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ABDLism =/= LGBT


Elfy

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  • 5 months later...

ABDL and LBGTQ are  NOT one in the same. ABDL is on the lines of fettish witch is completely different then a sexuality which is what LBGTQ is. Sexuality defines gender preference and fetish defines specific interests and phillea which all human beings are turned on by somthing. E.g. a fetish is "what exactly turns you on sexually." 

 You can be ABDL and be of any sexuality. All ABDL explains is that either you prefer to act as a baby or you love diapers or both. 

 Not only does the American association of psychology agree but I also know a hetero couple (a guy married to a gal) who are both AB and DL. They take turns, one is the baby while the other is the parent. They switch every so often.

I am a gay DL. BTW

Phillea is a suffix, The Greek word phillealous literally means sexual. Phillea being a suffix it is not a complete word. For example necro (a prefix meaning dead) plus phillea you get Necrophilia which means a sexual kink for the dead.  It's elementary electric company.

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In conclusion, ABDL is a sexual fettish, meaning you are more aroused sexually when you are in an infant like state of mind and/or wearing and/or using diapers. A phellia describes your sexual interests. Phillias never discribe your gender preference. Sexuality is what describes your gender preference. 

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I have to partially disagree here. ABDL isn't always sexually driven, nor is something sexual always involved beyond the usual level of how any two people interact. I thing we all "read" something sexual into it, and even attempt to make it that way since sexual feelings are pleasant. Yet in time, some of us discover that it really doesn't have any sexual connotations to it. I feel the same way about being TG- it isn't necessarily about sex at all, but both can be. My diapers are just underwear to me now, and that is the same wherever my shifting gender happens to be at the moment. There is only whatever sexuality we may place on underwear happening here, which can be considerable to nearly absent.  

There are so many different things involved with both that we can only make wide generalizations about them, and every individual will be different. In those vast differences there has to be at least one whose TG and ABDL are one and the same because there are so many of us humans involved here, just as there has to be the total opposite somewhere too. How society views and treats each of us can be similar though, as neither is yet as well-accepted as they should be.

Bettypooh

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I agree. I wear diapers not only because of being DL, but also they are a life saver. I use them when i go out in case of accidents. The accidents are the primary reason I wear diapers.  The secondary reason is because I am DL. 

 I am 27, so the accidents are embarrassing. I started wetting when I was 8. Doctors say it was because of my mild retardation and autism. So I totally get what your saying 

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On 8/9/2018 at 2:49 AM, PamperDude said:

The Greek word phillealous literally means sexual. Phillea being a suffix it is not a complete word. For example necro (a prefix meaning dead) plus phillea you get Necrophilia which means a sexual kink for the dead.

Where did you study Greek? 

Philia is one of the four Greek words describing the concept of love. Artistotle describes Philia as friendship or affection, it is NOT inherently sexual. In the modern era that medical and psychological communities have applied a sexual meaning to the term, but it was not always so. Thus we have Philadelphia, the City of Brotherly Love, no sexual attraction meant there.

In psychological texts ABDL is referred to as Paraphillic Infantilism. Para meaning "abnormal" and philia meaning "attraction"

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On 8/16/2018 at 10:57 AM, Darkfinn said:

Where did you study Greek? 

Philia is one of the four Greek words describing the concept of love. Artistotle describes Philia as friendship or affection, it is NOT inherently sexual. In the modern era that medical and psychological communities have applied a sexual meaning to the term, but it was not always so. Thus we have Philadelphia, the City of Brotherly Love, no sexual attraction meant there.

In psychological texts ABDL is referred to as Paraphillic Infantilism. Para meaning "abnormal" and philia meaning "attraction"

The Greek word that denotes "sexual" is "Eros", hence "erotic"

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Except, in plain English and through context and synonym usage, using the direct Greek root translation is wrong. The first hint is that these are not Greek words, but Greekesque, or "inspired by."

Why is this important? Because it is a hint that they should not be directly translated.

So how do we translate it then? Well lets look at common synonyms used.

Abnormal, deviation, or unusual. (Note, aberration is not used as a synonym for this word. This is important.)

So, a lot of people like to take paraphilia and turn it into a bad thing. It isn't. It is science Jargon for a behavior which is not considered the norm. That is why I made note that aberration was not used as a synonym in academic sources. Aberration or mal-adaptive or terms used to indicate that something is bad or inherently unhealthy. Being abnormal, while in common usage has a negative connotation, in academic usage literally means "falls outside of the statistical mean, aka norm." 

