How To Be Less Socially Awkward/Isolated

[Horndog]

What are ways that the AB/DL community, and its members, can be less socially awkward?

This thread was inspired by a post by babykeiff in this thread.

I have a few ideas that I wanted to share.

One of my favorite responses from people who are asked, "Are you gay?" is when they say, "Yes, but my sexuality doesn't define who I am. I'm a [insert profession, occupation, or position related to interest] that just so happens to be gay." If more AB/DL members in the community referred to themselves not as AB/DLs per se, but as ordinary people that just so happen to have this interest, it would gain more traction socially versus limiting our online presence to merely being AB/DLs. It may be obvious to you or me that we are everyday people gathered under this one unique umbrella, but it needs to be spelled out for people outside the realm of our understanding.

When it comes to religion (don't worry, this is not going to spiral into some controversial rant), each and every one of us holds a particular set of beliefs in the existence or non-existence of a omniscient, superior being. We can be open-minded, tolerant, and accept others for what they want to believe, which we should, but the problem is that many people are not like that. Instead of turning blue in the face from educating people on the virtues of our belief systems and the religions associated with it, we have to simply accept that people will not listen -- and only enlighten when they ask for it, or when the proper opportunity arises. In juxtaposition, with the AB/DL interest, we will not be able to convince the masses that we are simply unique, harmless, and do not infringe on anyone's personal space. Instead of having this hyper-focus on educating people and defending ourselves -- which, in many ways, brings more negative attention on us -- we should accept what's on the other side of the coin. From that acceptance, we lead by example.

I read a lot of social networking/bookmarking sites, and before I left DD, I was appalled by how this site was easily mocked by those social media outlets. Our site's content, that others thought was so ridiculous or obscene, was so easily accessible. I couldn't believe how big the target was behind our backs when it came to how exposed we were to scrutiny from the world wide web. I studied what people found objectionable. Sometimes, it was what others said on our forums. But for the most part, it was the photos. There are photos of people in wet diapers, dirty diapers, looking like babies, men dressed in frilly pink dresses, and miscellaneous displays of infantilism that look extremely awkward to the trained eye. Seeing those photos kickstarted the scrutiny, and the downward spiral of assumptions that led to the ye olde accusation, "Those AB/DL weirdos must be pedophiles."

Instead of making our content so accessible, we should privatize it, and place heavy emphasis on age 18+ for site registration. Have new members post x amount of posts and threads before they have access to the photos. Make the accessibility of photos something that people should work for, and that work should involve a firm commitment to the AB/DL idea. There will always be those who live to "troll" and exploit the system so they can run to the social networking sites to proudly proclaim their disgust for photos that they actually had to earn in order to achieve it. Then the question becomes, "If you're so disgusted by these people, why did you spend <x amount> posts to get there?" Most of the time, people won't make that logical leap and, instead, would make snap judgments based on first impressions. However, privatizing AB/DL sites like this would curb the "trolls," and reduce the amount of embarrassing, unnecessary exposure to the digital wasteland.

Again, those are just a few ideas. What are yours?

[langtab]

The idea of a socially acceptable fetish is a bit far fetched. No matter what we do we will always give someone the creeps. Its a fact. We have several things working against us like many perverts appearing in the media who have exposed themselves in a diaper to a child, adult, etc. This is a fetish and we cannot forget that.

[gah!ghost]

It might just be me but I like things that aren't socially acceptable. That's part of why I like them. I mean I don't want to be associated with pedophiles but I also don't mind being weird at all. I don't always want to be accepted. That makes life boring.

