Sex Ratio...

[Guest Diaperdragon]

Let's put it this way... Would you call someone who had a breast augmentation/"boob job" someone with NATURAL breasts? No! Okay... so would you call someone who is a transgendered female a BIOLOGICAL female? No! CASE CLOSED!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you for your apology, I appreciate you doing that and I really enjoy a lot of the posts you make .

AMEN to that. That's why Transgendered people don't seem to get.

[Pudding]

Let's put it this way... Would you call someone who had a breast augmentation/"boob job" someone with NATURAL breasts? No! Okay... so would you call someone who is a transgendered female a BIOLOGICAL female? No! CASE CLOSED!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you for your apology, I appreciate you doing that and I really enjoy a lot of the posts you make .

I didn't say I was a biological female. I said I was a real girl.

Real means to exist, and I do.

Nice try, tho!

Nice try, but your so called Science is FLAWED and illogical.

Oh, I get it! You're one of those so-called "trolls" that Mommy's & Daddy's warn us about, right?

[Bettypooh]

Ain't that the truth LuvsGurl. Trans's In Reality aren't a "REAL" boy/girl unless everything matches including DNA, Chromosomes and biological makeup as well. They can say all the want about bring the opposite gender, but unless they have the DNA, physiological, biological and reproductive features of said gender. They will never ever come close to being a "REAL" boy/girl with the exception of Intersex people such as myself. A "Real" boy/girl is someone who has all the DNA such as XX and XY chromosomes, biological/physiological and reproductive features of that gender

I'm sorry, but I have to point out that you aren't a "real" boy/girl unless everything matches. Thus why transgender terms exist in the first place. I realize that some transgendered persons don't like this and prefer to refer to themselves as the gender of their mental state, especially online, but in reality that is just a lie.

Your ignorance is showing dearies Let me educate you with some truth DNA doers not delineate sex or gender- it shows none of that. Chromosomes are far more than XX or XY; in fact there are 36 known chromosomal variations in what is considered to be of both sexes. There are many persons who were born with a body that had 'female' organs, looked 'female' from outside, developed as 'female' during puberty, but have no ability to bear children because of their chromosomes, which do not follow the normal 'female' pattern of XX Using your logic they cannot be female- i just hope their heterosexual husband happens to be there when you tell him he married a guy- I do like seeing people get what they deserve

What you have not considered is that many Transpeople are Intersex, having both male and female parts (inside and outside) throughout the entire spectrum of possibilities- and they were born this way I know people with both a penis and a vagina- one has gonads and ovaries too. Now pray tell, in your error-filled mind, which are these persons- male or female? According to you they have to be one or the other- and if they have surgery that doesn't change so then you have the possibilities of a woman with a penis or a man with a vagina or a woman with a vagina or a man with a penis- and nothing else is possible. Whatever your choice of your four possible answers is, you are very obviously going to be wrong Thus your precepts must be in error, because there has to be a correct answer to every question. In other words, your way of thinking is wrong from the start which has led you to erroneous conclusions from that point forward

Consider the many cases of babies born with physical birth defects which are surgically corrected at some point after birth. Is this person still a 'freak of nature' to you, even though you can't tell there was ever an issue to be resolved? And what of women who have breast reconstruction after cancer- since they no longer have what they were born with they cannot be a woman any longer. Or women whose bodies do not produce estrogen (either from birth or post-menopause)- can they still be a woman? Not since they aren't complete if I use your flawed logic to determine that.

You speak ignorantly on matters of which you know little, and the little which you think that you know isn't true Persons with all the physical and mental aspects of women are born with penises on a routine basis, and they are surgically altered from very early after birth to points much later in life in order to 'correct the defect'. I won't even go into the many documented cases where the doctors ended up removing the penis from males and ruined their lives because of this kind of ignorance. I will point out, however, that there are also many cases where such 'penis bearing females' only discovered the 'defect' after the age where puberty was expected, then had the 'corrective' surgery at that point. Which are these persons- male because of the penis they were born with? Then explain how people like this give live birth to children! Which are they if this surgery was done shortly after birth versus later on in life? Judging from what you say here, these are not women so the men who married them must be gay, and the families these couples bore do not exist but are figments of everyone's imagination since we know that only women give birth. And what of the sterile women, whose chromosomes are not XX, but one of the 35 other known variations, some of which leave women infertile? Are they not 'real women' because of that? Or how about women with the XXY chromosome pattern who give birth to live young- since they have the "Y" chromosome they can't be a woman using your logic. Your logic is very flawed and your position untenable except under the premise of refutation of fact as being a proper viability.