It is just a fancy why to say that statistically we are not normal in our sexual practices. (Paraphilia is used EXCLUSIVELY with sexual activity.) Now, here is where things get tricky. If diapers are not sexual for you, you should not be described as a paraphilic infantilist, or if age play is not something you engage in for sexual gratification, it should not apply. For me, the infantlism does nothing for me really, but the object based fetish does (Aka Paraphilic Infantlism ParapherniliaL Infantial object based fetish.) 

Now, the people who are non-sexual, the psych stuff doesn't have much. My psych, when I asked this question, said she would probably call it functional adaptive self-treatment to incontincence induced trauma, and would likely support the behavior as long as day to day functionality and mental stability was observed. She also did suggest that people who were not incontinent, and engaged in this behavior for non-sexual reasons are probably still responding to a trauma, and not necessarily one that occurred as a child. She went to theorize that a child who suffered a mood disorder, such as anxiety, depression, ADHD, etc... who was an effective only child, who then had to deal with an infant or toddler entering the household, could develop the desires as their developing anxiety filled minds connect a perceived partial exile from the spotlight of the household, and it then becomes hardwired that their self-worth is determined by the more childlike behavior they can engage in, and it comes a stress response. She said she does not consider the behavior dangerous in this situation, but like all other forms of self-medication, the underlying damage should be treated, so that the individual can reduce the stress without depending on a socially taboo activity which only increases the stress level.

All of the above is exactly why ABDL and LGBTQ are not linked. LGBTQ is not an adaptation to stress, or other conditions, is not a sexual fetish, despite some peoples beliefs, and is not a learned behavior. (Statistically speaking, a same sex parent couple is just as likely to have a gay child as a mixed sex parent couple. There is a higher percentage of body and orientation positivity that comes from same sex parent couples though.) ABDL is an adaptation to an event, trauma, or is poorly a sexual fetish (which can be a learned behavior by the way.) and the reality is that is probably a combination of all three in most of us.

Me, I was the longest of four children, with each of us being seperated about by 15 or more years. The next youngest in my family was 18 when I was born. My mom thought she was to old to get preggers and I guess I had to prove her wrong. So I don't fit the model do it? But wait, I was effectively the only child, and then my then 24 year old sister got pregnant,  (Making me 6 by the way) then dumped by her boyfriend. (Who had already knocked her up, the same year I was born, once before despite safe sex practices... really should of been a warning to me that us X women are super furtile...) She moved back in with her new infant. And there I was. Not only was I no longer an only child, but I now had a familial peer of the exact same age, and an infant that took both our spotlights.

My niece, who was six with me, she just became the typical rebel, and is adopted unsafe sex practices, IE she was caught in the sixth grade giving a seventh grade boy a blow job. I started bed wetting, having accidents... and unhealthy sex practices. (I was with my niece on the same day she was caught, just the boy I was with and I did not get caught.)

I realized I was gay probably around 12 or so, but I was in denial of it until very recently. This of course led me to more accidents, and extreme behaviors, as well as more sexual unhealthiness. Most people didn't notice or ignored it, because I was also type A so I had to be the best at everything, and I was a stellar student by grades and athletic performance.

Now that I know more about myself in the now, and am open to reflecting on my previous life activities, I can acknowledge some of those problems, own them, and take better care of myself now. However, the only reason I even saw a therapist was because cancer made  me incontinent, which of course was only caught because I got myself knocked up and they did a full physical. (So ironically my unhealthy sexual practices saved my life?) There is a big long story there for another post. The conclusion though, is that even though I now have a legit need for diapers, my desire for them has become more practical, and has shifted more to the functional adaptation do the need for them now, a behavior my pysch encourages, as long as I keep it to moderation.

In short, LGBTQ is normal. ABDL people, we are not normal. We are reacting to something that happened in our lives, and we should all probably reflect and figure out what that is, if we havn't already. This isn't saying ABDL is evil, and bad, and should be abolished, but that the thing we are reacting to is probably affecting us in other areas of our life as well, and we should seek to understand and control that so that we can be more functional human beings over all. Conflating ABDL with LGBTQ allows us to hide whatever we are reacting to more, and just makes the underlying problem worse.

Just look at how many people on this site have admitted to mental health issues, and the such. Our diapers are a reaction to something, figure out what it is. We don't have to stop enjoying diapers (Like I said, fetishes are learned, and we will probably still want diapers, even if our anxiety filled reason for first getting into them is solved) but are more likely to feel less shame about them if we better understand why we want to be in them in the first place.

