Wearing nappies 24/7 does leave you incontinent.

[Goerge]

Interesting article in the paper about the 'pad culture' in hospital leaving people incontinent.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11472223/Older-people-left-incontinence-hospital-visits-NHS-staff-fit-catheters-unnecessarily.html#comments

[Goerge]

This is the site with more detail.

 

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/14713012221116490

[Little Sherri]

This was very interesting, @Goerge, thanks for digging it up. I'll make a few notes based on my quick read of it. First, for any of "us" that make it to these types of setting in the sunset of our lives, the caregivers may end up confused when the "fight" goes the other way... "No, no, love, you don't have to wear a nappy, just press the button and we'll get you to the toilet lickity split... oh you WANT to wear a nappy?" 

But, sadly, this won't likely be the case, we probably won't have to insist, because pads/nappies/diapers work very well for scheduling attending to requirements that otherwise occur randomly. Many of us have had he experience of being in the midst of potty-training a toddler, and thinking, "Well, just for the drive to to the coast/just while we're in line at the DMV" etc, it would be damned convenient for them to be back in diapers, because then you can manage "that" as you have time for it, rather than inviting unexpected emergencies at inconvenient junctures. SO you can easily understand why that philosophy would prevail in chronically understaffed and overworked care settings. It's way easier to do a round of nappy changes when you have time than it is to take 12 unscheduled requests for toilet visits per shift from doddering slowpokes, while under the gun to get meds dispensed and check vitals. 

I witnessed this tendency recently when my mom was in the hospital; she is not incontinent, and in fact, ended up using the toilet for her entire stay, but literally as soon as they put her in the assessment room in the ER, a nurse brought a diaper in and put it on her bedside table. My dad thought it was a pillow and tried to put it behind her head. Then, when she was transferred to a room up on a floor, two diapers were placed on the bathroom counter, even though she wasn't in them and didn't use them. But to anyone visiting, they told a story that wasn't accurate. 

On the other hand, this paper confines itself to people with dementia, a cohort that, unfortunately, is prone to losing ground rapidly, as they are generally "in decline" in any event. For example, I've seen a physically healthy person with dementia fall, break a hip, and then die within two weeks because once they were hospitalized, they became so disoriented that they wouldn't eat or drink, and the decision was made to "let nature take its course." All of which is to say that it is WAY more likely that someone in this state could transition from being continent to being incontinent within a few weeks of wearing diapers, than would be the case for someone with an average level of mental and physical resilience. 

This is backed up by my experience of wearing diapers for a bit over 3.5 years, and still having complete control during the day, although I'm now in danger of infrequent but unpredictable incidents while sleeping. Also - and I wish I could find a free link to this, but it was behind a paywall the last time I saw it - I read a study that mainly centered on the inappropriate use of stupefying doses of psychoactive medications in the elderly, to control behaviour, who were then diagnosed with advanced dementia and often confined to their beds, and almost universally also confined to diapers. The study mainly discussed outcomes when they patients were weaned down to appropriate doses, or taken off the medications completely, and suddenly drooling Uncle George can talk again and wants to play cards. But a sidenote in the study documented how a good number of them regained some mobility, and that corresponded with some of them no longer requiring "continence care" - in some cases, after they'd been immobile for a year or more. 

However, the people in the study for the most part did not have advanced dementia symptoms, once they were weaned off the medications, so, in my opinion, their outcomes are more projectable on people like "us", most of whom, presumably, don't have dementia if they're reading and typing here. Ergo, it is possible to wear diapers for extended periods of time and not experience incontinence as a result, if the wearer is mentally and physically robust enough to want to go back to using the toilet. 

The "want" being a key ingredient, in my opinion. So, fear not, those of you who want to dabble in wearing baby pants but don't want to lose any ground in the continence department - I think you are safe. And, fear not, those of you who want to lose that ground - if you put your mind to it, you can do it. I'm kind of in the middle - I didn't start doing this hoping to lose all control, but, at the same time, I do wish that I didn't have to authorize every tinkle, particularly now that I'm doing it every 25 minutes or so. But, alas, they rarely happen by themselves. Except at night; in bed, things do sometimes go on autopilot, which I don't mind, because it means I sleep better!

[Goerge]

How fast would a persons continence slip if they were wearing 24/7 and wetting at the slightest urge without clenching the muscle, wetting in small dribbles every 10 minutes. Sphincter muscles feels in an open position all the time but sometimes spasm when dribbling but then go back into open mode. Also this person suffering from post void dribble. How fast does sphincter weakage happen in this case if I continue to do this.

 

I should add I now have a over active bladder from wearing all the time, feel like I need too pee all the time.

