Ibs = No Fun

[Diapered Wookie]

I was diagnosed with IBS a few years ago. I know of a few things that trigger it. Most of the time my stools are soft. The things that trigger it make them liquid. It is not fun at all. Especially in the middle of nowhere. One of those things is Starbuck's Iced Mocha. Normally I don't drink coffee type stuff. Some friends that were with me wanted to go to Starbuck's. I decided to get something just because I was there. That was a really bad idea. I confirmed that was the culprit because I bought the exact same thing a couple weeks later. Luckily I was near a restroom that time.

[sarah_ab]

for me ALL food triggered diarrhea .... my doctor put me on a sub therpeutic level of an ssri normally used for deprrssion but a low level was enough to balance to serotonin levels in my gi tract and now i have maybe on flare up every six weeks or so!!!

[diaperbrownie]

Another reason eberyoe should be required to be diapers 24/7 forever. it prevents catastrophic messed reesulting frmo commong medical conditions. The world is the bathroom, and we should go wherever.

[Loveable_guy]

Anything with cafeen will send me running. I often say I love coffee but it don’t love me. Unfortuntly I have to watch my rum and coke intake too.

Oh and for the record, just because I wear diapers doesn’t mean I want a mess. Only once did I have an accident while out and diapered. Not my thing.

[Little BabyDoll Christine]

I have been suspiciious of the validity of Irritable Bowel Syndrome ever sicne I first heard of it some 15 years ago. It showed up mostly with Chronic Fatigbue Syndrome and Sick Building Syndrome.

in the Early 2000's Dr Edell reported on these as Mass Sociogenic Disorders, meaning that they're all in your head because they did not stand up to double-blind studies, were very subject to teh Placebo Effect or best responsive to psychotherapy. In the case of Sick Building Syndrom or Sick House Syndrome. Persons who claimed to be afflicted with this were put in a place that they were told had all the "bad stuff" but which actually had none and came down with symptoms or were put in a place with all the "bad stuff" and were told that there were non and were perfectly all right.

Attempts were made to link Chronic Fatigue Syndrome with Epstein-Barre virus but they fell through. It proved out to be imaginary or what is called a "wastebasket diagnoses" a lebel put on a set of symptoms in the absense of thorough testing

Fibromyalgia proved out to be not a disorger but an unusually strong sensitivity to pain. The tactile function is not fixed but varies from person to person in different areas. a good percentage of persons feel some materials more strongly than others and cannot wear certain materials. Some persons are exceedingly ticlish so this comes as no surprise

I went to Quackwatch and looked up IBS and this is what I got

Quackwatch: IBS

What I get out of this is that we have another "wastebasket diagnosis" and this is sloppy medicine.

1. From my experience, bloating, gas and indigestion are normal to a certain extent

2. Lactose intolerence and food allergies have been around since the birds and the bees

3. Stress has been known for ages. In Graduate School Bhavior Modification I did a study on it and developed a therapy that I labelled "Covert Desensitization" because it used elements of Systematic Desensitization and Covert Sensitization. This is deal with a specific kind of disorfer known as "psychosomatic". A psychosomatic disorder is one that has its roots in psychology, such as stress but has real physical results. such as gastro-enteritis (for which I was diagnosed in 1976 and for which I was todl by the physician to "learn to cope". The thing was that I was not feeling "stressed" in fact, I had been on an emotional high for 8 years) What I found was that being on a high like that was affecting the same physical parts of the body as being on a bummer would. I then looked into the workd of Sheldon Lachmann on psychosomatic disorders. The symptoms of gastro-enteritis mimic the symptoms of more serious things, including heart attack, which creats real stress (it is not called "the big one" for no reason). this esacerbates the situation and is called a feedback loop called Vidious Circle Syndrome. Borrowing from Covert Sensitization the use of imaginary experiences to, borrowing from Systematic Desensitization (used to treat phobias), interpose between the gastro-enteritis symptom and the big scare, I broke the feedback loop over time and thw whole thing just went away. There was no magic or medical insight on my part, I knwo the territory and the tools available. I wrote it up and submitted it as a B-Mod project in class and got a A. So that aspect of IBS is understood

In fact there appears to be little or nothing in IBS that is not understood under other terms. I fear that this is sloppy medicien and superstition invading medicine successfully and is bad science

