Anyone Still Support Obama After Ndaa?

[sarah_ab]

so if you are a middleaged liberal you are heartless and brainless? OHHHHHH something to aspire too!!!

btw the pictures of newt confirmed what i always had a thought aobut.. he just looks like a big bobo the clown punching blow up thing.... i mean not obviously outright looks exactly like... but i see him and his smile, and it reminds me of the bobo the clown punching thing....

I promise when I am president there will not JUST be a dog in the white house, but a kitty, and a bunny too.... and a chinchilla, and a hedgehog.. and a bunch of other things.. I will state they are my 'therpay' pets, and due to the stress of being the best president ever, i must have one with me at all times... then when i meet with head of states from other countrys, we'll have a converastion starter... a cute little hedgehog, or guinea pig (as long as its not someone from a country where they eat them!)....

[Diapered Jason]

Liberalism is why California is broke. I lived there 19 years and the amount the state spends on illegals is high. And welfare. They just love to give money away.

This is pretty easy to counter. While you can go on and on about how California's budget became unbalanced or how it was affected by the recession, there is only one reason why they were unable to raise taxes thus becoming broke. Prop 13 put a cap of 1% on property taxes and prevents the raising of any state revenue without a two-thirds majority by each house of legislature and a two-thirds majority by the people for any local taxes. Of course, all tax raising measures were shot down. This is exactly what I was referring to in my previous post with foolish conversative ideas of not raising taxes ever. It does not make any sense, especially when you need to balance the budget. You can only make so many cuts before you amputate something.

Also, Happy Birthday Diaper Mike!

[KittenAB]

First, Ron Paul's voting record is "golden" ... not according to just his supporters but it's why no one can get any real dirt on him. This is why I support him myself, I prize honesty over any other quality in humans and his is almost impeccable. Also, we control the state governments, in spite of what people think, we do not however have any control of the federal government, at least not enough to call control. So, "state's rights" are our rights, and as it should be, the states should be the ones to decide many of the laws and such not the federal government.

Back to the topic at hand, I never trusted Obama, the NDAA is just one thing that angers me about him, he also supports SOPA in voting but says he doesn't in interviews. I'm sick of dishonest politicians, I have been for a long time.

[hidden]

I never supported Obama. Didn't like Palen either. Ended up voting for Nater.

The new republican candidates make it hard to be republican.

[Leilin]

So, "state's rights" are our rights, and as it should be, the states should be the ones to decide many of the laws and such not the federal government.

No. They really aren't.

Don't believe me?

Find one case in which the Supreme court has heard the states fighting AGAINST an infringement on individual rights.

Paul's record may be "Golden" to you, and I won't fault you your political leanings, but facts are facts and only somebody keenly unaware of the meaning of the word and the facts of his voting record calls him a Libertarian. He is an anti-federalist, plain and simple.

State's rights are not "our" rights any more than bills which pass in states to infringe the rights of a minority, such as Prop 8 in California, are bills which uphold "our" rights. A legislature should not be a vehicle for a tyranny of the majority and such is PRECISELY the reason why supreme courts were created.

How do you figure Obama supports SOPA "in voting?" The president doesn't vote for bills and that one never reached his desk.

[KittenAB]

No. They really aren't.

Don't believe me?

Find one case in which the Supreme court has heard the states fighting AGAINST an infringement on individual rights.

Paul's record may be "Golden" to you, and I won't fault you your political leanings, but facts are facts and only somebody keenly unaware of the meaning of the word and the facts of his voting record calls him a Libertarian. He is an anti-federalist, plain and simple.

State's rights are not "our" rights any more than bills which pass in states to infringe the rights of a minority, such as Prop 8 in California, are bills which uphold "our" rights. A legislature should not be a vehicle for a tyranny of the majority and such is PRECISELY the reason why supreme courts were created.

How do you figure Obama supports SOPA "in voting?" The president doesn't vote for bills and that one never reached his desk.