[~Brian~]

4 hours ago, Little Sherri said:

This was very interesting, @Goerge, thanks for digging it up. I'll make a few notes based on my quick read of it. First, for any of "us" that make it to these types of setting in the sunset of our lives, the caregivers may end up confused when the "fight" goes the other way... "No, no, love, you don't have to wear a nappy, just press the button and we'll get you to the toilet lickity split... oh you WANT to wear a nappy?" 

But, sadly, this won't likely be the case, we probably won't have to insist, because pads/nappies/diapers work very well for scheduling attending to requirements that otherwise occur randomly.

@Little Sherri

I agree with what you're saying Sherri:  It brings me back to my youth. when I went into this rehab center, that I visited twice in my young life, they start you off and they tell you that they're going to help you with whatever you're dealing with period they tell you how fun the center is, they tell you you can swim every day, they make it sound like club med. in actuality it is not club med, it is a rehab center, it's almost like a lock up center. they end up making you think that you're going to be able to walk, you're gonna be able to talk to your friends, and you're gonna be able to do almost everything that you do at home, including being able to use the bathroom.

Alas, just like you said, the mentality is or was at the time, that everybody should be wearing diapers, because that way it makes it easier for all of the nurses that are in positions where they have to care for you. unfortunately, Diapers get cheaper and cheaper, so they don't even have the absorption power to be able to help you, because they make you have to wear these pull up underwear, because they only have to change you every two hours according to the law or the rules. rules don't make any sense if the person that is in the diaper is very uncomfortable or it's not working for them. i've been in position the last time I was in the hospital for extended stay, where they actually had to remove my appendix, I had an ostomy an ostomy bag, and then everything that came out of me poured out of my side, and stunk worse than the worst sneakiest diaper you've ever dealt with in your life. I found out that they had cut into where my appendix used to be removed it, and that whatever was coming out of me was coming out of my or something and it was coming out in the ostomy bag rather than going down through my Rectal passage.

In that case, they didn't even bring me a nappy, and they didn't even blink when I asked them for one after I had made the most ridiculous mess because they gave me all of this fluid that is supposed to light up my appendix or the inside of my body so they can see how it's been healing period I had the most ridiculous mess that night, and they continually told me it's It's no problem honey we will take care of it, you don't have to worry about it, you don't need a diaper.

So they cleaned me up and then put me in a fresh pair of PJ's they had eight nurses to take care of me. one of them was talking to me, four of them were taken care of my bed, two of them were taken care of cleaning me up, while one of them was Around to help me and the other nurses. they lovingly took care of me and professionally took care of the situation without even blinking an eyelash. that tells me that these nurses were really really professional and they really cared about what they were doing period now I question how the medical profession Can safely say that the best diaper that they can give you is the cheapest. i'd rather have my mega maxes than any diaper they give me, because every time they say They're gonna give you a diaper, you might as well put on a bounty paper towel and hope that you don't have to use it! they don't have the ability to hold anything and they're just a mess.

If I was in the hospital I would want the best diaper that they could give me. by the time I get to that stage where I'm have to wear a diaper all the time and there's no other way around it, hopefully hospitals will understand what a diaper actually is and I don't have to show them that. it was embarrassing when I had to call Medicaid in the state of Vermont, and I had to show them what a diaper actually meant. I had to tell them that a diaper is plastic backed, it is crinkly, it has plenty of patting, it has the ability to hold whatever you're releasing, and it is for Purposes a person's bathroom. I had to send them to rears dot CA in order for them to be able to understand what that meant. I doubt that a hospital understands what a diaper actually is, but when I go in next summer for my colonoscopy, I will be wearing them, and they will know what it means.

I haven't read the actual article yet however I don't know how valid some of the points are in an article from the Daily Mail. To read it but I stand by my opinion that diapers are needed in a hospital setting and they need to be the best they can be, and without that the patient is uncomfortable, and if you are totally Incontinent you don't want a paper towel on your rear end.

I still believe in my heart that if you wear 24/7, like I keep saying, you will be incontinent after awhile. that is because your body gets used to having a diaper on, and you might lose some some ground and some ability to control your bladder or bowels. Bowel control and bladder control are two things that are integral in your life when you grow up. once you end up getting that control, people Expect you to be able to hold it and be able to deal with it. there are people in the world that can't, and I still can't understand why they would use the most ridiculous diapers in the world, and they make stupid rules that say you have to be changed every two hours. I would rather be in a mega Max and be changed every three hours and be comfortable and a plastic back diaper that is comfortable. at least when I have to use a diaper all day, I can count on my diaper being able to hold at least 5 releases of urine, but as far as #2, one Event and the thing is done. and you have to change.