However what puzzles me is this "stress" thing. If you look at history and even the world today. Americans and Western Europeans life in Paradise. If you doubt this. go live in Lybia, Iran, Suudi Aarabia or Africa, or Mixico, Peru or any third world country. As your grandparents aobut the Depression. It seems that Western Europeans and Americans are becoming a race of soft wimps who just can not handle what life has to dish out. Before you give me any lip, I lived through 3 years of 70 hour 7 day work weeks for noext to no money, nearly been killed a few times and from the time I ws 11 until 13-1/2, if I was not in at least 1 big fight a week in school, something was wrong. All of this made my battles with lymphoma mostly an incovenience. I am scheduled for suggery in 2-1/2 weeks on my eye with a local anesthetic and I am saying "Bring it on" I have 20/300 distance vison and 1/14th close vision in one eye and noting in the other and have made myself competitive with normally sighted people because there were things I wanted in the normal-print reading material and I was very playful. My opthamologist has said "on a scale of 1 to 10 in complesity, you're a 36" and just the other day my Primary Care doc said I am "unique". On the other hand, trying to arrange for this suery and putting up with human stupidity and evil while slowly going blind is strssful, but that is becuase this is something that is over the top in bullshit in a situation with a seriously detrimental outcome that has lasted over a year. Also the crap that is not dealt with like loud car radios and run-amok governemt ARE things that cause person a good deal of justified rage and are stressful, but those too are just human evil, not essential to our way of life. What causes the aggrevation is that this should be dealt with as a matter of course but is not.

So what is all this "stresse-out" business?.

[sarah_ab]

chronic fatigue syndrome has been linked to testing positive for epstein barr antibodies but even if it were "all in your head" then its still a real paychiatric condition.... fibromyalgia has specific diagnostic criteria as does chronic fatigue .... ibs is a rule out disorder so it is very possible that in the future they discover many different conditions all once thought to be jbs ..... but please by saying some is "all in ones head" makes it sound as if the people are not feeling pain.... they DO feel pain what is unknown is if it is a physiological or psychological cause for the pain

[aleyxsis]

once again christine knows it all !! so it must be true ! .Unless you have been throu any of this do not preach as you always do christine go hug your dolly !

[Little BabyDoll Christine]

Do I have to eat broken glass to know that it will kill me?

Do you think I would say anything with certainty if I did not hear it reported as a meidcal study? As of 2010 The link to Epstein-Barre had fallen through

As I stated and have heard several reports on CFS responds to the Placebo Effect and in 60% of the cases Cognitive therapy. The only time I even pay attention to any reports is when they cited a source that was crdibile, especially from Edell whose politics are 180 degress out of phase wwtih mine so he has to show something to get me to believe him

And please learn how to write readable English if you wish to be taken seriously in this language. The shift key and punctuation keys are not on Mars, and I do not need the eyestrain. But then again: is as does.

[Guest]

"And please learn how to write readable English if you wish to be taken seriously in this language. The shift key and punctuation keys are not on Mars, and I do not need the eyestrain. But then again: is as does."

Here's the pot calling the kettle black. Nine spelling mistakes in the first half of the post. At least two capitalization mistakes. Lets not mention the run on sentences. I got tired of counting the mistakes and gave up. Flame away, I will just ignore it.

[Little Faerie]

I was first diagnosed with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Fibromyalgia before I found out that they were both being caused by an underlying disorder: hypothyroidism, accompanied by hormone deficiencies. Now tell me that one's in my head, that it's psychosomatic. Blood tests don't lie. Both of these very real and debilitating syndromes are often caused by something more serious, but doctors don't see a connection so they don't bother to find out what it is. I had THREE doctors tell me I was "depressed", "Eating too much", had "Just PMS", or "it's all in your head". Then I finally had a doctor who ran all sorts of blood tests and discovered that my thyroid wasn't functioning well, and that in turn caused my adrenal insufficiency, and caused me to have the hormone levels of a postmenopausal woman, at age 26! My 7 year old daughter has more estrogen than me. Those things were the root cause of my horrid nerve pains (increased pain sensitivity my ass... try having excruciating shooting pains when you aren't even moving. I can handle being flogged, spanked, whipped, etc., I think I know about pain. Fibro pain is a whole other ballgame) and the crushing fatigue as well. Both disorders are symptoms of underlying disease, but this does not make them less valid. Doctors don't or won't realize they are warning flags for something worse. It made me very angry to be accused by one doctor of making it up, and that I "must" take antipsychotics because this was the problem. I walked out of that office! I am physically ill and that was flat disrespectful. Be careful what you read out there, finding truth is a tricky thing. I now have to take thyroid medicine for the rest of my life. As it begins to work, the Fibro and CFS should go away, since as previously stated they are symptoms of the underlying disease. I suggest that you should consider that people with these things aren't just complaining or lazy or imagining it, that there is an underlying cause that simply hasn't been discovered. I did not believe in Fibromyalgia for years until I myself experienced it. I thought people with it were just whiners. How humbling. Karma is a bitch huh?

