Close To Incontinence With A Catheter

[Creepymouse]

The only liquid latex I've experimented with is fairly prone to peeling off things, did you use a latex cath with no special coatings on it? Then I would imagine a relatively secure seal to the cath, much like when balloon latex sticks to itself and eventually becomes indivisible.

Sorry to hear about the metal device. It seems like it would be ideal, though perhaps a bit too angular for comfort.

I find it interesting that there seem to have been a few (such as the new video posted by skatemonkey above) that have done this, and it doesn't seem like it's just some DIY kludge. Sure, he went to Amsterdam to get 'it done' but wth did they do, exactly? Where did he go? What does his stent look like?

EDIT - As far as a 'ball' on the 'out' end of the cath, why not plan it like the steel stent? If such a ball could be contrived on the OUTSIDE of the catheter, like a bead, then sealed in using your liquid latex idea, it would be less likely to migrate and would theoretically allow you to seal the fill port while letting the outlet drain through the center.

EDIT EDIT - Those who think they're perfectly sane are likely to be wrong. ^.^

[tspotters]

What kind/brand of liquid latex did you use?

OK, so here's an update on the situation - and there's been progress, though not of the type I was expecting.

Firstly, with the steel cath device I bought I've sort of given up on it - I tried two or three more times to get it in, but the shape just didn't seem to work for me. I got it quite a long way in, but I don't think it was far enough.

However, I've made rather more progress on the modified foley catheter people have been talking about for a while and right now I have one in, and I've been dribbling on and off for the last couple of hours without any problems.

So ... after pondering all these different issues about insertion, retrieval etc. here's what I did. If you want to try this yourself at home (!) you will need:

a foley catheter (I used a 16Fr); a syringe for putting water into the balloon; thread of your choice; forceps; a holepunch like the ones that are sold in DIY shops; liquid latex.

1. inject a small amount of water into the balloon - I used enough to make the diameter about 1 cm.

2. fit the forceps on the catheter about 1/2 to 2/3 of the way down - this is trial and error and depends a bit on your anatomy.

3. Cut off the outer end of the cath, about 1 inch below the forceps

4. Now that you can see the two capillaries in the cath, use the holepunch to make holes in main capillary (i.e. the one the urine drains out of). Do this above the forceps so that you'll know immediately if you've hit the water capillary by accident. There's trial and error here too - on one attempt I got a jet of water and that was the end of that device ...

5. Dip the severed end of the cath in some liquid latex and allow to dry - you need to do this several times in order to seal the end completely (see below) and to ensure that you cover the rough end of the cath completely. When the cath is drying, hang it severed end down so that the latex forms a 'blob' on the end. The forceps are still on at this point. This process of dipping and drying takes several hours so you need lots of patience.

6. When you've got a nice smooth end and it's completely dry, remove the forceps. If the later has sealed the end properly you won't have any leaks.

7. Tie some thread at the sealed end of the cath so that you can remove it later.

8. You might want to try to sterilise the cath now by using an antiseptic wipe.

9. You're ready to insert; plenty of an appropriate lube to hand.

10. Inserting is pretty much as normal, until you get the sealed end inside your penis; then you have to work it along from the outside. As I discovered before, the urethra is actually incredibly stretchy, so I had no problem at all getting the bulb inside - it's surprising but not a problem. Eventually the far end of the cath gets to the sphincter and you need more effort. I was a bit flummoxed here - I thought I felt resistance but there was no flow. On the verge of giving up, I pulled gently on the thread to ease things in the other direction and after a few seconds there was a flow.

It's been about two hours now and there are no problems so far. Things to consider:

- putting the water in the balloon doesn't sound good but I've found that a modest amount isn't a problem - the urethra accommdates it, and it's enough to stay in position - the lose thread I left 'hanging out' is moving neither backwards nor forwards so the cath is stable.

- don't make it too short - my first attempt didn't work because the cut down cath was about 5 inches long and I couldn't manipulate it from the outside far enough. 9 to 10 inches worked though; for me the end is still in my shaft and not past my balls.