You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to proclaim it to be fact if you can't prove that it is- and this time the proof points in a different direction. Personally I don't care whether a person is male, female, both, or neither- to me we are all the same born of one species with a whole spectrum of possible genders and possible sexes- not just two. I am intelligent enough to know that I can't define who or what someone else is and always be right, so I choose to not define who or what anyone is- then I'm right every time IMHO It's a far better way to be.

Bettypooh

[diaperbrownie]

I'm seeing a LOT of little red boxes on this thread page. It seems a lot of you are very sensitive about trans issues. I think the thread may have derailed.

[beachxbunni123]

Your ignorance is showing dearies Let me educate you with some truth DNA doers not delineate sex or gender- it shows none of that. Chromosomes are far more than XX or XY; in fact there are 36 known chromosomal variations in what is considered to be of both sexes. There are many persons who were born with a body that had 'female' organs, looked 'female' from outside, developed as 'female' during puberty, but have no ability to bear children because of their chromosomes, which do not follow the normal 'female' pattern of XX Using your logic they cannot be female- i just hope their heterosexual husband happens to be there when you tell him he married a guy- I do like seeing people get what they deserve

What you have not considered is that many Transpeople are Intersex, having both male and female parts (inside and outside) throughout the entire spectrum of possibilities- and they were born this way I know people with both a penis and a vagina- one has gonads and ovaries too. Now pray tell, in your error-filled mind, which are these persons- male or female? According to you they have to be one or the other- and if they have surgery that doesn't change so then you have the possibilities of a woman with a penis or a man with a vagina or a woman with a vagina or a man with a penis- and nothing else is possible. Whatever your choice of your four possible answers is, you are very obviously going to be wrong Thus your precepts must be in error, because there has to be a correct answer to every question. In other words, your way of thinking is wrong from the start which has led you to erroneous conclusions from that point forward

Consider the many cases of babies born with physical birth defects which are surgically corrected at some point after birth. Is this person still a 'freak of nature' to you, even though you can't tell there was ever an issue to be resolved? And what of women who have breast reconstruction after cancer- since they no longer have what they were born with they cannot be a woman any longer. Or women whose bodies do not produce estrogen (either from birth or post-menopause)- can they still be a woman? Not since they aren't complete if I use your flawed logic to determine that.

You speak ignorantly on matters of which you know little, and the little which you think that you know isn't true Persons with all the physical and mental aspects of women are born with penises on a routine basis, and they are surgically altered from very early after birth to points much later in life in order to 'correct the defect'. I won't even go into the many documented cases where the doctors ended up removing the penis from males and ruined their lives because of this kind of ignorance. I will point out, however, that there are also many cases where such 'penis bearing females' only discovered the 'defect' after the age where puberty was expected, then had the 'corrective' surgery at that point. Which are these persons- male because of the penis they were born with? Then explain how people like this give live birth to children! Which are they if this surgery was done shortly after birth versus later on in life? Judging from what you say here, these are not women so the men who married them must be gay, and the families these couples bore do not exist but are figments of everyone's imagination since we know that only women give birth. And what of the sterile women, whose chromosomes are not XX, but one of the 35 other known variations, some of which leave women infertile? Are they not 'real women' because of that? Or how about women with the XXY chromosome pattern who give birth to live young- since they have the "Y" chromosome they can't be a woman using your logic. Your logic is very flawed and your position untenable except under the premise of refutation of fact as being a proper viability.

You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to proclaim it to be fact if you can't prove that it is- and this time the proof points in a different direction. Personally I don't care whether a person is male, female, both, or neither- to me we are all the same born of one species with a whole spectrum of possible genders and possible sexes- not just two. I am intelligent enough to know that I can't define who or what someone else is and always be right, so I choose to not define who or what anyone is- then I'm right every time IMHO It's a far better way to be.

Bettypooh

Sorry Bettypooh but I'm going to have to disagree with you. According to society and our world, one is identified as either A. Male or B. Female. For example, when they have to identify bodies of people, they either identify them as MALE or FEMALE. It it totally your choice and your right if you would like to be gay, cross dress, or even get cosmetic surgery to make you appear to look more 'feminine'... but this does not mean that you are CHANGING your gender, you are rather 'mutilating' it (Again I am NOT at all trying to be harsh). There are 2 genders: male and female, the intersex cases that you are talking about are genetic mutations-- a medical dysfunction that's not supposed happen that way. If there is no medical dysfunction and one still wants to mutliate their body I consider that a distorted way of thinking. Again I am not being harsh, I support those with genetic dysfunctions having operations though-- same as someone would have a breast augmentation if they had undergone a masectomy.