I would hope when I get old or older, for whatever age that happens where I have to be placed in a facility, that I am Given the chance to wear diapers, because I probably will anyway, and that I'm given better diapers then I would be given in a hospital setting. when I asked for diapers, I went for the Mega Max's, they work for me, they're better for me, and they give me The chance to deal with the feelings that I have period having a diaper on, I have a piece of clothing that gives me a big hug, and tells me that it's OK to release. A diaper's intention is so that you can release, so why should they be the cheapest thing on the planet? answer is that the companies don't care about patient comfort, they just want to make sure that they only last a couple hours, because somebody made a law or a rule somewhere that says that you change people every two hours. if I was a medical professional I would insist that you have You have diapers like mega maxes on the hospital property in every single medical practice because you never know when somebody's going to come in and they're going to end up being placed in something that is not going to work, and then you're going to be in a lot of trouble. That is why I always carry diapers on board: in fact I carry the whites on board: And I'm not sure exactly if this will ever change, but I pray it does. patient comfort comes before making sure that money is saved. you save money by making advantageous cuts, not by making dangerous ones or ones that make quality zero and quantity 100 So that you can't actually use whatever you are being given. when I had my first diaper that was a prevail on, I ended up peeing all over the floor because I ended up peeing all the way through the diaper and it made a mess: this is what I had to use as my justification for better diapers: my doctor gave me everything I needed, so I hope that for the rest of my life that's what I use, plastic back diapers that are quality!

I think little Sherry for his because it makes a difference and there's no reason why this information should be disbelieved, but the idea is that need quality under garments and not something that is only to last less than an hour or less than two hours.

As they say: that's my story and I'm sticking to it! he he he

Brian

[Kawaharu]

5 hours ago, Little Sherri said:

This was very interesting, @Goerge, thanks for digging it up. I'll make a few notes based on my quick read of it. First, for any of "us" that make it to these types of setting in the sunset of our lives, the caregivers may end up confused when the "fight" goes the other way... "No, no, love, you don't have to wear a nappy, just press the button and we'll get you to the toilet lickity split... oh you WANT to wear a nappy?" 

But, sadly, this won't likely be the case, we probably won't have to insist, because pads/nappies/diapers work very well for scheduling attending to requirements that otherwise occur randomly. Many of us have had he experience of being in the midst of potty-training a toddler, and thinking, "Well, just for the drive to to the coast/just while we're in line at the DMV" etc, it would be damned convenient for them to be back in diapers, because then you can manage "that" as you have time for it, rather than inviting unexpected emergencies at inconvenient junctures. SO you can easily understand why that philosophy would prevail in chronically understaffed and overworked care settings. It's way easier to do a round of nappy changes when you have time than it is to take 12 unscheduled requests for toilet visits per shift from doddering slowpokes, while under the gun to get meds dispensed and check vitals. 

That's very interesting. It makes you wonder why diapers like Northshore are becoming more common.

[~Brian~]

18 hours ago, Kawaharu said:

That's very interesting. It makes you wonder why diapers like Northshore are becoming more common.

@Kawaharu@Little Sherri@Goerge

I just took a few moments to read that entire article from the top to the bottom of the page! as I said as I suspected, this article is basically the entire reasoning why people are probably more incontinent now than they were before they go in for a Procedure. the idea of going into the hospital is that you can get better, so that, so that you can go home afterwards and be independent to the point where you don't have to have 24/7 care anymore. the idea of being in a hospital is so that they can help you become better able to manage whatever you're dealing with, And not only that being in the hospital means that you are unable to take care of yourself for a short time.

I remember being in that position when I was 30 years old. For a week or two before I went into the hospital I wasn't feeling the best. I didn't have any issues with my appendix for at least two weeks before it happened, but I wasn't feeling the and I knew it. I couldn't figure out why I didn't feel good, it just felt hot or uncomfortable in apartment, And I couldn't figure out why period two weeks later, I started having problems and I started getting sick and throwing up white fluid, that look like milk, but then there was something wrong because I knew that I should not be throwing up white fluid. I then ended up going to the doctor twice, once to the ER and once back to the doctor, and the second time I told the doctor that I I wanted to be placed in the hospital, because I wasn't going back to my apartment looking like this, felt like I was gonna die, and they put me in the hospital.

Me having a disability, I was catheterized Probably either during or after the surgery that occurred. I was there for about a month and I had this Catheter in there for most of the time I was there. I was lucky, because all I had was a small problem where I was dealing with a UTI because they had the catheter in there. It burned and hurt but I was able to deal with it. Having this thing burning hurt was nothing compared to the pain and discomfort I was having because they literally zipped me, and then cut out my appendix, but I think they also or at least I thought they also cut into my intestine, but they didn't do that.

