My Untraining Journey (Trans, Pre-to-Post Op)

[Little Cub Pants]

On 12/8/2021 at 4:06 PM, ~Brian~ said:

@Kif

I am actually glad that I have diapers on. Disposables are my go to’s, because I can’t deal with a cloth. It just doesn’t feel the same as what I’m used to when I was a little kid. I guess I just like the disposable type, and I like them nice and soft and able to handle whatever I can throw at it.

I also like the fact that I can go to sleep, and wear a diaper, and not really worry about whether I wake up or not. If I have to use the diaper, are use it. If I don’t have a diaper on, most of the time I am getting up in the middle of the night, and then sitting on the toilet for 2 to 3 hours, which makes me lose a lot of sleep, which doesn’t make any sense. Then I can’t get back to sleep, and then I have to sleep most of the morning to be able to get my eight hours. Sometimes it sucks to have this problem, so that is part of the reason why I am wearing diapers, because I can’t afford to lose sleep simply because my body doesn’t want to cooperate.

I don’t know how many of us actually have the same issue, but I can tell you from experience that if you get up at 11, and you end up staying in the bathroom until almost 1, and you get up at five, under normal circumstances, this can just about kill your whole night. Two hours out of the whole entire night while you’re sitting on the toilet, or you keep on going back to the toilet because you haven’t completed. This really sucks. When I went to see the doctor and ask him for diapers I basically told him everything that was going on, and the fact that I was not able to get halfway decent sleep, and this was bothering me.

If You are a baby or a toddler, you have a diaper on at night, so anything that comes out can be dealt with without too much difficulty, and you just go back to sleep. In my case a diaper is helpful because now I won’t have to wake up and worry about it, I just go and let it deal with itself. If for some reason I really feel that I need to go to the bathroom then I will use the diaper, because it doesn’t make sense for me to get up in the middle of the night just to go across the room to use the toilet. If I really have to go, that is one thing, and I will use the diaper, but I don’t feel that I should be losing sleep for hours on end because I can’t use the bathroom once I’m there. that is one of the main problems that I experience. I don’t know how many others have the same issue, but it can be a pain in the ass.

Brian

I totally agree with you buddy!? That's the exact reason why I like disposable diapies so much!?☺️???❤️?? I hate getting up in the middle of the night to go potty!?????????☹️????

[Kif]

Thought I'd give an update, will probably be awhile before the next one. 

(And apologies to those coming from Kali's blog during this hiatus - I'll be back, I promise!)

My bedwetting has definitely picked up since mid-December. I've been consistently wet 3 or more times per week AND have had many occurrences where those are all consecutive. The end result is that it practically feels like (and many times is) waking up wet every other day or more. 

Daytime-wise, I've definitely been more regular and I really don't notice when I wet anymore. Sometimes I have to focus on being relaxed, but it's pretty rare. And more often than not, I dribble anytime my nappy comes off for changes.

All that said, I have a solid-enough idea of when I'll undergo GCS now, so two things will change:

1. I'm going to stop using diapers for #2, and try to hold it a bit/take my time to get to the potty. I'll also "pinch off" when I'm aware, for both. I won't stop using nappies completely, as they help soooo much with my anxiety (and dysphoria), and I'm nowhere near any lasting physical changes beyond pads at most and nappies at night just in case.
2. I don't want people guessing surgery date / location, so this'll be my last intentional update until sometime after I've healed enough to begin untraining again. But, will ofc continue wearing at night because I probably need to at this point and the docs are fine with it.

In all likelyhood, could be more than 6 months depending on how healing/scheduling all works out...almost as long as I've been untraining, haha! 

Anyway, once I return from my hibernation, I'll give an update on how it all went and where I'm at. I do expect to start from close to ground zero when I resume again, but that's okay with me...I'll get there eventually. After nearly six months of untraining, this is something I know I want and will definitely pursue it again when I can. 

In closing, just want to say thanks to you all for your help and your support! ?

It makes such a huge difference to be in such an accepting and supportive community, and I'm overall far happier for it. Take care! ?

[oznl]

Well I hope it all goes well for you and I look forward to hearing of your adventures when you come out the other side!