********NOTE:*************

One thing that's necessary to mention is that TRANSGENDERED are NOT LESS of a human! Just because one has a genetic mutation of some sort it does NOT make them not normal! To say that a human with genetic issues isn't normal is the equivalent of saying people diagnosed with cancer aren't normal and not only is that a ludicrous, incorrect way of thing but it's outlandish, immoral, and ultimately wrong! For some people on here to say that a transgendered or a hermaphrodite is "not normal" is wrong, inappropriate, and that behavior is not tolerated.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I didn't say I was a biological female. I said I was a real girl.

Real means to exist, and I do.

Nice try, tho!

Of course you exist, no one said you didn't! But that doesn't make a transgender a biological female. Again: Let's put it this way... Would you call someone who had a breast augmentation/"boob job" someone with NATURAL breasts? No! Okay... so would you call someone who is a transgendered female a BIOLOGICAL female? No! CASE CLOSED!

[Guest Diaperdragon]

Your ignorance is showing dearies Let me educate you with some truth DNA doers not delineate sex or gender- it shows none of that. Chromosomes are far more than XX or XY; in fact there are 36 known chromosomal variations in what is considered to be of both sexes. There are many persons who were born with a body that had 'female' organs, looked 'female' from outside, developed as 'female' during puberty, but have no ability to bear children because of their chromosomes, which do not follow the normal 'female' pattern of XX Using your logic they cannot be female- i just hope their heterosexual husband happens to be there when you tell him he married a guy- I do like seeing people get what they deserve

So is yours Bettypooh, your Ignorance and and uneducated knowledge is seriously lacking. You trying to educate me:roflmao: That is so funny because it seems that you are the one who needs to be educated and needs to GO BACK to SCHOOL. DNA dose tell what gender a person is. Chromosomes are XX and XY. Their are so many DNA variations and I know most of them. The only RARE case is true Hermaphrodite and they are SO RARE that they are virtually unknown in the human species. It's either you have one ovary and one testis or incomplete set's of sex organs at BIRTH. Intersex people for the most part are STERILE from birth to DEATH and can't bear Children Naturally. It's fairly obvious that you don't understand University or medical school level GENETICS or Medical Science. Then let's see you try and explain Turners syndrome women. Let's be clear, your logic and science is so flawed that NO intersex group and NO intersex expert that I know of from Alice Dreger to Milton Diamond will ever accept your warped logic and theory

What you have not considered is that many Transpeople are Intersex, having both male and female parts (inside and outside) throughout the entire spectrum of possibilities- and they were born this way I know people with both a penis and a vagina- one has gonads and ovaries too. Now pray tell, in your error-filled mind, which are these persons- male or female? According to you they have to be one or the other- and if they have surgery that doesn't change so then you have the possibilities of a woman with a penis or a man with a vagina or a woman with a vagina or a man with a penis- and nothing else is possible. Whatever your choice of your four possible answers is, you are very obviously going to be wrong Thus your precepts must be in error, because there has to be a correct answer to every question. In other words, your way of thinking is wrong from the start which has led you to erroneous conclusions from that point forward

I see your also wrong again and way Ignorant here as well. First off, Trans people are not INTERSEX PEOPLE. Let's get that Idea out of your HEAD because according to current HBSoC and WPATH guidelines, Intersex people are exempt from being called TRANS. Also in the DSM manual, Intersex people can be called Trans if an intersex person Reject what is assigned to them Medically. Trans people do not have both male and female parts at birth. Only Intersex people such as myself who have both male and female parts at BIRTH. You seem to be so Ignorant and stupid to think that Trans people are intersex and think it's ok for you to try and pass yourself off as an intersex person without having the DNA, Biology, physiology and physical features of an intersex person. Well it's not and as an intersex person, I am So offended and so pissed off at your remark. Your way of thinking is so stupid and so uneducated that it makes me wonder how you got through school thinking like that. Your conclusions are so wrong and frankly down right sexist.