[lovelylittle]

I have one big tip that I think is the most obvious one people don't seem to get. Obviously, don't be the creeper who is going around flashing your diaper in public, etc.- but even deeper than that, just don't tell people! I suppose maybe it's more complicated if you feel the urge to be diapered 24/7, and maybe I shouldn't judge something I don't understand, because i've never had that urge... but why would you want your friends and family to know that you're an ABDL? Keep it between yourself and an intimate partner in a mature relationship that you can trust. If it's sexual for you, then that's pretty obvious, you wouldn't tell your friends you really want a midget to poop on your chest or you want to be spanked in time with the national anthem or whatever would you? Everyone knows that sometimes sex is weird, but they don't need to know the details, that's why it stays in the bedroom. If it's comfort, then still... right or wrong, you know and I know that the world thinks we're pretty freaky, so keep it to yourself and your partner in the privacy of your own home. If you need diapers for incontinence but you enjoy them also- nobody needs to know that you like it! I don't think it's anything to be ashamed of, it's not like it's hurting anyone, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be private.

I'm sorry if i'm ranting, or if I come off bitchy to those who may want to share their secret with people. But honestly, it's just something I really don't understand that I think contributes to the problem. There lots of other silly, kinky fetishes that everyone jokes about but doesn't tell anyone they secretly like until they're sleeping with them. If we could all do the same, people might come closer to seeing it as just that- a silly, kinky fetish. I think keeping our ABDL sides in the privacy of our own homes would go a long, long way to getting people to see it for what it is, as more fun and a little less creepy.

[gah!ghost]

Hear, hear. Totally agree. That's my general take as well. All people have different situations but I'd err more towards not telling anyone than telling people, not because you should hide it or be ashamed but simply because there's no point. No upside and it's not really fair to whoever you're telling in a lot of cases. That's something a lot of people never consider. Often telling a secret to someone is a selfish act on the secret teller's part.

[spark]

Personally, I feel comfortable with my desire and urging to wear a diaper. It is something that I do for satisfaction, but also something I do for comfort. I know this, because at times that I'm most stress out in my life, I tend to find the need to wear and for longer periods.

I'm also comfortable wearing a diaper when I'm out of the house, and it there is no longer any apprehension or hyper-awareness while I'm out in a diaper. However, I'm also not exactly displaying myself with a diaper. It is essentially my underwear, and as a 40 year-old man, I don't expose my underwear to just anybody (I don't think the kids would think it was cool, even if it was boxers). I do this, but also live my social life without any cross over. I've worn a diaper when I'm out with friends, but since I don't talk about it, show it off, or do anything to draw attention to it, I don't believe my friends know about. My brother does, but we don't talk about it.

Which brings me back to cultural acceptance, and people believing that DL's and AB's are not a bunch of freaks. In reading this forum, I've realized that a lot of well-rounded intelligent people share this desire, and we certainly are not all a bunch of freaks. However, I don't believe we exactly put our best foot forward. There are people who are sometimes less discreet, or behaving in an addictive manor that is 'freaky' and strange. I don't mean to judge people, but some of the post in this forum are ridiculous, and have no sense of reality. Some of them are fantasy (most), and some are people's inner desires without that conscience filter. To an outsider, it would be easy to assume that these are sick people- and make the obvious association with pedophilia.

I'm sure I've got some friends who would share that feeling (and I live in the SF Bay area, which is about as tolerant to alternative lifestyles as you'll ever get), and they certainly have no idea their 'normal' friend actually wants to wear a diaper, use one, and would love to somebody change his diaper. I guess I do a pretty good job hiding my 'weirdness'.

[spark]

The idea of a socially acceptable fetish is a bit far fetched. No matter what we do we will always give someone the creeps. Its a fact. We have several things working against us like many perverts appearing in the media who have exposed themselves in a diaper to a child, adult, etc. This is a fetish and we cannot forget that.

I think this is the truth, but I can also see some connection between that statement and how homosexuality was viewed in the past. One of the heroes of WWII (not that long ago) lost everything and was arrested because he was gay. It is taken a long time, but much more socially accepted in today's society.

Unfortunately this fetish/desire (it is really both) tends appeal to people who aren't emotionally stable and people with perverted ideas that infringe on other's rights (including unfortunately children). And it is not like we have a spokesman telling the media each time something weird happens "He's not one of us."