- the thread is a little bit irritating but not too bad. I was worried about this before because I've tried the method described in other posts (i.e. insert the cath as normal, inflate, forceps immediately on the head of the penis, snip and use a cap of some sort - but I couldn't keep that in for more than about 20 mins. With the end of the cath 3 to 4 inches inside, there's no pain (and I guess no nerve endings). Although the thread is a bit irritating, that may subside as I get used to it; I was interested to read on a medical site that people with kidney stones can have a stent fitted which while it has to be inserted surgically, has a thread on the end and can be removed by the patient simply by pulling on the thread - so having thread attached like that is a recognised medical procedure.

- I hope the thread is on securely enough for me to remove the cath if/when I want to - this is a risk as it's the first time, but hopefully I won't need to make an embarrassing trip to A&E (and if the balloon will pass as easily out of the bladder as it did in - hopefully yes, as the muscles are designed to let things out and not the other way). It would be interesting to see if there are other ways of managing this. I wondered, for example, about attaching some sort of ball to the end of the cath nearest the outside would work - with liquid latex as strong as it is, it should be possible to get a good join - then you could manoeuvre the cath from behind the ball to get the cath out - but I'm not sure if the ball would also stop the flow of urine.

So ... it's been another interesting and so far successful day. There are some unanswered questions here (!) and please don't tell me I'm mad - I've thought a lot about this and am perfectly sane.

[nappyboymids]

Just standard stuff I bought in a local craft shop ...

[BabyboyCW]

Just found this video - how awesome! Is this from anyone here in this thread?

http://www.xtube.com/watch.php?v=n0iGD-S167-

[Loveable_guy]

OK so thats cool. Now we just have to get the construction information posted here so we can all have one.

Nice find babyboy.

[InD]

So I've given up on the stent idea. As Nappyboy mentioned the urethra sphincter is very stretchy, remarkably so. The opening at the penis however is not. This limits the size of the bump piece on the stent. The stent I constructed started with a 14fr catheter with a 9mm bump (about 24-26fr catheter). This was very hard to insert, but once in, it made it through the rest of the system pretty easily. What happens is over time the bump inside the bladder starts to naturally be pushed out, and 24fr apparently is not large enough to prevent this. I even tried a modified first bump that was smooth going at the front half of the bump, and flat on the backside, nope still came out.

So yeah... back to other ideas for me.

[nappyboymids]

Hey InD

So was that your video that was posted on xtube a few hours ago (are you 'inadiaper'?)? Interesting to know that the stent worked itself out. I sort of experienced the same thing myself - the modified cath I put in came out, but only as a result of a 2 hour ride of my motorbike yesterday; for the 48 hours before that it stayed in place without any problem. In a way this was quite a good thing to discover because I found a way (accidentally) of removing the cath without having to use the string - and it was the string that was causing all the irritation I experienced. So now I feel confident about being to insert the cath without the string.

How long did you manage before the stent came out? And how did you make the bumps/deal with the rough edges of the cath? (if that's you in the video)?

The ideal solution would be the Spanner stent that was mentioned pages back - just about 5 cm longer so that it bypasses both internal and external sphincters - but I don't suppose the company would make one of those as it defeats the object of their invention!

[InD]

nappyboy

Yep, that's my video. What is the distance between your "bumps"? I was only able to keep it in for a couple of hours before it started migrating out.

The bumps are simple, cut the cath where the second bump ends, this leaves a rounder protrusion.

[Loveable_guy]

InD so please tell us what you used to form the balloons on the cath?

[InD]

InD so please tell us what you used to form the balloons on the cath?

Go back to page 13 @ Posted 11 June 2012 - 04:36 PM . I posted in detail how I made the bumps complete with photo. With material details @ Posted 12 June 2012 - 12:36 PM.

[nappyboymids]

@InD - for some reason I can't see the photos in the posts you mention but perhaps that's just me.

As for my cath, it actually only has the one bulb, the one that sits in the bladder - for me that seems to hold it in place. This may be because the cath is actually pretty long - the end is only an inch or two from the end of my penis, and the draining holes only an inch from the end - but as the nerves all seem to be right at the head of the penis I still know when I'm peeing.