[Diapered Wookie]

I nkow some of you don't agree witht he idea of IBS being a disease itself. They did all kinds of blood work and even had me fill both types of cups. Nothing came back positive. I even had to deal with the 6 foot scope for another reason. They didn't even find anything else with that.

[gbw_dl]

what exactly is Iirratable Bowel Syndrome? I know that i have very very very irregular bowel movements, meaning i dont know when im going to have to go. There have been times where i cant make it to a bathroom, and i do crap my pants. I wouldnt consider it incontinence, only because i know that its comming, but i dont have anywhere to use the bathroom. I actually keep a couple pairs of boxers and shorts in my car for an emergency situation. That very rarely happens, i mean like once or twice a year that happens and i cant help it. i dont think its a medical problem, and the accidents happens so rarely that i couldnt get away with wearing diapers all the time for that one rare time a year.

[Little BabyDoll Christine]

I was first diagnosed with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Fibromyalgia before I found out that they were both being caused by an underlying disorder: hypothyroidism, accompanied by hormone deficiencies. Now tell me that one's in my head, that it's psychosomatic. Blood tests don't lie. Both of these very real and debilitating syndromes are often caused by something more serious, but doctors don't see a connection so they don't bother to find out what it is. I had THREE doctors tell me I was "depressed", "Eating too much", had "Just PMS", or "it's all in your head". Then I finally had a doctor who ran all sorts of blood tests and discovered that my thyroid wasn't functioning well, and that in turn caused my adrenal insufficiency, and caused me to have the hormone levels of a postmenopausal woman, at age 26! My 7 year old daughter has more estrogen than me. Those things were the root cause of my horrid nerve pains (increased pain sensitivity my ass... try having excruciating shooting pains when you aren't even moving. I can handle being flogged, spanked, whipped, etc., I think I know about pain. Fibro pain is a whole other ballgame) and the crushing fatigue as well. Both disorders are symptoms of underlying disease, but this does not make them less valid. Doctors don't or won't realize they are warning flags for something worse. It made me very angry to be accused by one doctor of making it up, and that I "must" take antipsychotics because this was the problem. I walked out of that office! I am physically ill and that was flat disrespectful. Be careful what you read out there, finding truth is a tricky thing. I now have to take thyroid medicine for the rest of my life. As it begins to work, the Fibro and CFS should go away, since as previously stated they are symptoms of the underlying disease. I suggest that you should consider that people with these things aren't just complaining or lazy or imagining it, that there is an underlying cause that simply hasn't been discovered. I did not believe in Fibromyalgia for years until I myself experienced it. I thought people with it were just whiners. How humbling. Karma is a bitch huh?

Let us go through it a second time to see what did not sink in. One of the things I said about Chronic Fatigue Syndrome was "IT IS A WASTEBASKET DIAGNOSIS" and went on to explain that it is a result of imcomplete testing. Well guess what? they missed hypothyroidism. Suprise; suprise. I also noted that most cases of CFS respond to behaviorr modification; specifically, congitive therapy. This could have been dangerous as it was "diagnosing" a known medical condition as a known psychological one.. Of Fibromyalgioa it has been found that persons reporting this show a more active sense of pain. than those not reporting this. But that is no shock there is s specturm of sense of pain running from a disorder where it is not felt to more intensely felt than average. Now do not confuse "psycho-somatic" with "Conversion hysteria" The latter is where the thing is "all in your head". Psychosomatic disorders are those real physical disorders that are a result of psychological matters; Stress (a much overused excuse for things in the US over the last 25 years to whine about what prior generations thought a normal part of life), if continued long enough affects the physical body, usually the cardio-vascular and digestive systems, depending on whichis the weaker.