I never claimed he was Libertarian, as all labels are for idiots not for real humans. Obama got support from the companies pushing SOPA, end of story.Also, if you think the federal government is looking out for your rights, good luck there. It's simply not. You can change the federal government .. but that takes many generations of voters. State governments can be changed rather quickly, so yeah, their rights are your rights. It's not the state's fault if you don't vote for politicians based on their actions. Campaign slogans are the second worst possible method of choosing who you vote for, the worst method is choosing by party or label.

[sarah_ab]

idiot is a label...

[Diapered Jason]

idiot is a label...

Lol, reality and other falsehoods.

[Leilin]

Obama got support from the companies pushing SOPA, end of story.

Um. You realize that Obama also got support from companies that are pushing AGAINST SOPA, right? Your statements are not making sense. Also, you moved the goalposts, completely ignoring the fact that your FIRST statement was 100 percent incorrect. For those of you who are interested in logic, Kitten just used the logical fallacy known as "appeal to authority," when something else is bad because someone else disagrees with it, good because someone else agrees with it, or the inverse of either, with a bit of "tu quoque" (he's wrong because his supporter is wrong) thrown in.

Also, I'd love to see the facts behind your statements.The biggest SOPA donors stopped donating to Obama because he does not support SOPA (See link)

http://www.deadline....piracy-stand%2F

Furthermore, your beloved Ron Paul received 5 times as much in the way of donations from groups that support SOPA as he did from groups that oppose SOPA. By your silly logic, you'll have to pick a different candidate. "End of story," right?

http://maplight.org/...l-contributions

You basically have nothing to stand on with your statements, in other words. I'll wait for your next attempt to move the goalposts.

I love that you pass up the fact that the rights of State Governments are completely unequal to individual rights by rationalizing that an appeal to the majority MAKES them your rights. You don't really get what a tyranny of the majority is, do you?

This is approaching sophistry, so I'll stop bothering to respond unless you decide to provide some facts, Kitten. I'm honestly not sure if you're just trying to troll this thread.

[Baby Brian]

True Obama hasn't lived up to all of his promises, and has approved methods/laws we don't approve of in order to survive in a political environment we don't understand. But given our upcoming choice of Obama vs Romney (or Gingrich), I would DEFINITELY vote for Obama again. If you can't think in terms of who's right or wrong to vote for then at least think who's the lesser of the two evils here. It a no brainer really, you may not like Obama but you'll end up regretting the other guy even more.

[BoTox]

Obama has done more to make this country nose dive than any president in living memory and I survived Carter. People that will not work do not deserve assistance. Ben Franklin said it best, that he did good to the poor not by making them comfortable in their poverty but by leading or driving them out of it.

I know people, relatives even, that are not looking for a job because they have beer money enough working under the table and collecting 2 years of unemployment.

With nearly half the US population receiving more from government than they pay, we are reaching a tipping point where we may not return. This is not the country the founders envisioned and certainly has taken a severe turn away from personal freedom and liberty. When 1/3 of my pay goes to finance things I do not support under penalty of inprisonment, that is a crime.

I'm tired of a president denying domestic energy production. I'm tired of a president blowing $500,000,000,000 on a pet solar (Solyndra) project that disipated all the money. I'm tired of a president playing the race card at the drop of a hat. I'm tired of a president that let guns escape into Mexico, allowed them to be used to kill Americans and THEN say gun laws are too lax! I'm tired of a president that studied the constitution and has done as much or more to circumvent it as any dictator in a 3rd world country.

This president has had the quickest rise to power, chosen by the media, never having to stand on a record, which he has scant little of. He talks as if we should be tightening our belts yet they spend money like it isn't theirs, it is ours!

I will not support him. I will do everything in my power to see that he is not reelected and pray he is a one term president.

[Alexandra]

Obama has done more to make this country nose dive than any president in living memory and I survived Carter. People that will not work do not deserve assistance. Ben Franklin said it best, that he did good to the poor not by making them comfortable in their poverty but by leading or driving them out of it.

