Close To Incontinence With A Catheter

[Bettypooh]

nappyboymids, if it's not too much to ask could you (or someone else over there) check into the laws to see if such a device could be legally posted to the US and elsewhere through regular mail? That would reduce the cost for a lot of us I wouldn't want anyone to get into trouble for shipping something they were not supposed to That is usually more a function of the sender Country's laws than the receivers which is why I'm asking

More fuel for thought on the home-made 'bead' idea: glass and ceramic beads such as are used in making jewelry are available in many sizes (diameters and shapes) and could be safely boiled for sanitizing, another option perhaps?

Bettypooh

[wetman]

nappyboymids, if it's not too much to ask could you (or someone else over there) check into the laws to see if such a device could be legally posted to the US and elsewhere through regular mail? That would reduce the cost for a lot of us I wouldn't want anyone to get into trouble for shipping something they were not supposed to

...

Bettypooh,

without being a lawyer, I bet that no one would even remotely guess what exactly they were looking at; X-ray or plain sight. For all practical purposes it might be a set of model dumbbells for a circus diorama, a swivel connector for a pressure washer or a strangely shaped piece of jewellery.

As long as it doesn't say medical device on it and it's not sent from a medical company, there's no telling.

I think...

[Bettypooh]

Some stainless steel is 'martensitic', or magnetic, though most common stainless alloys aren't. Wetman, you're probably right That coming from someone who has done a fair amount of surreptitious shipping in their past life Back then it was pretty easy; things are different now and I wouldn't try it the way I did back then I'm long out of that 'business' forever anyway It might get some questions but nobody would know what it was if they looked which they usually don't unless you give them a reason to

Can't wait till Friday to see the news!

Bettypooh

[Creepymouse]

Yeah, you mostly have to worry about liquids, they could be explosive, flammable, bodily fluids, poisons, or any one of a number of shipping-prohibited substances, where a piece of stainless steel in just about any configuration is probably fine. If necessary on customs information, call it a 'tool' and leave it at that.

[nappyboymids]

[sOME EXPLICIT DETAILS HERE - READ AT YOUR OWN RISK!]

OK, so here's an update - good news and bad news ...

Good news: the catheter device arrived this morning and is beautifully made, exactly to the dimensions I specified. For those of you interested, it came from www.steelpleasures.co.uk and cost £55 - from order to arrival took six days and the process was easy, discreet and efficient. See the attached pics!

Preliminary insertion was fine - not painful anywhere and once past the head of the penis (roughly) couldn't be felt at all . As suggested in another post, I tied fishing line around the end bulb to help removal.

Now the bad news: so far it hasn't worked. I encountered the following problems - so if anyone has thoughts comment away! The dimensions of the thing don't seem to be right. Firstly the straight section seems to be too long and won't go around the bend in the urethra. I followed the video and inserted straight end first, so possibly this may work better working the other way around, but I haven't tried this yet. In order to help move the device along the urethra I inserted an 18fr foley cath after it to act as a 'pusher'. Well, obviously there was resistance because of the bend in the urethra, but what was really interesting was that the cath went straight past the bulb and could be inserted pretty much as normal. Which suggests that the urethra is far 'stretchier' than you might expect - so despite the 12mm bulbs of the original device sounding massive and unrealistic, perhaps they are necessary - in effect I had a 24fr bulb *and* an 18fr cath in the same place with no difficulty. The flexibility of the urethra implies that if the bulbs aren't so big the device could move either backwards or forwards unexpectedly.

Removal was pretty straight forward; I needed the fishing line. The only downside here is that the fishing is in effect quite sharp along the sides of the urethra because you need to pull it taut in order to get the device moving - I'm a bit worried about this as it might be possible to damage the sides of the urethra as you remove the device.

So ... what I wonder now is: [a] might the device work better inserted the other way (bent end first); do the dimensions need to be different - a shorter tube and larger bulbs; [c] can the removal be made less risky?

Any thoughts? It's been an interesting day!

[Creepymouse]

I'm wondering if an additive free (no mint flavoring) glide floss would be better than the fishing line. It's still plastic and quite strong.

If you watch him, and believe the video to be genuine, he worked the stent in with external manipulation, no pusher required. I don't know how likely that is to work, but it's quite likely a solid object would be at least palpable in the urethra. I also wonder if it would be possible to press a very narrow cath THROUGH the device, and inflate the bulb inside to act as resistance to pull it out. Interesting.