[Honu]

Yes, it would be great if content from this site wasn't posted on others with comments about how wierd we are. I agree with many of the points made. It doesn't define us, there are other definitions we own that are more significant and besides, this either belongs in the bedroom or the bathroom, not in public. It would also be great if it was no big deal to others that we might be changing in a public bathroom stall, discretely carring a diaper bag and looking a little big in the okole. What I'm not holding my breath for is the understanding that AB/DL is not illegal, immoral or involve children in any way. The usual solution to ignorance is education. That will be a huge challenge for us!

[Kari]

Organize a "Munch" in your area.

Nothing fancy & nominal to no cost to the organizer

"Lil' Jennie" has been doing one for Indiana for some time now.

Every 3rd Saturday monthly @ The Golden Corral, Bloomington, IN

Unfortunately I don't get to go very much since it's quite a drive.

He uses a small stuffed rabbit I think so you know how to find the group.

First time I went I wore a blue diaper pin on my jacket.

Walked up to Tom smiled and shook his hand and just said "AB/DL?"

http://www.liljennie.com/

[langtab]

What do we plan to gain from going public? Sure being gay at one point was not socially acceptable and it has been a struggle to make it more and more socially acceptable. They needed to be able to come out so that they could express their love for each other and not get socially shunned or abused. This lifestyle does not need to be public in my opinion and I cannot see what we will gain. When we go out and buy diapers or baby supplies it can be a little awkward but people are generally respectful of our wish to be discrete and they leave us alone. They do not leave us alone when we flash our sexual fetish in their faces and ask their opinion of us.

[Bettypooh]

We can't control what other people think. Essentially all we can do is to show them that we are all pretty much the same in different ways. Gays and Straights are expressing their sexual desires the way they want to. Transpeople and Non-Trans do the same thing, just being who they are. People who fly RC airplanes are the same as people who run Scale-model Trains. People who like chocolate and hate vanilla are the same as people who like vanilla and hate chocolate. This is the thing we should concentrate on and integrate into our own lives, showing it to the world in all it's inherent goodness. I like what I like, you like what you like, and even if we do not understand each other we can still agree that as long as we're not harming innocent people it really doesn't matter. There will always be people who cannot grasp this concept, so we should make it seen that they are the real problem we should be dealing with instead of bickering among ourselves over the things which matter far less if at all.

Bettypooh

[Eir]

Well for one we could use strong community policing. Track down site members who expose them selves in public. I am not talking about being diapered under jeans, but those who walk into store with giant diaper custome, binky, and bonnet to get attention. A need to know approach would be in order. Consider being ABDl classified, you do not let someone know unless they have a need to know. And hiding content from this site, like pictures, avatars, etcetra from the general public.

[spark]

What do we plan to gain from going public? Sure being gay at one point was not socially acceptable and it has been a struggle to make it more and more socially acceptable. They needed to be able to come out so that they could express their love for each other and not get socially shunned or abused. This lifestyle does not need to be public in my opinion and I cannot see what we will gain. When we go out and buy diapers or baby supplies it can be a little awkward but people are generally respectful of our wish to be discrete and they leave us alone. They do not leave us alone when we flash our sexual fetish in their faces and ask their opinion of us.

The connection the Gay Rights was just to make a point that social norms can and do change, but you have a point. This is significantly different than homosexuality, especially with regards to the sexuality. I think if it were socially acceptable, we would gain sense of freedom and a less of a fear of being discovered. I have kept this from everybody I know in public, in part because I don't want to explain this part of me. If friends are coming over, I keep my room shut, so they don't see my diapers, and generally keep my private life, private. I don't think it would be so bad if someone would see a package of Abenas and I could say, "I wear them at night, because I like to." If that happened today, I would probably use some sort of excuse (ie, I've been wetting my bed), and knowing my friends I would be pestered to go and see a doctor.

I'm not talking about walking around in just a diaper, or sucking on a pacifier while being pushed in a stroller, or anything that is a public display. In some ways, that is the equivalent of making out in public.

[Horndog]

1,000th post!