You speak ignorantly on matters of which you know little, and the little which you think that you know isn't true Persons with all the physical and mental aspects of women are born with penises on a routine basis, and they are surgically altered from very early after birth to points much later in life in order to 'correct the defect'. I won't even go into the many documented cases where the doctors ended up removing the penis from males and ruined their lives because of this kind of ignorance. I will point out, however, that there are also many cases where such 'penis bearing females' only discovered the 'defect' after the age where puberty was expected, then had the 'corrective' surgery at that point. Which are these persons- male because of the penis they were born with? Then explain how people like this give live birth to children! Which are they if this surgery was done shortly after birth versus later on in life? Judging from what you say here, these are not women so the men who married them must be gay, and the families these couples bore do not exist but are figments of everyone's imagination since we know that only women give birth. And what of the sterile women, whose chromosomes are not XX, but one of the 35 other known variations, some of which leave women infertile? Are they not 'real women' because of that? Or how about women with the XXY chromosome pattern who give birth to live young- since they have the "Y" chromosome they can't be a woman using your logic. Your logic is very flawed and your position untenable except under the premise of refutation of fact as being a proper viability.

It seems that it is you who speak so ignorantly and trying to mansplain intersex in the context of your transgenderism. You Don't know what it means to be an INTERSEX person and even what it means to be a Biological NATURAL Born woman. The fact that you have tried to insert yourself into place where people have asked questions for Biological born women only, shows how sexist you are and how you are still holding on to your MALE privilege and Male upbringing. The fact is their are documented cases where their are intersex people who can have kids, not NATURALLY, but medically assisted. Which is something you don't seem to understand and can't comprehend. The fact is, Intersex people can't father or even bear children NATURALLY. They have to have some type of medically assisted help for that one. Judging by what you are saying, you are so dumber than a doorknob. It seems to me that your grasping at straws trying to prove your so called points and illogical theories that will not hold up to any Academic standards.

You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to proclaim it to be fact if you can't prove that it is- and this time the proof points in a different direction. Personally I don't care whether a person is male, female, both, or neither- to me we are all the same born of one species with a whole spectrum of possible genders and possible sexes- not just two. I am intelligent enough to know that I can't define who or what someone else is and always be right, so I choose to not define who or what anyone is- then I'm right every time IMHO It's a far better way to be.

Really, You think your so Intelligent, but in REALITY, your so ignorant and SEXIST. I have a Right to my opinions as with everyone elses. Also if you Don't like how the REAL WORLD operates, there's the DOOR and you can always leave at anytime. I am Intelligent enough to know who's BSing people and who's trying to Mansplain things. The fact is Bettypooh, You and all the Transpeople in here HAVE no RIGHT to call yourselves intersex or Women. It's clearly nothing more than Misrepresentation of gender and clearly deceiving people. It's also Sexist and offenive towards Natural and Biological born women and FAB (FEMALE AT BIRTH) and I'll leave you with this to ponder, the strictest definition of intersex that is accepted by medical science and mainstream Society;

Intersex

–noun Biology .

an individual displaying sexual characteristics of both male and female.

— n

1. the condition of having characteristics intermediate between those of a male and a female

2. gynandromorph hermaphrodite Compare hermaphrodite an individual, esp a person, exhibiting such physiological characteristics

Intersex

Intersex

[Guest Diaperdragon]

Sorry Bettypooh but I'm going to have to disagree with you. According to society and our world, one is identified as either A. Male or B. Female. For example, when they have to identify bodies of people, they either identify them as MALE or FEMALE. It it totally your choice and your right if you would like to be gay, cross dress, or even get cosmetic surgery to make you appear to look more 'feminine'... but this does not mean that you are CHANGING your gender, you are rather 'mutilating' it (Again I am NOT at all trying to be harsh). There are 2 genders: male and female, the intersex cases that you are talking about are genetic mutations-- a medical dysfunction that's not supposed happen that way. If there is no medical dysfunction and one still wants to mAgain I am not being harsh, I support those with genetic dysfunctions having operations though-- same as someone would have a breast augmentation if they had undergone a masectomy.

********NOTE:*************

One thing that's necessary to mention is that TRANSGENDERED are NOT LESS of a human! Just because one has a genetic mutation of some sort it does NOT make them not normal! To say that a human with genetic issues isn't normal is the equivalent of saying people diagnosed with cancer aren't normal and not only is that a ludicrous, incorrect way of thing but it's outlandish, immoral, and ultimately wrong! For some people on here to say that a transgendered or a hermaphrodite is "not normal" is wrong, inappropriate, and that behavior is not tolerated.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Of course you exist, no one said you didn't! But that doesn't make a transgender a biological female. Again: Let's put it this way... Would you call someone who had a breast augmentation/"boob job" someone with NATURAL breasts? No! Okay... so would you call someone who is a transgendered female a BIOLOGICAL female? No! CASE CLOSED!

beachxbunni123, I totally agree with you and what you have said. You have said it very clear and right to the point.