I don't have the cash to play with at the moment, but perhaps after some trial and error we'll figure it out!

EDIT: I just remembered. If you look at a urethral sound, most 'male' versions have a long straight section and a slight bend, much like the bend at the short end of the device you have. That end goes through the prostate and into the bladder on a sound, so it seems likely that is how the device should work as well.

[diapertime42]

so did you get it to the external sphincter or did it stop before then? I wonder if the bend is to sharp of an angle...

[nappyboymids]

No, it didn't get that far. At some point this week I'll try using it the other way around, i.e. bent end first and see if that makes a difference.

There's been some pain peeing since I took the device out but I'm 99% sure that's due to the thread rather than the device - I think the lesson there is that a very fine thread is no good since by definition it has an edge; I never have that problem with a conventional cath. So there's another little issue to think about ...

[ListeningToTunes]

Would a thicker removal cord work better? Maybe .5 to 1mm (25- to 50-gauge)? Or if that gauge of a cord would be problematic while in place (I have no experience with this at present so just guessing), what about threading the cord through an intermittent cath and removing both simultaneously?

Thanks for posting about that site. I have an idea for something fairly similar to what you're doing, and having it in stainless steel would be especially good. I wonder if they'd be able to build in a small loop at or just inside the "downstream" end that you could attach a removal cord to, that (of course) won't be abrasive and cause the cord to break.

[Bettypooh]

How did you attach the removal thread? If it was outside, that may have caused a 'bump' bringing irritation. Is it possible to attach it by going through the inside? With mono-filament fishing line you should be able to melt the upper end to a large enough blob to catch while not making it so big that it impairs insertion While it's not the case here, my best friend (RIP) had a urethra like a spaghetti noodle scrunched up badly. Surgeons clipped it to a proper length and he could finally pee normally after that. They discovered it after being unable to cath him for a planned surgery Just sharing some thoughts....still miss my friend a lot

Bettypooh

[rick50]

I can understand what you mean about the retrieval cord. Its effectively pulling round a bend and will act a bit like a cheese-wire, cutting into the soft tissues if you are not careful. I guess the issue could be how much of a tug it needs to pop it out of the bladder sphincter and then get it past the prostate on the way out.

I chatted to Austmo some time ago when he posted the video. Like I say, it was a while ago so I can't remember exactly what he said, but I got the impression he only tried it a couple or so times before removing the cord for good. I've not heard anything lately so no idea how he is getting on with it. Hope this helps.

[diapertime42]

No, it didn't get that far. At some point this week I'll try using it the other way around, i.e. bent end first and see if that makes a difference.

There's been some pain peeing since I took the device out but I'm 99% sure that's due to the thread rather than the device - I think the lesson there is that a very fine thread is no good since by definition it has an edge; I never have that problem with a conventional cath. So there's another little issue to think about ...

Hey, just a side thought.... Someone here mentioned a while ago about using magnets.. Have you put a magnet near it to see if it has any magnetic attraction? Some stainless steel is, some isn't.

[nappyboymids]

In reverse order: it's not magnetic (and it was me who mentioned magnets originally), so that won't work.

Re 'thread' - the 'cheese wire' analogy is a good one. I don't know enough about human anatomy but the only place it has been painful is just inside the urethra. Perhaps that means there are no nerves with pain receptors (?) further in. There's been no blood so I know the thread hasn't cut anything, but the stinging sensation when I peed after the removal wasn't much fun, and took a few hours to die down too. So I don't think it's particularly the thread where it's attached to the device, it's pulling it taut and against the inside of the urethra that's the problem. Time for some thinking!

[InD]

With regards to the string. What I was thinking of doing if I get one of these made is have a hole drilled at inside edge of the second "bump" (the outside of the bladder). This would allow you to insert the retrieval line through the stent opening and not be dragged along the widest point of the bump. Instead the thread and knot would side on the small side of the bump.

Hope this makes sense, kinda hard to explain in words I suppose.

[Creepymouse]

I've read about urethra play before, and I remember somewhere seeing that it is indeed quite stretchy. On the other hand, the skin and tissue of the meatus (the 'head') is quite tough and not easy to stretch, therefore limiting the size of insertables.

Females, on the other hand, I've heard can sometimes work their way up to fingers and taper candles, though I wouldn't try THAT trick. XD

[wetman]

I've read about urethra play before, and I remember somewhere seeing that it is indeed quite stretchy. On the other hand, the skin and tissue of the meatus (the 'head') is quite tough and not easy to stretch, therefore limiting the size of insertables.