"Irritable bowel" is not even a medical term, just like "insanity" is not a psychological term (It is a legal one). It has been a collolquialism to describe things like loose stool that persists for a day or so. It, too, has been elevated to a disease in this Age of the Whiner (Read "The Sicking of Americal").

When I looked it up on Quackwatch! (How to Manage Irritable Bowol) What I found was things I had known about for decades such as lactose intolerence, normal indigestion and a couple of other things. What I was suprised not to find in the list of symptomes were those of Ileitis and Colities, What is the scientific value of taking the symptoms of known conditions. listing them separately and then ;lumping them under a new label (like lumping LG, SPH, femdom under the "sissy" label)? What it does do is cloud the issue, gives malingerers an excuse to malinger, charletans a chance to charlat, make tons of unecessary work for the legitimate investigators by making them have to investigate things that were settled decades ago and confused the unwary or those with ordinary knowledge: Such a deal!

[sarah_ab]

sooo a psychological condition diagnosed by an md is not a medicL condition?

forgive us dr chridtine we did nkt know you were the worlds leading expert on cfs and ibs

[redneck diaper boy]

I was misdiagnosed with IBS years ago. It turned out to be something much more serious. You should get a second or third opinion. I had tumors on bowells and they could have killed me. Go see another doc and ask for a colonoscopy.

I was diagnosed with IBS a few years ago. I know of a few things that trigger it. Most of the time my stools are soft. The things that trigger it make them liquid. It is not fun at all. Especially in the middle of nowhere. One of those things is Starbuck's Iced Mocha. Normally I don't drink coffee type stuff. Some friends that were with me wanted to go to Starbuck's. I decided to get something just because I was there. That was a really bad idea. I confirmed that was the culprit because I bought the exact same thing a couple weeks later. Luckily I was near a restroom that time.

[Little BabyDoll Christine]

sooo a psychological condition diagnosed by an md is not a medicL condition?

forgive us dr chridtine we did nkt know you were the worlds leading expert on cfs and ibs

Not if it' is conversion hysteria/mass sciogenic disorder. If it is psychosomatic then it is both in which case the MD and the shrink should be working together. A medical condition diagnosed as a conversion hysteric one can be dangerous. This is something I caution persons about with behavior modification technipqes. You could teach the person to ignore symptoms of a dangerous medical condition. If someone came to me I would send them to an MD first before I built a therapy. Now with things like CFS, usually a conversion hysteria, being treated as a medical condition. the patient is not getting the therapy that works. and may have to put up with side effects of a drug prescribed for something they do not have. If that diagnosis is the result of incomplete testing. Watch out! The thing is that there are owver 300 tests they can do. How they missed hypothyroid, I do not know. I was on a watch list for that (I showed a low hormone count in a blood test but the next test was normal as was my pr-op test a couple of weeks ago)

There are two things to look for in research. 1) The study should be "double-blind", 2) they should have at least 3 groups, control, experimental and placebo. Conversion hysteria/mass sociogenic disorder respons almost 100% to the Placebo Effect

[Little BabyDoll Christine]

I was misdiagnosed with IBS years ago. It turned out to be something much more serious. You should get a second or third opinion. I had tumors on bowells and they could have killed me. Go see another doc and ask for a colonoscopy.

I got one of those once and it saved my life, they found I had water on the brain

[sarah_ab]

i have had 3 colonoscopies plus mris xrays ct scans and the one where u drink that nasty shake and they watch it move thru your system.....

as i said i believe there are perhaps a multitude of causes for ibs we just do not have enough research being done to pinpoint every cause so until then the medical comunity has created ibs which can cover a lot of different symptoms.... insurance companies require a diagnosis for ongoong treatment....

but i take medication which helps control my symptoms so i am just glad i was able to find a gi dr willing to try treatment and not simply tel me its in my head

[Little BabyDoll Christine]

It has heen researched to death and as I saw at Quackwatch! and I am no medical researcher, just a well-schooled, scinece-oriented, interestd layperson, the symptoms fit other known conditions for which the causes are known to be medical. There is nowhere left to look. Also much of it tracks conversion hysteria/mass sociogenic disorder more than physical illness (placebo effect, responds to psychotherapy) One way they test is to make capsules of the "offending" substance and sugar capsules that resemble the real thing and they set up four conditions 1 they give you the real thing and tell you so. 2 they give you the real thing and say it is the phony, 3 they give you the phony and tell you it is the real one and 4 they give you the phony and tell you it is the phony. The person who is doing the giving does not know who you are or the truth about what she is giving you. Only the study leader knows and you two never see each other (that is the essence of a double-blind)