I've now reinserted the cath, without the string and it's much more comfortable - and I'm experiencing the incontinence I've always wanted; sometimes a vague dribble, sometimes something more, totally unpredictable, totally uncontrollable. I don't know how long it will work for - as I said before, a long ride on the bike moved it out, and I suspect it's something to do with a firm seat and riding position. Anyway, I'll let you know how I get on - for now I feel a pretty constant drip :-)

[InD]

Nappyboy, I meant the bumps on the steel, how far apart where they?

Img from page 13 http://www.dailydiapers.com/board/index.php?app=gallery&image=11492

[nappyboymids]

Oh sorry - I misunderstoond - 10 cm.

[nappyboymids]

And I've posted a video on xtube showing my latest insertion and result ...

http://www.xtube.com/watch.php?v=YRaeo-C467-

[diapertime42]

And I've posted a video on xtube showing my latest insertion and result ...

What's stopping it from migrating all the way into your bladder?

[nappyboymids]

I think just the normal outward pressure that stops a standard cath moving when it's in place - when I've put in a standard foley I always go two or three inches beyond the point when I start to leak and then let it find it's own natural position with the balloon against the internal sphincter. I guess the same principle applies here. And don't forget this cath is quite long - about 8 or 9 inches so it's in most of my urethra - that's a lot of cath to migrate!

[diapertime42]

do you have any way now to get it out, if you need to? (Other than another long bike ride.... )

[diapertime42]

Idea for a new topic.... "What I told the doctor at the E.R."

[InD]

Idea for a new topic.... "What I told the doctor at the E.R."

I was playing with a catheter, and this happened. Don't engage with this sort of play if you can't be honest with a health professional.

That's part of the reason I take the photos. Something goes wrong I can show them what I did

[nappyboymids]

@InD - Hope you didn't do any damage! Was this with your latest invention or sometime in the past?

@Diapertime42 - Since last writing, the cath came out by itself when I was having a shower. It's all part of the learning curve ... I'll try again next week. There have been no after effects so I'm happy to have another go.

I found two interesting things: firstly, at night I didn't wet very much and woke with a bladder that wasn't empty. I 'point down' when I sleep to avoid leaks and it's possible that this cut the flow off, which I wasn't expecting ... Secondly, it made jacking off more difficult (sensitive in a not so good way) although the orgasm itself was incredibly intense. So there's a paradox here - this has always been a very sexual thing for me but while I have the cath in the best option seems to be chastity!

[hg25baby]

Check out this new videos:

http://www.xtube.com/watch.php?v=YRaeo-C467-

http://www.xtube.com/watch.php?v=n0iGD-S167-

[Yuna]

Last night, before I made an account today, I did read over this thread and a few other catheter threads.

I normally cath myself overnight, every two or three days to keep my pee-pee hole 12f. I am not totally IC, but I have been interested in what it would feel like to be IC for a short period of time, like 12 or 24 hours. Using SWet's cath idea, I modified a 12f foley, 30cc, latex cath with a half inch long hole about 4 inches from the balloon, cutting off the end of the tube the pee comes out of at the Y to reduce weight pulling on my pee-pee hole and putting a piece of 16 gauge or so pure copper wire (about an inch long) to plug the new end of the pee-pee port to plug it as I remember from somewhere that bacteria don't like to grow on copper.

Insertion took me about 2 minutes, which is about the right speed for me to feel little discomfort. I was surprised that I didn't feel the section I had cut! I filled the balloon to 20cc even though I had not seen urine yet, but since a 12f is pretty snug in me and there was lube too, I gently, gently forced myself to pee a bit past the cath. This allowed my pee to begin flowing.

I let myself dribble into two towels to empty my bladder and then quickly diapered myself in a Bambino without getting too much on my bed. I was so happy that I could really feel the pee flow inside me, giving the sensation that I was both not peeing (from my sphincters) and peeing at the same time! I set my alarm clock for 4 hours and decided to try this for 12.

I do have a bedwetting alarm under my hello kitty comforter which I use as a bottom sheet and I knew it would go off if somehow I peed a LOT and made my diaper fail, but I also wanted to make sure I felt ok, kidneys and all, and I wanted to check my diaper to see how much longer I might be able to sleep without changing. I was fine at 6am so I set my alarm for 10am.