Females, on the other hand, I've heard can sometimes work their way up to fingers and taper candles, though I wouldn't try THAT trick. XD

Well, females and their 4cm urethra; if any of them would be into this they'd have it much easier, there's even ready made solutions out there.

But on the other hand, I can understand that the prospect of easy bladder infections puts someone off.

[rick50]

In reverse order: it's not magnetic (and it was me who mentioned magnets originally), so that won't work.

Re 'thread' - the 'cheese wire' analogy is a good one. I don't know enough about human anatomy but the only place it has been painful is just inside the urethra. Perhaps that means there are no nerves with pain receptors (?) further in. There's been no blood so I know the thread hasn't cut anything, but the stinging sensation when I peed after the removal wasn't much fun, and took a few hours to die down too. So I don't think it's particularly the thread where it's attached to the device, it's pulling it taut and against the inside of the urethra that's the problem. Time for some thinking!

Is there any chance you can post a video, or at least some pics of you inserting the stent, I'm sure it would be much appreciated?

[Creepymouse]

My thought on something softer but with enough strength to withdraw the stent is probably something of a 2-3mm diameter made from silicone or that thermoplastic goo they make some toys out of. Think the toys with tendrils all over the outside. They stretch up to 400% but they retain a soft squidgy texture. Just an idea. I know silicone can be made in a similar consistency.

[Loveable_guy]

Here is a suggestion that I don’t see posted. For insertion use a catheter just smaller that the inside diameter of the steel tube. Inert the cath inside of the device and inflate the balloon just enough to hold the cath securely anchored to the stent. Mark the amount of catheter remaining outside your body after it’s in place so you will know just how far is necessary when it’s time to remove. After the metal tube is in place deflate catheter and remove.

To remove reverse the above. I would still use dental floss as a backup but as mentioned the floss can cut into the tender skin.

I hope this is some help as I too am eager to see how this works out.

[ListeningToTunes]

My thought on something softer but with enough strength to withdraw the stent is probably something of a 2-3mm diameter made from silicone or that thermoplastic goo they make some toys out of. Think the toys with tendrils all over the outside. They stretch up to 400% but they retain a soft squidgy texture. Just an idea. I know silicone can be made in a similar consistency.

A cord coated with something like this would work. It'd be better if it didn't stretch--in fact I think it'd be really uncomfortable if it did.

Here is a suggestion that I don’t see posted. For insertion use a catheter just smaller that the inside diameter of the steel tube. Inert the cath inside of the device and inflate the balloon just enough to hold the cath securely anchored to the stent. Mark the amount of catheter remaining outside your body after it’s in place so you will know just how far is necessary when it’s time to remove. After the metal tube is in place deflate catheter and remove.

To remove reverse the above. I would still use dental floss as a backup but as mentioned the floss can cut into the tender skin.

I hope this is some help as I too am eager to see how this works out.

Interesting--because I've been thinking of something like this the past couple days. The idea I had is to have an applicator with a key of sorts on the end. The cross-section of the end of the channel on the stent would be wider in one dimension than the other. The applicator key would fit inside the channel, then you would twist it 90 degrees to connect the two together. Insert, twist to disconnect, remove applicator. The main challenge would be getting the key to mate up with the channel for removal. But if the channel end is wider vertically rather than laterally, they should line up fine--of course you orient the applicator correctly to begin with, and the key would be tapered but everything still rounded off of course. It shouldn't have to be that much wider than tall (we're doing this with stainless steel); height-to-width 1.5:1 would work, with some "play". Also, my idea for a stent would have it curved a bit (like the one above) so the stent itself getting twisted incorrectly shouldn't be a problem.

(And now I want one! )

[rick50]

Hi all. It looks like someone has done just this. Take at look at X-Tube, advanced search, search catheter, this week, and there's a guy there who has had a stent fitted making him nappy dependent. See what you think.

[Dubious]

i just marked "X-Tube, advanced search, search catheter", right clicked to search with google, clicked first link, ordered for newest first and voila

(i have never been on that site before)

i guess its the video about that guy that has a string out his penis, was kinda ewwie...

