infidels? They have been attacking us at every opportunity since the 1970s. Living in such a world as we do, with the people who live in it, is akin to being the favorite target of the school bully. You never know what youre going to do or say that will set them off and provoke an attack. Sometimes, doing nothing will trigger an attack.

Those who believe they can live peacefully in a world where terrorists, murderers, tyrants and despots roam free and unchecked, without fear of punishment, are fools, pure and simple. Making peace with terrorists is like making a deal with the devil: in the end, you're going to get burned. Plainly put, they hate us. They hate our beliefs, our way of life, our system of government, our culture, our prosperity and our affluence. They hate the freedom that American women enjoy. They hate us because we're allies of Israel, their sworn enemies. Everything about us is an affront to their religion, their culture and their core beliefs, that's why they call us infidels. They believe that it's Gods will that we should be exterminated from the Earth forever. The intensity of their hatred revealed itself on September 11, 2001 when they used 4 fully-fueled commercial airliners filled with innocent men, women and children as missiles. Had they hit the Twin Towers an hour later, the death toll could have exceeded 100,000! Remember the news footage from the Middle East on September 11, 2001? Remember the joy in their faces and the shouts of elation as they celebrated and danced in the streets? They have dedicated their very lives to the singular goal of destroying us. Nothing is off limits, nothing is untouchable: schools, churches, hospitals, pregnant mothers, babies, little old grannies, were all fair game. They will stop at nothing, including using their own women and children as suicide bombers.

It doesn't matter if we do or do not declare war against terrorists and those who fund, arm, harbor and support them. Don't be so naive as to think that all of this didn't start until George W. Bush was elected President. Muslim terrorists have been waging open war against America and her allies for over 30 years! They will continue to attack us randomly and at every opportunity they get. It doesn't matter if we are in the Middle East or not, until we bring them to the point where they are no longer a threat to us, there will continue to be bombings, hijackings and other acts of terrorism.

I will close with the wise words of British Prime Minister Tony Blair, who told a Labor Party conference, "They have no moral inhibition on the slaughter of the innocent. If they could have murdered, not 7,000 but 70,000, does anyone doubt they would have done so and rejoiced in it? There is no compromise possible with such people, no meeting of minds, no point of understanding with such evil. Just a choice: defeat it or be defeated by it. And defeat it we must!"

[diaperwerx]

You have to teach peace as much as war. Hate breeds hate and in the much more concise words of a master general the following apply:

II. WAGING WAR

1. Sun Tzu said: In the operations of war,

where there are in the field a thousand swift chariots,

as many heavy chariots, and a hundred thousand

mail-clad soldiers, with provisions enough to carry them

a thousand li, the expenditure at home and at the front,

including entertainment of guests, small items such as

glue and paint, and sums spent on chariots and armor,

will reach the total of a thousand ounces of silver per day.

Such is the cost of raising an army of 100,000 men.

2. When you engage in actual fighting, if victory

is long in coming, then men's weapons will grow dull and

their ardor will be damped. If you lay siege to a town,

you will exhaust your strength.

3. Again, if the campaign is protracted, the resources

of the State will not be equal to the strain.

4. Now, when your weapons are dulled, your ardor damped,

your strength exhausted and your treasure spent,

other chieftains will spring up to take advantage

of your extremity. Then no man, however wise,

will be able to avert the consequences that must ensue.

5. Thus, though we have heard of stupid haste in war,

cleverness has never been seen associated with long delays.

Sun Tzu - Art of War on waging war.

-dw

[SoCalAB]

We (the USA, UK and the rest of the coalition) are not the ones doing the hating here.

Islamic Fundamentalist have no regard for liberty or respect of the rights of others. It is their way or death. They attacked us first and kept drawing lines in the sand provoking us into action. The solution of liberating Afghanistan against the Taliban was a good move and bringing the war to Iraq while liberating the people from the dictator of Baghdad were very good strategies. We teach peace by liberating countries from dicatators and allowing them to develope their nation into a democracy.

Also we are training the new governments to defend themselves, ie MAINTAIN the peace.

