Do You Think Infantilism Should Be Kept Secret From The General Public?

[AlliR]

I am an A/B and have been for over 50 years. When I discovered what I was, there were no computers and practically no means of getting any information about my fetish. As the years went by, more and more information surfaced about infantilism. Some from adult book stores but it really blossomed when the internet caught fire. Plain vanilla people call infantilists mentally ill and/or pedophiles. I am neither and resent being tagged as such in the strongest way I know.

I remember how the gay movement struggled three and four decades ago as the general public resented their presence. It was only from consistent public exposure that the acceptance of the gay community has been able to move forward on being more accepted.

In the five decades I have lived through as an A/B I can only recall a handful of brave pioneers willing to put their all on the line and go on a public television show to expose Infantilism. There was Tommy, Stanley and Brent. Their exposure was on The Jerry Springer Show, Taboo, My Crazy Obsession and Dr. Phil.

Admittedly, there were areas where this exposure was harmful. But in every single case, our community was doing a heck of a lot of bashing of them for their efforts. Although they may not be the poster children of our fetish, the question is who is ready to take their place and put themselves out there in the public eye who could better represent us? If we cannot stand behind those few who make the attempt to try and get the general public to understand more about who we are and what we aren’t, then there will never be some measure of leaving us alone without branding us as the villains and threats that we obviously aren’t.

So it gets down to whether you feel that Infantilism should be exposed to the general public or not at all.

I say that if you can’t support those who are out there making the effort, at least don’t bad mouth them for it unless your willing to do what they have and you haven’t. There is much more strength in unity then alone. If we can’t draw from our own group, the strength to project the correct image of what we really are, what can you possibly expect from the general public who are almost completely ignorant of what real infantilism is?

[sarah_ab]

where are you getting this 'plain vanilla couples' think abdl's are pedophiles?

i mean really everyone keeps talking about this and every time this has come up with 'plain vanilla people' i know... they never ONCE not every once.. said anything even remotely related to pedophilia...

we are our worst enemy when it comes to this... everyone is like "i assured her it wasn't pedophilia" when honestly if you hadn't said taht word 'she' most likely wouldn't have thought it....

I just odn't understand who these people are everyone talks to that things people who wear diapers are pedophiles...do all these plain vanilla people live in one city?

and besides that fact that perhaps all the people who go on tv are called crazy is because only someone who is a bit off feesl the need to shout from the rooftops their private behavior...

liking to wear diapers is NOTHING like wanting to be legally allowed to love who you love, and marry who you love... there are no laws preventing us from wearing diapers, there are no laws preventing us from getting married to another person who also likes diapers....

and honestly, if people never went on tv.. then there wouldn't be a world out there heckling us... THEY brought the negative attention upon us.... so basically.. those who bring attention to us are more responsible for the negative attention than anyone who sits back and quietly enjoys their diapers.

I don't support them, but then again i also don't support people who go on tv for any sexual fetish.. its a private thing... and unless you are in the 1% who does not need to worry about a job and paying bills and being in piublic than it IS more dangerous to tell the world about private affairs because you can lose your job (like baby ella) and be threatened with legal action and be investigated (like stanley) and lose your partner (like brett although he claims it is not because of the show)...

so unless you truely are loaded $$$ wise and can pay for anything then airing your dirty laundry (or dirty diapers) on tv... well you get what you ask for when that happens.

I see no reason I should support someone in risking their livelihoods and familiar relationships for some exhibtionistic need.

I do not think abs need to 'be exposed' to the general public just as people with puppy or pony fetish's or balloon fetish's or sex doll fetish's need to be 'exposed' to the general public...

[Diapered Jason]

do all these plain vanilla people live in one city?

Scottsdale? LOL

Hmmm... Sarah, I think people would have found out about us eventually. Why not let it be on our terms? Sure, we want it to be just an in the bedroom thing, but what if you are accidentally caught? Yeah, you will be discriminated against and hated. That is the problem. Whenever the envelope is pushed, there will be push back. It will not be easy, but it is the only path to acceptance. I would prefer it to not just be an in the bedroom thing, but also be judged as such. Right now, the public is not even to that level of acceptance.

[Bettypooh]

....Admittedly, there were areas where this exposure was harmful. But in every single case, our community was doing a heck of a lot of bashing of them for their efforts....

....If we cannot stand behind those few who make the attempt to try and get the general public to understand more about who we are and what we aren’t, then there will never be some measure of leaving us alone without branding us as the villains and threats that we obviously aren’t....

....I say that if you can’t support those who are out there making the effort, at least don’t bad mouth them for it unless your willing to do what they have and you haven’t...

