Mudslinging In Campaigning

[Leilin]

You are feeding a troll, you two.

[Eir]

When I was in Grammar School, one of my history teachers opened his class by bashing the late great Senator Joseph McCarthy. Now that I look at Hollywood and know the McCarthy was right by branding them as being Communist.During the Cold war there were commies everywhere.

I like this, NOT!!! I will always err on the side of protecting innocent Americans, even if that means some communists will go unspotted. They have a right to their political views as well. I do not usually do sarcastic likes, but in this case I just had to.

Thousands of innocent Americans were either jailed, or blacklisted from their prospective occupations just because they

were accused of being communist. It was a witch hunt. My grandmother watches Glen Beck, she worships the Republican

Party. She told me point blank that it is nonesense that some Americans could not be able to afford health care because

they have color TV's. She has had a rough life, and was eaten alive by guilt and self pitty, we almost lost her last Christmas

she is 65 and going on 96, looks like she has had 30 years of her life sucked out of her. I will excuse certain ignorance, narrow-

mindedness, and dare I say it right wing village idiocy from a grandparent, but i will not accept it from you!

I typically vote Republican, but would vote independant, or dare I say it Democratic to keep out the likes of Huckabee. The seven

mountains dominionists he is associated with are into some deep scary theocratic shit!

[sarah_ab]

Trolls are people too! lol... ohhh that reminds me of the three billy goats gruff... haven't heard that story in forever!!!

[Diapered Jason]

Ron Paul would support the elimination of the Federal Reserve Bank.

Why is that a good idea?

[redneck diaper boy]

Why is that a good idea?

I have a problem with the nations currency being controled and manipulated by a privately owned corporation! The Federal Reserve Bank is a federal as Federal Express.

http://www.lawfulpath.com/ref/federal_reserve.shtml

[Eir]

^Thinks Glen Beck is God.

[Darkfinn]

Personally, the only reason I'm voting Obama this time around is to keep a Mormon out of the White House. Having lived in Utah for two years I can tell you with 100% certainty that I do NOT want one of them running the show. Those folks are their own special breed and it is not something to be proud of.

[Alexandra]

O sweet gods above did you really just say that are you serious Darkfinn as dumb and misguide/plain false as I think alot of RDB's comments and positions are at least he has some notition of pretense you can't really think its ok to just admit to being predjudice against mormons and then basing your politics around it no strike that its ok do wht you want its a free country more or less but I say it here that method of thinking is neither helpful nor intelligent. voting for, in my opinion, the lesser of two evils based on evil reasons is just as evil as voting for the greater of two evils if you get my point.

[Diapered Jason]

I have a problem with the nations currency being controled and manipulated by a privately owned corporation! The Federal Reserve Bank is a federal as Federal Express.

http://www.lawfulpat...l_reserve.shtml

So you want more government oversight of the currency?

[Darkfinn]

O sweet gods above did you really just say that are you serious Darkfinn ... ... ...

Have you lived in Utah? Have you experienced Mormon politics first hand? Have you learned some of the finer intracacies of the faith and educated yourself about the LDS church and what they really believe? I didn't think so.

Elect a Mormon, he will appoint other Mormons to positions of power, you end up with the Church running the State. Don't believe me, go live in Utah for a few years.

Just off the top of my head...

First off, there aren't very many good restaurants in SLC. Why, you ask? Because the State gives out a very limited number of liquor permits per year. Why is that? Oh, because all members of the Alcohol Board are Mormon... and they think drinking is a sin.

Secondly, Utah leads the nation in disparity of pay rates between men and women. Why is that? Perhaps because Mormons believe the woman's place is at home popping out babies and tending to domestic chores.

Thirdly, the LDS church has a long history of discrimination... especially against blacks. However they apparently don't have any problems with illegal hispanic immigrants and desire to welcome them with open arms and amnesty for all.

So no, my opinion is not simply "prejudice against Mormons"... it is one supported by evidence, experience and hard facts.

[Diapered Jason]

Jon Stewart already brought this up on his show rather well. Darkfinn, they do not do those things not necessarily because of their religion, but because they are Republican.

[Alexandra]

Darkfinn the issue is your using begittry to decied your politics now I'm no expert on mormons and maybe their church is questionable but saying a person shouldn't be president because of his faith is so wrong it'd be like me saying no monotheist person should be elected because the abrahamic faiths have a long bloody history of bigotry, discrimination, cruelty, and lies that'd be just as offensive because chirstens don't all behave the same and more so most good ones would keep their political agenda seqular. now am I saying I support Romney, no in fact I'd rather spend an eternity in the fields of punishment than see him elected but thats because of his stance on varrious issue and the ludicris ideas he represents. to sum it up remeber just because there's a correlation doesn't mean there's a causation

[ForbiddenFruit]

If you want to take something positive out of it, mudslinging can show one's true colours. Transparency will give you an open view to idiocy. When I saw the thread title, I knew I just had to find this little gem!

Yep. It's mudslinging. Isn't that awful?

