Can We Stop Misusing The Term "Incontinent?"

[AndB]

Please, I've had enough. I've had enough of ABs saying they want to be "incontinent."

Incontinence is a medical condition, and is a malfunction of your body. Saying you wish your systems didn't function correctly is probably not what you're trying to say. What you want is to re-train yourself to use diapers, and replace your toilet training with diaper training. I am not going to tell you whether or not you should do this, and I'm not going to judge your choice.

"Incontinent" is not what babies and toddlers are. They are un-trained. They often feel it coming but lack the muscle tone to hold, and lack the knowledge that they should go to the toilet. But they are (generally) not "incontinent."

If you want to wear diapers full time, go ahead. If you want to retrain yourself to use your diapers rather than the toilet, be my guest. But it is not "incontinence."

[diaperlover27]

I know that what I am doing is diaper training, but as I continue this training, I will begin to permanently deteriorate my bladder and have complete loss of control. Theoretically, this will enable me medically incontinent because I will have lost bladder function I will never be able to regain, much like those who are 'medically incontinent' and not by choice. Even though in my situation it is self inflicted, this is a former lifestyle of mine and however hard it may seem for those of you who would rather wish not be in diapers for life, it is a life I want and more then to just satisfy a 'fetish'.

[TDL]

I agree with diaperlover27. If your bladder muscles are too loose, or the sphincters are inactive, you ARE indeed medically incontinent. Just not naturally.

[LuvsGurl]

Please, I've had enough. I've had enough of ABs saying they want to be "incontinent."

Incontinence is a medical condition, and is a malfunction of your body. Saying you wish your systems didn't function correctly is probably not what you're trying to say. What you want is to re-train yourself to use diapers, and replace your toilet training with diaper training. I am not going to tell you whether or not you should do this, and I'm not going to judge your choice.

"Incontinent" is not what babies and toddlers are. They are un-trained. They often feel it coming but lack the muscle tone to hold, and lack the knowledge that they should go to the toilet. But they are (generally) not "incontinent."

If you want to wear diapers full time, go ahead. If you want to retrain yourself to use your diapers rather than the toilet, be my guest. But it is not "incontinence."

Perhaps you should look up the medical definition of incontinence, specifically the term Functional Incontinence.

Functional incontinence occurs when a person recognizes the need to urinate, but cannot physically make it to the bathroom in time... Causes of functional incontinence include unwillingness to toilet... or being in a situation in which it is impossible to reach a toilet. Disease or biology is not necessarily the cause of functional incontinence. For example, someone on a road trip may be between rest stops and on the highway; also, there may be problems with the restrooms in the vicinity of a person.

So, if we go by the definition, ABDLs who choose to use their diapers instead of the toilet are functionally incontinent.

How is the term being misused?

[AutieAB]

So, if we go by the definition, ABDLs who choose to use their diapers instead of the toilet are functionally incontinent.

I'm with the OP on this. Functional incontinence is a symptom of another condition (e.g. Alzheimer's Disease, learning disability, etc, etc, etc). I'd wager that "unwillingness to toilet", as Wiki delightfully puts it, means for example, combative patients not lifestyle choice. The other examples it gives are 'unfortunate accidents' and while they may be 'episodes of incontinence' they do not make a person incontinent.

Ultimately, people who 'untrain' themselves are not 'incontinent' because at the end of the day, there is absolutely nothing stopping them from retraining themselves again beyond their own personal choice. Somebody who is incontinent as a result of some medical or mental issue does not have that luxury except perhaps via medical/surgical intervention - a critical difference IMO. On a day to day basis, being incontinent and being 'untrained' may be similar but that difference is always there - being untrained is always a choice.

[LuvsGurl]

I'm with the OP on this. Functional incontinence is a symptom of another condition...

Up until very recently Infantilism (ABDL) was classified as a mental disorder by the DSM. To this day many medical professionals say that someone who forgoes toileting and uses diapers instead needs mental help.

You may not like it, but this fits the definition of Functional Incontinence.

[Guest NaughtyAshes]

Perhaps you should look up the medical definition of incontinence, specifically the term Functional Incontinence.