This too. I've sooooo often said that you shouldn't think you have any right to disparage someone else unless you're willing to go their level with your own message. That's the only effective way to have your message equally heard and anything less than that is wasted effort and will not accomplish any good. It does incite argument and divisiveness which makes any kind of unity even harder to achieve Put up or shut up, nobody wants to hear whiners who will not do that!

....and honestly, if people never went on tv.. then there wouldn't be a world out there heckling us... THEY brought the negative attention upon us.... so basically.. those who bring attention to us are more responsible for the negative attention than anyone who sits back and quietly enjoys their diapers.....

Sarah, this is just wrong. You're blaming TV for making up people's minds for themselves. It may do that for the most stupid humans, but the vast majority are not that heavily influenced by what they see there, especially on the shows being discussed Nowhere in any of what is being discussed was much weight placed on the 'pedo thing'. It was in the minds of the uneducated long before this exposure and the only cure for that is education Perhaps you'd be happier to remain hidden and that's your right- but it's everyone elses right to make up their own mind about this and say what they wan.

The cat is out of the bag and cannot be put back in. There's no point in arguing about whether that is right or wrong, good or bad. It is done, so the only question worth discussing is "What next?" Since you can't undo what is done you can only counter it, and you can only counter it effectively at the same or a high level. Nothing else does any good.

Instead of this thread turning into another bash-fest let's discuss going forward. I'm sick of the bashing and if it happens in this thread I'm going to bash back with Mod action. Those wishing to bash can keep it on the similar threads already in a mess about this topic.

Most sincerely,

Bettypooh

[sarah_ab]

wow so voicing my opinion is a bash? and thanks for the threat... i appreacite that.

I didn't say they brought pedophilia thougths to the forefront.. actually i stated that it seemed most people dont' connect this with pedophilia until an ab/dl brings it up..

and really.. people don't base their opinions on waht they see on tv? really? so all those people who were screaming for zimmerman to be arrested and taht he was killer... they werent basing that opinion on what they saw on the news? Most people have not heard of abdl until they see a show... so yeah when people go on tv.. they do bring more attention to the abdl community.. so yes they DID bring the attention to themselves...

"Perhaps you'd be happier to remain hidden and that's your right- but it's everyone elses right to make up their own mind about this and say what they wan." from bettys post above..

taht is true and i never said people could not voice their opinons.. so lets not threaten to ban people for doing exactly what you are saying we have a right to do.. voice our opinoins.. I voiced my opinion.. you do not agree... thats fine.. but as you stated I have the right to make up my own mind and say what i want.

[BabyJune]

Infantilism is best kept a secret because the general public will never understand the concept of finding pleasure in "baby" things. Most people immediately jump to the opinion that it is a form of pedophilia--which we all know it is not. It's a "guilt by association" thing. EXAMPLE: Not everyone who wears a hoodie is a gang member, but hoodies are associated with gangs and crime. What people fail to realize--unless they have had AB/DL desires and experiences--is that infantilism almost always starts BEFORE puberty sets in. It only becomes a sexual pleasure after the fact.

[diaperpt]

Keeping it all a secret is fine - but there are other people in our lives. I'd tried to keep my diaper side private, but damn, my wife did ultimately find out. Some people on here have had great luck with their partner's acceptance but others have not. I'm in that category.

While I'm still struggling to gain some level of acceptance - and yes, now have developed a physical need for diapers - my wife is not likely to change her feelings about me wearing diapers and I'd certainly not think about bringing out my bottle or paci.

No, educating the public now will not help me. However, is there any possibility that by educating the public, some people will come to accept that wearing and using diapers and wanting to feel like a baby from time to time is not a disgusting, horrible thing?

Sarah, I have great respect for you in many ways; what would you suggest for a person in my situation? Is there any possibility that over the long haul abdl's could gain some level of acceptance in somewhat the same way that LGBT has gained a level of acceptance (no, not complete by any means)?

The 'early' flaming gays did a lot to put negative images in the public's eye - at first. But at least they put a real face on the issue. I was acquainted with such a guy and he disgusted me at the time. But I saw being gay not as some impersonal disgusting thing...haha...a personal disgusting thing.

Gradually as more gays came out and I realized that there were other people I knew who were gay and not so 'out there'.

Being outside the gay community myself I have no right to speak for them - and I won't try. I do, however, feel that those early flamers were brave in their actions and in the long run were the beginnings of overall acceptance, such as it is at this point.