The standing joke is "What's the difference between a disease and a Syndrome?" "a $500,000 federal grant"

[insanewiener]

I was diagnosed with IBS and guess what no underlying problems just because the facts say one thing doesnt mean that everyone follows those rules and I been to several doctors with several test and tgey all tell me the same thing

[sarah_ab]

symptoms are what people have...... signs are what can be shown thru medical testing, observation (for example you can see swelling or redness) and imaging...

it is possible for a person to have many symptoms that are similar to another disease, but testing reveals they do not have that disease.... thats why its a syndrome... there are symptoms, but as of yet, no signs that can be seen or observed thru imaging....

ex: symptom : stomach pain, diarrhea,

sign : biopsies from the colon/intestines show inflammation and bacteria consistant with say Crohn's.

another ex: symtpoms: stomach pain, diarrhea

signs: all testing is nml, no abnormalties on imaging, blood work, biopsies.... the person has symptoms, but no concrete reason can be found.. YET... so they create a syndrome, given to people who have common symptoms but none of the signs.

but not all syndromes are somatic or sociogenic.... for example tourette's syndrome... the person has symptoms - which are tics, which are also signs, yet there are no other forms of testing to verify that everyone who meets the criteria for tourette syndrome has it... because they have yet to identify the exact cause... so therefore you cannot test for it...... sooooo does that mean that all people with tourette syndrome have a somatic disorder? or are suffering from a mass sociogenic disorder?

i really hope you say no..... because there ARE double blind studies done for tourette syndrome.....

and one could argue that a placebo IS a form of treatment, because if it is psychological, and the person is given a pill and told it could make them better, and they believe it is medicine and they get better, then really they ARE being treated in one form or another...... soooo.... if hte placebo works, it doesn't mean its not a real condition..... and not all physical problems with no medical signs are somatic....for example, depression is not a somataform disorder, but it has very real physical symptoms. Anxiety is not a somataform disorder, but it too has very real physical symptoms. and for both of these, placebo's often do not work. Besides in ANY study there is always some success in the placebo group....

[Diapered Wookie]

I was misdiagnosed with IBS years ago. It turned out to be something much more serious. You should get a second or third opinion. I had tumors on bowells and they could have killed me. Go see another doc and ask for a colonoscopy.

I had one done a couple months ago for hemorrhoids. They didn't find anything else.

[Little BabyDoll Christine]

A "syndrome" is a condition that feeds back on itself

If you are having symptoms and no physical cause is observed after more than routine testing; time to see a behavior modification specialist

The use of placebo treatment, and it does work but when it does so, we are no longer talking about medical treatment, we have entered the realm of psychotherapy, in which case the symptoms are "all in one's head" and the proper diagnosis is some kind of conversion hysteria. In which case just move on to cognitive therapy, which is the fix for that kind of thing, rather than gobbling down sugar pills for the next 30-50 years. As I said earlier, a good behavior specialist will make sure that she is not dealing with an undiangnosed physical illness. I can teach a person to ignore symptoms by breaking the Vicious Circle Syndrome (Lachman. Sheldon). If there is an undiagnosed medical condtion and you do this with regard to the symptoms, that could be dangerous. On the other hand, if there is a non-threatening,condition with weak to moderate symptomology, this kind of treatment can enable the patient to live a decent life.