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 I really appreciate your response. I really like the way you worded it. I agree. I know what causes me to want to wear diapers, the stresses, and the other contributing factors.

 Because I know what is causing me to want to wear, doesn't defeat the desire to. It actually instills confidence, making me want to wear diapers more frequent and with more confidence.

 AB/DL can be sexual, but isn't completely sexual. For some I think it's an accepted lifestyle.

It can be a coping mechanism, in more ways than one. As long as it doesn't interfere with life activities, and does not cause serious issiues, it is a good thing that can turn into a bad thing if not properly checked.

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  • 2 months later...
On 8/20/2018 at 10:54 AM, GhostGirl said:

Except, in plain English and through context and synonym usage, using the direct Greek root translation is wrong. The first hint is that these are not Greek words, but Greekesque, or "inspired by."

Why is this important? Because it is a hint that they should not be directly translated.

So how do we translate it then? Well lets look at common synonyms used.

Abnormal, deviation, or unusual. (Note, aberration is not used as a synonym for this word. This is important.)

So, a lot of people like to take paraphilia and turn it into a bad thing. It isn't. It is science Jargon for a behavior which is not considered the norm. That is why I made note that aberration was not used as a synonym in academic sources. Aberration or mal-adaptive or terms used to indicate that something is bad or inherently unhealthy. Being abnormal, while in common usage has a negative connotation, in academic usage literally means "falls outside of the statistical mean, aka norm." 

It is just a fancy why to say that statistically we are not normal in our sexual practices. (Paraphilia is used EXCLUSIVELY with sexual activity.) Now, here is where things get tricky. If diapers are not sexual for you, you should not be described as a paraphilic infantilist, or if age play is not something you engage in for sexual gratification, it should not apply. For me, the infantlism does nothing for me really, but the object based fetish does (Aka Paraphilic Infantlism ParapherniliaL Infantial object based fetish.) 

Now, the people who are non-sexual, the psych stuff doesn't have much. My psych, when I asked this question, said she would probably call it functional adaptive self-treatment to incontincence induced trauma, and would likely support the behavior as long as day to day functionality and mental stability was observed. She also did suggest that people who were not incontinent, and engaged in this behavior for non-sexual reasons are probably still responding to a trauma, and not necessarily one that occurred as a child. She went to theorize that a child who suffered a mood disorder, such as anxiety, depression, ADHD, etc... who was an effective only child, who then had to deal with an infant or toddler entering the household, could develop the desires as their developing anxiety filled minds connect a perceived partial exile from the spotlight of the household, and it then becomes hardwired that their self-worth is determined by the more childlike behavior they can engage in, and it comes a stress response. She said she does not consider the behavior dangerous in this situation, but like all other forms of self-medication, the underlying damage should be treated, so that the individual can reduce the stress without depending on a socially taboo activity which only increases the stress level.

All of the above is exactly why ABDL and LGBTQ are not linked. LGBTQ is not an adaptation to stress, or other conditions, is not a sexual fetish, despite some peoples beliefs, and is not a learned behavior. (Statistically speaking, a same sex parent couple is just as likely to have a gay child as a mixed sex parent couple. There is a higher percentage of body and orientation positivity that comes from same sex parent couples though.) ABDL is an adaptation to an event, trauma, or is poorly a sexual fetish (which can be a learned behavior by the way.) and the reality is that is probably a combination of all three in most of us.

Me, I was the longest of four children, with each of us being seperated about by 15 or more years. The next youngest in my family was 18 when I was born. My mom thought she was to old to get preggers and I guess I had to prove her wrong. So I don't fit the model do it? But wait, I was effectively the only child, and then my then 24 year old sister got pregnant,  (Making me 6 by the way) then dumped by her boyfriend. (Who had already knocked her up, the same year I was born, once before despite safe sex practices... really should of been a warning to me that us X women are super furtile...) She moved back in with her new infant. And there I was. Not only was I no longer an only child, but I now had a familial peer of the exact same age, and an infant that took both our spotlights.

My niece, who was six with me, she just became the typical rebel, and is adopted unsafe sex practices, IE she was caught in the sixth grade giving a seventh grade boy a blow job. I started bed wetting, having accidents... and unhealthy sex practices. (I was with my niece on the same day she was caught, just the boy I was with and I did not get caught.)

I realized I was gay probably around 12 or so, but I was in denial of it until very recently. This of course led me to more accidents, and extreme behaviors, as well as more sexual unhealthiness. Most people didn't notice or ignored it, because I was also type A so I had to be the best at everything, and I was a stellar student by grades and athletic performance.

