Warning: Do Not Click If You Have Religious Views You Do Not Want Challenged

[Horndog]

I'm an atheist, but I don't shove it down people's throats.

[ForbiddenFruit]

I'll adress the actual point of the thread this evening, but I couldn't help but smile at this

So then, unicorns, leprechauns, big foot, UFOs, dragons, chimera, men on Mars, goblins, Cthulhu .... are religious?

Hah, looks like I wasn't alone then. I too used to believe (/beleive? Damn it...) Cthulhu was an urban legend (along the lines of the Slenderman and Zalgo) too. I only realised the truth of the matter (pop culture mutation of a character from a string of short stories) when I googled Yog-Sothoth.

[ForbiddenFruit]

I'll adress the actual point of the thread this evening, but I couldn't help but smile at this

So then, unicorns, leprechauns, big foot, UFOs, dragons, chimera, men on Mars, goblins, Cthulhu .... are religious?

Hah, looks like I wasn't alone then. I too used to believe Cthulhu was an urban legend (along the lines of the Slenderman and Zalgo) too. I only realised the truth of the matter (pop culture mutation of a character from a string of short stories) when I googled Yog-Sothoth.

[KittenAB]

I'll adress the actual point of the thread this evening, but I couldn't help but smile at this

Hah, looks like I wasn't alone then. I too used to believe Cthulhu was an urban legend (along the lines of the Slenderman and Zalgo) too. I only realised the truth of the matter (pop culture mutation of a character from a string of short stories) when I googled Yog-Sothoth.

You'd be amazed at how many people actually believe Cthulhu is real even today. Yeah, I'm a huge Lovecraft fan, but he's a fiction writer. There are people who think there's even a real Necronomicon.

[KittenAB]

[Guest diaperboykcmo]

^{@Kittneab, if that's what you believe in, if you think bigfoot is a higher power for you! Then go for it, that's what makes America so great. Freedom of religion, and for the most part we don't get killed over our beliefs. Unlike some backwards countrys}

^{That's why I say, religion is a belief, I can't prove it right or wrong. The good thing is, neither can you}

[Guest gnappies]

Devout Atheist here.

Religion just doesn't work for me whatever brand. It's just too far over the believable line for myself, makes no sense to me.

I have though no need to ridicule those who believe, or impress on them my views.

[KittenAB]

Devout Atheist here.

Religion just doesn't work for me whatever brand. It's just too far over the believable line for myself, makes no sense to me.

I have though no need to ridicule those who believe, or impress on them my views.

While this is an admirable stance, there have been many attacks on people who are atheist just for doing a simple advertisement of groups of organizations existing that will not require a "god card" at the door, so to speak. So, it's essentially allowing young folks who are forced into following the religion to know they are not alone when they doubt, but that message is being deliberately oppressed while you see many adverts and such blatantly pushing religious views into our faces. It's a double standard. So while it's not your particular way of living, like all groups, there are those who are different than yours. I am one of those that would prefer a civil discussion on science, but such discussions are often interrupted by religious zealots spouting "that's not in the bible" or some other such nonsense which does not belong.

Notice the title here, for instance, it simply states a polite warning that your religious views may be put into question if you participate, yet there is still one zealot who just can't help themselves. An atheist sees a title of "bible discussion" and typically just stays out of it. Typically, I said, because there are often those who do have to butt in there as well. But the worst is when they say "the decline of civilization is because of ...." yet forget, there is no real decline, there is actually a global incline to the quality of life and scientific advances that make life not only tolerable, but highly appealing.

However, if a non-religious zealot points out the Dark Ages, I cannot disagree, that did happen and it was a christian-muslim oppressed time period, in which reading anything would result in stoning or burning to death. The modern ones are not all bad, and many can see the flaws with the zealots, the muslim moderates have very vocally said they do not agree with their zealots so much I have lost count. LOL

The interesting aspect is how the majority of one religious view the word "religious" to mean only their religion, yet there are even religious atheists. Buddhism is another religious belief without a defined "god" as well, and some atheists ascribe to that belief. Others are like me, just hopeful that death isn't just the end of life. Some believe that all religious ideas are bad and somehow a detriment to society. Historically though, the only ones that have demonstrated a negative impact on society are organized religions.

[KittenAB]

^{@Kittneab, if that's what you believe in, if you think bigfoot is a higher power for you! Then go for it, that's what makes America so great. Freedom of religion, and for the most part we don't get killed over our beliefs. Unlike some backwards countrys}

^{That's why I say, religion is a belief, I can't prove it right or wrong. The good thing is, neither can you}

While you so sound rather civil in this, I can't help but suspect ulterior motives here. You seem a bit bipolar to me at this point so I will attempt to keep this discussion going.

There are many of the christian religions (there are a LOT of christian religions actually) who do actually want us to kill people for their beliefs and inconsequential actions (such as being gay or any way different). This is why people are opening the discussion so much right now. Online people are more open about who they are, the lack of fear of prosecution for being different, so they betray their true selves far more clearly than in real life. This is a testament to how oppressed our cultures have been by the religious majority. The worst thing to fear is your fellow species.