Here is an example that happened to me. I have had chronic sinusitis since I was 12. Now there is something of which the symptom map is a nightmare. One of which is dizzy spells as the mucous moves around, Well ond day in 1976, I got a dizzy spell and a shooting pain in the right side of my body radiationg to the arm. (I was not aware that the dizzy spell was a symptom of sinusitis). You know what that soundsl like, right? well off th the doc I went after getting more of these pains. I was absolutely convinced I was in line for heart disease. I gave him the symptom list and he immediately said it was gastro-enteritis and precribed Bentyl and Phenobarbitol, I did not like the way they slowed me down and told him; to which he said "learn to cope". Now I was in no way visibly stresses,in fact I was on a 5 year roll. When he said that, I was aware that some kind of b-mod process was in order because the symptoms had gotten "a life of their own", it was then that one of my instructors steered me to Lachman and I knew all the tricks: breathing techniques and thoughtstopping which substitues another set of thoughts for the now-learned response to the onset of symptoms. Then take a baseling of symptom occurrance and then track over time. I leater learned from experience that the dizzy spells were caused when I moved my head from one position to another and material in my sunus cavities moved. But all it took to start the whole mess off was just one simultaneous occurrance of the gastro-enteritis and the sinusitis and we were off to the races I also learned that shortly after the low-grade pains, I burped and you would be suprised at where some of these pains occur. shoulder, arms and chest. Breathing techniaue forces the body to relax by changing the relative level of oxygen to carbon dioxide in the blood. If you have hever hyperventallated then you know what I am talking about in terms of effects. Partial hyperventallation causes relaxation. I have used breathing/thoughtstopping in a casual manner to assist a person I knew in dealing with panic attacks. Unfortunately, he did not follow my long-term advice and get a full, professional treatment (either medical or psychological) and last I heard, they were returning (I told him that what I showed him was only a temporary fix).

Also as far as symptomology goes, there are, as part of ordinary life, "flash pain" incidents where one gets a low-grade pain for no medical or psychological reason, it is just random

With respect to illness. one of the ways of classifying symptoms are as "indicated" or "contra-indicated". this is also used in determining the advisability of using a specific med. If you come in with a set of symptoms, the doctor can look them up and see what they indicate or contra-indicate. This is true for what are called Minimal Brain Dysfunctions for which we don't know the physical cause but are awared of a "constellation" of symptoms that indicate and contra-indicate. Psychological testing, since we are dealing almost totally with non-physiological parameters and often non-normative ones (not illness realted so there is no mental illness factor, just a trait that might be useful to develop a specific skill), relies heavily on indication/contra-indication constellations. A "constellation" is a set of parameters that occurr consistently with regard to strength and lead one to coclude that x is or is not the case. If we have catalogued and identified them as being a constellation then we know there is something there. In causes where things are reported that does not fit the (pretty exhaustive) material in the catalogs, the symptoms are regarded as unrelated.

I tend to be suspicious of new diseases. Brain disorders are a beast to deal with and diagnosis is done by hypothesis meaning we see the symptoms and we know their constellations and that there is an area or property of the brain to which these symptoms can be attributed. The brain has been well mapped. However some of the latest thinking on the matter is that "brain state" plays a part in things. Also the idea of things like "centers", such as speech centers has fallen out of favor and replaced by lebelling these areas as "associated with [speech, hearing, movement, etc]". In fact some of the more interesting material is outside the realm of "pop" psych.and clinical psych. I cannot get enough of Piaget for developmental learning psych, The resutls of his work have been physiologically verified by changes in the weight of the brain as measured in the 1980's some 90 years after his work. Maria Montessori was a brilliant educator from the late 1800's whose work in education paralelled that of Piaget

Psycho-surgery has changed due to micro-neurolgy. The days of the prefrontla lobotomy are long gone as we can now identify almost specific nerves that affect things and you cannot even tell a psycho-surgery patient from a normal person for the most part.. Also cranial-pharmacology has had good results. The very valuable anti-cancer drug Cytoxin was always a bear since it also had the classic nasty chemotherapy side effects. This was due to the fact that, since it was a systemic drug, it got into areas of the brain that were associated with these side effects, Now whe have drugs that are administered prior to the Cytoxin that block it from getting into these parts. and if one drug does not work we have five more. I know, I've been there. I made the chemotherapy treatments I got for lymphoma look like a walk in the park due to the pre-administered drug (the name of which I forgot)

Some of the sexy diseases like ADD/ADHD are just excuse-labels for known conditions. In this case, hyperactivity. That has been known since the 1960's.and affects about 6% of the population. Ritalin, a stimulant, which you would think would be the last thing you would wnat to use, works by stimulating that area of the brain that is associated with attention focus

[sarah_ab]

I typed up a great response, but realized its not worth it, ignorance will never change.

[Little BabyDoll Christine]

I know exactly what you mean. I have seen much of it in the media and among those who have been misled. The whole diet/supplement industry thrives on it to the extent where they had laws passed. led by Orrin Hatch and Tom Harkin to exempt themselves form the same rules by which the other industries have to play, particularly with regard to medical claims, mostly about cancer, macular degeneration and heart disease.