I awoke at 10am to a nice soggy and squishy diaper, but one which had come an inch from failing at my lower back. I got out of bed after a few minutes and immediatly I had the sensation of having to pee VERY badly. Oh so very badly. But I also felt like I was already peeing...with a full bladder!? The combined sensation was so powerful that it took me almost two minutes of standing still to stop my body from desperatly trying to pee out the cath balloon. It was several more minutes before I didn't feel totally desperate to pee as I emptied into my quickly failing diaper.

I changed myself into a TENA super while standing dripping some pee onto my Tinkerbell rug, but not too much *blush*

Then well I went back to this site and after a few hours made an account.

Until 3:30ish pm I stayed in that diaper until it began to leak from oversaturation when I the layed down on the floor and removed the cath easily. Actually it was much easier to remove the cath because it was wet already from dribbling pee. It was also more comfortable to wear a cath this way, for me at least. I think the flow of liquid between the cath and my sensitive inner tissue helped keep me from getting any irritation I might normally have if I wore one for this long. I think next week I will try wearing a cath like this for 24 hours of funny sensations and always wet diapers.

Thank you everyone to contributed to the modification of caths in this thread

[bondagenmore]

Ok, now I think this guy is full of crap. (the video guy, not you nappyboymids)

12mm = 36FR sized catheter

13MM = 39FR sized catheter

.... right. I mean there are a few select individuals who can get to 30fr, but they are very few and far between. I've been cath'ing for years and I can get up to 26FR with lots of stretching and such and that's only 8.6mm!! So yeah, I think these dimensions are off or the guy is lying to you.

I have corresponded with Austmo (the video guy) for a couple of years now. Although we've never met, he seems like a genuine guy and I have no reason to doubt him. I have a PA ring with a 13mm bead that I can work into my urethra... Not everyone's anatomy is the same.

I think the principle of the device is sound though - and pretty much the same idea as the beads idea that's running at the moment. So the question is, what is the right size for the balls? I've been cathing regularly for a couple of years now and can comfortably take an 18Fr. Any views anyone? I guess there's going to be variation from person to person in any case ...

The right size is the largest you can take. Literally! And maybe even then some. :-)

[sOME EXPLICIT DETAILS HERE - READ AT YOUR OWN RISK!]

....The dimensions of the thing don't seem to be right. Firstly the straight section seems to be too long and won't go around the bend in the urethra. I followed the video and inserted straight end first, so possibly this may work better working the other way around, but I haven't tried this yet. In order to help move the device along the urethra I inserted an 18fr foley cath after it to act as a 'pusher'. Well, obviously there was resistance because of the bend in the urethra, but what was really interesting was that the cath went straight past the bulb and could be inserted pretty much as normal. Which suggests that the urethra is far 'stretchier' than you might expect - so despite the 12mm bulbs of the original device sounding massive and unrealistic, perhaps they are necessary - in effect I had a 24fr bulb *and* an 18fr cath in the same place with no difficulty. The flexibility of the urethra implies that if the bulbs aren't so big the device could move either backwards or forwards unexpectedly....

....So ... what I wonder now is: [a] might the device work better inserted the other way (bent end first); do the dimensions need to be different - a shorter tube and larger bulbs; [c] can the removal be made less risky?

Any thoughts? It's been an interesting day!

When austmo had his made, he had done a lot of trial runs with modified catheters. The dimensions in terms of length and diameter of beads (also, placement and radius of any bends) are very personal to each individual. Trial and error is the best way to figure it out.

I've read about urethra play before, and I remember somewhere seeing that it is indeed quite stretchy. On the other hand, the skin and tissue of the meatus (the 'head') is quite tough and not easy to stretch, therefore limiting the size of insertables....

The urethral opening is indeed the most difficult to stretch... Once you're past that though, it's important to have beads large enough to minimize migration in or out of the bladder... and there is plenty of room for large beads on either side of the sphincter.

A side note... I recall austmo telling me that he had his stent made out of titanium, not stainless steel.

[Creepymouse]

Good info, though there's really no reason I'm aware of to make it from titanium, when steel is sufficient. Maybe lighter?

[wetman]

@ Creepymouse:

As far as I recall, Titanium is said to be non-allergenic whereas stainless steel might contain Nickel to make it stronger. This Nickel content can potentially trigger allergic reactions.