Here is a whitehouse link for facts:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/20...1/20051130.html

You have to teach peace as much as war. Hate breeds hate and in the much more concise words of a master general the following apply:

II. WAGING WAR

1. Sun Tzu said: In the operations of war,

where there are in the field a thousand swift chariots,

as many heavy chariots, and a hundred thousand

mail-clad soldiers, with provisions enough to carry them

a thousand li, the expenditure at home and at the front,

including entertainment of guests, small items such as

glue and paint, and sums spent on chariots and armor,

will reach the total of a thousand ounces of silver per day.

Such is the cost of raising an army of 100,000 men.

2. When you engage in actual fighting, if victory

is long in coming, then men's weapons will grow dull and

their ardor will be damped. If you lay siege to a town,

you will exhaust your strength.

3. Again, if the campaign is protracted, the resources

of the State will not be equal to the strain.

4. Now, when your weapons are dulled, your ardor damped,

your strength exhausted and your treasure spent,

other chieftains will spring up to take advantage

of your extremity. Then no man, however wise,

will be able to avert the consequences that must ensue.

5. Thus, though we have heard of stupid haste in war,

cleverness has never been seen associated with long delays.

Sun Tzu - Art of War on waging war.

-dw

[iowaincon]

I agree that Iraq did pose a threat to the world, and Saddam Husein needed to be removed from power, and his government shut down. I do not think that Iraq was necessarily the biggest thereat in the world at the time we invaded, but that is another topic. I do realize that Iraq was a state sponsor of terrorism, and that is another reason that it needed to be taken out. I think that botox made a good point when he said "The extremists have no country". I personally believe that the U.S. involvement in Iraq is NOT having any bearing on the threat of terrorist attacks on the U.S. I think that the groups that are organized, and well funded enough to attack the U.S. will or would do so whether or not we are occupying Iraq. I do think that we our resources are spread too thin around the world, and that is a danger to our national defence. I also think that if we have not yet put a government in control in Iraq that we can trust, then we need to annex it, and rule it ourselves, because we will never get it done. As a veteran I do realize that if you do not fight an enemy on their own soil, that soon you will fight them on your own soil. I just don't believe that Iraq is the terrorists soil any more. Just my opinion.

Iowaincon

[diaperwerx]

As a vet, of both gulf wars as well...here's my take: That while Saddam may have been a ruthless dictator he did not agree with the Taliban like regimes because they threatened his power.

Both Saddam and Osama we're funded by the CIA at one point or other in order to thwart the soviets (search the new york times archives circa 93 i believe there have been articles before that as well). We have created our own monsters by our own failed foreign policy...and it's apolitical...ie forget republican or democrat....it's both parties. My only point is this: In order to make someone so mad as to give up their life. "We" had to take something from them...and it is possible that we did. And I'm not condemning or condoning anything. One thing I've learned through war is that life is life.

Should we take the absolute steps to ensure the safety of people? Of course. However, like a carpenter we should measure twice and cut once. That was my point. The way we're going we will bleed forever.

[WickyWoo]

1: Do you actually think the terrorists and insurgents will disarm, disband and go back to their homes if we totally and completely withdraw from the Middle East, shut down Guantanamo Bay and set all the prisoners free?

#2: Do you think that, if we quit the war, the terrorists and insurgents will do likewise?

Nope. But by removing Saddam Hussein, we removed a control rod that was keeping sectarian violence in check. The Iraqis had it far better under him than the mess they're in now. Don't forget, we murdered over 100,000 civillians in our initial bombings, and up to 600,000 have since died.

That's over double Saddam's total body count.

Everyone, EVERYONE, including Sadam believed he had a nuclear program and was very near to having deployable weapons. He was a state sponsor of terrorism and killed thousand and thousands of his own countrymen.

Ummm, no. UN and US inspectors told Bush they didn't, but he was dead set on his vendetta, his delusions of grandeur, and his buddy's greed for the oil.

Attacking IRaq was a violation of international law, the UN must sanction all such actions. By doing so Bush violated Article 6 section 2 of the Constitution requiring all treaties be treated as the law of the land.

The extremist have no country. They want westerners, especially Americans, dead. They relish the thought and praise anyone that does harm to the US. Anyone that harbors them is as bad as them.