During my stay, I kept on having very bad releases where It was the worst thing that I'd ever dealt with period consider what I was dealing with, I had to beg them To diaper me at some point, because I wasn't about to have this constant problem where I constantly had to go to the bathroom and I could not get rid of it fast enough. considering that they cut me open and all the stuff was coming out of me, I wasn't very comfortable and I was getting to the point where I wanted to rip out my insides, because I constantly hurt. they told me that they didn't wanna put a diaper on me, even after I had two large accidents that took eight people to change me and make me feel comfortable. I told them that I had requested it because I wanted their job to be easier, and they told me that it would not be that much of a big deal, and they just took care of me like a bunch of professional nurses and caregivers do. they didn't even bat an eyelash.

Based on the article I read, I now understand that what I surmised and what I thought was true was exactly what happened. if you go into the hospital, they expect you not to be either mobile or continent, and then they think that you are unable to do much for yourself, so outcome the catheters, the diapers, the pads or whatever they use. They end up diapering you and then you end up spending most of the time in bed, which is one of the things that they frown upon after say probably the first week or so of a long Impatient stay. they want you to get up and move, they want you to be mobile, because that helps your body to be able to deal with whatever your dealing with period if you're constantly being in bed, in a flat down position, you are less likely to be able to control your urine or your fecal output because you are in a position that is foreign to your body's ability to be able to release it.

This article seems to indicate that the best way for them to be able to help someone who is in a hospital is either the catheterized them or to put them In pads, keeping them there as long as they are in the hospital because no one wants to come and take them to the bathroom. I can understand The fact that they might not be able to get to you every single time, and you might have an accident, which is normal period i've had a couple of them myself in a hospital bed, so that is in a big deal. however, this article indicates that all they do is put you in a hospital, and in within two days they determine you incontinent, pad you up or diaper you up and leave you there, using diapers at all times one year in a hospital common because they just don't have the time to take you to the bathroom?  that is 1 issue: the other issue is more to the point and it is that if you were going into the hospital and you had to have an operation, and you had to have certain medicine to make sure that you were able to function, does this now get to the point that if you are under NHS care, or any medical care in any facility, that if a person cannot take enough time to take you to the bathroom, so that you can use the toilet, that it might stretch out to the point that they don't have time to give you the proper medicine or medical supervision or medical care because they just don't have time?

Far too many people are getting in the situations where they are in a hospital because of something that happens to them. If you are going into the hospital it is understood that you need to be there for whatever reason. when I went into the hospital when I was 30 years old, which was over 20 years ago, I expected that they're going to be able to pull out my appendix, they're going to treat me with respect, they are going to make me well, they are going to monitor what's going on, i'm going to be able to be continent when I walk out of there carmen and I will have my pride and respect. It is the responsibility of a health care facility to let the patient know exactly what is going on, and give them the options that they need to be able to make informed medical decisions. simply because a person is 80 years old, does not mean that that person should be medically deemed incontinent and slapped in a diaper without even thinking about it twice. There are a lot of 80 year old women and men that are probably a lot healthier than some 60 year olds, and it depends on the situation. To automatically assume that somebody needs a diaper without even thinking about it is a little ridiculous, and based on what I understand, the NHS is supposed to be set up in a way that a continent's nurse is supposed to be in charge of anything that is being done whether you be in a hospital or in care, especially if you're incontinent.

It should be noted that there are people that probably need to be in diapers or pads, and it doesn't necessarily mean that if you're in diapers that you automatically have to go into nursing home care in Cases being in diapers is a lot easier than making a mess in your bed and then having to wait for somebody to come in and take care of you. every single one of us here on daily diapers knows that if you make a mess in your pants, that you are dealing with something that is acidic versus your skin care if you have messy pants and they earn contact with your skin, that can cause major red rash and it can really hurt. if you continually wear a wet diaper for long periods of time that can cause skin breakdown and that is even worse. these people also have to realize that if you do not take someone to the bathroom that requires it, that can still use the toilet but can't get there, it be a lot easier on the patient itself to be able to continue to do what he normally would do, because as the article indicates if you put a person into a position where they are required to wear nappies because somebody makes the decision for them, and you keep them there, they get used to that and then their reliant on them because no one takes the time to take them to the bathroom. they just change a nappy or they end up keeping you in a catheter Longer than you need to be, and that also can cause you to have an infection or something worse.