I know people, relatives even, that are not looking for a job because they have beer money enough working under the table and collecting 2 years of unemployment.

With nearly half the US population receiving more from government than they pay, we are reaching a tipping point where we may not return. This is not the country the founders envisioned and certainly has taken a severe turn away from personal freedom and liberty. When 1/3 of my pay goes to finance things I do not support under penalty of inprisonment, that is a crime.

I'm tired of a president denying domestic energy production. I'm tired of a president blowing $500,000,000,000 on a pet solar (Solyndra) project that disipated all the money. I'm tired of a president playing the race card at the drop of a hat. I'm tired of a president that let guns escape into Mexico, allowed them to be used to kill Americans and THEN say gun laws are too lax! I'm tired of a president that studied the constitution and has done as much or more to circumvent it as any dictator in a 3rd world country.

This president has had the quickest rise to power, chosen by the media, never having to stand on a record, which he has scant little of. He talks as if we should be tightening our belts yet they spend money like it isn't theirs, it is ours!

I will not support him. I will do everything in my power to see that he is not reelected and pray he is a one term president.

First of all don't you think that your statement is more than a little hyperbolic, secondly your being alteristic people who need a helping hand should be given one (ever heard the term pay it forward if not then watch the movie) as for people living off unempolyment a. correct me if I'm wrong but that existed well before Obama and b. thats a problem with the people of America not the government why have we become a lazy slobish and to be honest ignorent people because we choose to be. third, how can you say you want domestic energy production but then rant about grants to alternate fuel sorce production that could safely be made domestically. fourth, I've never heard Obama use his race to any advantage, only other people who want to see a race issue find a race issue if you understand my meaning. fifth, did Obama personally give guns to mexico I don't recall that and the fact that his is for tighter gun control laws proves how false your statement is. sixth, your really comparing Obama to a dictatior I don't even want to explain how ignorant and wrong that statement is but I will say this people who would refuse to help the less fortunate, who would as you so colorfully put it force people to work or basically die those are traits of a dictators, I doubt vary seriously you can name one real thing obama has done that is even remotely close to totalitaren. seventh, what the hell does "quickest rise to power" even mean; how has the media supported him anymore than any other president; and he has a record but just like your personal information and everyone else's its sealed from the general public for the simply reason of diplomatic right to privacy. eight, they are us so whats theres is ours and whats ours is theres why has america forgotten that in a republic the government is made by the people to serve the people. finally its well within your rights to not support Obama but make sure its for the right reasons and your not just being a sheep to bs like fox news or political talk radio.

[Alexandra]

First, Ron Paul's voting record is "golden" ... not according to just his supporters but it's why no one can get any real dirt on him. This is why I support him myself, I prize honesty over any other quality in humans and his is almost impeccable. Also, we control the state governments, in spite of what people think, we do not however have any control of the federal government, at least not enough to call control. So, "state's rights" are our rights, and as it should be, the states should be the ones to decide many of the laws and such not the federal government.

Back to the topic at hand, I never trusted Obama, the NDAA is just one thing that angers me about him, he also supports SOPA in voting but says he doesn't in interviews. I'm sick of dishonest politicians, I have been for a long time.

really the states should have the power, check your history books because we tryed that once already and it ended pretty miserably it was called the articals of confederation

[Diapered Jason]

I know people, relatives even, that are not looking for a job because they have beer money enough working under the table and collecting 2 years of unemployment.

I'm tired of a president denying domestic energy production. I'm tired of a president blowing $500,000,000,000 on a pet solar (Solyndra) project that disipated all the money. I'm tired of a president playing the race card at the drop of a hat. I'm tired of a president that let guns escape into Mexico, allowed them to be used to kill Americans and THEN say gun laws are too lax! I'm tired of a president that studied the constitution and has done as much or more to circumvent it as any dictator in a 3rd world country.