No, they want us to convert. Christians and Jews are required to kill unbelievers too, and if you're not doing it, you're not obeying your god. And yes, Jesus approves (I have not come to undo the old laws but to fufill them). Just because Christians tend to whitewash those bad parts doesn't make them any less valid.

If we'd just stop supporting illegal Israeli occupations and oppression of Palestine, supporting dictators like the Saudis, and in general

screwing with the region's politics we'd have a lot less problems. Our major meddling has made us an easy target and scapegoat. The other Arabs see Arabs being killed and oppressed with the US backing it, and it naturally pisses them off.

Go watch a film, google it, called "The Power of Nightmares". Osama and the NeoCons are the same people, using the same tactics of

manipulation to achieve the same kinds of power goals.

Talk is cheap. Clinton talked and took blowjobs while these Isllamic facist armed themselves.

Do you know what fascism is?

Obviously not. Facism is the total merging of business interests and government. Aka what the GOP has been trying to do for years.

Look at Life magazine from the 30s, it was the fathers and grandfathers of today's GOP stars that were so admiring Hitler, and

then there's people like Karl Rove whose grandfather helped design Bergen Belsen. Typical Republican technique is to accuse others

of the crimes they themselves commit.

Islamic Fundamentalist have no regard for liberty or respect of the rights of others. It is their way or death. They attacked us first and kept drawing lines in the sand provoking us into action. The solution of liberating Afghanistan against the Taliban was a good move and bringing the war to Iraq while liberating the people from the dictator of Baghdad were very good strategies. We teach peace by liberating countries from dicatators and allowing them to develope their nation into a democracy.

You're delusional. You can't spread democracy at the point of a gun, or by installing puppet governments with little to no actual power over the people. The Taliban are back in force, and Karzai's government controls about 10 square blocks. It's getting to be the same way in Bagdhad.

There were no "lines in the sand". No country attacked us, Iraq did not attack us, and they were following the guidelines set forth by the UN. It's documented that by noon on 9/11 RUmmy and the gang were already looking for a way to pin it all on Saddam, and that they lied, used known liars and partisan hacks like Curveballand the Iraqi National Congress to gather cherry picked intel. How many former intelligence agents need to testify how they were yelled and screamed at to go back and get the "right" intel?

Here is a whitehouse link for facts:

Yes, because the people who have been proven time and again to be liars and criminals are the ones to trust. Stop watching Fox News

[BoTox]

Nope. But by removing Saddam Hussein, we removed a control rod that was keeping sectarian violence in check. The Iraqis had it far better under him than the mess they're in now. Don't forget, we murdered over 100,000 civillians in our initial bombings, and up to 600,000 have since died.

Dying free is better than living on your knees. That is a principal this country was founded on and you have no sense of history, loyalty or patriotism. Appeasement gets you no where except farther behind when you finally realize that war is inevitable.

You are so wrong on so many points I don't have time or energy to fight you or Scientology. In the days when I was growing up, we'd say you drank the Kool-Aid!

[Veritas21C]

Right, I'm going to add my two penneth here...

Nope. But by removing Saddam Hussein, we removed a control rod that was keeping sectarian violence in check. The Iraqis had it far better under him than the mess they're in now. Don't forget, we murdered over 100,000 civillians in our initial bombings, and up to 600,000 have since died.

That's over double Saddam's total body count.

Link to those figures please? Even the worst estimate I've seen is less than half that number... Regardless, have you actually been to Iraq? I have, and the majority of the people are much happier with the change. Don't believe everything you read in the papers... The country is on a slow road to recovery and becoming the golden boy of the Middle East.

Ummm, no. UN and US inspectors told Bush they didn't, but he was dead set on his vendetta, his delusions of grandeur, and his buddy's greed for the oil.

Yeah, those inspectors weren't able to comb every square inch of desert.

Attacking IRaq was a violation of international law, the UN must sanction all such actions. By doing so Bush violated Article 6 section 2 of the Constitution requiring all treaties be treated as the law of the land.

What is international law? The same law that Iraq managed to violate a bazillion times?