Being that I have been in both positions: being in a hospital room in a catheter and being in a diaper 24/7 for three years, I can understand both rationals.  Using catheters Allows you to be able to release without having to wear the diaper, which means that you don't have to worry about any rashes. you just have to make sure that you don't leave the catheter in too long because it can cause you to end up having a UTI.  Using diapers, you would be able to use the diaper to release anything you're holding, but it can cause and breakdown in severe rashing and then it can start to burn And hurt. Sometimes being in either position is a double edged sword. You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. sometimes A hospital is so busy but they don't have time to do everything that they'd like to be able to do to help you take care of yourself, but sometimes what I think happens is even in the best of conditions, you can also have the ball the ball dropped, which causes somebody to have to go through needless pain agony and also potassably embarrassment. there's no reason for anyone to have to go through this type of embarrassment because they're there because they need to be, going to the hospital is not like going to club med, there are in there because they are in need of specialized medical care period you wouldn't want a doctor to say i'm gonna take out your appendix, and then take out your intestines! if somebody does that, they're incompetent as hell and they need to have their head examined. taking somebody's appendix out and then not changing a diaper are two different things of two different magnitudes, but you need to be able to take care of all your patients needs to the best of your ability, and you shouldn't be cutting corners to make sure things are done. being hospital the hospital is responsible for your care, and if you were under the care of a physician the physician should know what is going on in your case, and should not just automatically give in and say we're gonna diaper this person, because we feel it's necessary A doctor should be able to tell you why something is necessary and why they feel something is necessary. A patient should also be able to tell the doctor why they think something is necessary as well.

It's like what I said in my earlier post: when you're a kid, they decide what you need to do when you need to do it why you need to do it. in my earlier post, I told you that most people that went into these pediatric rehab stints we're totally mobile totally able to move, totally able to think for themselves, totally continent, using Walker's crutches or any other types of mobility that do not have four wheels, and then within a month or less, they are bedridden, unable to think for themselves, required to do everything someone says, totally diapered, and they're using the diapers for everything because no one wants to take the two minutes or four minutes or 20 minutes to actually take somebody into the bathroom and and allow them to use it. I'm not seeing hospitals are lazy and incompetent, far from it:: but the fact is this article actually alludes to the fact that they just think it's easier to put a diaper on somebody than it is to take them to the bathroom. Nowadays, hospitals will give you enough medicine so you are not in pain. this is not the case or was not the case say in the 70s. They wanted to give you medicine, but they were very hesitant to do it, and they only gave you enough medicine based on what a doctor said, they were not willing to change medicines and they were not willing to hear what someone said. nowadays you can get medicine and high enough doses so that you will be in enough comfort so you don't have to Yell Ouch. this is the way it is supposed to be, you should not have to be in agony, and if that means that you're wearing diapers because it's more comfortable for you, then so be it.

Now let's go to the next section of the equation. Diapers: they are supposed to be made in such a way that they don't require changing every five minutes. Two or three idiots up the chain in the medical system probably decided what was appropriate, how long a diaper should last, how long You should wait before changing diapers, and that is what some idiot will follow. I have had nurses that have taken care of me, who will make sure that I am comfortable as a patient, and that means that we might have to do things a lot differently. there are also times when someone may need the diapers because they are unable to move. the best way to make sure that your diapers are quality is to make sure that the diapers are made with quality materials: if we had a whole bunch of North Shore diapers in a hospital, and we had mega maxes available, I wouldn't even have to complain about any diapers. the problem is that these idiots that make the rules decide that the cheapest diapers that are available are the only ones that should be used, and then Medicare and Medicaid and all of these insurance places decide that those are the only ones they're going to approve. therefore the insurance companies are making out like bandits, while people like us who have to end up dealing with incontinence, or dealing with incredible hospital stays have to be using the cheapest possible type Diapers made on Earth. if somebody needed a $10,000 operation, you wouldn't want somebody to pay $10,000. And then have the doctor perform $200 worth of operation and close you up. you want exactly what you asked for and what you need. no one is going to turn around hopefully and then say you need a $500 hose to hook to a $500 machine, and they give you a $2.00 hose that's made out of something that won't even work It's basically A no brainer: are you going to let somebody try to cut corners with your health care? apparently the NHS in this particular article must think that since they don't have time to do something as easy as taking someone into the bathroom, that makes me think that the NHS or anyone in the hospital setting over in the United Kingdom according to this article, doesn't have the time to give the proper care to the patients they are taking Are taken care of.

In no way am I alluding to the fact that nurses don't care and they don't take good care of their patients. far from it there are a lot of good nurses from all over the world who take pride in what they do and they do it right. I'm just questioning the veracity of the actual article. if this article indicates that persons that are going into an operation or going into the hospital for whatever reasons are immediately diapered without even Thinking about it, and then when they come out elderly are automatically put into nursing homes because they have to have someone change their nappies, that is a difference that makes them not as independent as they once were. it is also important to realize that once someone goes down that road, like I say that it is harder than heck, but not impossible to retrain yourself. once you reach the age of 75 to 80 years old, it becomes harder to do something that was easier if you are 20 years younger. nurses Nurses do a wonderful job of what they do, and they are under a lot of pressure. but as I say this article seems to say that nurses are lazy or that they don't have the time to give, when sometimes you have to give the time because if you give the patient the proper care, they are better For it.