The irony is that I don't say hatred itself is a bad thing, just using it to justify physical actions against people is pure evil in any form and for any justification. The protesting of Westboro for instance, fine, but the outright attacks on gay people is wrong and evil. That is the difference between zealots and others though. Zealots want freedom ... as long as it abides by their limited world views and superstitions. Others want freedom for everyone because they know, logically, that oppression of one will lead to oppression of others, and there is no denying that. Society has rules, often as laws, and those laws prevent actions from harming others. Our laws in the US are suppose to only deal with that aspect, to protect everyone from everyone else, they are not suppose to, in any way, control what is said or printed.

[drynot]

Note: I think they are still fine tuning the big bang theory...

I completely disagree.....The Big Bang Theory is a wonderful program in no need of fine tuning

[KittenAB]

I completely disagree.....The Big Bang Theory is a wonderful program in no need of fine tuning

Touche.

I do love that show, even reruns make me laugh.

[redneck diaper boy]

Secular Humanism is a religion. So sayeth the Supreme Court! Could the Court be wrong?

[KittenAB]

Secular Humanism is a religion. So sayeth the Supreme Court! Could the Court be wrong?

Um ... are you just trolling now? Supreme court has ruled this, and even if it had that does not make it truth. That's like saying since you don't believe in leprechauns, you're religion is "Secular Leprechaunism." It defies logic and linguistics. A lack of belief is not a belief.

[Guest diaperboykcmo]

I truley am Bipolar! I still believe in freedom of religion, I'm no bible thumper, but I do believe in the man upstairs. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, as well as their own beliefs! I guess they're one in the same

[Alexandra]

Um ... are you just trolling now? Supreme court has ruled this, and even if it had that does not make it truth. That's like saying since you don't believe in leprechauns, you're religion is "Secular Leprechaunism." It defies logic and linguistics. A lack of belief is not a belief.

now, when hasn't he been trolling. and your right a lack belief isn't a belief but it is a methos

[redneck diaper boy]

Um ... are you just trolling now? Supreme court has ruled this, and even if it had that does not make it truth. That's like saying since you don't believe in leprechauns, you're religion is "Secular Leprechaunism." It defies logic and linguistics. A lack of belief is not a belief.

I disagree with the Supreme Court on many issues: 1 Brown vs. Board of Education 2 Roe Vs Wade, 3 Miller Vs US, 4Dred Scott, 5. Hazelwood, 6.Texas Vs Johnson

[KittenAB]

I disagree with the Supreme Court on many issues: 1 Brown vs. Board of Education 2 Roe Vs Wade, 3 Miller Vs US, 4Dred Scott, 5. Hazelwood, 6.Texas Vs Johnson

That is your right. We can disagree with our government's actions, thus the entire purpose of free speech.

[KittenAB]

For those crying "don't shove atheism in our faces" should really watch this:

[redneck diaper boy]

For those crying "don't shove atheism in our faces" should really watch this:

One of the many things, that I have apologized to God for was calling myself an atheist in front of a clergyman. I did if for two reasons. I wanted away from the church and I wanted my parents to leave me alone with regard to religion. At that time in my life, i never thought about the end of my life. I think about the end now!

[Diapered Jason]

One of the many things, that I have apologized to God for was calling myself an atheist in front of a clergyman. I did if for two reasons. I wanted away from the church and I wanted my parents to leave me alone with regard to religion. At that time in my life, i never thought about the end of my life. I think about the end now!

Um, I do not know what you want me to think from this argument. It is one thing to be afraid of death, but to accept a lie to calm that fear somehow makes you better or more wiser than us. At least, that is what I got from your post.

Look, we do not know what happens to us after we die, but I think about it often. Though I am curious, I fear it greatly, and it is something that is always on the back of my mind, because I realize it is probably a sleep that you do not wake up from.

There is one fundamental thing I can prove, and that is there is no outside effect on our existence by some supernatural being on a higher plain of existence (i.e. god does not control events or individuals). The issue is the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics (a fundamental law) states that when dealing with physics at atomistic levels, we cannot determine the behavior objectively like you would Newtonian mechanics (F=MA); however, we can determine the probability of occurrence. What most people do not know is Newtonian mechanics is actually an estimate (a very good estimate), while if we follow the principle of least action, quantum mechanics is the fundamental law governing motion that pretty much simplifies to Newtonian mechanics at large enough particle sizes. Sparing the mathematical interpretation, one of the realizations of this is everything is probabilistic in nature. Therefore, if god does exist, he is merely rolling a dice for you.

[wetman]

...