Functional incontinence occurs when a person recognizes the need to urinate, but cannot physically make it to the bathroom in time... Causes of functional incontinence include unwillingness to toilet... or being in a situation in which it is impossible to reach a toilet. Disease or biology is not necessarily the cause of functional incontinence. For example, someone on a road trip may be between rest stops and on the highway; also, there may be problems with the restrooms in the vicinity of a person.

So, if we go by the definition, ABDLs who choose to use their diapers instead of the toilet are functionally incontinent.

How is the term being misused?

QFT, un-potty training results in medical incontinence.

[KittenAB]

You know ... this kind of debate is just plain silly, and the reason most people with mental disabilities have such a hard time in life to begin with. Are we who have a physical cause for incontinence that arrogant? If so, let me off the short bus please. Seriously, a technical word doesn't entail that something should be an undesirable consequence, it's just a label used to describe something.

As for the "babies are not incontinent" ... that's just silly.

As long as those who choose it do not expect anyone else to cover their bills and never blame someone else for what befalls them, it's their life, let them live it. Seriously, this "us vs. them" mentality is too much strain on everyone from both sides of the track. So what if a white person wants to call themselves African ... same holds true for someone who chooses to give themselves incontinence .... it's a label and nothing more.

[babykeiff]

Andb,

are you really sick of what you percieve the misuse of the term incontinence, OR in my humble opinion, sick of the association as it applies to YOU - ie you have a malfunction of your body which causes you to be dependent on diapers and/or other forms of protection, and this is permanant - ie medical science can't/won't in its current state, fix this body malfunction. From your own post description

FYI: http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=3958

Dictionary Definition

Incontinence: Inability to control excretions.

NOWHERE in the definition of the word does it explain a reason for said inability. Said inability could be

1 - Lack of / poor / insufficient muscle tone

2 - Hypnosis

3 - Lack of / poor / insufficient mental ability.

Therefore, if a person choses to fully relinquilish their ability to control excretions, over time, due to athrophy of associated muscles, said person will no longer have ability to control excretions. It does not say that said person can't be retrained, but the definition of said person is 'INCONTINENT', despite what you, or anyone else wishes to call it.

[Cruiser 03]

i think the part we all get stuck at is these people do not just "Man Up" and put on a diaper and use it , they play silly little games of trying t get the "label" to Justify them doing so, Much like a drug addict first starts as a prescribed medication user and then gets out off control and gets "labled" it was harmless in the begining but the ending not so much. In our society it was taught to all of us that "babies" wear diapers and you are a big boy/girl "right" so goes the whole toilet training thing ,and because of this and because of advertisers like "Depend" the only people that society accepts as diaper wearers is babies and the aged and infirm and people with obvious physical deformities or disabilities such as myself if i'm anywhere near the adult diapers in walmart customers appear out of the thin air trying to help me buy diapers, even though i use cloth primarily and my Dispoables shipped direct from the Manufacturer and was just cutting through to get to the pharmacy. so instead of looking for a way to get the "label" so your Friends and Family arent embarassed when you come out of the closet about wanting to be diaper trained. SO shut UP man UP Diaper UP and be done with the issue, its a free country if you want to wear a fire engine read mohawk ultra thick diapers and a onesie to town people will look and just shake there head just as the do at everyone who expresse individuality and then there are those who will say cool mohawk i had a purple one like five years ago. For real people stop seeking a label you spend more time talking about wishing for and try to train your bladder to weaken than you spend diapered and just enjoying whatever aspect it is about diapers you enjoy.

Peace

May the Calmoseptine be with you!

[Bettypooh]

IMHO the term "Incontinent" is generally understood to mean a lack of control How that happened is not specified in defining the word Many women 'leak', or become incontinent, for awhile during and/or after pregnancy- sometimes this is temporary and sometimes not, so the duration of the incontinence has no bearing on it's definition

If the OP had said "Medically Incontinent" then I would have disagreed because that is different than self-induced incontinence It seems that some people have issues with others because the others are different or they want something different Even though my own little leakage is not of my choosing (which makes me incontinent), out of respect for the opinions and feelings of others I don't start threads here because I don't mind my wetting myself- in fact I kind of like it. This forum is therefore not for me. This part of the forums was designed for those who are incontinent against their wishes. Those desiring incontinence need to post in the "Incontinent Desires" forum.