No, they want us to convert. Christians and Jews are required to kill unbelievers too, and if you're not doing it, you're not obeying your god. And yes, Jesus approves (I have not come to undo the old laws but to fufill them). Just because Christians tend to whitewash those bad parts doesn't make them any less valid.

Irrelevant... How many Christians and Jews do you see going around slotting infidels? *puts on flame retardant suit* Fact is, Islam is one of those religions where it's easier to convert people to extremism.

If we'd just stop supporting illegal Israeli occupations and oppression of Palestine, supporting dictators like the Saudis, and in general screwing with the region's politics we'd have a lot less problems. Our major meddling has made us an easy target and scapegoat. The other Arabs see Arabs being killed and oppressed with the US backing it, and it naturally pisses them off.

Everyone meddles, everyone's got their fingers in all the pies in some way shape or form. You think the Middle East would be a happy fun place if we left them to it? Israel would have been driven into the see long ago, there'd be a mad stranglehold on oil and gas, you say 'so what?' you have a car I'll bet, at the end of the day voters don't care about poor Johnny Turk in Frickfrakistan and his hardships, they care about a cheap tank of fuel and a low cost standard of living. I'm not saying it's good, or right, but it's just the way things go.

Go watch a film, google it, called "The Power of Nightmares". Osama and the NeoCons are the same people, using the same tactics of

manipulation to achieve the same kinds of power goals.

Conspiracy! Conspiracy! I watched it a few years ago, it's pretty biassed mate.

You're delusional. You can't spread democracy at the point of a gun, or by installing puppet governments with little to no actual power over the people. The Taliban are back in force, and Karzai's government controls about 10 square blocks. It's getting to be the same way in Bagdhad.

I'd hardly call them puppet governments, it's not like the Nazi's rolling into France and sticking in the Vichi government. Yeah, down south in Afghan it's all a bit mad, you can't go blaming that all on Terry Taliban, if the NGOs and Charities got off their arses in Kabul and stopped drinking beer and discussing the merits of the different themed restaurants in the city and started with the regeneration of the south of the country things would start improving.

I can't comment much on the old 'Sunni Triangle' but from guys I've spoken to things are slowly but surely getting there.

There were no "lines in the sand". No country attacked us, Iraq did not attack us, and they were following the guidelines set forth by the UN. It's documented that by noon on 9/11 RUmmy and the gang were already looking for a way to pin it all on Saddam, and that they lied, used known liars and partisan hacks like Curveballand the Iraqi National Congress to gather cherry picked intel. How many former intelligence agents need to testify how they were yelled and screamed at to go back and get the "right" intel?

Yes, because the people who have been proven time and again to be liars and criminals are the ones to trust. Stop watching Fox News

I'm well aware that Saddam had no link to 9/11, however, at the end of the day, the man was a fucking tyrant and a lunatic, consistantly giving two fingers to the precious UN. Without going all 'you don't know man, you weren't there!' on you, I saw plenty of shit that justified invading the country, and it will work out for the best... Regardless, what's done is done, if troops are withdrawn now the current situation will get ten times worse and Iraq WILL CERTAINLY become a havan for terrorists and nasty folk. Not only that, it completely erases all the hard work that's been done so far, and all the sacrifices that blokes have been asked to make.

[WickyWoo]

gas, there would still be the same dictators in place, and the vast majority of our gas comes from South America anyway. I think Saudi Arabia is like #7

I'll bet, at the end of the day voters don't care about poor Johnny Turk in Frickfrakistan and his hardships, they care about a cheap tank of fuel and a low cost standard of living. I'm not saying it's good, or right, but it's just the way things go.

Well, their selfishness is disgusting. We're all human, and we're all in this together

Conspiracy! Conspiracy! I watched it a few years ago, it's pretty biassed mate

Give me a break. So the Soviet Death Ray and the Red October Submarine were proven to be there because....

there was no evidence! And who was pushing this? Why it was Dicky, and Rummy! And who all signed the Project for a New American Century, which included offing Saddam as a big talking point? Why it's everyone currently running things!

You need to watch it again.

I'd hardly call them puppet governments, it's not like the Nazi's rolling into France and sticking in the Vichi government.

Really? And if they don't do what we tell them, how long do you think they're allowed to remain in power?