[Loveable_guy]

to assist others in finding the video,

http://www.xtube.com/watch.php?v=YdY82-G866

-

[InD]

He said it was from this week. Pretty simple to find : http://www.xtube.com/watch.php?v=YdY82-G866-

[nappyboymids]

OK, so here's an update on the situation - and there's been progress, though not of the type I was expecting.

Firstly, with the steel cath device I bought I've sort of given up on it - I tried two or three more times to get it in, but the shape just didn't seem to work for me. I got it quite a long way in, but I don't think it was far enough.

However, I've made rather more progress on the modified foley catheter people have been talking about for a while and right now I have one in, and I've been dribbling on and off for the last couple of hours without any problems.

So ... after pondering all these different issues about insertion, retrieval etc. here's what I did. If you want to try this yourself at home (!) you will need:

a foley catheter (I used a 16Fr); a syringe for putting water into the balloon; thread of your choice; forceps; a holepunch like the ones that are sold in DIY shops; liquid latex.

1. inject a small amount of water into the balloon - I used enough to make the diameter about 1 cm.

2. fit the forceps on the catheter about 1/2 to 2/3 of the way down - this is trial and error and depends a bit on your anatomy.

3. Cut off the outer end of the cath, about 1 inch below the forceps

4. Now that you can see the two capillaries in the cath, use the holepunch to make holes in main capillary (i.e. the one the urine drains out of). Do this above the forceps so that you'll know immediately if you've hit the water capillary by accident. There's trial and error here too - on one attempt I got a jet of water and that was the end of that device ...

5. Dip the severed end of the cath in some liquid latex and allow to dry - you need to do this several times in order to seal the end completely (see below) and to ensure that you cover the rough end of the cath completely. When the cath is drying, hang it severed end down so that the latex forms a 'blob' on the end. The forceps are still on at this point. This process of dipping and drying takes several hours so you need lots of patience.

6. When you've got a nice smooth end and it's completely dry, remove the forceps. If the later has sealed the end properly you won't have any leaks.

7. Tie some thread at the sealed end of the cath so that you can remove it later.

8. You might want to try to sterilise the cath now by using an antiseptic wipe.

9. You're ready to insert; plenty of an appropriate lube to hand.

10. Inserting is pretty much as normal, until you get the sealed end inside your penis; then you have to work it along from the outside. As I discovered before, the urethra is actually incredibly stretchy, so I had no problem at all getting the bulb inside - it's surprising but not a problem. Eventually the far end of the cath gets to the sphincter and you need more effort. I was a bit flummoxed here - I thought I felt resistance but there was no flow. On the verge of giving up, I pulled gently on the thread to ease things in the other direction and after a few seconds there was a flow.

It's been about two hours now and there are no problems so far. Things to consider:

- putting the water in the balloon doesn't sound good but I've found that a modest amount isn't a problem - the urethra accommdates it, and it's enough to stay in position - the lose thread I left 'hanging out' is moving neither backwards nor forwards so the cath is stable.

- don't make it too short - my first attempt didn't work because the cut down cath was about 5 inches long and I couldn't manipulate it from the outside far enough. 9 to 10 inches worked though; for me the end is still in my shaft and not past my balls.

- the thread is a little bit irritating but not too bad. I was worried about this before because I've tried the method described in other posts (i.e. insert the cath as normal, inflate, forceps immediately on the head of the penis, snip and use a cap of some sort - but I couldn't keep that in for more than about 20 mins. With the end of the cath 3 to 4 inches inside, there's no pain (and I guess no nerve endings). Although the thread is a bit irritating, that may subside as I get used to it; I was interested to read on a medical site that people with kidney stones can have a stent fitted which while it has to be inserted surgically, has a thread on the end and can be removed by the patient simply by pulling on the thread - so having thread attached like that is a recognised medical procedure.

- I hope the thread is on securely enough for me to remove the cath if/when I want to - this is a risk as it's the first time, but hopefully I won't need to make an embarrassing trip to A&E (and if the balloon will pass as easily out of the bladder as it did in - hopefully yes, as the muscles are designed to let things out and not the other way). It would be interesting to see if there are other ways of managing this. I wondered, for example, about attaching some sort of ball to the end of the cath nearest the outside would work - with liquid latex as strong as it is, it should be possible to get a good join - then you could manoeuvre the cath from behind the ball to get the cath out - but I'm not sure if the ball would also stop the flow of urine.

So ... it's been another interesting and so far successful day. There are some unanswered questions here (!) and please don't tell me I'm mad - I've thought a lot about this and am perfectly sane.