Now that I know more about myself in the now, and am open to reflecting on my previous life activities, I can acknowledge some of those problems, own them, and take better care of myself now. However, the only reason I even saw a therapist was because cancer made  me incontinent, which of course was only caught because I got myself knocked up and they did a full physical. (So ironically my unhealthy sexual practices saved my life?) There is a big long story there for another post. The conclusion though, is that even though I now have a legit need for diapers, my desire for them has become more practical, and has shifted more to the functional adaptation do the need for them now, a behavior my pysch encourages, as long as I keep it to moderation.

In short, LGBTQ is normal. ABDL people, we are not normal. We are reacting to something that happened in our lives, and we should all probably reflect and figure out what that is, if we havn't already. This isn't saying ABDL is evil, and bad, and should be abolished, but that the thing we are reacting to is probably affecting us in other areas of our life as well, and we should seek to understand and control that so that we can be more functional human beings over all. Conflating ABDL with LGBTQ allows us to hide whatever we are reacting to more, and just makes the underlying problem worse.

Just look at how many people on this site have admitted to mental health issues, and the such. Our diapers are a reaction to something, figure out what it is. We don't have to stop enjoying diapers (Like I said, fetishes are learned, and we will probably still want diapers, even if our anxiety filled reason for first getting into them is solved) but are more likely to feel less shame about them if we better understand why we want to be in them in the first place.

I don't buy your psych's theories at all. If you look at Understanding Infantilism's research, which is the most extensive research I've seen on ABDLs, there's a slight elevation of a few psych conditions (which, incidentally, is also true of LGBT people - for example autism spectrum conditions are linked to fetishes, bi/asexuality, and transgender identity), but certainly far less than your psych's theory would suggest. The majority of ABDLs don't have any psych conditions.

I think it's also relevant to point out that a few decades ago, prevailing psych wisdom was that being LGBT was definitely abnormal and due to psych issues, such as having a poor relationship with the same-sex parent. This has been largely disproved.

Normal vs abnormal is very subjective in general.

By a purely statistical definition, being gay or trans is definitely abnormal, since both are present in less than 5% of the population. In fact the only LGBT identity that would be considered normal is bisexuality, because depending on how you define it, between 8-40% of people are bi.

If you define it as something 'wrong', then it's extremely subjective. Is it because you think being ABDL is environmental? So is your religious beliefs, and what language you speak. Is it that you feel it comes from an underlying factor that causes distress? My lack of religious beliefs are in part due to being abused by Christians. That doesn't mean that being atheist is something 'wrong' with me, or that healing my trauma would involve becoming Christian.

I know of a lesbian sexual abuse survivor who said that she doesn't even care if her abuse is why she's lesbian - if it is, "at least something good came out of the abuse". Now, I don't think abuse makes someone LGBT (or ABDL for that matter) but I also agree that even if it did, that wouldn't make it a bad thing even if it came from something bad.

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On 11/17/2018 at 10:04 AM, Elbs said:

I don't buy your psych's theories at all. If you look at Understanding Infantilism's research, which is the most extensive research I've seen on ABDLs, there's a slight elevation of a few psych conditions (which, incidentally, is also true of LGBT people - for example autism spectrum conditions are linked to fetishes, bi/asexuality, and transgender identity), but certainly far less than your psych's theory would suggest. The majority of ABDLs don't have any psych conditions.

I think it's also relevant to point out that a few decades ago, prevailing psych wisdom was that being LGBT was definitely abnormal and due to psych issues, such as having a poor relationship with the same-sex parent. This has been largely disproved.

Normal vs abnormal is very subjective in general.

By a purely statistical definition, being gay or trans is definitely abnormal, since both are present in less than 5% of the population. In fact the only LGBT identity that would be considered normal is bisexuality, because depending on how you define it, between 8-40% of people are bi.

If you define it as something 'wrong', then it's extremely subjective. Is it because you think being ABDL is environmental? So is your religious beliefs, and what language you speak. Is it that you feel it comes from an underlying factor that causes distress? My lack of religious beliefs are in part due to being abused by Christians. That doesn't mean that being atheist is something 'wrong' with me, or that healing my trauma would involve becoming Christian.

I know of a lesbian sexual abuse survivor who said that she doesn't even care if her abuse is why she's lesbian - if it is, "at least something good came out of the abuse". Now, I don't think abuse makes someone LGBT (or ABDL for that matter) but I also agree that even if it did, that wouldn't make it a bad thing even if it came from something bad.