Instead they show up for the appropriate

Yeah, down south in Afghan it's all a bit mad, you can't go blaming that all on Terry Taliban, if the NGOs and Charities got off their arses in Kabul and stopped drinking beer and discussing the merits of the different themed restaurants in the city and started with the regeneration of the south of the country things would start improving.

Umm, no. You need to read international news sources.

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Afghanis...enter_0904.html

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Newsweek...ional_0925.html

I can't comment much on the old 'Sunni Triangle' but from guys I've spoken to things are slowly but surely getting there.

Not even close. In fact it looks like US taxpayers paid to train those Shiite death squads, and the police are completely controlled by the militias

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Infiltra...delay_1031.html

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Video_CB..._stay_1031.html

I'm well aware that Saddam had no link to 9/11, however, at the end of the day, the man was a fucking tyrant and a lunatic

So are the Saudis, so is Mugabe down in Zimbabwe, so are the guys who run the UAE, the list goes on and on. Why weren't they taken out, instead of a dictator who was already contained, and essentially neutered?

Regardless, what's done is done, if troops are withdrawn now the current situation will get ten times worse and Iraq WILL CERTAINLY become a havan for terrorists and nasty folk

And we did that. It doesn't matter if we withdraw now or in 3006, the same crap is going to happen. Whoever wins the elections, we'll be out of there in less than 2 years, guaranteed, ready or not.

Not only that, it completely erases all the hard work that's been done so far, and all the sacrifices that blokes have been asked to make

And who should be held responsible for not learning from Vietnam, and causing those needless sacrifices?

Every single person who voted for or otherwise backed the illegal war. Cuff them up and send them to trial.

[diaperwerx]

WickyWoo. I think your rebuttal was well placed. There is way too much propaganda going around and it seems to me like you are well informed.

To Everyone else: Dudes and Dudettes [yeah I know I'm dated] there is much more going on than what is published in the U.S. media...

dw

[nappyloon]

Hi everyone, People all around the world "go to war" for what they think is right, but when you listen to discussions about Afghanistan and Iraq what do you hear-people are very unhappy about what is going on as it is generally not "the peoples" wish to invade and rule those countries.

So how would you stop a war ?

The answer is very simple indeed, so simple I cannot think why it has not been put into being before

Send ALL the politicians who voted "yes" to the "front line" where they can go and fight instead of innocent soldiers.

"BE HAPPY IN YOUR NAPPY"

[BoTox]

There will never be an end to war until there is only one person left on earth and he/she will probably have just killed the next to last person on earth over a scrap of meat or bread.

The point is, as long as there is a higher brain function (but not that high) there will be someone willing to do violence to another over little or nothing.

[Valentine]

There will never be an end to war until there is only one person left on earth and he/she will probably have just killed the next to last person on earth over a scrap of meat or bread.

The point is, as long as there is a higher brain function (but not that high) there will be someone willing to do violence to another over little or nothing.

Some species of Ants also conduct operations very much like war, so higher brain function is not really necessary.

[diaperwerx]

Actually higher brain function is not necessary, since my every single post that i made to this post was in an inebriated state, there is no higher brain function needed to wage war. In fact, the only problem with higher brain function is the aftermath.

dw

[Toddler_BobbyP]

Saddam may indeed have differences with the Taliban, but the one thing that must be made clear is that an adage we commonly decry that "Your enemy's enemy is your friend" is treated like gospel truth in Islamic circles. Just because there's differences in the Muslim world doesn't mean there's alliances which are trumped by those differences. Another common Muslim saying is "My cousin and I against the infidel; My brother and I against my cousin". Just because Saddam had differences with the Taliban apparent to our Western world did not mean that underhandedly he didn't have positive dealings with them. The Muslim faith is nothing like how we Westerners do things...not at all. There is a lot about Islamic culture we don't know or understand, and we need to get a little wiser; Not smarter, but wiser, and that includes availing ourselves a little more to talking to Muslim leaders, hearing them out and trying to resolve this mess we've gotten ourselves into. Granted, surrender or 'peace at any price' isn't on the table...Only dialogue and negotiation will save us all. Who's gonna talk first?