Do you suppose that the abdl's who've been on tv or on the radio, have done anything toward educating the public about abdl's? Although they may have set a negative tone in the minds of a lot of viewers (listeners), have they not at least brought some sort of recognition that we are out there?

Sarah, if you wish to remain a closet abdl and can enjoy your abdl side with no one else knowing ever, that is great. I wonder, however, if recognition, awareness and gradually education won't benefit those who come along later and discover that they are abdl's.

Maybe I'm wrong - and AlliR as well. However, I'm still with a wife who finds abdl disgusting and 'abnormal' (the 'what is normal' argument holds no water with her). Yeah, I've put a human face on abdl for her and she still doesn't like it. But I'm the only one she knows about.

How many incontinent people here have noted that not only do they choose not to tell people of their condition (very reasonable, I think) but are afraid of others finding out accidentally for fear of their reactions?

Yes, I think to some extent the point that friends will accept is a valid one, but what of others that end up not being such good friends? What about those who think that it's only very old and infirm faceless people have to wear diapers - and at that make jokes about it?

Yes, maybe I'm wrong, but I applaud those who put themselves out there in the public eye, willing to be interviewed, etc. Perhaps some day those of us who are incontinent can be accepted in the same way as people with artificial limbs, or a cane, or eyeglasses for that matter. And people may still think it strange, but maybe some day they'll accept that for at least a slice of the population, there is some legitimate comfort and support gained in wearing diapers.

diaperpt

[sarah_ab]

diaperpt ... i am not ignorig you and would like to post a response but i am afraid to post my thoughts due to it being implied by a moderator that i am bashing and being threatened the a ban .... so i will no longer be expressing my opinion in this thread because i dont want to be banned for stating my own personal opinion or even worse answering the ops question .... but please know im not just ignoring you ....

[diaperpt]

I thought you might have over-reacted a tad, but perhaps you and Bettypooh have a history. I thought your post was a little strong, but was after all an opinion. I also thought, as it seems Bettypooh did, that you over emphasized AlliR's comment about pedophilia. I do not see it as a bash.

Bettypooh maybe jumped in a little too soon and too heavily on the anti-bashing statements. On the other hand, I was upset over the bashing that went on in the discussions about recent tv exposure. And now am I bashing the bashers - or perhaps you as an anti-basher?

Bettypooh, I have great respect for you also and while you should be taking an anti-bashing position, your post may have also stiffled comments on a question that does have big impact on all of us one way or another. I don't want to second guess too much on a position as mod which is so important on this site, but I think this is an interesting question and deserves some reasonably stated points of view.

Finally, I really would like to hear what Sarah has to say - Bettypooh, is that unreasonable? Is it not reasonable to express a regret - as Sarah stated her regret that people have put ABDL out into the public eye? Sure, it's out there and it can't be taken back, but can't someone feel it was a mistake? I happen to disagree, but simply stating an opinion to that effect is only fair in a discussion like this. And I didn't see in Sarah's post a refusal to move forward - her choice would be to move forward in silence within the general population.

So let's move on...but let's move on to the discussion proposed by AlliR. And if Sarah_ab doesn't feel she can answer my questions, perhaps someone else out there can.

[Diapered Jason]

Diaperpt, the situation with your wife is unfortunate. The what's normal card will never work, because it is so painfully obvious we are not normal. The best you will be able to manage is to get her to tolerate and accept it as a private thing, but not like it. In retrospect, this is really all I want from the public.

Also, I do not think Bettypooh was referring to anyone's post in particular as she was just giving everyone here a warning sort of like an important bulletin.

[AlliR]

Hi Fellow DD Members,

I would like to say first that I appreciate all of your views and comments.

Any item that comes into this website is bound to be controversial. My topic being no different in that regard.

My background was completely stated when I posted this question. The only thing I want to add is that the topic "Pediophile" was broached early and often when I was a member of DPF way back in the late 80's. Long before there was anyone who was exposing this fetish in a public medium there had to be this subject that was used on one or more persons who were discovered as A/B's. I personally have never been accused of being one but at the same time, my fetish is a very closely guarded private affair with a very small group of people who know this side of me. I too intend to keep my A/B side a private matter and have for many decades but admittedly it is troubling to see any persons who bash our fetish for what we like and do. I don't expect their rubber stamp approval. I just would like them to leave the information on the table without all the nasty stuff that comes with their ignorance of the subject.

Overall I started this topic because I felt that the most important thing about this website is to reciginize that we share this fetish as our common ground. As one fetish friend said to me (very accurately), there are many shades of gray on this subject. No doubt about that. But with even that in mind, if we cannot (at least) support each other on this (fetish) subject we are certainly doomed and condemned. Common courtesy and respect for our fellow members and fetish enthusiasts should be paramount when adding any information or content.

