Frustrating when we destroy what little recognition exists

[diaperpt]

"There is an amazing lack of logic here and the subject has been expanded to include things that just are not there.

[timmyc]

saying abdl friendly, is being discrete

saying adult baby pampers is not

[Little BabyDoll Christine]

Diaperpt: If we are not going to deal in logic and fac in the evaluation then there is no connection to truth and well it is just a bunch of floating abstractions that mean nothing and might as well be "ibbity bibbity bobbity boo. octopadoola koma to loob". Now if someone confronted me with stuff of that nature I would say "Offended you are? a shit I don't give". would you like to be on trial for your life under those conditions? Language, meaning, comprehension and nderstanding of any sort is not possible so nothing else is because the same thing means different things to everyone with no Rosetta Stone. It is like the various tinfoil tiara conspiracies with everyone talking by each other. There is a whole branch of Philosophy that deals with that called "Epistemology"

What you described as the characteristics of "ABDL friendly" would be true of all, not just related to ABDL. Anyone would want discreet packaging. In fact, from what I have seen here, a good number of ABDL's would want the package to say "DIAPERS" in 100pt flaming red letters. So, as a group, I would infer that a lower percentage of ABDL's than non-ABDL's would want discreet packaging. You are reading things into it that are not stated. I am not a telepath, nor do I play one on television so I do not pretend to be one in real life. Therefore I take things to mean what they say, Otherwise you end up with paralysis by analysis trying to figure out what "is" is then what "i" and s" are and so forth down to the subnuclear particles in the ink, paper and air around them and nothing gets done. Bringing up the matter on the site opened the door to a myriad of interpretations and creates a distinction without a difference upon which someone took them. Sometimes it is better to let sleeping dogs lie. A closed mouth gathers no foot. Simply say "All our customers are treated with dignity and respect". Then there are no misimpressions given

Now as to non-ABDL's being offended; if they have eyes, they too, would have read "ABDL friendly" and expect there to be posts from ABL's relevant TO ABDL's if they have a moiety of their marbles and did not spend their lives in a wicker basket. So they should grow up. Nobody put a gun to their heads to force them to read of acknowledge the ABLD posts

[messyman]

Considering that in Canada age play is a grey area of the law I am surprised they said they were ABDL friendly in the first place.

[diaperpt]

My point about logic and reasoning is that we can't impose our desire for logic and reason onto someone else whose logic/reasoning either doesn't match ours or is non-existent. The people running that site obviously don't conform to your sense of reasoning and logic.

[Little BabyDoll Christine]

The whole point of logic and reason is that it IS the same for all as far as functioning goes. Otherwise there is no basis for an exchange of ideas or even of thinking process outside one's own whims or momentary feelings. That has been the standard of civilized society and of being able to have any expectation that the person you meet will not murder you in 5 minutes from now for 2300 years. We take that for granted. the difference comes form the premises we start the process with but that process is what enables us to develop beyond being self-absorbed. the similarity is and its recognition is how we know that we have contacted another sane mind as opposed to a raving lunatic

Now. you say you hold me in high regard. you are depending on me to be in some way rational and not snarl at you. That is an implicit sense of logic and we take it for granted

I do not put any group or "identity" above another. I treat persons as individuals. To do otherwise is to concede the premises of the haters because they base their whole mode of life on "us" and "them". Is that not what we ran away from in 1776? Groups do not exist, only individuals do. Group is a relationship among individuals. Didn't someone once say something about being judged by content of one's character? That was fromj the Enlightenment which was the follow-on to the Age of Reason/ The primacy of the group over the individual negates the need for, or even the concept of, self-responsibility, self-respect or even of having a self and renders each to the status of a bee or an ant

But we digress. The point is someone put something on their site that really made no real difference or should have made no difference since the proper thing is to treat persons as individuals and take each as themselves, not as part of any group, all of which have good and bad members, and then got "yes" for an answer and did not like it

[BabyAltair]

The whole point of logic and reason is that it IS the same for all as far as functioning goes. Otherwise there is no basis for an exchange of ideas or even of thinking process outside one's own whims or momentary feelings. That has been the standard of civilized society and of being able to have any expectation that the person you meet will not murder you in 5 minutes from now for 2300 years. We take that for granted. the difference comes form the premises we start the process with but that process is what enables us to develop beyond being self-absorbed. the similarity is and its recognition is how we know that we have contacted another sane mind as opposed to a raving lunatic

Now. you say you hold me in high regard. you are depending on me to be in some way rational and not snarl at you. That is an implicit sense of logic and we take it for granted

I do not put any group or "identity" above another. I treat persons as individuals. To do otherwise is to concede the premises of the haters because they base their whole mode of life on "us" and "them". Is that not what we ran away from in 1776? Groups do not exist, only individuals do. Group is a relationship among individuals. Didn't someone once say something about being judged by content of one's character? That was fromj the Enlightenment which was the follow-on to the Age of Reason/ The primacy of the group over the individual negates the need for, or even the concept of, self-responsibility, self-respect or even of having a self and renders each to the status of a bee or an ant

But we digress. The point is someone put something on their site that really made no real difference or should have made no difference since the proper thing is to treat persons as individuals and take each as themselves, not as part of any group, all of which have good and bad members, and then got "yes" for an answer and did not like it

Anything with any gray area in the definition or usage is subjective.

