Lack Of Speed Kills

[Wet Knight]

SCOOP.

By our motoring expert.

It was announced in England at lunch time today, that in the last year, car accidents have risen by 26% on roads where the speed restriction has been reduced to 20 MPH.

The statistic speak for themselves. A lapse of concentration at 20 MPH can be more likely than at 30 MPH !!.

Clearly all these 20 MPH areas must be increased to 30 MPH. This will reduce accidents in 20 MPH areas to zero.

Don't you just love statistics. It doesn't mention whether there are more 20 MPH areas than last year.

[sarah_ab]

it also doesnt mention whether the accidents were cause by people who were speeding hitting people who were going the speed limit .... or were all parties going the speed limit ....

[drynot]

You also don't mention how many fatalities were in those stats. I would assume not too many folks were seriously injured at 20 mph......

[Diapered Jason]

Lol, assumptions are going to be the bane of our existence. I just know it. How do statistics speak for them self? They are simply data points which usually come with a myriad of interpretations. You need more information to make a conclusion and at best, that will just be a theory. One very important thing we are missing is historically the change in accidents each year before the change in speed limits. For all we know, this result could be better. Also missing is the change in car accidents on other road types, because it could be a result of poor weather or poor road conditions. Another thing that is missing is flow rate. There could have been more accidents because more people were driving on the road. The Olympics are likely capable of causing this or just general development. Of course, there are the things previous posters have mentioned as well. Finally and certainly not the least important is how can we differentiate this from a fluke with just one year of data? How consistent is it really?

[Wet Knight]

Lol, assumptions are going to be the bane of our existence. I just know it. How do statistics speak for themselves.......... You need more information to make a conclusion and at best, that will just be a theory. One thing that is missing is the change in car accidents on other road types,

I think we can assume that there were less accidents on the other types of road, because they are now happening on 20 MPH roads

[Wet Knight]

it also doesnt mention whether the accidents were cause by people who were speeding hitting people who were going the speed limit .... or were all parties going the speed limit ....

It could be the same number of people, hitting each other more often.

[sarah_ab]

it could be yes.. but see here in lies the problem, until ALL possible explanations have been excluded, than there is no way to state that driving slower causes more accidents.. it could simply be that people who are obeying the speed limit are frustrating those hwo wish to go fast, so those who wish to go fast, drive faster and more recklessly causing more accident,s in which case driving 20 mph does not cause more accidents, but rather driving faster in a slower zone does.

[dlover49]

Mark Twain wrote that there are three types of lies

Lies

Damn lies

Statistics

[square_duck]

The problem here isn't speed, but lack of driver training and education! If someone operating a motor vehicle (which is a piece of heavy equipment) cannot drive 20 MPH with out getting into some kind of an accident.....obviously that person has absolutely NO business driving in the first place!!!!! If you cannot handle a vehicle properly and SAFELY in the first place, you should'nt be doing it...it's that simple But some many people feel that they have the right (or should have) to own and operate cars trucks or SUV's no matter how badly, and they are ENTITLED to it...it just creates a huge mess.....There is NO excuse for a collision at 20 MPH, much less any fatality...such people guilty of these activities should be taken behind a police station and shot!

[beallucanb]

People that drive under or just at the speed limit, are a hazard

There are more accidents caused by drivers trying to get around idiots who think they set the speed for the road.

Go find a parade if you want to drive slow, the rest of us need to be somewhere.

[sarah_ab]

If the law says the speed limit is 20 mph, than would it not be the people who are breaking the law causing the hazard? I saw again, how many of these accidents were caused by people driving the speed limit, and how many by people who were disregarding a LAW and driving faster than the speed limit?

while it is generally acceptable to go 2-5 mph over the posted limit, it is a bit absurd to blame those who chose to follow the law, than to blame those that blatantly disregard the law....

[Bettypooh]

People that drive under or just at the speed limit, are a hazard

There are more accidents caused by drivers trying to get around idiots who think they set the speed for the road.

Go find a parade if you want to drive slow, the rest of us need to be somewhere.

Emphasis by me

Look who caused the accidents above- the persons trying to get around, not the person doing the speed limit

And they are doing the speed limit, not setting the speed for others to do

Wanna shoot yourself on the foot again?

If you don't like the speed limit, get it changed (if you can). It's not up to you to 'set' a higher speed limit by driving faster either. The speed limit is the speed limit- ie the law- like it or not. What you suggest as a proper approach -ie breaking the law- means that I should be allowed to rape your daughter and take your TV just because I want to. It's the same thing- breaking the law, and you are saying that this should be a personal choice I kind of doubt that you want me to do those things I mentioned (which I'd never do anyway) and no, I am not taking it to extremes. I am just following your logic. Neither you or me made the laws but we are compelled to follow them whether we agree with them or not. The proper process is to change the law, not to break it because you don't like it.

I think many speed limits are set too low, but I ain't gonna gripe if I get a speeding ticket if I don't follow those limits. It's not the speed that kills, it's bad drivers having crashes that kills. Modern cars on a clear dry road are safer than ever before at any given speed, but not everyone drives those. A semi-truck may not be safe at that same speed. In many mountainous areas trucks have a lower speed limit and/or lane restrictions to reflect this disparity. When slower traffic keeps right, faster traffic can safely pass (USA). What is needed are better trained drivers who drive more safely because that would allow for higher safe speed limits to be set

But as long as you're out there breaking speed limits and tailgating people because they are not driving as fast as you want them to, you are the reason for the low speed limits you complain of because they are not going to increase speed limits on a section of road that has a comparably higher crash rate. Twist the statistics all you want to but that's how this world works like it or not.