Nice comments.

Just read the replies so far. I wasn't talking about the fetish itself being more socially accepted. Instead, I was talking about how to make ourselves a less easy target. It's not about "going public" necessarily.

[spark]

1,000th post!

Nice comments.

Just read the replies so far. I wasn't talking about the fetish itself being more socially accepted. Instead, I was talking about how to make ourselves a less easy target. It's not about "going public" necessarily.

Well it almost goes hand in hand. It is hard for us not to be an easy target when the only people who are public with this are weird nutcases. And there isn't a policing organization (nor should there be), which says "You can't wear diapers any more, because you're a weird nut bag who makes all of us look bad. A lot of the ideas presented, not making pictures so easily accessible, monitoring of post, and others may help prevent stuff like the Something Awful website (which I find far more detestable than this sight. The guy comes off as a condescending douchebag), but unfortunately there will always be condescending douchebags who look for things to criticize-ignore them. Unfortunately, you also need to allow people who have a legitimate need to find a site like this. I'm sure there are still a lot of people out there who have this strange desire to put on diaper and use baby things that think there are the only people who think that way. This site allows them to go through the process without the self-loathing

[Horndog]

spark, on 11 November 2011 - 08:52 PM, said:

Well it almost goes hand in hand. It is hard for us not to be an easy target when the only people who are public with this are weird nutcases. And there isn't a policing organization (nor should there be), which says "You can't wear diapers any more, because you're a weird nut bag who makes all of us look bad. A lot of the ideas presented, not making pictures so easily accessible, monitoring of post, and others may help prevent stuff like the Something Awful website (which I find far more detestable than this sight. The guy comes off as a condescending douchebag), but unfortunately there will always be condescending douchebags who look for things to criticize-ignore them. Unfortunately, you also need to allow people who have a legitimate need to find a site like this. I'm sure there are still a lot of people out there who have this strange desire to put on diaper and use baby things that think there are the only people who think that way. This site allows them to go through the process without the self-loathing

I agree with most of what you're saying.

I don't think anyone here -- and I'm most certainly not -- is advocating a policing of this site or any AB/DL site, really. Policing, in my opinion, involves someone figuratively standing over you, wagging their finger and saying, "No, no, no! You can't do this! You can't do that!" That was something that I was more favorable of about a year ago, but my opinions evolved on the matter. At some point, there needs to be some sort of standard built into the community, though, that reduces amount of vulnerability that we have as a niche subculture. Too often do we inadvertently and easily serve our exploits to our critics on a silver platter.

Let me give you an example of what I'm talking about.

Last month, there was a young man (17-ish) who had a picture of himself in a wet diaper. His face could clearly be seen in the photo, and this photo was distributed around the Internet. The photo was spread around so much, it was crawled by Google and readily accessible on several sites. At first, the guy came out and revealed that he was, in fact, the subject of the photo and that he had "no problems" revealing his interests to the world. A week after coming to terms with his photo being spread around the Net like wildfire, he complained that his friends no longer talked to him, and his family kicked him out of the house. Nobody advised him that it wouldn't be a good idea to upload a photo like that so publicly. Nobody told him that doing something like that would not only incur criticism from those who live to criticize. It would not only put AB/DLs in the spotlight. It would also damage his personal reputation.

Now you can say, "Well, that's common sense." Unfortunately, not everyone uses common sense.

[spark]

I agree with most of what you're saying.

I don't think anyone here -- and I'm most certainly not -- is advocating a policing of this site or any AB/DL site, really. Policing, in my opinion, involves someone figuratively standing over you, wagging their finger and saying, "No, no, no! You can't do this! You can't do that!" That was something that I was more favorable of about a year ago, but my opinions evolved on the matter. At some point, there needs to be some sort of standard built into the community, though, that reduces amount of vulnerability that we have as a niche subculture. Too often do we inadvertently and easily serve our exploits to our critics on a silver platter.

Let me give you an example of what I'm talking about.