 

@Kawaharu Is correct when she says that it is wonder why that companies like North Shore is there more prevalent now than they were back then. I believe people are understanding that that you need quality and continents gear as well as quality gear in general, and that you can't under any circumstances cut corners. she is 24/7 incontinent both ways, using diapers all the time, so she is constantly in them, and cannot leave them because she is not potty trained. if you don't give a person who needs it the quality diapers that they require or anything else in the medical field, you will find out that that would end up blowing up in your face. North Shore seems to be able to determine what people need what people want, and they know how to make a diaper. whatever these tabbed underwear companies are doing, it is not working. people are people are not getting the quality that they need when it comes to these particular products. You cannot expect a person like her or myself to be wearing tabbed underwear:: we would wet that in five seconds and we would be so wet that it wouldn't be ridiculous. that would be like her eye going into the bathroom and then peeing all over the floor! which somebody want that? absolutely positively unequivocally not! if that if that is true why do these companies expect us to wear things that aren't even close to being quality. I say screw the people that are in continent care that say that everything has to last exactly Two hours or less, because that way we save money. if we were to contract with somebody like North Shore who was willing to make the diapers that are necessary, diapers would be so comfortable, diapers would be so thick that you wouldn't need to change them every two minutes you wouldn't have to change them every two Two hours, and someone would be able to wear them for at least four hours between changes. when you put a North Shore on, they're supposed to last especially for the mega Max a total of 12 hours. That does not necessarily mean that you wait 12 hours between changes, it just means that the diaper is designed for that purpose. You do use Use your head when you decide when you're going to change a diaper. i've had a couple A times when I've had to wear a diaper over 12 hours, but I wouldn't wanna do that on a regular basis, because I want to be able to trust that what I'm releasing is able to be held by the diaper. These tabbed underwear companies don't get it, and if I could force every single one of them to spend a particular type of money particular product to make them better, They would come out with a lot better things that are available for the general public. it is not our fault that we're totally incontinent, it is not our fault that we may have to be in the hospital, it is not our fault Our fault that we may be sick. we expect that we're going to get the same quality of care bing sick then then if we were to go to the doctor and tell him that we have a cold. If we need diapers, we shouldn't be walking out of there with prevails if we need Megamax's. It should not be hard to prove medical need, most impossible to do that because of the way that it is made to happen. I had to wait almost a month to be able to prove medical need, but I needed the product within two days.

So I say to these companies why end up wasting your money - You make money why don't you spend it! north Shore knows how to do that very well, and they have the products that we need. not every single product that someone is going to make is something that I may use, specific needs if. if all of the companies decide to go cheap because the insurance companies go cheap, there's no competition, because every single company makes the same garbage. that's why I am with North Shore and that's where I'm staying!

Brian

@Kawaharu

[babykeiff]

It is well known that the mind attempts to make sense of its environment by reverting to what it already knows. If one is wearing diapers 24/7/365 and forced to stay in bed, they will become diaper dependant. Also, due to the paitent being cared for as a baby (fed, cleaned, changed etc.) - their mind reverts to that behaviour.

If you talk to your parents / grandparents / people of that generation, you will find that they trust their doctor / nurse / care worker almost implicily. Most of us here have learned that some medical staff may not have our wishes and/or our best interests foremost. This is not the doctor / nurse / care worker. It usually is the medical industry where it is more profitable to treat symptoms rather than cure the disease. This is world wide. See below, a virus can be cured / eliminated.

This is just a fact of life, and it is something that needs to change.

Care homes / hospitals etc want their paitents bed bound 24/7/365.

The reasons are varied, but these are some of them:-

• Insurance costs - when a paitent is bed bound, less staff are required to manage a paitent / ward = less cost to run that ward & higher profit.
• Actual running costs and liability - Most people can't afford the daily costs of day-care. As an result, the care facility find other ways to cover their costs - which include extracting the equity from the paitents assets - ie their house etc - and get the paitent to sign over their assets to the care facility.
• With a paitent in diapers 24/7, nappy rash and/or infection is possible - but with reduced staff, inevitable. As a result, death from complications of infection is almost guarenteed.

All the above steps ensure that the care facility can make maximum profits from paitent care, and this methodology has been going on for decades in care homes.

We, in the ABDL world, fantasise about being cared for and treated as a baby, but the reality is more of a nightmare.

*There is a lie that has been told worldwide - a virus can be cured.