Pardon me, I'm still laughing. I know, it's terrible that someone wants to believe a theory supported by empirical evidence and the scientific method, rather than one made entirely of ad-hoc additions and entailing impossible floods, super-dirt and magic ribs. "Parts of the bible are only partially true". Going to use that as grounds to bash someone, hm? Gotta love irony.

So, as tempting as it is to stomp on mudslinging, and with good reason to boot, I'd support it for the same reason I support all free speech: Transparency lets idiocy shine through. I like to think of your own positives as the peacock preening itself. It's when you move out from yourself that people see what you're really saying.

EDIT: Yes, I'm aware of how misleading the video title is. I think TYT have some tradition whereby they brainfart once a month, in addition to Cenk flying off the handle with the same regularity.

[Darkfinn]

now I'm no expert on mormons and maybe their church is questionable

Perhaps you should do some more research into exactly what your candidate believes and stands for before making a decision.

I've seen Obama in action for the past four years. While his record isn't exactly stellar we certainly aren't any worse off than we were the day before he was sworn in, and in the midst of the largest financial crisis in the past eighty years I'd say keeping America afloat is certainly something to be proud of... especially considering the GOP has been completely unwilling to compromise on increased taxation and spending cuts, two things that are absolutely necessary in order to address our single biggest problem, overspending.

Just for the record, I don't think Obama is going to save America either. We've gone too far at this point... the best thing we can do now is damage control and hope that the collapse won't take us all out when it comes.

[Alexandra]

Ok read my whole post I'm not for any of the republican candidates and I despise the tea party more than I can properly describe, as a side note though I do think America can be saved it'll just take more than one person president or not. I had a problem with your reasoning for not liking Romney, because he's mormon, which I just think is a dispiacable reason to not vote for someone. But to be clear I support Obama and I think the tea party is full of rich prigs who care nothing for the lower classes yet put on a fasud like they're your average working class american.

[Bettypooh]

How nice to see the mudslinging happen here in this thread Mudslinging is what happens when logical arguments fail to pierce the thicker skulls of those opposed to your ideas- and also the reverse of that It's like the old sales saying of "dazzle them with technology or baffle them with BS". Either one will work on some people and that is more than no people.

It doesn't take thinking to mudsling- it is a purely emotional approach to a subject which proves positively that the person slinging the mud hasn't got the proper answers which can stand on their own without the need for support. I can remember but one candidate in my 50+ years of life who didn't mudsling (at least not initially, and when their campaign managers pushed them into doing it they proved to not do it well- it was a concept which was totally foreign to their good nature). The funny part was that their opposition dug and dug but couldn't find any 'mud' on this persons life to sling upon them so they contrived it because they had nothing else to use again them. Without 'mud' their ideas would have clearly lost. And they found other ways to quash the opposition to their being elected so that in the end, the nice guy lost once again

Every candidate for office that I've heard of (including all mentioned here) is not the kind of person who has the morals they should have to hold that office, but the political system is designed so that we really don't have any other potentially winning choices. Truly good people are not allowed into their game because it would make their own rottenness more manifestly clear. We're getting what we, as a nation, deserve to get for not stopping these people from taking over the system. I hate that because I am one of that nation and I think we deserve better than this- don't you?

Bettypooh

[Leilin]

Perhaps you should do some more research into exactly what your candidate believes and stands for before making a decision.

When accusing people of not doing research, it's usually a good idea to actually not make incorrect assumptions about what their opinions are.

[sarah_ab]

Every candidate for office that I've heard of (including all mentioned here) is not the kind of person who has the morals they should have to hold that office,

this is why you should vote sarah_ab in 2020! I won't pretend to ahve morals!

[Diapered Jason]

It doesn't take thinking to mudsling- it is a purely emotional approach to a subject which proves positively that the person slinging the mud hasn't got the proper answers which can stand on their own without the need for support. I can remember but one candidate in my 50+ years of life who didn't mudsling (at least not initially, and when their campaign managers pushed them into doing it they proved to not do it well- it was a concept which was totally foreign to their good nature). The funny part was that their opposition dug and dug but couldn't find any 'mud' on this persons life to sling upon them so they contrived it because they had nothing else to use again them. Without 'mud' their ideas would have clearly lost. And they found other ways to quash the opposition to their being elected so that in the end, the nice guy lost once again

You just proved your first statement incorrect, since you say so yourself that mudslinging is a tactical approach to convince someone that a falsehood is true. Also, campaigning is completely unrelated to the word answers. Politicians when campaigning will try to appear to have no opinion to an extent to avoid being on record for saying something. Saying things like "read my lips, no new taxes" is a complete failure when it comes to campaigning. That is why their answers to questions are usually very unspecific and unhelpful in determining what they actually stand for, which is another reason why mudslinging is effective. Back on topic, I think it does take quite a bit of thinking to mudsling effectively and strategically. For one, it takes a certain charisma and the right set of key words. Much research and experimentation goes into determining those key words, whether it be for an attack ad or a slogan. One thing that is clear about campaigning is it is ideally all planned before the start of the campaign, including the mudslinging. I really doubt any of the candidates for president are all that emotional when it comes to campaigning.