What does friendly mean? I'm friendly to people I just met, and I'm also friendly with my best friend, however, I treat them vastly different.

Getting overly friendly with someone can mean being clingy, or performing sexual advances.

Logic is objective, reason is objective, but that doesn't matter in the slightest, because human beings are not logical and reasonable. You can say we are all you want, but when it comes down to it, unless you're a sociopath, emotion influences you and every decision you make, and emotion is completely subjective.

On grouping, it's impossible to not unconsciously group things, especially when we're talking numbers and anonymous individuals like they were. Our brains function by grouping things, and it's completely unreasonable on an immense scale to expect a business to cater to every possible customer as an individual.

[Little BabyDoll Christine]

A gray area is not "subjecttivie" it is "mixed" meaning that premises, the facts you start with, may conflict. appear to conflict, be incomplete or be vague enough to yield many interpretations and even via logic yield different results. "Subjecitiv" means that you make it up inside your skull; as they say "not grounded in reality". Now, it is true that the use of logic is individual. In fact, I can take a set of totally false premises, apply valid reasoning and come up with something perfectly valid but totally false. Also, there are differning levels of rigor from the formal to the everyday causual What it means is that if you think something is true or false there is a "why" to it. a "Because....". This becomes a matter of perspective

Beyond that, absent logic there is nomeans of dealing with each other than by name-calling and its big brother force, which is the way of the thug, Nazi, Fascist or Communist because no means of persuasion is possible. Logic as a process gives us a means of dealing with each other so that we need not keep one eye on our neighbor and one hand on a weapon or, not have things be a shouting match. All civilized and peacful societies claim to be so based on a respect for reason and have done so over the last 2300 years

The perfect example is her. One person took "ABL friendly" to mean "post away". Most of us here would not, thhough some might. In either case the reasoning was probably the same. The premisies from which we start may be different

Now I am talking about using logic to evaluate this whole business. Some of us here are appalled that he did this. It comes from the site not making clear what may and may not be done so I am not bent out of shape because it is predictable that this would happen. That would be true regardless of whether I think it was a good or proper idea to do this. I would not have unlrdd I found out it was all right to do so. But then I keep such matters private to begin with. In my reviews here, I deliberately examine the "littleness" of the rubber panties, Do you think I would do that with A. C. Medical or Babykins; in fact Babykins went out of their wayto state tha ttheir rubber panties were not baby or little, or Comco? Not on your life! Now the interesting thing here is that some 27 years ago, I was discussing an order with Comco and the lady recommended another product as a "training pant" and one or two others all of which had AB implications. But since I was not interested in them and since this was a gray area. I did not pursue it and decided to let sleeping dogs lie. The difference is that in the cases I just named, I was a participant, here, I am evaluationg as an observer

Now, the site owner may not have understood what some of the consequences of his action would be due to lack of experience. the poster may have thought "well it is 'ABDL friendly' so it must be all right". Both had perfectly good reasons to do what they did at the causual level. So I am not bent out of shape since it was eminently predictable and each was acting as an individual. The issue of ABDL's invading the site was, from what I saw, not part of it so that was extraneous. the site owner may have done better to say "ABDL aware" and "We treat all our customers with respect and care with respect to matters of privacy"

[diaperpt]

Despite my desire to let this be done, I kind of want to say that I'm not responding because I don't want to try to force my way of thinking on you.

[Little BabyDoll Christine]

I think we have exhausted the subject matter

It is however, a shame that that event had to happen despite the fact that it is paper diapers and nothing to me, it does demonstrate the results of uncler thinking on the part of the two principals and how Murphy is just waiting to pounce. Especially given what DailyDi has told us. Then there are the "ABDL raids" on incon sites. That gives me the grodies. But then you see here how some persons want to make themselves incon as though it would be fun

But that is not new, either. I have very low vision. I was at my ophthmologist's (no I did not bring Dolly or even wear my tiara) and he put some kind of pain killer in my eye and for once it did not burn or ache and I said "I wish I could use that all the time" and he said that it would damage my eye and that some perosons use it to damage their vision so that they can collect disability. I was appalled