[Kif]

Thought I'd give a small update, for those wondering where I'm at with things.

TL;DR is that I'm still planning to untrain, but it'll be awhile yet before I can really go about it. Maybe a few more months or so. But, I'm healthy and fine. ❤️ 

Surgery (penile-inversion vaginoplasty) was some time ago, I won't be specific how long or where ofc for privacy reasons. But, the results have been good! Have literally never been happier, and never cried so many happy tears. ?❤️ 

I tried diapers several times while recovering. Fun fact, the standing leak guards sit *perfectly* in the painful suture lines the surgery gives you! Also, even when that heals there's still too much nerve stimulation down there for anything to feel okay touching you down there (undies, pads, diapers, etc). And with discharge in the beginning, pads just work better at first.

That said, somewhat surprisingly diapers eventually become more comfortable than undies+pads as you recover because they're more...poofy!...so they don't touch stuff as much. But, even on my worse days if I wasn't naked was half-naked laying on an open diaper for comfort. 

There were some changes to my functioning down there...I'm investigating to make sure it's not a real problem. So far mostly minor, haven't had any accidents. But yes, urinary urgency is definitely stronger than before. And to my surprise my bowel control feels...spongy....Like I can't quite close it all the way. All this culminating in me in feeling more comfortable in diapers than not, especially when walking around town, despite having had no accidents so far. I'm never far from a toilet at home, so my range outside the house is untested...and I'm not interested in finding the failure point right now, since I still have more healing to do. ?

Speaking of, I'm basically in diapers again 24/7 now...I'm just not using them 24/7...more on that in a bit. Regardless, the comfort helps a *lot* with recovery, and with what I've been through has brought out my Little side more again (being *ahem* helpless, in pain, and bed/couch bound will do that). I hadn't realized *how much* I'd suppressed that part of me since transitioning, and frankly even while untraining. I guess part of me was super confused and unsure of how that tied into my feelings when transitioning. Plus, most of my Little stuff was all boy-mode stuff so that proooobably did not help.

Anyway, many emotional cries later I'm feeling a lot more at peace with my Little side and I've realized that just because I'm untraining doesn't mean I can't be little sometimes -- or that because I'm untraining that I'm expected to be Little all the time. They are related but also independent, and that is 100% a-okay! And now, I have some awesome cute babygirl stuff that makes me very happy ❤️ 

Oh, and for those wondering yes I do wet my diapers at this point but as I'm still healing I generally don't stay wet more than 2 hours max before I hop in the shower to clean and then dry off. I time them to my dialations, and a quick wipe off has worked completely fine. Portable fans are great for drying off by the way! And no way am I going to mess yet. 

Anyway, just wanted to pop in and let y'all know I'm happy and healthy! And, when I can (hopefully in a few more months), really look forward to returning to untraining again. I think about it a *lot*, it is still definitely there and strong as it was pre-op. Some things never change I guess! ?

[Kif]

So today we learned a lesson!

Grab your whiteboards and write down your answer for this question, class:

What is the best thing to keep nearby when drying out? Is it...

A) Just your hands
B) Absorbent Cloth and Babywipes
C) Just Babywipes

The answer is ... B! Great job for those of you who go it right!

But guess who was a silly-head and only had babywipes on hand?

And maybe had to use her hand and a babywipe to prevent pee from going eeeeverywhere? ?

*cough*

Anyway, what a way to trial getting back on the wagon!

I'm kinda-sorta-mostly going 24/7 again. But, I say it's a trial because I have to go under again in a month...things are healed up, but they're about to get all slicey-dicey again. Oh well. 

But, I figured it'd be a great way to check that my flow feels normal and start seeing how my skin feels while staying progressively longer in (wet) diapers. If any issues pop up, I'll know about it and could bring it up with the surgeon.

I'll try to post more often this time around too. Weekly if I can find it, or more...was worried about being spammy before, but I see now that was a silly thought. If you have feedback on my style, it's welcome! Might experiment with a story-like style for fun, we'll see.

Anyway happy Thursday or whenever it is wherever you are...

uhm...*cough* class dismissed I guess! ?