You may have noticed I used the word "crashes" instead of "accidents". Words mean things and there are almost no traffic accidents- but lots of crashes that could have been avoided and therefore were not accidental even if they were unwanted. That is the real issue here, people who are not driving responsibly and who are not being dealt with appropriately. Any driver who is endangering others needs to be removed from the driver's seat. Instead we slap their hand, charge them a little money, and put them behind the wheel again. Instead of fighting tooth and nail in court to prove a case, insurance lawyers will settle a case instead of fighting for what is right. We pay through the nose for mandatory vehicle insurance because of this. Nobody wins except insurance companies and lawyers. That too must stop.

I lived in Houston in the early 80's. Car insurance was optiional. Everybody drove the highways at 90MPH will less than a car length between them. When a light turned from red to green everybody accelerated at the same time and a lot of traffic was moved through because it had to be moved. If you were slow on the accelerator, the car behind you would push you ahead. You learned to deal with this because there was no changing it since everyone was driving like this. There were a lot of tiny bump-ups between cars but few major crashes. Everyone looked 30 cars ahead for brakelights because you had to- by the time you saw them on the car in front of you, you had already ran into that car! You quickly learned to play your role in traffic or you let someone else drive- or you died I'm not suggesting such a wild-west way is proper, but it did work pretty well for those who played along

And that is the whole thing in a nutshell- it's not the driven speed but everyone doing the same speed which makes driving safer. Those who cause their speed to be very far from the average traffic speed do not need to be behind the wheel, be that faster or slower. Where I live, driving at or slightly above the speed limit is not too far from that average speed, and therefore safe. If that changes so will my speed. I'm the one in the right lane maintaining a consistent safe speed. You can see me a long way off if you look and find a safe opening to get into the left lane to pass me if you want- I really don't care if you pass me or not- I'll get where I'm going in plenty of time because I allowed that much time to get there

If I see you flying up behind me, that tells me that you weren't looking far enough ahead to be driving at the speed you're driving- you are the problem, not me. I saw you but you didn't see me even when I was where you needed to be looking- straight ahead. If you ever find yourself flying up behind somebody the problem isn't them-it's you Off the road with you so the rest of us can drive safely!

Bettypooh

[Dubious]

There is no speed limit, only recommended speed

I and everyone else, always drive just under the limit where you would lose your driver license if caught. if you dont, ppl will drive past you making the one following the signs, the reason for the crash..

[Dubious]

Well, here in Norway we have freeways that are limited to 70-80 km/h (43-50 miles), thats roads with up to 6 lanes, sometimes only 2, but always a brick wall between the 2 directions

Then we have roads, so small you cant meet 2 cars on them with the same speed limit...

and you wonder why so many ppl are speeding on freeways?

[Bettypooh]

There is no speed limit, only recommended speed

I and everyone else, always drive just under the limit where you would lose your driver license if caught. if you dont, ppl will drive past you making the one following the signs, the reason for the crash..

If you will lose your license exceeding it, then the speed limit is a law, not a recommendation or suggestion. If you do not believe this then ignore the sign and see what happens next as the Police (law enforcement) begs to differ with you At least that's how it works in most of the world. And similarly, almost everywhere it is every driver's responsibility to not hit anyone or anything else as they drive, thus if you collide with something it was your fault for not avoiding it no matter what. Laws are in place to regulate society to one standard which all are obliged to follow. If you do not want to obey the law then you should not expect anyone to respect it in regards to anything of yours.

That is the responsibility each of us must accept to be a part of society- there is no choosing which parts you want to agree with and which parts you don't; it is all or nothing For those who choose nothing the rest of the society will cause you to be removed from our presence by placing you in jail I hope that if you choose to not go along the rest of us that the Norwegian jail food is better than in the US- it really sucks here

Bettypooh

[Dubious]

Norwegian Jail is like a Hotel

You can check out whenever you want, but who want to since one get free internet and TV and food

[drynot]

There is no speed limit, only recommended speed

I and everyone else, always drive just under the limit where you would lose your driver license if caught. if you dont, ppl will drive past you making the one following the signs, the reason for the crash..

You don't actually believe that do you? How can the person who is following the rules of the road possibly be the reason for a crash IF somebody chooses to pass them and gets into an accident as a result?

If there is one constant in this world...it is this. People VASTLY overestimate how proficient they are at driving.

[MessiBoi]

Its not the speed that kills you, its the sudden stop that does!

[freswith]

Our local police are notorious for siting their speed cameras at places here they will get the most revenue, not where the risk is highest.

This is described in the Magistrate's handbook as "heavy handed and predatory policing", and the police get very touchy if you use the phrase at them.

The largest road safety "charity", BRAKE, is a lobby group which receives a large donation of public money. It always pronounces immediately upon any government press release with a comment supporting government policy. It is getting very hard to distinguish between the police, the politicians and the criminals over here. The only difference I can see is that the criminals sometimes have enough sense of shame to wear masks.

[Dubious]

People driving to fast get worse punishment than those that rape, just to put it on the edge..