[tauschung]

I have only read *parts* of page 3. Not trying to perpetuate this flame war..it needs to stop. WTF does it matter to you Diaperdragon or beachxbunni123 if they claim to be women. IMO they are women. You are letting your ignorance show.

Why don't you reflect on the social reality of someone who does not fit your pre-defined gender construct? You can't go around and say, well "you don't act black, or you aren't a real woman. What if you were born in the wrong body? What if you were satisfied with your body and someone told you that it was wrong? How would that make you feel?

I know I rambled, but just think about it.

[beachxbunni123]

I have only read *parts* of page 3. WTF does it matter to you if they claim to be women. IMO they are women.

Well maybe you should read page 3 in order to avoid making false accusations in your post.

What if you were born in the wrong body? What if you were satisfied with your body and someone told you that it was wrong? How would that make you feel?

If someone felt they were born in the wrong body, I don't feel they should personally mutliate the genitalia that they were born with (Unless they were born hermaphrodites or intersex which constitutes as a medical reason). If someone said that they were 'born in the wrong species' and felt they were more cat-like do you think they should mutilate themselves to look like a cat? No. If someone does have issues with their body, then they need to talk to a professional and get the help they need--which they deserve! Just because an transgender suffers from emotional issues and intersex/hermaphrodites suffer from physical issues they need to realize that they will and can get help and are loved!

[tauschung]

beachxbunni123, they way you are typing makes me feel that you don't view a transgender individual as a person. Why don't you come down from your soap box?

Why don't you do some reading on social power, prejudice, oppression, and privilege. Reflect on that, and tell me if you feel any different?

Edit: we are talking about gender, right? Gender is a fluid construct. The point is that I am not trying to debate about who is in what category. Assigning people into a category is WRONG. This leads to marginalization and oppression. Read up or take a walk in their shoes.

[beachxbunni123]

beachxbunni123, they way you are typing makes me feel that you don't view a transgender individual as a person. Why don't you come down from your soap box?

I have only read *parts* of page 3.

That is false. Again, I suggest you read page 3 in order to avoid making false accusations in your post. EDIT: Thank you for acknowledging your false accusation in your post.

I chose the wrong words. Not less human. Intolerant of others.

If you had read page 3, you wouldn't have made that false accusation and would have found I have previously specifically stated …

One thing that's necessary to mention is that TRANSGENDERED are NOT LESS of a human! Just because one has a genetic mutation of some sort it does NOT make them not normal!

Edit: we are talking about gender, right? Gender is a fluid construct. The point is that I am not trying to debate about who is in what category. Assigning people into a category is WRONG.

Again, false. According to the law today, a body is identified as A. Male or B. Female. If you disagree with the law, then I suggest you speak with your local offical about it.

[tauschung]

I chose the wrong words. Not less human. Intolerant of others. I am not responding to any more on this thread. I'd just like you to reflect on how you are coming off. At the end of the day, change comes from ourselves, and having an argument on a forum serves no purpose.

Good day.

[WallaWalla]

A few things, re: trannies.

1) I have always said that getting bent out of shape over niggling terminology hurts us more than it helps. Act like a crybaby and you will cultivate that perception, get bent out of shape about the stuff that matters, not the prefix on a word. If you're a tranny, chances are you need to lighten up about the way that other people perceive you, and especially the terminology they use, and especially when it isn't attacking your identity outright in most cases.(Oddly enough, that's applying to the 'normal people' in this case too. I guess it's contagious?)

2) Haters, you're not going to find an unequivocal definition which includes all genetic women while discounting all genetic men. There are people born with vaginas who have XY chromosomes, what are they? So really, you can't make any sort of academic blanket statement, you can only define gender relative to other factors.

2a) For instance, I have a vagina, that makes me legally female, therefore any argument about 'the law' in regard to transsexuals not being 'real women' is counterproductive, in the eyes of the law, they are given the same legal status when certain conditions have been met.

3) For that matter, it's not important for you to intellectualize and attempt to justify your hate/distaste/dislike/whateveryouwanttocallit for us. If you simply think we are gross and nasty, be honest about it and run with that. If you don't think it's okay to dislike somebody just because they are gross and nasty, well then don't find a new reason just so you don't get pinned as somebody who does that kind of thing. Be honest with yourself, and if yourself doesn't like trannies, so be it. It's not important to me that you do, hell I assume most people don't.