[Little BabyDoll Christine]

There was a thread a year or so ago that was sort of the reverse of this one. Someone found a medical supply website that was selling Bambino and maybe ABU SDK and those who saw the thread did double-takes

[Midwest Babygirl]

I just had a funny thought, I wonder if anyone into bondage has ever joined a police forum or called a police station and asked if someone there would restrain them and dominate them

[Little BabyDoll Christine]

That is the old story: You go by what you see of anything. Also the media like to tittilate and will outright misrepresent to do so or if it fit s their agenda

Now, depite the fact that A. C. Medical says they are not "for entertainment" and why, there is a subtext that is ABDL/pvc/rubber. For one thing there is the huge number of photos; far more than are needed in most cases, the detailed knowledge he had about vinyl and his marked preference for the smooth material, as the number of exotic garments and what I was told by one of the girls who did the photo shoots whom I met online elsewhere. But I knew enough to be circumspect. But then, he did not say "ABDL friendly" nor does that site have a forum

I could understand why the incont community would dislike the ABDL's that they see; and sympathize with them. what they do,they do from need, not want so the context is different in the sense of "paying their dues". If you are going to put "ABDL friendly" it is a good idea to qualify and set boundaries. That way, if a numbskull comes in, you at least posted a sign at the door, even if it is just "We expect discretion". I set boundaries on what I am prepared to tolerate (and cught nasty, obscenity/profanity laden grief from some of the lesser evolved individuals: There is a difference between disabreeing and being disabreeable). But then, I have been around much longer and gotten a look at the world

[Bettypooh]

There is more to life than just logic; feelings and emotions also have a place in things and they are just as valid so long as they don't totally override logic I see this both ways for I dislike those who portray ABDL in ways that are generally deemed 'socially unacceptable' But the other side is that I equally dislike the Incontinent who bash ABDL simply because they dislike what their medical condition is to them While everyone may have a valid reason for their position, the bottom line is always going to be whether their portrayal of their position is deemed socially acceptable by the majority or not, for we all live in the same society and that is how it works here. If you can't handle that then you can leave society willingly or face it's rejection of you

[rosalie.bent]

This is truly a fascinating topic as it leads to so many areas.

[pax87]

Woah rosalie! You've pretty much explained me. I've learned that after a certain amount if time passes without my ability to regress even just slightly, then my behavior and reactions will basically blow up so to speak. Sadly, many a time have people told me that my actions are irrational and childish. I get upset over ridiculous stuff and afterwards feel so ashamed for my actions. I'm trying to learn how to kick this behavior. But sadly, it's messing up a lot of things in all areas of my life...

[rosalie.bent]

Woah rosalie! You've pretty much explained me. I've learned that after a certain amount if time passes without my ability to regress even just slightly, then my behavior and reactions will basically blow up so to speak. Sadly, many a time have people told me that my actions are irrational and childish. I get upset over ridiculous stuff and afterwards feel so ashamed for my actions. I'm trying to learn how to kick this behavior. But sadly, it's messing up a lot of things in all areas of my life...

[pax87]

Alright, not kicking it is a good point. I've always been irrational when it gets to that point (which is becoming increasingly more lately). Any suggestions other than the obvious part that I need to balance/incorporate my little side more? I really want to find a happy medium before it becomes too late.

[rosalie.bent]

Alright, not kicking it is a good point. I've always been irrational when it gets to that point (which is becoming increasingly more lately). Any suggestions other than the obvious part that I need to balance/incorporate my little side more? I really want to find a happy medium before it becomes too late.

[pax87]

Yes, you could say I've pushed my little side into a very restricted amount of freedom. So your mention of finding a small activity that controls/prevents essentially my regressive outbursts makes total sense. Sadly, my current living situation prevents certain activities. But I like your idea of sleep time is baby time.

I think for a long time I've carried a lot of guilt and shame regarding my little. Which in turn, also leads to trying to ignore my inner little. Only in the last few years have I been able to shake those thoughts.

Right now, it's just going to be me working through it. But it's great insight coming from you. I've always found your posts very informative. Thanks Rosalie!

Paxy

[rosalie.bent]

Yes, you could say I've pushed my little side into a very restricted amount of freedom. So your mention of finding a small activity that controls/prevents essentially my regressive outbursts makes total sense. Sadly, my current living situation prevents certain activities. But I like your idea of sleep time is baby time.

I think for a long time I've carried a lot of guilt and shame regarding my little. Which in turn, also leads to trying to ignore my inner little. Only in the last few years have I been able to shake those thoughts.

Right now, it's just going to be me working through it. But it's great insight coming from you. I've always found your posts very informative. Thanks Rosalie!

Paxy