There is one fundamental thing I can prove, and that is there is no outside effect on our existence by some supernatural being on a higher plain of existence (i.e. god does not control events or individuals). The issue is the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics (a fundamental law) states that when dealing with physics at atomistic levels, we cannot determine the behavior objectively like you would Newtonian mechanics (F=MA); however, we can determine the probability of occurrence. What most people do not know is Newtonian mechanics is actually an estimate (a very good estimate), while if we follow the principle of least action, quantum mechanics is the fundamental law governing motion that pretty much simplifies to Newtonian mechanics at large enough particle sizes. Sparing the mathematical interpretation, one of the realizations of this is everything is probabilistic in nature. Therefore, if god does exist, he is merely rolling a dice for you.

If I'd be a believer*, my argument would now be that you can't prove it. Because: 1.) It isn't in the bible** 2.)It's not true and 3.)God made it look like that to confuse the unbelievers.

Can't argue with that.

*Which I'm not, so don't waste time flaming.

I just find it somewhat cute that the people most removed from the original religion seem to be the fiercest defenders. Ever found an Ursuline nun foaming at the mouth having an argument with an uunbeliever?

Point.

**Something that is in the bible (Genesis, the christian defenders will surely spot the place easily) and that I never understood: Where exactly roughly did Cain's wife come from?

[Diapered Jason]

If I'd be a believer*, my argument would now be that you can't prove it. Because: 1.) It isn't in the bible** 2.)It's not true and 3.)God made it look like that to confuse the unbelievers.

Can't argue with that.

*Which I'm not, so don't waste time flaming.

I just find it somewhat cute that the people most removed from the original religion seem to be the fiercest defenders. Ever found an Ursuline nun foaming at the mouth having an argument with an uunbeliever?

Point.

**Something that is in the bible (Genesis, the christian defenders will surely spot the place easily) and that I never understood: Where exactly roughly did Cain's wife come from?

Actually, not even Einstein could prove this wrong and that is not the argument religious fundamentalists use since you can't really deny it. Essentially what they do instead is attempt to use quantum mechanics to actually justify their beliefs. If you do a Google search for quantum mechanics and god, you will find a series of articles saying that while god may roll dice, he may load the dice to land on a certain number (sort of like cheating). The issue of course with this argument is that would indicate a change in probability, which is not possible.

Now, one could easily rip apart the Christian religion simply by noting it is a forgery of ancient Egyptian religion. The two religions are very similar.

Another way we can debunk pretty much any belief in the supernatural is by introducing neurology. If we examine the portions of the brains that are used during religious behaviors, you will see the brain in a highly emotional state. In other words, the portions of the brain that are responsible for art and music (the right side of the brain) are the same portions responsible for religious beliefs; however, it should be added unique connections in the brain between the cerebral cortex, the hypothalamus, and the limbic structures, which are responsible for anxiety as well as functions such as knowing when you are tired and hungry, are also used during religious behaviors. Judging by some previous posts, anxiety plays a big role in religious behaviors which points to the necessity of faith for some people, but be aware this is part of the creation side of your brain and is an emotional state.

[wetman]

Jason, did you read the Neanderthal-trilogy by Robert Sawyer? SciFi, but never mind; similar conclusion.

Christianity based on Egyptian religion? Aren't you a bit south there? I seem to recall something more Persian: The early Zoroastrian faith having a big impact on all the 'Abramic' monotheist (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) beliefs. Do correct me if I err.

[belinda_sue_fox]

There is one fundamental thing I can prove, and that is there is no outside effect on our existence by some supernatural being on a higher plain of existence (i.e. god does not control events or individuals). The issue is the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics (a fundamental law) states that when dealing with physics at atomistic levels, we cannot determine the behavior objectively like you would Newtonian mechanics (F=MA); however, we can determine the probability of occurrence. What most people do not know is Newtonian mechanics is actually an estimate (a very good estimate), while if we follow the principle of least action, quantum mechanics is the fundamental law governing motion that pretty much simplifies to Newtonian mechanics at large enough particle sizes. Sparing the mathematical interpretation, one of the realizations of this is everything is probabilistic in nature. Therefore, if god does exist, he is merely rolling a dice for you.

If that is a proof I'm a GOD to a colony of little teapots on mars.

[Diapered Jason]

Jason, did you read the Neanderthal-trilogy by Robert Sawyer? SciFi, but never mind; similar conclusion.

Christianity based on Egyptian religion? Aren't you a bit south there? I seem to recall something more Persian: The early Zoroastrian faith having a big impact on all the 'Abramic' monotheist (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) beliefs. Do correct me if I err.

No, I have never heard of the Neanderthal-trilogy, I was just explaining some results from Dr. David Linden's investigation.

You are right if you compare Jesus with Mithra (born on Dec. 25th, preformed miracles, resurrected on the third day, known as the savior, etc.), but I will point out Egyptians have a book of the dead, that describes the Egyptian god Horus who was born to a virgin mother and is the son of the god Osiris. He also has a similar story to Jesus in that he was baptized in a river, got confused in the desert, healed the sick and of course blind, walked on water, had 12 disciples, and was also crucified then later thought to have been resurrected. Same story.