ozziebee

Here's an exercise you can do, to help your mind understand what everyone above has suggested. The exercise is this. Choose a day this week, and go out to a coffee shop to treat yourself to a coffee and something to eat. While you're at the shop, do the one thing my mum loved to do - people-watch. Spend a few minutes to just sit and observe the people around you, those walking around outside the shop, and going about their daily lives. What are they doing? Who are they noticing? Ok, now close your eyes. Let your ears do the observing for you. Observe the sounds around you. Is the environment quiet, or loud? Do you think a quiet crinkle would get lost in the noise of busy life and activities? You likely see people lost in their phones (especially if they're sitting down), tuned out to music through headphones, chatting to their companions, but not looking around thinking "does that person wear a nappy?". Even mildly out-there fashion attire these days goes unnoticed. Next time, go out to the coffee shop once more, wearing a nappy under your clothes. Do exactly the same exercises above. You will slowly come to realise that noone cares what you're wearing, or doing. Have fun with the activities above, and let us know how you go!

I've been post-op many many years (well, actually longer than before the op). Haven't regretted that decision even now. When I did, it was about three days post-surgery, and all I thought about was "what's the family going to say and do about this new reality", but never was or has ever been "gee, I screwed up and should never have gone thorugh with it". Yes, much like what we go through when doing 24/7 in nappies, come to think of it. Yes, in the initial healing stage you need to keep the surgery site clean, but don't be obsessive about it. They told me to wash down there with warm water from a jug, but that was really about it. It's all we can do when at home. Minimal/gentle exercise so as not to stretch the stitch sites and wounds, daily showers, warm baths, and take it easy. Keep things dry, and it will all heal up. I think I was back experimenting with nappies about a week after I got home! The sensations were _totally_ different! When the swelling went down - even more so!

I second the BetterDry. Alternative would be the Rearz Incontrol elite Hybrid (which has the velcro tabs). In addition to this, I'd recommend a pair of PUL cover (like the Gary Activewear PUL), and a onesie. You can get all of the above in plain white, or go with a plain black onesie. The onesie is to keep everything nice and snug, and hide any evidence of diaper showing above your pants. Because you are active, look around for some diaper rash cream, like Sudocrem, and apply that to your bits, butt, and the insides of your legs at your groin where the diaper and PUL cover sit, as you will get red rub marks which will turn sore after a while. You can powder up everywhere else.

The theory I came up with for un-potty training is that one's continence level waxes and wanes, and could be described by a sine wave. If there are two horizontal lines describing a full level of control, and no control (what we would consider the goal of un-potty training), the sine wave will ebb slowly along the horizontal time axis dipping down towards no control as your effort at un-training progresses, and then back up towards control as events cause movement back towards control (i.e. going to the toilet to do #1 when your nappy is off, reinforcing your control, or clenching at the sign of a pee urge because now-is-not-the-time-as-diaper-will-leak, etc), and back down again as you continue to reinforce un-potty training. Not following Brian's advice above will cause the sine wave to trend upwards. Initially, the peaks of the graph will stubbornly sit at/above the in-control line, but after a time, as training progresses, the peaks won't quite reach that line. Same with the troughs, which will initially be a long way away from the no-control line, but gradually move towards it. The period of the sine wave will get shorter and shorter as you progress. Observation of people on here suggests that vacillation back towards control seems very brief when people are far along the path. I need to reinforce internally what Brian said above: I was 3.5yrs down the track of unpotty training, but one day during the initial COVID lockdowns, I mused that changing was becoming a chore, and because I'd recently discovered my undies in a backpack I'd stashed away all those years ago, I changed back into them, and began moving from wearing undies, to wearing diapers, and back again as my mood changed. You are absolutely correct when you talk about mechanical lockin - I should have thrown out those undies, but I didn't back then. A large part of the chore mentality included my desire to lose control of #2, but my body saying no. I'd dabble with the idea, and find cleanup quite messy, and then my body would react by clenching up hard when I really needed to go (even though I was in a nappy), and that became quite painful. The poop urges would leave me standing there on the spot shaking from the pain. I'd inevitably get very hard and large stool I'd have to strain to get out into the toilet at the next diaper change. So, I'd go wear undies for a while, and suffer through the inevitable leaks and wet undies, which would cause rashes and itchiness down there, so my mind would go "if I'm in a diaper, no rashes, no ichiness, no wet knickers", so I'd be back in diapers again. Remember that sine wave? I found that even after 3.5 years of 24/7 nappies, I still had control of #1 outside of nappies, although I would have leakage, and a fair amount of stress IC (laughing, sneezing especially). I also found on almost every #1 cleanup, I'd find skidmarks in my undies, and poop back there. So I introduced pullups into the mix. Not long after starting with pullups, I think I came to a realisation that I really NEEDED to be in diapers for both my mental sanity, and my physical sanitation. So I had a "chat" to my mum (who been gone now for 10 years) about accepting the NEED to lose control of #2. I've been wearing diapers again for a few months now, and been actively working towards loss of control of #2 as well. I'm now ok with that aspect, and cleanup has been largely not an issue. I haven't worked out whether I should be pushing when an urge hits, or just do "nothing" and let it do its thing. I'm ok with the idea that, at some point, I will wake up messy, and I will rejoice. what I've noticed is that, letting go of control of #2 greatly helps with the progress of #1. During the day, I wet fairly frequently, but do it as small to medium-sized floods. My only advance notice of some of these (particularly the larger wettings) is a sight tingle and a feeling of tummy discomfort. Then a few seconds later, it starts. Other times, I get gravity wees, and other times again, I can feel my bowel content move around, and my bladder will release. I dabble in AB stuff too, so a bottle at night will set me off to sleep. i've noticed that, without fail, I'll wet whilst drinking my bottle. Very very weird sensation that is! Remember that sine wave?