4) Bearing that most people agree with your stance on trannies however, bear in mind that this cultural attitude is what is responsible for the greater bit of 'lying.' Given the amount of trouble that it would bring into my life to be honest about this, it's much easier for me to simply let everyone assume that I was born a female. It doesn't really matter where I am, a dinner party, work, school, I will not let anyone know what I was born with.

So, in short, if you are upset about 'those trannies always lying' while also being upset about 'those lying trannies,' keep in mind that your being pissed about the trannies just existing to begin with is part of what makes them lie and try to cover it up so much.

On topic:

All sorts of 'real women' on fetlife.

[sarah_ab]

Gender is not biological..... SEX is biological.....

gender is the term used to describe how a petson identifies not how a person is biologically

gender can ver much be fluid as it is linked to emotions and feelings

gender and sex are closely related terms but do NOT mean the same thing

it seems many people are using the two terms interchangably when they should be used very differently

[Guest Diaperdragon]

Gender is not biological..... SEX is biological.....

gender is the term used to describe how a petson identifies not how a person is biologically

gender can ver much be fluid as it is linked to emotions and feelings

gender and sex are closely related terms but do NOT mean the same thing

it seems many people are using the two terms interchangably when they should be used very differently

I disagree with you. Sex and gender should not mix like OIL and Water do not mix

[BoTox]

Far be it for me to be an expert. I'll talk to anyone but as an XY chromosome male, I would never want to date anything but XX women. Period, end of story. All this TG/TS/BS stuff is just a way for people with confused views to do their thing. Fine, do it but don't claim to be a biological girl/guy.

[sarah_ab]

I disagree with you. Sex and gender should not mix like OIL and Water do not mix

i am very confused by your analogy... could you please elaborate... because it doesn't make any sense to me...

[Guest Diaperdragon]

so then you arent a girl, since you had male part(s) at some point in your life, and may to this very day. Stop lying to people that youre a girl, youre obviously not.

or do only you get to use that logic?

Much like you as well who isn't a real biological natural born woman. It seems to me your Lying more than anyone else. FYI, I'm an Intersex which means I'm neither male nor female. I have the DNA and Karyotype to prove it. Also, in the next 10 to 20 years, DNA may one day replace fingerprints and States and Fed may require your DNA as proof of who you are instead of your Fingerprints. So figure in the next 10 to 20 years down the road, Trans people won't be able to lie about who they are because sooner or later the Federal governments are going to change from asking your fingerprints to asking your DNA. We all know from the OJ trial, DNA Don't LIE in COURT of LAW.

[curiositykilledthecat]

*pokes head into thread* yeah that's it, I know a train wreck when I see one, I'm staying out of this.

[Total Trash]

3) For that matter, it's not important for you to intellectualize and attempt to justify your hate/distaste/dislike/whateveryouwanttocallit for us. If you simply think we are gross and nasty, be honest about it and run with that. If you don't think it's okay to dislike somebody just because they are gross and nasty, well then don't find a new reason just so you don't get pinned as somebody who does that kind of thing. Be honest with yourself, and if yourself doesn't like trannies, so be it. It's not important to me that you do, hell I assume most people don't.

This. Unless you've gotten a karyotype at some point, there's no way of knowing what sex chromosomes you have. When babies are born, the doctor doesn't look at their chromosomes. They look at their genitals. Sometimes their genitals are ambiguous. In these cases, the doctor will usually push the parents to pursue "corrective" surgery using the justification that having ambiguous genitals will cause their baby to be socially ostracized. Now, do the doctors look at the baby's chromosomes and pick how to "correct" them based on that? Nah, they usually just feminize them, because "it's easier to dig a hole than erect a pole." Like in transwomen, the neovagina is usually nonfunctional and won't be able to bear children, but that's okay because being penetrated is a passive act! If they gave them a penis they would need to be able to become erect, ejaculate and such to be accepted as male (see: viagra). XY females and XX males can go their whole lives without ever questioning their assigned gender. Assigned gender roles have been around a lot longer than we've known about genetics. Chromosomes are only ever used as a post facto justification for biological essentialism. In no society do they form the basis for gender roles.

So, in short, if you are upset about 'those trannies always lying' while also being upset about 'those lying trannies,' keep in mind that your being pissed about the trannies just existing to begin with is part of what makes them lie and try to cover it up so much.