[Hannah YMS]

Just do what you gotta do, @Kif! Surgical recovery will take a few months in your case, best to be patient. Interestingly, I'm very curious how your journey changes after these surgeries. Y'know, for "future" reference in case it goes that way for me

[Kif]

So, I can confirm that post-op I definitely use nappies better >//////<

Like...I've been chugging water and trying to leak. I've flooded many times (unintentionally at this point). And even been dumb and delayed changes when I probably shouldn't.

But like...geezus, I didn't know Tena Ultimas could get this heavy and bulky. Wow. 

Pre-op with covers and liners I'd still leak in these things way before where I bulk to now. Coooould be how the padding works with the ... dongle ... cooooould be that I couldn't get as tight a fit as I thought with the  ... package ... who the heck knows.

But there's no doubt for me now that I'm pretty secure in these diapers now. Gradually building that confidence up again, it's really really nice! ❤️ 

Oh! And sensation-wise it's totally fine. I had some small nerve pain pop up again on a suture due to pressure on the area, but that went away same-day and hasn't come back. Otherwise, no pain or other issues so far. Will keep monitoring, but overall I'm pleased with how things work down there and how healing has gone. Flow feels natural and easy, skin condition looks great.

All that said...

Do I want to continue untraining with such vigor in what would be probably a month before a followup surgery/revision?

Eh, yes and no. I'll yes give it the best chance I can give it, to really put things to the test...but no I won't expect results. Doesn't matter either way though ... I'm happy!  

On 4/28/2022 at 11:55 AM, jonbearab said:

Just do what you gotta do, @Kif! Surgical recovery will take a few months in your case, best to be patient. Interestingly, I'm very curious how your journey changes after these surgeries. Y'know, for "future" reference in case it goes that way for me

Thanks Jonbearab! It takes sooo much patience lol, I'm just glad to be past the first big hurdle and can resume 24/7 at least again. Will have to test it again shortly, but overall I'm happy. Glad you're enjoying these updates, thanks for reading! ❤️ 

[oznl]

8 hours ago, Kif said:

Do I want to continue untraining with such vigor in what would be probably a month before a followup surgery/revision?

Eh, yes and no. I'll yes give it the best chance I can give it, to really put things to the test...but no I won't expect results. Doesn't matter either way though ... I'm happy! 

It's been quite the adventure!

As for pausing, since the point of the exercise is to make yourself happier, I'd just follow my heart and to what I thought would make me happiest.

Having said that, my experience was that developmentally, not that much happened in that phase of 24/7 anyway (well, maybe one or two isolated possible bedwetting incidents appeared).  It might be advantageous to "serve your time" in that boring zone and avoid having to re-cross that territory later.  For me at least, nothing dramatic would have developed in months 8 - 12 that would have interfered with surgery and I'd have been annoyed at any regression that may have occurred during a break from nappies.

Of course, ymmv...

[Kif]

8 hours ago, oznl said:

It's been quite the adventure!

As for pausing, since the point of the exercise is to make yourself happier, I'd just follow my heart and to what I thought would make me happiest.

Thanks! Yeah, this whole experience has just been tonnes of this. It feels frustrating to not be able to fully commit yet, but I feel my heart is in the right place for now.

8 hours ago, oznl said:

Having said that, my experience was that developmentally, not that much happened in that phase of 24/7 anyway (well, maybe one or two isolated possible bedwetting incidents appeared).  It might be advantageous to "serve your time" in that boring zone and avoid having to re-cross that territory later.  For me at least, nothing dramatic would have developed in months 8 - 12 that would have interfered with surgery and I'd have been annoyed at any regression that may have occurred during a break from nappies.

Of course, ymmv...

Agreed, I don't expect to gain/lose any ground here. Even in those 5 months there wasn't all that much gained physically (though, I did learn a lot mentally/emotionally). At least, this is a good opportunity to become familiar with my body and make sure it all works alright.

Forgot to mention -- there was a new mental component that popped up. Having had surgery down there, I did develop a bit of ... fear ... to pee. Expecting pain, like when you sprain your ankle and after it has healed but you still expect pain if you put your weight on it despite there being none. Don't have any, thankfully.

But, ofc more things to work on. I don't expect to get over that in the next month, nor for that to not be an issue after revision either...but there's always something to overcome mentally, heh.