I am not refering to the Trump school of medicine (idiots) who wish to combine their fetish intrests with pseudo medical cures, rather to actual biological proof. From a biological stance, a virus is a bag where inside is instructions that our cells can read, understand and follow. This is where the error and lie is being created. Our cells are not perfect... and as such, when following the instructions make errors in the duplication. For a visual reference, assume that you have a brand new dollar / euro note. You photocopy it, and using the copy, photocopy the copy. As you repeat that process, each copy gets less and less like the original dollar / euro note. Similar errors occur within the cell on each copy the cell creates. Sometimes the error creates an advantage, while othertimes, the error creates a disadvantage. The disadvantaged change will die out while the advantaged change survive. This concept is explained as Darwin Theory or Survival of the Fittest. In biological terms this is refered to as mutations, and each biological creature is a mutation of its previous. We are a mutation of our parents due to the combination of DNA.

As a result, if biologists create a way to kill a virus, it can only be 99% effective which results in a strain that survives that is immune to that cure. This was published in relation to MRSA - a strain of a bacteria that is immune to antibiotics. 

 

[oznl]

On 12/2/2022 at 2:18 AM, Goerge said:

How fast would a persons continence slip if they were wearing 24/7 and wetting at the slightest urge without clenching the muscle, wetting in small dribbles every 10 minutes. Sphincter muscles feels in an open position all the time but sometimes spasm when dribbling but then go back into open mode. Also this person suffering from post void dribble. How fast does sphincter weakage happen in this case if I continue to do this.

 

I should add I now have a over active bladder from wearing all the time, feel like I need too pee all the time.

Well after more than 3.5 years of doing precisely this, I can still stay dry during the day if I choose to although there are limits surrounding this.

I realise that my pee voiding patterns are now completely abnormal.  Void volumes are low, void frequencies are high.  Flow rates are very, very slow.  A void occurs in 2 or 3 installments and the "clench" reflex has largely disappeared meaning that some post-void dripping happens.  It's still voluntary voiding though.  There have been a handful of daytime "accidents" that appear to be from something resembling an over-active bladder and I suspect those accidents would have been avoided if I had not already been in a nappy.  There ALWAYS seems to be some very low level of awareness that I could pee.

I would describe myself as having compromised continence rather than incontinence.

At night time it's quite different:  intermittent, unconscious bedwetting.  It presents as outright incontinence.  I sometimes just wake up to find myself wet with no insight into when or how this occurred.  It seems to be quite a different animal to the daytime modality I experience.

There's another new thing creeping in:  I'm starting to "forget" that I'm in nappies.  They are just there and they get used.

If I can make it to 5 years it will be interesting to see what things look like from there.  I wonder if it should be thought of as a "60 month" program rather than 12...

 

[babykeiff]

5 minutes ago, oznl said:

Well after more than 3.5 years of doing precisely this, I can still stay dry during the day if I choose to although there are limits surrounding this.

I realise that my pee voiding patterns are now completely abnormal.  Void volumes are low, void frequencies are high.  Flow rates are very, very slow.  A void occurs in 2 or 3 installments and the "clench" reflex has largely disappeared meaning that some post-void dripping happens.  It's still voluntary voiding though.  There have been a handful of daytime "accidents" that appear to be from something resembling an over-active bladder and I suspect those accidents would have been avoided if I had not already been in a nappy.  There ALWAYS seems to be some very low level of awareness that I could pee.

I would describe myself as having compromised continence rather than incontinence.

At night time it's quite different:  intermittent, unconscious bedwetting.  It presents as outright incontinence.  I sometimes just wake up to find myself wet with no insight into when or how this occurred.  It seems to be quite a different animal to the daytime modality I experience.

There's another new thing creeping in:  I'm starting to "forget" that I'm in nappies.  They are just there and they get used.

If I can make it to 5 years it will be interesting to see what things look like from there.  I wonder if it should be thought of as a "60 month" program rather than 12...

 

@oznl I'd bet that if you tried to spend a few (3+) hours or more not in diapers that you would be in very wet pants despite wanting to stay dry - yet the average toilet trained adult (20+) person can spend 4-6 hours without needing the bathroom. I doubt that you could last 30-45 minutes, and that you will constantly be unsure. You ARE diaper dependent. 

What has happened:-

• your sphincter muscles are relaxed.
• your pelvic floor is relaxed and does not tighten your sphincters when urine enters your bladder.
• your bladder is voiding as soon as any pressure is felt by the stretch sensors on your bladder
• you still feel (the odd time) when you are wetting, but since you are in diapers, you are not recalling this as it is no longer important
• you still feel the bulk of the diaper, but are also forgetting this since as it is no longer important
• you mind and behaviour is reverting to what it already knows - in order to make sense of this - your actions of voiding before you were potty trained.

Your bowel control will soonn follow, and maybe is already at that stage - i.e. you fill your diaper as soon when stand and were unaware of your need to poop before your stood up. This is done almost by gravity rather than you having to force it.

If this is what you want, continue and be happy. If not, talk to a continence advisor and retrain yourself. 