Seriously. I'm no assimilationist, but if I had to constantly pick a fight like this with everyone I meet in order to have my identity validated, you're damn right I wouldn't to bring it up if I didn't have to.

On topic:

All sorts of 'real women' on fetlife.

Quoted for empahasis

Much like you as well who isn't a real biological natural born woman. It seems to me your Lying more than anyone else. FYI, I'm an Intersex which means I'm neither male nor female. I have the DNA and Karyotype to prove it. Also, in the next 10 to 20 years, DNA may one day replace fingerprints and States and Fed may require your DNA as proof of who you are instead of your Fingerprints. So figure in the next 10 to 20 years down the road, Trans people won't be able to lie about who they are because sooner or later the Federal governments are going to change from asking your fingerprints to asking your DNA. We all know from the OJ trial, DNA Don't LIE in COURT of LAW.

The dystopian future in Gattaca may have had its problems but at least THOSE FUCKING TRANNIES won't be able to pass themselves off as REAL WOMEN.

[Guest Diaperdragon]

This. Unless you've gotten a karyotype at some point, there's no way of knowing what sex chromosomes you have. When babies are born, the doctor doesn't look at their chromosomes. They look at their genitals. Sometimes their genitals are ambiguous. In these cases, the doctor will usually push the parents to pursue "corrective" surgery using the justification that having ambiguous genitals will cause their baby to be socially ostracized. Now, do the doctors look at the baby's chromosomes and pick how to "correct" them based on that? Nah, they usually just feminize them, because "it's easier to dig a hole than erect a pole." Like in transwomen, the neovagina is usually nonfunctional and won't be able to bear children, but that's okay because being penetrated is a passive act! If they gave them a penis they would need to be able to become erect, ejaculate and such to be accepted as male (see: viagra). XY females and XX males can go their whole lives without ever questioning their assigned gender. Assigned gender roles have been around a lot longer than we've known about genetics. Chromosomes are only ever used as a post facto justification for biological essentialism. In no society do they form the basis for gender roles.

Seriously. I'm no assimilationist, but if I had to constantly pick a fight like this with everyone I meet in order to have my identity validated, you're damn right I wouldn't to bring it up if I didn't have to.

Quoted for empahasis

The dystopian future in Gattaca may have had its problems but at least THOSE FUCKING TRANNIES won't be able to pass themselves off as REAL WOMEN.

Pretty much we DNA test Prison Inmates, sex offenders and Convicts. So Naturally, how long before it will take for Law enforcement to replaces fingerprinting for DNA. You can picture years down the Road where Law enforcement will demand for your DNA instead of your fingerprints. We already do it in Court cases and even in Forensic cases. It's eventually going to be a point where DNA will decide what gender you are, not what equipment you have or perceive to have.

All this have me thinking, Their is an Article written once by Raven Kaldera called "Dangerous Intersections: Intersex and Transgender Differences" It basically boils down to this Trans people who try to claim intersex do so because they want to claim a nonexistent disability to get a better parking space or to try to claim a minority status in order to get a better job.

Here's the link to what I am trying to say; Dangerous Intersections: Intersex and Transgender Differences

http://www.ravenkaldera.org/intersection/

[WallaWalla]

Far be it for me to be an expert. I'll talk to anyone but as an XY chromosome male, I would never want to date anything but XX women. Period, end of story. All this TG/TS/BS stuff is just a way for people with confused views to do their thing. Fine, do it but don't claim to be a biological girl/guy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complete_androgen_insensitivity_syndrome

There's actually a somewhat significant chance that you have already dated somebody who wasn't an XX woman. Not that I'm using that as an argument to persuade you toward dating trannies, but rather to demonstrate that you will not be able to establish an unequivocal definition.

Why come out and say 'hey dudes I am not touching that with a ten foot pole' when nobody asked though? Have you had a history of problems with that? Should I be forced to bring it up as soon as I meet somebody walking down the street? I mean seriously, how realistic do you think it would be for me to disrupt every single social interaction(and possibly the cohesion of a public place in general) by telling the cashier that I am actually A MAN(which is phenotypically and legally, false, driver's license has a big fat F on it and I've never grown so much as a hair on my chin in my life) if he calls me ma'am? How does that serve society? How is that good for anyone?