[Kif]

Welp, color me surprised to learn my revision surgery also has an 8-week-no-nappies price tag associated with it. 

Guess I'll get at it again beginning of August. Hilariously, almost a year down to the day after I started untraining pre-op...almost fitting really. 

And while annoying, it's worth having my parts finally finished. And, at least now, I have the *real* start date to look forward to. Just one more wait to go, and then buh-bye to light diapers and undies!

[oznl]

16 minutes ago, Kif said:

Welp, color me surprised to learn my revision surgery also has an 8-week-no-nappies price tag associated with it.

Grrb...  Annoying.

A question though: whilst I obviously haven't been down a similar surgical road, I've had plenty of surgery in my time.  I don't think I've ever been given a nappy-usage advisory with ANY of that.  Did you have to bring practitioners up to speed with these things and if so, how was that conversation?

For a while, I was a "frequent flyer" at the cath lab (going in through my femoral artery for heart surgery).  I can't see how THAT would be very nappy friendly and so given my current state, it might be embarrassing conversation and catheter-time if repeated ?

[Kif]

13 hours ago, oznl said:

A question though: whilst I obviously haven't been down a similar surgical road, I've had plenty of surgery in my time.  I don't think I've ever been given a nappy-usage advisory with ANY of that.  Did you have to bring practitioners up to speed with these things and if so, how was that conversation?

Not with diapers specifically, at least with daytime. The 8 weeks advisory covers sex and swimming, with the primary goal being to prevent infections by making sure wounds are completely closed up. Tangential to this, it's still generally a good idea to keep the wound dry; for example, keeping it dry helps the white stuff (fibrin) heal and eventually go away.

I have asked the nurses/doctors about bedwetting and they were fine with that even right after surgery...despite that this would imply being in a wet diaper for many hours more than I ever would be during the daytime. Maybe it wasn't as obvious to them what that meant? But, on the other hand, they've been pretty chill with stuff that scared the heck out of me (assuring me I'm fine...and they've been right so far).

Honestly, I'm probably being more cautious than necessary...but even if I am, I'd rather be overly cautious and heal on an expected schedule than have that pushed out by complications.

[sparklezBear]

20 hours ago, Kif said:

Honestly, I'm probably being more cautious than necessary...

Yes, you are  

[Kif]

1 hour ago, sparklezBear said:

Yes, you are  

Out of curiosity...since I'm on one end the bounds here, I'm wondering what you think the other bound might look like? 

It's really tough having to go through this long wait again (as much as I'd like to play it off otherwise), and I'm half-considering asking the diaper question point-blank for my own mental/emotional health reasons...

[sparklezBear]

1 hour ago, Kif said:

Out of curiosity...since I'm on one end the bounds here, I'm wondering what you think the other bound might look like? 

It's really tough having to go through this long wait again (as much as I'd like to play it off otherwise), and I'm half-considering asking the diaper question point-blank for my own mental/emotional health reasons...

The need to keep things 'dry' is relative, and the context is important.

With respect to moisture, modern nappies are pretty darn good at pulling moisture away from the skin. At least they are until near the point of saturation. Sure, your skin won't be powder-dry, but that's not really really very achievable anyway , particularly among the folds where important sutures currently are, particularly in warmer weather. Sweat alone is a factor too. The point here is, if you were to change frequently (4+ times per day), I cannot see it being a big problem. For the other part inside, that will never be dry. The skin will be just fine anyway.

With respect to the context, well urine is sterile. It generally doesn't have any bugs in it, and will not harm any wound. If you are also keeping up with salt baths or similar, it's really unlikely to be of any significance. What you wouldn't want to be doing is messing, or remaining in a nappy for a prolonged period. That could create an environment for bacteria to flourish and cause problems with healing. The same as pool water (ick!), and anything external else foreign and not specifically cleaned going near healing areas.

Just be sensible and you'll be fine :).

[Kif]

Just a bit more until the last surgery, looking forward to being completely done -- everything in place down there, and ready to begin the final healing process before finally giving in to untraining again. 

But, I did experience my first UTI last week ?