Every candidate for office that I've heard of (including all mentioned here) is not the kind of person who has the morals they should have to hold that office, but the political system is designed so that we really don't have any other potentially winning choices. Truly good people are not allowed into their game because it would make their own rottenness more manifestly clear. We're getting what we, as a nation, deserve to get for not stopping these people from taking over the system. I hate that because I am one of that nation and I think we deserve better than this- don't you?

Of course, because that is what you have to do to get enough money to campaign.

[Bettypooh]

....Politicians when campaigning will try to appear to have no opinion to an extent to avoid being on record for saying something. Also, campaigning is completely unrelated to the word answers....

Oh really? Apparently you haven't heard the candidates taking positions like "get rid of the Fed" or "healthcare reform" or even the perpetual "pro-education and against taxes" stand they all take. They do choose their words to leave as much 'wiggle room' as they can but they all take stands campaigning and offer answers to those questions when doing so. It does not take much thinking to make fun of someone, aka mudslinging, but it does take a lack of consideration and respect for someone who happens to view things differently. Saying "My opponent's ideas will not work, and here's why" is a lot different than saying "my opponent is an idiot if he thinks his ideas will work". Sadly, the American people as a whole have chosen to hear the mudslinging over the issues, and that is why we get to "vote for one fool or another" as Mojo Nixon said.

We can debate the answers or even if there is a need for them without attacking the character of someone else, or trying to make them look like a lesser person than ourself. Anyone who has the right answers to problems and questions will share them, while those who do not will avoid responding, usually by distraction your attention from the issue onto something else that really doesn't matter. It is the latter group that comprises of electable candidates and the reason for that is us.

Bettypooh

[Diapered Jason]

Oh really? Apparently you haven't heard the candidates taking positions like "get rid of the Fed" or "healthcare reform" or even the perpetual "pro-education and against taxes" stand they all take. They do choose their words to leave as much 'wiggle room' as they can but they all take stands campaigning and offer answers to those questions when doing so. It does not take much thinking to make fun of someone, aka mudslinging, but it does take a lack of consideration and respect for someone who happens to view things differently. Saying "My opponent's ideas will not work, and here's why" is a lot different than saying "my opponent is an idiot if he thinks his ideas will work". Sadly, the American people as a whole have chosen to hear the mudslinging over the issues, and that is why we get to "vote for one fool or another" as Mojo Nixon said.

We can debate the answers or even if there is a need for them without attacking the character of someone else, or trying to make them look like a lesser person than ourself. Anyone who has the right answers to problems and questions will share them, while those who do not will avoid responding, usually by distraction your attention from the issue onto something else that really doesn't matter. It is the latter group that comprises of electable candidates and the reason for that is us.

Bettypooh

Yeah, and those politicians who talk about stupid stuff like that did not stand a chance of getting elected. No, Mitt Romney won the Republican nominee as I recall. He is about as bland and generic with his opinions as they come, but the Republicans are shooting themselves in the foot if they think they will never raise taxes (because they will have to). I was mostly referring to the general election anyway where the two left and right candidates suddenly become moderates. I do not think you get the depth of mudslinging. Calling your opponent an idiot is not an effective tactic, because that would just make you look bad. Effective mudslinging would be like accusing your opponent of dirty campaign tactics after you used them yourself against your opponent, calling into question your opponents war record like Bush did to Kerry, or even creating wedge issues. These things put your opponent off message so they cannot even tell the public their message without having to answer questions regarding these issues and they also reduce your opponent's strengths so he has less to run on.

[Darkfinn]

At some point taxes are going to have to go up and spending is going to have to be reduced. The sooner we do it the better it will be for our future. However I don't believe that our government as it exists today is cabable of stopping America's fall. Wiping away the whole system and putting something new in place is the only solution. Give powers back to the states and institute a multi-party system that requires compromise and will not allow stalemate.

[Diapered Jason]

At some point taxes are going to have to go up and spending is going to have to be reduced. The sooner we do it the better it will be for our future. However I don't believe that our government as it exists today is cabable of stopping America's fall. Wiping away the whole system and putting something new in place is the only solution. Give powers back to the states and institute a multi-party system that requires compromise and will not allow stalemate.

I respectfully disagree. Balancing the budget should be done over the course of years, otherwise we will have the same problem as Europe where our economic growth actually goes negative and another recession begins. We have a labor force and an economy to rebuild first. Right now, we should be mostly concentrated on putting people back to work and I think a good way to do that is through investment. Direct investments in infrastructure, research, and other areas will yield significant returns in revenue. Note: The stimulus bill did not do this. No, we cannot just throw money at the problem. We actually have to assign the money to specific projects or it will never make it through the bureaucracy.

[Alexandra]

I don't get the obsesion with giving the states ultimate authority we tried that once under the articles of confederation and it went horribly what makes people think it will be any better today if the federal government was abolished.

[Leilin]

Yup. Overauthority of states leads to the utter crapstorm that is Arizona right now. Due process? Nah. Equal rights? For losers. Constitution? Just a piece of paper. Corporations? WE LOVES THEM AND THEY DON"T NEED LAWS!