The statements touted in this post are the usual rhetoric that makes up the misconceptions that Republicans (I mean the politicians themselves) have of Obama. This is along the same lines as the class warfare crap and so on and so forth that is perpetuated. The fact of the matter is $500 billion is almost equal to all discretionary spending in the US federal budget. What really took place was a federal loan of $535 million to Solyndra. In addition, domestic energy production has actually been increasing. We are now tapping into the natural gas reserves across the U.S. as well as the oil reserves in North Dakota. The good news is the natural gas companies recently found alternatives to the whole fracking process, which has done much damage since the corrosion inhibitors used in the process as well as the natural gas were leeching into the ground water (That's good news, so you probably would not have seen it on the news, lol). As for the guns in Mexico, I will wait for the results from the investigation to pass judgement. Lastly, do you have any idea how stressful it is to be on unemployment. This idea that being on unemployment is fun and everyone quits looking for a job while receiving unemployment benefits is a myth. There may be a few lazy Americans who slack off when recieving unemployment, but I have not seen any significant number of people doing this. It is not fun being poor. No ones wants to be there, and the unemployment benefits do not last forever. Also keep in mind, the extended unemployment benefits we now see under Obama's administration is a temporary policy, an adaptation to the current economy. I doubt it will remain that long.

[redneck diaper boy]

Obama has done more to make this country nose dive than any president in living memory and I survived Carter. People that will not work do not deserve assistance. Ben Franklin said it best, that he did good to the poor not by making them comfortable in their poverty but by leading or driving them out of it.

I know people, relatives even, that are not looking for a job because they have beer money enough working under the table and collecting 2 years of unemployment.

With nearly half the US population receiving more from government than they pay, we are reaching a tipping point where we may not return. This is not the country the founders envisioned and certainly has taken a severe turn away from personal freedom and liberty. When 1/3 of my pay goes to finance things I do not support under penalty of inprisonment, that is a crime.

I'm tired of a president denying domestic energy production. I'm tired of a president blowing $500,000,000,000 on a pet solar (Solyndra) project that disipated all the money. I'm tired of a president playing the race card at the drop of a hat. I'm tired of a president that let guns escape into Mexico, allowed them to be used to kill Americans and THEN say gun laws are too lax! I'm tired of a president that studied the constitution and has done as much or more to circumvent it as any dictator in a 3rd world country.

This president has had the quickest rise to power, chosen by the media, never having to stand on a record, which he has scant little of. He talks as if we should be tightening our belts yet they spend money like it isn't theirs, it is ours!

I will not support him. I will do everything in my power to see that he is not reelected and pray he is a one term president.

I agree with you. Some of the people here don't remember Carter. It took Reagan to clean up the Carter mess. I remember the hostages in Iran. Now we have hostages in Egypt! History has a way of repeating itself if it is ignored.

[Alexandra]

I agree with you. Some of the people here don't remember Carter. It took Reagan to clean up the Carter mess. I remember the hostages in Iran. Now we have hostages in Egypt! History has a way of repeating itself if it is ignored.

theres alot I could say to that but for the purpose of decorum I'll just ask what exactly was ignored to make history "repeat" it's self?

[sarah_ab]

well we voted bush in for a second term didn't we?> lol..... ok come on just a little brevity to lighten the mood....

[Diapered Jason]

I agree with you. Some of the people here don't remember Carter. It took Reagan to clean up the Carter mess. I remember the hostages in Iran. Now we have hostages in Egypt! History has a way of repeating itself if it is ignored.

That's classic. While I do not have much of an opinion of Jimmy Carter, I do believe Ronald Reagan is one of the worst presidents in our entire history. He threw the world into chaos with his doctrine. He fractured our nation's budget and began the uptake in debt. He removed regulations that prevented the banks from growing to the size they are now. He did not give a shit about the common worker. It is no surprise that the wealth inequality gap we see now began its rise under his administration. He started the whole war on drugs issue that has costed this country billions. Lastly, who could forget the Iran-contra scandal.