I honestly have zero clue how it could have happened. I've worn and used diapers on and off throughout recovery. Wiped front to back. Avoided (I think) touching that area in unclean ways. The only things sitting in the back of my mind is having been basically 24/7 the past few weeks up until the UTI. And the one time I finally felt some kind of sexual need and acted on it. 

I *hope* that somehow the sexual thing was what somehow caused it, and not diapers. I *hope* I'm not one of those people predisposed to UTIs...either way, I'm introducing cranberry juice and pills to my routine and upping my water intake. And upping my hygene to what feels like paranoid standards. Going to try powdering the area again with cornstarch to keep it drier. Changing sooner, so I don't feel wetness.

All that aside, I swear my control (of both) has gotten worse despite not untraining yet. I'll get an urge very suddenly and strongly, and it takes a lot of my concentration to resist it. I was just barely successful in avoiding a messy accident this morning, in squeezing hard enough to make the urgency stop. It used to be easy to make that happen...I've not had to struggle so much like this before, to need to stop what I'm doing and concentrate 100% on it.

Bladder control is a bit better but also a bit more unpredictable. Sometimes the urges are nearly as strong and difficult to stop. Other times I've gone as long as four hours without urges (though, that could be due to underhydration tbh...the urge still hits pretty strong).

Experiencing mixed feelings about those things above...At what point do I see doctors about it specifically? I've been to the docs and had imaging done down there so many times the past three months for unrelated problems...you'd think anything obvious would have come up?

But at the same time, am I imagining things worse than they really are? Would I waste their (and frankly my) time? Because at the same time...I find some happiness in the changes, and I want to give in and move on with it. So part of me thinks it's just in my head. I mean, it's not like I've really had an accident yet. I've made it to the toilet.

But even if it were does it matter if I have to stop and 100% focus to prevent an accident? 

*sigh* Lots of feelings hitting me all at once

[~Brian~]

@Kif

Thank you for the update on your journey-although I must say that a UTI is one of the worst things that people would have to deal with. This is due to the fact that people sometimes get ill, which causes the UTI, or it is due to people who are not keeping clean downstairs. I don't think you have to worry about that problem, but UTI s are terrible - I've had them myself - however I was lucky enough only have them three times in my life.   Once was because of me being in the hospital for a month and having a catheter placed inside me to take care of wetting, instead of using a urinal bedside . For a long while I had to use the catheter, and the bedpan, as well as the bedside urinal . When I came home , there was definitely something going on because of all of the germs and the infection was going crazy . My doctor prescribed monistat 3 and it was gone in four days - I don't envy you one bit !

Hopefully, they will be able to find out what is going on, so you will be able to fully heal and be able to enjoy yourself more as you complete the post-op process. Once that is completed, you should be able to return to your untraining journey, and it sounds to me like you're already half there, because you have to force yourself to remember to hold it, rather than just releasing it.

Hang in there - sounds like you're almost at the finish line - sometimes you have to do things that you don't want to do in order to get to something that you want to do.  Your diapers will be waiting for you on the other side!

*****HUGS******

Brian

Edited May 23, 2022 by ~Brian~
Word Edits

[ozziebee]

You have to remember that your urethra is now a tiny fraction of the length it was prior to surgery. The urethra has been cut down to the prostate. 

 

With all the work and cutting having been done, and sutures and scarring, the way your pelvic muscles react will have changes too. 

 

So short answer, dont stress. 

[oznl]

4 hours ago, ozziebee said:

You have to remember that your urethra is now a tiny fraction of the length it was prior to surgery. The urethra has been cut down to the prostate. 

 

With all the work and cutting having been done, and sutures and scarring, the way your pelvic muscles react will have changes too. 

 

So short answer, dont stress. 

In terms of direct lived experience I’m stunningly unqualified to comment other than to say that from the outside looking in, this comment makes a lot of common sense to me. 

From where I stand, it looks like you’ve just surgically acquired one of the compromises of female anatomy: a urethra so short it looks like a freeway on-ramp to bladder-town for bacteria waiting outside.  I’m well aware that my beloved (cis-female) does NOT require diapers to acquire one of her periodic UTIs ?  A bit of dehydration will do it. 