As a moderator I don't want to see anyone bashing anyone else, and this thread is on the verge of that. Please tolerate and respect those with different viewpoints. If you learn to understand others you might find more understanding heading your way in return. If that doesn't happen and things get nasty moderation action will be taken. Debate nicely or don't post- that goes for everyone no matter which forum you're in.

Bettypooh

[diaperpt]

Thanks Bettypooh. Baby Kieff may be right, and said kind of what I was thinking, but not in as kind a way as I would have expressed it. I can understand that the OP has legitimate feelings, but I also see where it relates to those feelings more than the actually technical definition. From there, I thought KittenAB was pretty much on.

We don't need to be mean spirited at all - why can't we support the OP and at the same time, make the point that the word 'incontinent' carries a lot of baggage for a lot of us - whether or not we are medically so, wish to be functionally so, or aren't in either place but simply enjoy our diapers?

[AndB]

So by people's definition, choosing to wear diapers = functional incontinence. Then why do you see people saying they "want to be incontinent?" By that definition of functional incontinence, they already are. Why such a focus on "becoming" incontinent when all you really have to do is go buy some Depends?

[KittenAB]

So by people's definition, choosing to wear diapers = functional incontinence. Then why do you see people saying they "want to be incontinent?" By that definition of functional incontinence, they already are. Why such a focus on "becoming" incontinent when all you really have to do is go buy some Depends?

That you would have to look into a lot of differing reasons, and I mean a lot. Here's the thing about life, and being human is part of that, there's so many colors in a rainbow you could never possibly name them all.

[Bettypooh]

We don't need to be mean spirited at all - why can't we support the OP and at the same time, make the point that the word 'incontinent' carries a lot of baggage for a lot of us -

You can do that with my blessings- as can anyone I'm not here to censor, I'm here to make sure the rules are followed and no wars get started I understand the sensitivity of some on this forum towards 'outsiders' so I am tighter on posts here that come from non-incontinent members and want-to-be incontinent members

I'm just trying to keep the peace and if any incontinent members have comments on the 'closer look" I take here please PM me and let me know whether to tighten up, loosen up, or just keep on as-is.

This is your forum and I'll moderate it the way the majority of you like.

All the other forums will just have to put up with me

Bettypooh

[Cruiser 03]

Andb,

are you really sick of what you percieve the misuse of the term incontinence, OR in my humble opinion, sick of the association as it applies to YOU - ie you have a malfunction of your body which causes you to be dependent on diapers and/or other forms of protection, and this is permanant - ie medical science can't/won't in its current state, fix this body malfunction. From your own post description

FYI: http://www.medterms....articlekey=3958

Dictionary Definition

Incontinence: Inability to control excretions.

NOWHERE in the definition of the word does it explain a reason for said inability. Said inability could be

1 - Lack of / poor / insufficient muscle tone

2 - Hypnosis

3 - Lack of / poor / insufficient mental ability.

Therefore, if a person choses to fully relinquilish their ability to control excretions, over time, due to athrophy of associated muscles, said person will no longer have ability to control excretions. It does not say that said person can't be retrained, but the definition of said person is 'INCONTINENT', despite what you, or anyone else wishes to call it.

If you seek to get the "label" of incontinent" via lack of /poor/ insufficient Mental Ability you will definately get a label from the State Office of Mental Health that runs the Adult Psychiatric Hospital in your State, because an inability or unwillingness to complete ADL's (activities of daily living) in most States and commonwealths will result in an involuntary commitment of 90 days for evaluation(for your safety) and if you play the I'm a dim bulb in the socket routine you will end up either in a locked diminished capacity ward at the State Nursing home for the rest of your life, or you admit this was all a game to get that label and you end up never getting it and having to see a therapist and psychiatrist and take meds until they think you are no longer unstable. And no i'm not an expert i'm just Incontinent and have experience working in the Mental health field.