[Alexandra]

That's classic. While I do not have much of an opinion of Jimmy Carter, I do believe Ronald Reagan is one of the worst presidents in our entire history. He threw the world into chaos with his doctrine. He fractured our nation's budget and began the uptake in debt. He removed regulations that prevented the banks from growing to the size they are now. He did not give a shit about the common worker. It is no surprise that the wealth inequality gap we see now began its rise under his administration. He started the whole war on drugs issue that has costed this country billions. Lastly, who could forget the Iran-contra scandal.

I whole heartly agree, though you forgot to mention how much he did to set back women's rights

[Guest Sasha]

One American citizen, associated with terror or not, is one too many. Just like the PATRIOT ACT. This eliminates due process. This is ILLEGAL. If the justices have a brain in their heads they will shred this bill.

Anyone who would trade an ounce of liberty for an ounce of security deserves neither.

[Leilin]

One American citizen, associated with terror or not, is one too many. Just like the PATRIOT ACT. This eliminates due process. This is ILLEGAL. If the justices have a brain in their heads they will shred this bill.

Anyone who would trade an ounce of liberty for an ounce of security deserves neither.

The guy renounced his citizenship quite vocally. While he hadn't done much on paper I'm not sure this is like picking a random guy off of the street and murdering him for governmental purposes. If anything, it follows a precedent of treating people who moved to the other side of a war as enemy combatants in WWI and WWII, mixed with precedents set with the War on Terror by the previous administration (which I vehemently disagree with).

That being said, I agree with your sentiment. Too bad there's only one politician in the entire lineup who's against it, and he's something of a fake in other regards. The other conservatives who are protesting it would be a lot more believable if they hadn't been calling for the death penalty for the "American Taliban idiot before they even knew the facts of the case and fighting to keep Guantanamo Bay open.

Romney was for it.

Gingrich was for it.

Santorum was for it.

Anybody left? Ron Paul is against it but he's equally for allowing states to violate individual rights, so *shrug* if you're for him, that's cool, but I find Obama to be significantly the lesser evil.

[Alexandra]

One American citizen, associated with terror or not, is one too many. Just like the PATRIOT ACT. This eliminates due process. This is ILLEGAL. If the justices have a brain in their heads they will shred this bill.

Anyone who would trade an ounce of liberty for an ounce of security deserves neither.

Possibly but are you going off of what you've heard or have you actually read the act, and thats a great qoute one of my own favorits but least you forget another qoute from good old Ben "

Trouble springs from idleness, and grievous toil from needless ease."

[Diapered Jason]

Omg, it looks like Rick Santorum may have a chance of winning the Republican nominee (Thanks to Dan Savage, I laugh everytime I think of him, lol). This race gets more interesting every day despite the fact that no one really cares anymore, except the very far right I am guessing. There has not been much of a voter turn out for the recent caucuses. Perhaps maybe that is the reason Rick Santorum has been winning. Either that or the contraception issue, which was blown way out of proportion. While, I do not like any of the Republican candidates, Rick Santorum is probably the greater of two evils if you compare him to Mitt Romney. Rick Santorum has absolutely no electablity.

[KittenAB]

Omg, it looks like Rick Santorum may have a chance of winning the Republican nominee (Thanks to Dan Savage, I laugh everytime I think of him, lol).  This race gets more interesting every day despite the fact that no one really cares anymore, except the very far right I am guessing.  There has not been much of a voter turn out for the recent caucuses.  Perhaps maybe that is the reason Rick Santorum has been winning.  Either that or the contraception issue, which was blown way out of proportion.  While, I do not like any of the Republican candidates, Rick Santorum is probably the greater of two evils if you compare him to Mitt Romney.  Rick Santorum has absolutely no electablity.

If Rick wins the Republican endorsement, then we're completely screwed. Lesser of two evils is still choosing evil. The voters have a chance to change things, for better or worse, we know we've been picking lesser of two evils for so long and we need to stop allowing them to give us only those choices.

[KittenAB]

Leilin, would you rather the federal government violate our rights, all our rights? Seriously, we have more control of the state government if we push it, but we have almost no control of the federal government. So explain why allowing the states to have individual laws is so horrible compared to what we have now?