I guess prolonged dirty diapers would always be an aggravated risk as would be bacterial colonisation of your perineum due to hygiene issues but as others have said, pee itself is pretty clean assuming you are well.

[Kif]

Gee if hydration can do it, maybe I don't need to be so quick to blame/worry about diapers ?

I guess it's a nice reminder that folks in normal undies get these too...I'm not alone there, thanks ?

[sparklezBear]

On 5/23/2022 at 6:03 PM, oznl said:

A bit of dehydration will do it. 

Almost always this. Unless you happen to have some level of ignorance and start wiping back to front.

[Kif]

Well, here we are after the next revision! 

Had to have a cath put in as they widened my urethra a bit in addition to all the other stuff. And of course, that somehow led to a UTI a few days in (no surprise there, honestly). It'll come out soon, just have to let the urethra etc heal up a bit. 

So, resting up, chugging antibiotics yet again, and hoping that this all turns out fine in another few months. Sigh.

Another reminder, I guess, that for the trans Littles out there these surgeries can take lots of time and patience. Having support here and in other social circles helps lots, even if I have to avoid laughing at the moment! XD

[DiaperDean]

Really have enjoyed reading these posts.

On 9/11/2021 at 9:20 PM, Kif said:

when dry it "flattens" my front

This is one of the other reasons I loves wearing diapers, no bulges when dry, only flatness ? positioned and even I cannot tell something is down ther, which can be a good thing ?

[Kif]

22 hours ago, DiaperDean said:

Really have enjoyed reading these posts.

This is one of the other reasons I loves wearing diapers, no bulges when dry, only flatness ? positioned and even I cannot tell something is down there, which can be a good thing ?

Thanks DiaperDean! I'm glad you're enjoying these posts. 

I must say, having worn diapers post-op, the flatness effect doesn't become 'more flat' or anything like that. I think the only change really was a better distribution of pee and an increased hygiene regimen (to reduce risk of UTIs). Diapers really are the gender neutralizer of all!

 

Update-wise, I have had my cath out for a few days now and I am floored at how well I can pee now. I hadn't realized how constrained it had become post-op and now there's no comparison. It's *so nice*. 

Ofc there are other complications unfortunately
Will probably mean I end up having another surgery to correct them in the fall...UGH. Ngl, getting tired of feeling like a piece of meat. Whenever these surgeries happen I have to put my normal life on hold for 2-3 months...no intense exercise, reduced walking, bending over, etc, and ofc no diapers. Not to mention the emotional labor of seeing my body cut up and trying to heal again.

I guess the only thing I really can do is control my diet and do more sedentary hobbies (like chatting with friends, which ofc rocks, but it'd be nice to do more physical hobbies again). I'd have loved to done some mountain biking this summer but oh well there's next year I suppose.

But at least I can pee reaaaaal good now ?

[Kif]

So I'm pretty sure I have stress incon at this point...

I haven't been wearing diapers since this second surgery...I've been in big girl undies and pads to contain discharge etc.

Last evening, I had a particularly fun night with friends online. I laughed a lot throughout, but I noticed that I seemed to be unintentionally leaking pee.

I tried to hold it back because I had zero intentions to wet...For one thing, I'm fresh out of another surgery and need to keep the stitches clean. For another, while the pads are decent they cannot handle a full wetting nor do they have leak guards; I'd be risking getting my clothes and the couch wet.

Unfortunately, despite these intentions, after one particularly funny moment I couldn't stop what felt like quite a lot of pee leaking. It wasn't like the floodgates opened and all let loose, it was more like heavy spurts that I couldn't stop. Feeling wet, I excused myself to the bathroom. And, upon inspection, found my pad soaked and leaking onto my undies.

I didn't want to stop for the evening so I wiped myself off and threw on a Seni Super I had lying around. Fortunately that kept my clothes cleaner than the pad did...that also ended up moderately wet as well, but I don't give it as much weight since I'm comfortable in diapers. That said, I didn't just go free-for-all and let whatever happen happen...I did try to fight it, and still failed. 

So...Yeah.

Whether by combination of my slight untraining before surgery, complications and catheterization after, pre-existing issues, or what...I guess I have that now. Not that I mind in the long term, but the timing aaaaaain't great for surgery recovery! XD