Last month, there was a young man (17-ish) who had a picture of himself in a wet diaper. His face could clearly be seen in the photo, and this photo was distributed around the Internet. The photo was spread around so much, it was crawled by Google and readily accessible on several sites. At first, the guy came out and revealed that he was, in fact, the subject of the photo and that he had "no problems" revealing his interests to the world. A week after coming to terms with his photo being spread around the Net like wildfire, he complained that his friends no longer talked to him, and his family kicked him out of the house. Nobody advised him that it wouldn't be a good idea to upload a photo like that so publicly. Nobody told him that doing something like that would not only incur criticism from those who live to criticize. It would not only put AB/DLs in the spotlight. It would also damage his personal reputation.

Now you can say, "Well, that's common sense." Unfortunately, not everyone uses common sense.

I think we are on the same page here, it's not the people who have 'common sense' who expose this to everybody and their grandmother, it is the people who are lacking maturity and understanding.

Unfortunately, anybody who has dealt with youth (between 16-23) you know there is maturing process that they go through that is painful to watch. I watch them go through the same stages that I went through, and I want to say "relax, it's normal." Of course, they know that in their case it is just so different, and we bite our tongue and say "ok, go learn for yourself." Whenever I deal with young people, I always want to "Don't do this, because I did, and this is what happened." (Not that I posted a picture of myself in front the entire world- I think I had more sense than that). They do, and sure enough the same thing happens.

How often have we seen the "I'm done with this" post, or the "I want to ruin my bladder" post. Mature people try to talk common sense into them, and others (like me) ignore hopeless causes, and move on.

I don't really have an answer to you question, and I'm not sure you do either. On one hand, we are all dealing with something that is publicly unacceptable, but on the other hand the people who could make this acceptable refuse to identified in public (I'm extremely guilty of this). I bet you and I, or some of the other people in this forum, could run into each other in public, and have absolutely no idea. We present ourselves in a socially appropriate manor, which means that don't make ourselves look out to be freaks. The freaks are the only ones who go out in public so that is all they see. A TV show about me would be boring.

What I'm saying is: if people actually saw us for what most of us really are, they would react the same way they do with other fetishes, rather than the immediate connection to pedophilia, and all the things that are actually disgusting and wrong. Unfortunately, the people who could do that aren't volunteering (I'm not), so I don't see a way to change the perception.

[spark]

Sorry to add on to my previous post, Horndog, but now that I read the original question, I've got a response- not an answer, but a response.

What you were saying is exactly the point that I've been trying to make. If I could say "I like diapers, but that doesn't define me", exactly like people can freely talk about sexual orientation. Unfortunately, I'm not going to risk any public reputation by admitting something associated with people who do things that wrong- and I'm from the Bay Area and the line between kinky and wrong is very loose here- essentially no kids. So we are at a Catch-22, because we won't expose ourselves to public, so all the know is the weirdos.

[Diapered Jason]

I do not understand the OPs question. How can it not define you? You are AB, DL, or a combination of the two. That is you. Stand tall.

Now on to the haters. These people are very similar to the people that are freaked out by anal sex, but the only reason they are so freaked out is due to preconceived notions or prejudice. I am willing to bet if they actually tried it once, quite a few of them would enjoy it thus adding a new element to their sex life. So what they are doing is actually self-defeating (You know, it is true that the anal cavity is 4 degrees Fahrenheit warmer than the vagina). I may have gone off on a tangent, but I see the same thing here to an extent. I can guarantee anyone who groups us in with pedophiles has not done their research, let alone actually tried it. You will notice this silly thing happens a lot in our stupid superstitious society.

So I think the best thing you can say is don't criticize it till you have tried it. Alright, I will admit it, I took a page from Dan Savages book.

[gah!ghost]

Yay Dan Savage. I generally agree with everything he has to say about sex and relationships.

[Horndog]

Dan Savage is right about some things, wrong about other things. I've read many of his columns, and he has this general assumption that everyone is as sexually flamboyant as he is -- and it's just that everyone else is hiding it, though he misinterpets people being considerate of others as "hiding."