The challenge with your claims is that ABDL, like most fetish communities, are really hard to count. Furthermore, if we accept the basic premise that many are self-medicating due to trauma (Which is not only abuse, which you implied in your response, feel free to correct me if I read it wrong.) they are unlikely to self-report, and if they manage moderation, medical intervention is unlikely to take place. Alcohol, and drug use as a form of self-medication gets detected more due to the medical consequences of those lifestyle choices.

Again, this is not to say that people are "wrong" for wanting to wear diapers, even if it is a response to an underlying trauma. I am only proposing the theory that ABDLism is a response to some form of stimuli that needs to be balanced out. This is not what causes people to be gay, as far as science can tell. (Although with many homosexual individuals, there is room for error as the mere fact of being gay in our society creates a whole host of shames, guilts, and worse, which can send us into mental health spirals.)

You also have to understand I am not using abnormal to say something is wrong, and it is not subjective in an academic sense. Abnormal simply means it falls out of statistical norms. IE, if we have 100 people, and 99 people are not ABDLs and 1 is, statistically speaking, that means the one ABDL is abnormal. I made the point over and over that there is nothing "wrong" which is a morale judgement. (In this context, wrong can be a factual judgement as well, such as the shape of a circle is either drawn correctly, or incorrectly.)

Now I probably should of been more careful when I described LGBTQ as normal. That was a poor choice of word inspired by counseling people coming out at my college. LGBTQ is, most likely according to current scientific study, biologically determined. There is a lot of science here, looking at chromosomes, DNA, etc... but more and more evidence is growing that homosexuality is biologically determined. That is a whole other post.

Being ABDL is not biologically determined. You do not have a gene in your body that says "You will want to wear diapers." That gene can not exist. What you do have are memories, traumas, and associations, which can trigger preferences and fetishes later in life. 

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I hate the word "normal" because with the vast diversity in humans, no such thing really exists. And "abnormal" carries negative connotations even if it's 'dictionary definition' doesn't :huh: Instead I think "usual" and "unusual" are a better choice of wordage as they do not carry any connotations, negative or positive ;) In my nearly 60 years on this planet I've seen almost all the kinds of people there are, and for them they are normal even if unusual, just the same as I am normal for me even if you're different. So let's get past the idea that any humans are normal or abnormal because we aren't. We're just all different, that's all B)

The psychology of all this has changed over time, and will change more in the future. There is no single (or even multiple) cause or motivation for any differences we have which is universal in nature. Sometimes no cause or motivation can be found. We are very complex beings and the deeper you look, the more apparent it becomes that it's useless to try to find causes for what makes us who and what we are, except as something we wish to pursue in our own self. What we may find there will not apply to everyone else or maybe even anyone else.

The key thing to remember is that whatever our differences may be, we all have things in common and our differences and commonalities are normal, even if perhaps unusual sometimes. As long as who you are and what you do harms noone, there's nothing wrong about it and it doesn't need any further looking into. We'd do better with our time to be looking into the things which are harmful and try to find solutions for them- there's certainly no lack of subjects to be doing that with.

Bettypooh

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I'm kinda still confused here about why this conversation continues.

The biggest reason ABDL =/= LGBT is, very simply, you can wear diapers in public if you want.  You just can't non-consensually involve others in your kink by showing them off.  But that's true of every kink - participate in it all you want, don't just force strangers to participate by being an exhibitionist.  

Now, if you feel persecuted because people perceive ABDL as weird and creepy, well, guess what?  There is a huge list of kinks out there that people perceive as weird and creepy.  Join the club.  Furries are still the butt of jokes on a routine basis.  And let's not even talk about breath play, urolagnia, coprophagia, and other dark shit.  

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16 hours ago, WBDaddy said:

I'm kinda still confused here about why this conversation continues.

The biggest reason ABDL =/= LGBT is, very simply, you can wear diapers in public if you want.  You just can't non-consensually involve others in your kink by showing them off.  But that's true of every kink - participate in it all you want, don't just force strangers to participate by being an exhibitionist.  

Now, if you feel persecuted because people perceive ABDL as weird and creepy, well, guess what?  There is a huge list of kinks out there that people perceive as weird and creepy.  Join the club.  Furries are still the butt of jokes on a routine basis.  And let's not even talk about breath play, urolagnia, coprophagia, and other dark shit.  

In most places, you can also kiss your same-sex partner in public, or go out wearing clothes that match your gender rather than your assigned sex, and the only reason not to is negative judgement, same as with wearing diapers. Sure, some places do still have laws against it, but many don't, and the definition of oppression doesn't require legal sanctions against you.

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