[oznl]

40 minutes ago, babykeiff said:

@oznl I'd bet that if you tried to spend a few (3+) hours or more not in diapers that you would be in very wet pants despite wanting to stay dry - yet the average toilet trained adult (20+) person can spend 4-6 hours without needing the bathroom. I doubt that you could last 30-45 minutes, and that you will constantly be unsure. You ARE diaper dependent.

I last spent a day out of diapers back in May.  It worked ok but it was inconvenient and uncomfortable.  I had to pee every 90 minutes or so and I suspect if I did not, there would have been accidents.  Compounding the annoyance was that peeing took ages.  There's an open question in my mind however about what would happen if I stayed out of diapers long enough for it not to be front-of-mind.  I'd need a particular set of accommodating domestic circumstances to run THAT experiment however as I'd need to accept the possibility of "incidents".

40 minutes ago, babykeiff said:

Your bowel control will soonn follow, and maybe is already at that stage - i.e. you fill your diaper as soon when stand and were unaware of your need to poop before your stood up. This is done almost by gravity rather than you having to force it.

There's certainly been an increase in urgency and there's been the odd accident in that department.  Again, an open question if such accidents were psychologically facilitated by me knowing I was diapered and so the social cost of such an accident was largely muted.  I've had no examples of pooping without awareness of a need however.  This is something I will be keeping an eye on for sure.

40 minutes ago, babykeiff said:

If this is what you want, continue and be happy. If not, talk to a continence advisor and retrain yourself. 

I find myself strangely at peace with this even though a big part of my brain knows that it's mad...

[babykeiff]

4 minutes ago, oznl said:

I last spent a day out of diapers back in May.  It worked ok but it was inconvenient and uncomfortable.  I had to pee every 90 minutes or so and I suspect if I did not, there would have been accidents.  Compounding the annoyance was that peeing took ages.  There's an open question in my mind however about what would happen if I stayed out of diapers long enough for it not to be front-of-mind.  I'd need a particular set of accommodating domestic circumstances to run THAT experiment however as I'd need to accept the possibility of "incidents".

There's certainly been an increase in urgency and there's been the odd accident in that department.  Again, an open question if such accidents were psychologically facilitated by me knowing I was diapered and so the social cost of such an accident was largely muted.  I've had no examples of pooping without awareness of a need however.  This is something I will be keeping an eye on for sure.

I find myself strangely at peace with this even though a big part of my brain knows that it's mad...

@oznl, In May it was inconvienient, but today/tomorrow, I would guess that it would be impossible. The reason that you are taking so long to pee is that you no longer have the contraction of your bladder in sync with your sphincter being opened. As a result, you are almost peeing by gravity, and not as you used to do, by following the process of a expanded bladder being contracted to open your sphincter(s).

As I stated, this is your subcontious mind making sense of what you have chosen to do - by referring back to what it knows, the pre toilet trained act of peeing by gravity without telling you. It is still confused re the messing due to your reluctance to do so based on social costs.

Since your mind has adapted / accepted that you are in diapers to such an extent that it is not telling you / reminding you, it will not be long before you start filling your diaper by outside triggers as you did as a baby once you address the social cost.

In relation to the social cost - which mainly relates to smell since today with you, you are comfortable in diapers 24/7 and so are the people around you even if they are unaware of you wearing same - this social cost can be eliminated by taking Nullo and/or activated charcoal plus cod liver oil capsules to conteract the constipation created by Nullo / activated charcoal. Info re activated charcoal / Nullo can easily be found on the web. Therefore, the social cost, in your parlance, would be muted, and since that is your only objection, I would suspect that you will revert to full diaper dependance very quickly if addressed.

I am totally at peace and happy with my dual diaper dependance - and I don't find it mad. I could, if I want, use expertise to attempt to fix it*, but the mental cost of same is too expensive in my opinion. Being dual diaper dependant means that my body is no longer storing waste in any form, not reversing the perastatic action of my lower intestine and not reabsorbing what my body has already decided that it doesn't want. It also means that my water balance is now controlled by each cell, not by a need to keep my pants dry. As a result, my mind is sharper, more able to concentrate and work at the levels that I want it to. From a mental and psychological perspective, I would recommend that nobody is toilet trained as doing so creates a sence of doubt where none existed, and thus, slows down ones ability to absorb information. This sence of doubt exists now in everything the child does, which grows into mistrust and the child questioning everything it is told from then on.

Question :- Is it right to diaper a baby and praise it for using the diaper, when the intention is, at a later stage, toilet train it. Therefore, one diapering a baby is lying to the baby before the baby has the ability to understand. Is that being fair to the child? Is it not better to either diaper the baby and never toilet train it OR toilet train the baby from birth?

*fix it - assuming diaper dependance and filling same in some form was me being broken