Hehe, love the update - so funny! I do wonder whether there is a market for consultation around living with incontinence. With my interactions with Continence Nurses, they have a very narrow view of what products are out there beyond what can be purchased from the two major distributors we have here in Australia. We know that it is absolutely possible to go 12+hrs on one change, with no leaks, given the right products, and to be largely odor-free. Sure, the individual product may be more expensive, but _in the long run_ they're cheaper, and provide opportunities for a better quality of life.

Oh, this happens all the time for me. I don't spend long in a fresh clean nappy, unfortunately. Dunno where it all comes from, as I sometimes sit on the toilet to make sure everything is out before changing.

You'll find that prostate problems largely disappear the longer one has been on estrogen therapy and post-op MTF, with all the other bits gone. I've had ultrasounds done down there as part of investigations to why I'm having urinary issues, and the person doing the ultrasound has often mentioned that my prostate is extremely small. I had scarring in my urethra, which was removed in a second surgery 6 months after my gender-affirming surgery. My urinary investigations revealed I need a Cuda cath if I ever need catheterisation, as straight caths don't go in...

Are you separating each square of the bamboo liner? I do not tear them away into individual sheets. Try with three squares connected, which should stretch from the front to back. Your butt will “anchor” the back of the three sheets and keep them in position. That said, I’m also using baby cloth terry nappies inside as soakers too, which help heaps to wick towards the back.

I've also found that my stretch fix netting pants are also quite good at slurping up any minor leaks. The Stretch fix pants I'm referring to are currently iD Fix Comfort Super pants, which are a stretchy netting pant I wear directly over the nappy, and is excellent at keeping velcro-like tabs in place, and not letting the nappy feel like it's about to fall off when those tabs sometimes part from their backing. Over that nappy + fix pant combo I wear plastic pants, and have recently also started wearing Bonds Cottontail stretchy underwear, which keeps the crinkle down, and really compresses the entire ensemble, so nothing moves - divine feeling!

I'll preface this bit of advice with the fact I'm a girl, and girls pee down into the middle of a diaper, which means it tends to wick both towards the front and back of the diaper a bit more evenly. What I've found works well for wicking is terry towelling cloth baby nappies folded lengthwise into a pad, and inserted into the disposable. On top of that, I place a continuous length of 3 x bamboo nappy liners, from the front of the nappy, to the back - on an XL nappy, the three sheets will lay flat and cover from the front to back easily. The liner is tucked into the insides of the leg gathers. I don't think they help very much with wicking, but do help to minimise the mess of a BM against the terry towelling nappy pad. It is possible to find more "adult-sized" bamboo liners, which are slightly wider, and slightly longer. I'm also now adding another folded cloth pad across the inside back of the disposable, from left tapes to right tapes, which is especially useful when lying down on my side, and feeling pee run down my butt crack onto the small of my back, then turn and head towards the no-padded side of the nappy under the influence of gravity. During the day, and most nights, it doesn't get wet, so I can reuse it. Yes, this means you get to wash more cloth nappies, but these are cheap to buy. I'd love to have some 80cm square cloth nappies made, as these would be ideal for front to back wicking. One thing you might check for the leaks is the Barry tends to have edge of the rear wing stuffing a bit too close to the edge of the outer sheets. So, it'll curl over on itself multiple times and be crushed in the fold between you crotch and leg, as you put the nappy on and exercise during the day. This may be especially true if one thigh is slightly larger than the other.