AlliR

[Bettypooh]

....Common courtesy and respect for our fellow members and fetish enthusiasts should be paramount when adding any information or content.

AlliR

This is what I meant in my previous post. Those who wish to comment can- including Sarah- but when this line is crossed it will be my turn to get hot under the collar. I wish I didn't feel it necessary but looking at several recent threads makes it clear that some people do not wish to respect others or have common courtesy. Requests to be nice didn't work, so if that's the way they want it, well that's the way they'll get it. I too want to know other people's thoughts on this subject, but ONLY if they can express them with courtesy an respect. That is all.

Bettypooh

[diaperpt]

The air feels a lot clearer now.

Let's hope others can chime in and state their views with a large dose of civility.

[Leilin]

Hm... this is a tricky question, and not one which I feel can be answered "yes" or "no."

Do I think that we should be on TV? Well most of you know my answer to that: No. Not really. I think the same about any other fetish. It is something which we should be sharing with those who are close to us and who it may be relevant to based on personal judgment. Not the world. I will not beat that dead horse further than that.

Do I think that we should 'hide'? No. Not really. It is something which we should be sharing with those who are close to us and who it may be relevant to based on personal judgment, not something which we should be afraid to share with those people and something that we should be afraid to share with our loved ones.

Do I think that we should be wearing our diapers overtly in public? No. Not really. It is something which should not be forced on the unwilling and diaper exhibition is abhorrent, selfish, creepy, and downright rude.

I know I went a bit beyond the question but the point of my statement is that we should be balanced, above all. It makes it easier for us to be, well, us, and for others to be understanding of that. Even for those of us stuck with the whole diaper thing, it's a great thing to balance your life between the changes required to adapt/deal with diapered life and the everyday events that make a full and flavored life.

That balance, of course, is also up to the individual. The further you are in one direction, the less you should expect others to sympathize with your decision, but it is still, above all things, your decision.

On the pedophilia topic, I think that with ABDL sites still out there that overtly or subtly support pedophilic elements, it's a valid concern, however it's good to observe ye olde maxim: "Methinks the baby doth protest too much." It's good to distance from those awful people, but it's also good to probably focus on the positive elements of what we are, because there ARE some great positive elements.

[fideliuscharm]

I've re-written 3 replies ... and then deleted them, then read leilin's response and have to say it prettymuch hit the nail on the head better than I ever could have

[nitrous]

My two cents is simple. I do not believe that abs,littles,dls,ect should go on national television where producers can edit their reactions and words. I believe doing youtube, podcast, and blogs are the best way to inform the general public about infantilism as well as keeping one's integrity.

[lilJester]

okay, I am for people finding out the reality of abdl instead of the ONLY press being BAD press as in guys posting on craigslist asking for someone to watch over their mentally ill cousin or relative with Cereberal Palsy or MS.....when it's really them, or guys forcing themselves on someone while they are in just a diaper.... you know...the uber creepers out there that give us ALL a bad name....

BUT......... I don't think it in any way really nees to be shoved in peoples faces. I jus think there has been too MUCH press i mean in teh past year there has been waht one big special, and three or four episodes on talk shows/obsession shows about us...... how about just a quick side note saying HEY here's an abdl, here's the actual reality of one..... the freaks you see in the paper are just that, freaks, and are no to be confused with the common abdl people who are actually quite decent.

[AlliR]

I would like to thank each and every one of the participants to this topic. Overall, it was a clear picture representing a very fair point of view from each and every one.

If I was to have any regrets at all about starting this, it would be that there are so many members here, I was hoping for more participation from those who didn't share a comment.

But that was their choice and that's what makes a democracy. I particularly found the comment of allowing those who speak publically to be able to do so without the editing that some producers provide which can produce sound bites that come out as inaccurate.

Again to all the members on this post........

I appreciate your points of view and your efforts.

Allir

[I M Soaked]

Here is how I see our fetish going. Yes people who go on the afore mentioned shows are most likely putting on airs, and are not realy members of our community. they are doing this to make us look bad.

The Jerry Springer show is the worst show to be outing yourself on. I watched an episode of Springer, where an individual(most likely an actor) came out on hands and knees, wearing a loosly pinned diaper and a sad looking bonnet. Making us look like sickos.

I myself would not publicly expose myself, like that. I prefer to wear loose fitting clothes, that do not show that I am wearing, when out in public. Besides, if I am confronted by a perfect stranger, who happens to catch a glimpse of waist band when my shirt rides up past my belt line, I just tell them that I need them for a medical condition and they leave it at that.