Peace

[riflemanjon]

be careful of what you wish for. i worn for 2 years and 6 months. imagine having to stop what your doing and having to find some where to change. i change 8 times a day. i don't feel how wet my diaper is against my skin. i have to psychical take my fingers and see how squish the diaper is. i leak a lot of time and wet pants at work is no fun. plus i spend about 1500 dollars a year on diapers. i am sitting here dribbling in my diaper. i hunt and i have to figure what i need to put on not leak in the woods. plus having to go all the way back out to the vehicle to change in this cold weather. i hall of 3 garbage bags of diapers away a week. imagine the amount in a year in the landfill. plus having 3 diaper pails. i spend 6 dollars a day on diapers roughly. when my bladder release there is no stopping it if your diaper is full and your in the store you better know where the restroom is. then having to carry your used diaper from the stall to garbage and try not to run into people you know. do i like wearing diapers yes some times. but i get so tired of having to go and change. i know what a women feels like on her period but i change almost 2 times more in a week.

[Cruiser 03]

be careful of what you wish for. i worn for 2 years and 6 months. imagine having to stop what your doing and having to find some where to change. i change 8 times a day. i don't feel how wet my diaper is against my skin. i have to psychical take my fingers and see how squish the diaper is. i leak a lot of time and wet pants at work is no fun. plus i spend about 1500 dollars a year on diapers. i am sitting here dribbling in my diaper. i hunt and i have to figure what i need to put on not leak in the woods. plus having to go all the way back out to the vehicle to change in this cold weather. i hall of 3 garbage bags of diapers away a week. imagine the amount in a year in the landfill. plus having 3 diaper pails. i spend 6 dollars a day on diapers roughly. when my bladder release there is no stopping it if your diaper is full and your in the store you better know where the restroom is. then having to carry your used diaper from the stall to garbage and try not to run into people you know. do i like wearing diapers yes some times. but i get so tired of having to go and change. i know what a women feels like on her period but i change almost 2 times more in a week.

wouldnt it be grand if they would put a garbage can in the Handicapped stall,especially in stores that do not have "Family Bathrooms", and hunting and a wet diaper like they wont smell you coming, man that sucks all the deer pee scent in the world wont cover that so you have to out fox those suckers. i'm in a wheelchair so when my diaper's leak i have to change them my pants and wash my cushion cover and the cushion so i dont wheel around stinkin. I have decreased the number of diapers in the trash by going to cloth, i highly recomend this to anyone who is "incon" in the begining the financial outlay is big but everytime you wash and wear you are getting money back and some people have gotten a decade out of there cloth diapers and then they became rags to clean the car, they last a long time.

Peace

[KittenAB]

Oh my gosh... Where the heck is the cheese?

I mean, there is so much whine.

If you don't like the use of the word "incontinent" by those who wish to become incontinent, then maybe a diaper fetish discussion board isn't the place to hang out.

I've been discussing and researching this issue in general for well over fifteen years now. For those who wish to go down this road, caveat emptor; but it is for that person to understand the trials and tribulations they will endure.

Incontinence is involuntary control of something. Be it the mind or the bladder, or elsewhere, the only defining issue is its voluntary nature. If one seeks surgery, or uses a regression training program, if the result is involuntary control it is therefore incontinence. Tough tiddlywinks if you wish the definition be changed, and I offer no apology since the universe doesn't revolve around you.

For those who haven't noticed, Daily Diapers is a discussion board for adult-babies and diaper fetishists. It is not primarily an incontinence board, even though it offers a segregated medical incontinence section. By-and-large, the segregation remains; and in case it doesn't, there are moderators to keep people on the proper path. If this sort of discussion disturbs you, then you are in fact in the wrong place.

I should mention it isn't a good idea to speak of any evils of gender reassignment to the transgendered population; or comment negatively on the perils of amputation to those with a body identity disorder. That would be just as silly as this...

Oh, and Happy Thanksgiving...

Considering most medical "professionals" still regard transgender as being a mental disorder. LOL ... go figure ... want bigger boobs here's a boob job, want a genital modification "you're sick in the head."

[Total Trash]

Incontinence is a medical condition, and is a malfunction of your body. Saying you wish your systems didn't function correctly is probably not what you're trying to say. What you want is to re-train yourself to use diapers, and replace your toilet training with diaper training.