My view on the idea of medically-induced U-IC / F-IC via surgery is that it should be made available to those who would qualify for it, in much the same way as reassignment surgery is made available. Access should be granted after a patient has been under the care of a psychiatrist, have been living the life, with the right support. Maybe do a period of time beforehand of using a stent or similar non-permanent system, before surgery is granted.

You have to remember that your urethra is now a tiny fraction of the length it was prior to surgery. The urethra has been cut down to the prostate. With all the work and cutting having been done, and sutures and scarring, the way your pelvic muscles react will have changes too. So short answer, dont stress.

I was near your location a few weeks back, but time wasn’t on my side to organise something. Even had thoughts of dropping in to our favourite supplier. Next time!

Ive been getting a lot of pee releases when I feel bowel movements around there, seemingly as stool moves past the bladder it triggers a spasm and release. I can also just rest my hand/arm over my nappy, which elicites a similar response. I don’t know whether my bladder is full, and weight triggers a stress response, or the bladder being moved triggers a spasm and urge. Very weird either way.

The Tykables are pretty good, and about on par with Barry (they're so similar I've wondered whether they're from the same machine/source). I bought a few cases of the Tykables a month or so ago, and before then a case of Betterdry, so I think I'm ok with supply for a while (about 4 months supply if my math is ok). I have been extending my daily nappies through use of 60x60 terry cloth baby nappies folded as a soaker pad. It's a bit of washing, but the nappy life gets extended quite a bit.

In some cases, by a Dr doing nothing/refusing surgery, they may actually add to the pain that the patient is experiencing. The patient's mental attitude may be so great that it ultimately comes down to a "I'd rather be dead than deal with the continued anguish of not being IC". There are also lots of cases of people attempting to simulate incontinence by use of stents etc requiring emergency intervention. Some of those are having to do this due to such mental anguish of continence dysphoria. This is an _exact_ match for the question of transgender - it literally gets to the point of "if I cannot transition, I'd rather die, because I cannot live like this". In the days gone by (before T was added to LGB), for some people it was nigh on impossible to transition, and even more so to afford the costs to pay for the surgery, so that question was sometimes answered by suicide. Today, things are __sooo__ much easier to change documentation, be accepted by family and society, and even have some jurisdictions pay for hormones and surgery. Continence dysphoria does not just touch on the physical aspect of surgery to achieve total and permanent incontinence, but it also touches on the mental aspects driving the patient to ultimately commit to such surgery.

I don't see much difference between gender dysphoria and continence dysphoria (having been down the road of GD/Transgender, with surgery and all that). In order to qualify for surgery, I had to attend appointments over 1 year with a psychiatrist, have transitioned everything over (name change etc), living and dressing as female, be on hormones through an endocrinologist. After a year, I had to go see a second psychiatrist, who had to agree with the first psych's opinion. After that, I got the referral to the surgeon. Yes, the MtF surgery is non-reversable, but I suppose it would be possible to revert to the birth gender through hormonal changes and dressing up etc, and some kind of artificial phallus. I've never looked back. I'd expect a patient seeking incon surgery to have gone down some similar path, with a year or more of psych consultation, second opinions sought, urology reviews done, patient living 24x7 managing diaper training/dependency under supervision. If there is an medical option to perform temporary incon (stents, Botox, etc), then that should also be a gate along the path, as this provides everyone with an "out" if the incon is not tolerated/managed by the patient. After this stage, then TPI should be an option opened up to the patient. Someone on here who has attempted going down a path to TPI, and sought surgeons is @Ferix, who would be able to comment on their experience (TLDR couldn't find a surgeon).

Do you have any issues with drinking that much formula? It has lots of iron in it normally, so you may be setting yourself up for iron overload. Any other symptoms of having so much formula per day? I do love a drink of formula from time to time. A nice hot bottle at night is lovely heading into lala land.

I don't like medical diapers that claim to be "new and improved" yet have visibly weaker tabs which give way from their backing sheet after 20 minutes, and thinner padding meaning _more_ frequent changes (I'm looking at both Abena and Molicare here). A tab that's stretchy, but held onto its backing sheet by 1cm is never going to last long... and yet here we are paying more $$$ and getting an inferior product to boot.

I'm of the same thought as Oznl here. Four Betterdry's a day seems a bit excessive. Given that these things can hold about 2L of pee at max usage, if one was saturating these things before changing, that's up to about 8L of pee per day! Huge amount of pee! If one considers changing at about 1L or so, that's about 4L of pee per day? Still excessive, perhaps? Unless they're dirty (understandable to change more often), or sensitive skin?