I, how ever, would not wear to work, regardless of need or want, because some people can be so ignorant as to make light of the fact that you are wearing protective under garments.

[annee]

I sure as hell would not want to be outed or go on TV. I have a good life with grand kids and friends who would never understand an ex husband who would love to hurt me any way he could. That said I never even know about this ABDL thing until my boyfriend came to trust me with his secret. I feel very special that he trusted me. The funny thing is that I have guys tell a me that I am not a good AB mommy because I am not into the sissy part. I enjoy treating him as a boy. He likes that as well. Funny how understanding can fall short.

[huntercd76]

It should be hidden from the public,they already have seen bad examples the lifestyle from Jerry Springer to National Geographic. Their opinions won't change so we would be better off hidden.

[BabyFergstar]

As for bashing the people who went on TV, I don't agree with it either. I'm not talking about whether you think it was a good idea in the first place, I'm talking about people bashing them without cause. For instance, I remember seeing a LOT of fat jokes about Stanley. REALLY people? You're upset because the AB on TV doesn't conform so society's idea of beauty perfection? SHAME on anybody who bashed Stanley in that regard. I also saw a lot of people on here bash Brett for being selfish - I maintain that our fetish, in and of itself, is somewhat selfish in the first place. Most AB's, myself included, are looking for a parental figure to feed us, change our diapers, treat us like babies...what kind of promise for satisfaction does that hold for those who agree to it? If you think Brett was being overly selfish fine, but it seems to me that one AB calling another selfish is like the pot calling the kettle black.

On the point of assuring people that the AB fetish is not about pedophile...well, who knows? I don't think anybody can be sure that people wouldn't think it if the AB didn't bring it up in the first place, but it does kind of seem fair to assume that some people might make that connection on their own. A few years ago, I was dating a girl whose family found out about my fetish, and her sister's first response was, "I'm not sure I want him around my children." So yeah, I think some people will tend to associate us with pedophiles without having the thought put there vocally by us. I understand your point, Sarah, but I do think it's a little naive to think that nobody thinks pedophile until I assure them I'm not.

Should AB's go on TV?...I would never do it, but hey, whatever floats your boat. I tell close friends once they've known me for a few years, and because of AB's going on TV, I don't have to explain the concept to them. In fact, some friends told me that when they first saw those shows they DID think "Freakshow!", but now that they know somebody personally who is into it, they understand that those "freakshows" are mostly normal people too with other facets of life than just diapers and baby treatment. Doesn't stop my close friends from ribbing me about it, but hey, whaddya gonna do? LOL I take it in stride and rib them about something...except I'm usually the "weirdest" one in the room, so I "lose"...LOL

I don't know, at the end of the day I won't bash anybody for doing something that I'm unwilling to do, and it seems to me that people who are into the same thing shouldn't bash somebody for making a public spectacle of themselves if they're not hurting to lying to anybody to get what enriches their lives.

*I do bash those guys who get caught lying about being disabled to get nurses to change them...that's just sad and pathetic...I think we can all agree to that.

[annee]

I know that even here people are quick to judge. I agree with the last post.

[Nat]

I think going on TV about it is risky. It can cost you your job o your friends. Also if you have children, it could effect them too. Other kids would tease them in school or reject them because they may have the wrong idea about AB/DLs. I can't put my son through that so I will never out myself on TV. If I could not show my face and have my voice be disguised, then sure I'd do it. Same as if I could go by a pen name.

I think TV shows about it should stop showing us in stereotypical ways. Like show some who do live normal lives and don't have cribs and all. Normal lives as in marriage or having a job, wearing normal clothes, having normal stuff. That way people will see AB/DLs are normal people and not all of them sleep in cribs or wear baby clothes or eat in high chairs or eat baby food. I am sure there be some who be willing to appear on TV for it.

I have seen people say online how sick we are and even someone had the nerve to tell me to my face that I am sick. I once saw someone say on Facebook that we should all be killed and then told the OP he is offended by Stanley's lifestyle. I blocked her. My ex boyfriend kept on connecting infantilism to pedophilia. He wouldn't stop and he saw it as me shoving it in his face when i tried to educate him and get him to understand it was not the same thing and no connection to it. One of the reasons why we are not together anymore. But he was a bigot too. I just avoid anyone who is bigoted about our life style. There is a difference between not liking it and being a bigot about it. I never thought this was connected to pedophilia. I never thought of myself as one for it.

[Jace Shepard]

no which is why i include it in the books that i working if it was out in the open more people might begin to accept it but some might still judge that they don't understand