I don't have an answer to my question either, true, but it's sure fun to talk about and debate.

Here's the thing: I'm not talking about changing how other people think of us. I can concede that people find us to be "socially unacceptable," but the question is: how can we get exploited less? Again, it's not about hiding who we are. It's about being smart, and not being an easy target. There is no easy answer to these questions.

[Diapered Jason]

Well, all I meant when I was quoting Dan Savage is people are so concerned about what other people would think of their own actions that they often disregard their own needs and desires. They chose not to understand because they are afraid other people would consider them to be weak, gay, impure, or whatever if they showed any kind of understanding or sympathy.

You mention we are socially unacceptable, but what if I was to tell you it is all an illusion. What I mean by that is while we have created an imaginary boundary on what is socially acceptable, remember that the boundary is always changing. For example, racism is no longer publicly acceptable (not saying it does not still happen), but it use to be okay to own African slaves. Just because it is publicly acceptable does not mean it is right and conversely just because it is publicly unacceptable does not mean it is wrong.

[spark]

Here's the thing: I'm not talking about changing how other people think of us. I can concede that people find us to be "socially unacceptable," but the question is: how can we get exploited less? Again, it's not about hiding who we are. It's about being smart, and not being an easy target. There is no easy answer to these questions.

I think that question is a little easier to handle (doesn't mean we don't come off looking like lunatics sometimes, because the actions of others). It goes to individual behaving in a way that doesn't allow you to be exploited. In part that means remaining discreet. It also behooves moderators from keeping track of trolls, and people and not feeding the trolls.

[gweg]

Well for one we could use strong community policing. Track down site members who expose them selves in public. I am not talking about being diapered under jeans, but those who walk into store with giant diaper custome, binky, and bonnet to get attention. A need to know approach would be in order. Consider being ABDl classified, you do not let someone know unless they have a need to know. And hiding content from this site, like pictures, avatars, etcetra from the general public.

So does this mean that the Timmys of the world wants to be found on the internet? or are you saying you think that it is ok to attack heidi lynn and others who lived their lives as they wanted and out in public their lives were the same as they lived and dressed at home?

So no matter what we think, Wanting to police the lives of the members and tracking down the Members isn't what this board is about by the way and I'm sure the Andrews of the world wouldn't want to be AB classified out in public either!

NO one here or in public has a right to attack others for their lifestyle and/or what they wear out in their world. You might try researching people like Heidi lynn who you just attacked in your post. The phoenix news times I believe had a few articles and Heidi and her exposure in the world helped not hurt our community. I hope you get my point.

[spark]

So does this mean that the Timmys of the world wants to be found on the internet? or are you saying you think that it is ok to attack heidi lynn and others who lived their lives as they wanted and out in public their lives were the same as they lived and dressed at home?

So no matter what we think, Wanting to police the lives of the members and tracking down the Members isn't what this board is about by the way and I'm sure the Andrews of the world wouldn't want to be AB classified out in public either!

NO one here or in public has a right to attack others for their lifestyle and/or what they wear out in their world. You might try researching people like Heidi lynn who you just attacked in your post. The phoenix news times I believe had a few articles and Heidi and her exposure in the world helped not hurt our community. I hope you get my point.

No offense, but the tone of this was a little harsh. while I disagree with the idea of policing (which is not possible anyway)- I don't think that was what Terryfighter was getting at.

You're right about Heidi, who presented herself in very public, but confident way. She did what she wanted, and didn't let public perceptions alter her lifestyle. But, I think she is exception rather than the rule. Most of us are not willing to be so public as Heidi, and wouldn't want to if we could. I think Heidi did do a pretty good job presenting herself as acceptable as possible, and anybody who got to know her understood why she lived the way she did. She sort of became a Phoenix public figure, sort of like the Lemon Guy (guy walking around handing out lemons), or other people who walk through out your town in unusual fashion. They're strange, but frequency creates acceptance.