I don't care how you or anybody on this website thinks of me though, I'm primarily interested in illustrated how kneejerkingly irrational the stance that people take against transsexuals as a whole is. People can just as easily dismiss you as 'confused' for having a fetish for women wearing diapers, etc and so forth. I mean for crying out loud, here we have a community of grown people, the majority of which literally roll around in their own filth, taking out their resentment on a doubly marginalized portion of their own community. Way to keep things in perspective!

Pretty much we DNA test Prison Inmates, sex offenders and Convicts. So Naturally, how long before it will take for Law enforcement to replaces fingerprinting for DNA. You can picture years down the Road where Law enforcement will demand for your DNA instead of your fingerprints. We already do it in Court cases and even in Forensic cases. It's eventually going to be a point where DNA will decide what gender you are, not what equipment you have or perceive to have.

And I guess since we are going to be looking at DNA, intersex people will be shuffled off into the 'genderless non-human category' huh? Listen at your ridiculously hateful rhetoric, you've been beating this drum for years. The way that people hate on trannies, you would think that there were enough of us for it to actually matter. You've harassed me from the very start, and again I feel the need to point out that you are punishing the behavior you seek to encourage by doing so, as it would have been much easier and significantly less dramatic if I had just lied whole hog and kept it a secret.

Oh, and we'll probably be able to modify the DNA itself eventually, what do you think of that? The fact of the matter is that even if society isn't on the side of transsexual people at this point, 'the law' and science are.

I also find it hilarious(though not surprising) that the link you provided discourages exactly the kind of behavior that you do your best to propagate(i.e. hating on the other group as if though they are the evil scum of the earth).

[Guest Diaperdragon]

And I guess since we are going to be looking at DNA, intersex people will be shuffled off into the 'genderless non-human category' huh? Listen at your ridiculously hateful rhetoric, you've been beating this drum for years. The way that people hate on trannies, you would think that there were enough of us for it to actually matter. You've harassed me from the very start, and again I feel the need to point out that you are punishing the behavior you seek to encourage by doing so, as it would have been much easier and significantly less dramatic if I had just lied whole hog and kept it a secret.

Oh, and we'll probably be able to modify the DNA itself eventually, what do you think of that? The fact of the matter is that even if society isn't on the side of transsexual people at this point, 'the law' and science are.

I also find it hilarious(though not surprising) that the link you provided discourages exactly the kind of behavior that you do your best to propagate(i.e. hating on the other group as if though they are the evil scum of the earth).

I find it very hilarious that you would claim female and womanhood, when in Reality you don't even come close to the real thing The fact is Science and Law is never on your side to begin with. The fact that you lied in the beginning shows that you lied about being a genetic biological Natural Born woman. You actually deceived people and I caught you deceiving people.

Listen, You so called Hateful rhetoric, is very offensive towards FAB (Female at Birth)Women and Biological Natural born women everywhere. You behavior in here is why all the Biological Natural Born women and intersex Born people are very offended at you and all the trans people in here.

As Raven Kaldera has said, it is Very dangerous for Transgender people to mix with Biological Natural born women and Intersex people.

[sarah_ab]

i'm so glad i don't live in new england any more if this is the mindset out there now....

course it is quite indicative of the lack of quality education in the new england schools......

[KittenAB]

You do realise that the TG people may be the last hope for humanity, considering the overpopulation that is occurring thanks to the breeders. I mean, the gay community is at least helping there, if only breeders would let them adopt it would help a lot. As for genital mutilation, why is it that only when a TG does it, it's bad? Oh sure, BDSM freaks can mutilate away and it's a-okay ... but when TG does it *gasp* it's just plain wrong. Mutilation isn't just cutting things off either, tattoos and piercing are extremely common, and done cheap to. But in all seriousness, what is gender really? We are ALL female inherently until a specific point when a specific hormone is released BY THE MOTHER .... which can be done incorrectly if the mother is not healthy for any reason, including prescription drugs. As for the genetics, they are still finding more exceptions to the case every year, probably because nature is trying it's hardest to stop us from breeding. So what is gender considering all this? It's a state o mind, has been since the dawn of humanity itself. As a "higher" species these concepts should not be something we cannot control anyway, we are above that, natural isn't perfection, perfection is being able to choose your path, your life, your presence, and your being. A truly perfect species would have NO gender, no male, no female, everyone would just be who they are, period. So this whole crap on "gender ratio" is stupid to begin with, then to decide for others what gender they are makes it beyond stupid, to a whole new level of ignorance that surprises me in this modern world. So that's my 2 cents, wasn't going to bother with this thread but another brought this idiotic judgementalism to my attention.