The risk is this. If being incontinent to the point of peeing/pooping like a baby is your fantasy, and you somehow make it through many years of unpotty training, and something happens to shake that fantasy, you have a very difficult road ahead of you to repair that continence plus all the other social and medical stuff However, it’s not in the same league as being transgendered. Once that surgery happens, thats it. No turning back. (FYI - I am 20+ yrs post-op MtF, and still no regrets) BTW, when you have had to work 40 years, and you retire, it’s _actually_ time to party, with the toys and stuff you can now afford - long holidays, road trips not interrupted by work, hobbies, cruises, camping trips arou d the country… Looking forward to it all!

I'm currently evaluating use of cloth boosters within my disposables (either BetterDry or Rearz InControl Elite Hybrid or Tykables 7000ml). I started with a single folded 60cm x 60cm terry cloth flat nappy folded into a pad, and inserted. Then later have experimented wrapping the terry nappy inside a 70cm x 70cm flannel flat nappy, again folded into a long pad. This combo is glorious and thick and absorbent. Luxurious even. I've found that the booster will cause wicking to the front and back a bit more effectively than normal. At present, I'm trying bamboo inserts, which hold more than a standard cloth nappy. Two bamboo inserts wrapped in the 70cm sq flannel nappy to form a long pad, with some overlap right where I need it most (a girl pees down), and this is one very thick combo...

Related to this continued weak sphincter muscle response, I reckon I've definitely got stress IC at least. Bending over, having stool move around past my bladder, coughing, sneezing, all result in minor releases, with minimal sphincter response (though coughing does get the sphincter moving at least I've been feeling). In the middle of changes, when I've just taken my old nappy off, and cleaning myself up, I've had wee trickle down my legs and pool on the bathroom floor. The sensation of wetting uncontrollably down one's legs is surreal, strange, a bit naughty. For the past three weeks, I've settled on using a combination of both terry cloth and flannel cloth flat baby nappies as a soaker pad inside a BetterDry or Rearz Incontrol or Tykables 7000ml disposable, and plastic pants. It's a thick combo, lots of padding down there, and very soft. So after I've cleaned up the flats, a scrub down my legs and tush with a warm terry cloth flat is _heavenly_. But these leaks outside of nappies probably means one thing - I can't be trusted to remain clean if not wearing a nappy now....

i've had very low back pain, in line with my hips. Not further up my back around the level of the kidneys. I've also got osteoporosis in my hips and knees (thanks mum), so it's not infeasible that the osteoporosis is contributing to the back pain and potential degeneration of the sacral nerve bundle there. But we're speculating here, and only a trip to the doc would confirm the theory.

I know this is in Incon-Desires, but I'm wondering whether what I've been experiencing the past few days, and last night in particular, stress and/or OAB. Last night and this morning has me rattled a bit. I've mentioned in other threads recently that I've been experiencing bladder flutters and very weak sphincter response this past week or so. The past few days however have been quite surreal, in that my bladder has been voiding very frequently (like about every 5 minutes or more) and in very small amounts. There's been very little to no response from the sphincter (I had been normally having a sphincter contraction at the point of void, eliciting a "no, gotta stop this contraction, so relax and let the wet happen"). When my bowel moves a stool along past the bladder, I'll get a bladder voiding. Yesterday, I was patting my stomach, which would elicit bladder voiding. Moving around bed would eventually elicit bladder voiding a few seconds later. Then came last night. My bladder didn't stop, all night, and I've had a mild tummy ache to go along with it. Little releases, which I could start to push to turn into larger releases really really easily, or just movement when the release happened turned into larger releases. This morning, it started voiding and seemingly didn't stop for 5 mintues or so (a very slow but fairly constant flood). I got no sleep, due to the voids and sensations. Where does all this pee come from? The sensations down there have been very strange. I've very little control at the moment of my sphincter. So a bit of a flutter, a bit of queasiness, and a bladder void happens. If this behaviour is beyond the "line of no control" then I'm in. If anything, it's a peak over the crest of the hill, and I have a new appreciation for bladder incontinence sufferers. But the speed of this happening, the queasiness, the lack of sleep, all has me concerned enough that I'm considering heading off to my GP. The above has followed on from weeks of a really bad lower back ache, with random pains in my legs, along with arthritis in my hips and knees. Some online research this morning has me thinking sacral nerve damage - the symptoms fit my experience, but this would need to be confirmed. I'm tired, very thickly nappy-protected (am wearing a Tykables Camelot with 70x70 folded cloth nappy pad insert, with a Rearz prefold covering the Tykables nappy, inside plastic pants - I added the Rearz pre-fold outer at 3am this morning), and am curious as to what the day today brings.