I'm pretty sure there are people here for whom it's a medical fetish rather than an age play fetish, in which case they would be using "incontinence" to refer to a medical condition.

Also, I consider myself a post-structuralist and reject the notion of a "self." So if incontinence=lack of choice, would rejecting the notion of choice make me incontinent?

[rickibrat2]

to me it looks like once again the medical area has been hi jacked by others that want to play in diapers and have no understanding of what life is like in diapers for real

[Bettypooh]

to me it looks like once again the medical area has been hi jacked by others that want to play in diapers and have no understanding of what life is like in diapers for real

It's close to that- and I'm still watching I still haven't heard from anyone on how I should moderate here so I guess I'm doing OK And I agree- until you feel the worry of leaking and have to deal with inconvenient diaper changes against your wishes and on a regular basis you don't know all about incontinence on a personal level I'm no expert there either though I've had some bad days which were near-nightmares to get through In the end it's just life so you do what you have to and go on with it

Bettypooh

[AndB]

It's close to that- and I'm still watching I still haven't heard from anyone on how I should moderate here so I guess I'm doing OK And I agree- until you feel the worry of leaking and have to deal with inconvenient diaper changes against your wishes and on a regular basis you don't know all about incontinence on a personal level I'm no expert there either though I've had some bad days which were near-nightmares to get through In the end it's just life so you do what you have to and go on with it

Bettypooh

Bettypooh, you're doing fine. Keep it up.

I'm not a non-incontinent person hijacking the forum. I don't judge anyone who "wants to be incontinent," but on the other hand, I don't think that choosing to wear diapers makes one incontinent. Most of the people who desire it have no idea what they are asking for, and that's part of my reaction.

[babykeiff]

For the purpose of this post, there are two groups of people in the world, and both overlap -

Group 1 - Those who wear diapers to try and conform to social normality - ie if they didn't, they would constantly be in wet and/or messy pants.

Group 2 - Those who wish the social normality would accept their choice to wear diapers.

Both are trying to change a perceived social norm... which doesn't work.

Currently in this thread, their is an argument brewing between Group 1 and Group 2. Let us compare...

--------------------------------- Group 1 - Group 2

Underwear Choice...............YES......YES

Diapers Leak........................YES......YES

Embarrassed with Leakage..YES......YES

The list can go on, but in reality, both groups of people freely chose when to wear diapers, and freely chose what to do when a leak occurs. In simple terms, if you wear and use diapers, they WILL get wet/messy. After a time, the diaper WILL reach saturation point and WILL leak. When you wet/mess a diaper that has reached saturation point IT WILL LEAK. Both groups of people KNOW this, and to avoid leakage, need to take action.

This seems extremly simple to me, that when a diaper is wet, CHANGE IT. Despite what group you belong to, diapers need to be changed after a preset time. This was worked out years ago - that is the reason for 'night weight' diapers = it allows a longer time between diaper change.

The use of the word 'incontinence' has really nothing to do with the differences / similarities between Group 1 and Group 2. The word 'organisation' has. Each choice comes with a series of consequences, and it takes ORGANIZATION to handle them.

Does Group 1 require pity. Does Group 2 require acceptance. If so, why?

DD, I thought, is a group of people who chose to wear diapers. I have yet to encounter either Mike (DD Owner) or any of the administrative team criticizing a members choice for wearing diapers OR telling members that they can't. We all wear diapers, why then can't we accept each other for that fact alone.

I don't let my choice of undergarments dictate my life, and neither should you.

[AndB]

DD, I thought, is a group of people who chose to wear diapers. I have yet to encounter either Mike (DD Owner) or any of the administrative team criticizing a members choice for wearing diapers OR telling members that they can't. We all wear diapers, why then can't we accept each other for that fact alone.

I don't let my choice of undergarments dictate my life, and neither should you.

I'm not criticizing anybody's choice to wear diapers. I said more than once that if you want to wear diapers, by all means do so. I can accept anyone's choice, I just don't like applying the "incontinent" mantle on everybody that wears diapers.