I Can'T Believe It Happened To Me

[dogpiss]

I've been working for the same firm just shy of 12 years. Things are going fine financially with the firm and they decide from higher up that they need to cut costs. End result, I end up being laid off with NO WARNING! I literally got called into the directors office got told to turn in my badge and keys and had security escort me out of the building. I was told my personal effects would be shipped to me within 8-10 weeks at my expense. I can't believe it! At 0930 I'm reading my e-mail and calling a customer on how I was going to take care of her before the end of the day and at 0945 I'm literally told by the security guard that if I leave the sidewalk I could be charged with trespassing!

They said at least half a dozen times there was nothing wrong I had done and that I wasn't being fired for performance reasons, but the decision was finial and my job no longer existed. I just think after 12 years of loyalty they could have done me better than that... at least classier. I got screwed out of my accumulated vacation (320 hours!), I had over 800 hours of unused sick time and nothing to show for it.

A hand full of unlucky bastards in our department are "interim" for one month while they train their replacements who already work in another division and are now going to do the job of two people.

I was expecting more out of the NGO/not-for-profit world but they are just as bad as any corporation.

Thanks for hearing my rant... would like to hear your horror stories about being laid off.

[hidden]

Sounds like you need to go back and tell them you want your stuff now. Not shipped next year on your penny. Or tell them to use the money they saved by letting you go to ship.

[D_Rainger]

I'm very sorry to hear about your experience. Something similar happened to me about 20 years ago. I was working as a machine tool operator and was basically told that the plant was shutting down, if I wanted a job I would have to relocate with my family to another town. As it turned out it was a good experience. I took six months off and drew unemployment while I did volunteer work and spent time with my young family. I bounced around through a couple of interim jobs after that and eventually was able to buy into a franchise that lasted me another seven years. After I sold that I went to work for a large warehouse and have been there almost 13 years. So if it is any consolation, my lay-off turned out to be a good thing.

There is no such thing as loyalty to employees any more. To most companies we are "human resources" to be used in any way management sees fit. This is a grave error on the part of corporations today and they will eventually pay for it.

-DR

[timmyc]

My sympathies way of the world these days. I can't believe you couldn't retrieve your own effects, even if they had security witness. Best of luck

[fideliuscharm]

you need to retain a lawyer that specializes in employment severance

[abrichiebc]

you need to retain a lawyer that specializes in employment severance

What he said. They should have handed you a cheque on your way out the door. March right back in there and get your personal belongings. They are yours and you have the right to them. How do you know if they will send everything?

[dogpiss]

Severance means little to nothing in a right to work state. They are sending a severance payment along with my belongings. If those don't show then we have a problem. There's a severance agreement if I want the package (6 weeks pay w/o benefits FWIW). I was told I could hire an "approved courier" to pack and retrieve my belongings but it would be on my dime and it would still be several weeks. If they UPS them to me, at least I get a free box even if I have to pay shipping. Their rationale is that they need to inspect everything to make sure I'm not stealing company property or have hidden intellectual property in anything. I don't know what all this paranoia is over. Gosh you'd think I was robbing banks in my off time.

I just think it's really trashy the way they did it. NGO/not-for-profits try to pass themselves of as something better but from what everyone else has told me this is even worse than the corporate world in terms of layoffs. At least in commercial there are usually rumblings of layoffs and they don't turn overtly hostile on you (threaten to have you arrested for trespassing!) in just 15 minutes.

[Mischa]

man dogpiss, that bites the big one. I'd liken it to them forcing you to drink canine urine almost (bad joke I know)

I'd contact the police department and see what recourse you have about retrieving your property with a police escort.

I've got a horror story of my own that cost me a job, a home, a good friendship, and a good deal of my sanity.....and a possible thread hijack.... sorry dogpiss, once it started flowing it didn't stop....they don't make finger diapers.

I had been working at Walmart here in town as a remodel temp with a stated hire-on chance of 90% stated by every manager and personnel associate we came in contact with. I made it onto the sales floor and was soon getting along fantastically with coworkers (except one which only got along with one other associate who was fired soon after coming on for attitude problems.), supervisors, and customers. How often do you hear the same two elderly ladies say they searched an entire big-box retailer for one employee because he gave them such personal service and was incredibly knowledgeable? I was one of them--three times these ladies came back and searched the store for me. When I kindly pointed out that there were several other associates as knowledgeable as myself, they said I was nicer than anyone else there. I'd help them as quickly as I could and return to my assigned duties promptly with a smile and a wave. The ethos we worked under was "Yes you are here for the remodel, but the Customer Comes First, ALWAYS!" I was also lauded and singled out for proper exemplary customer service by store and remodel supervisors alike.

Mind you my work wasn't quite as good as some of the others--I was pretty much forced to be a cartpusher on one of the hottest days of the year by a manager I'd never received an order from--with a knee already beginning to ache. I went to the front of the store to see the regular cartpusher with a bandaged hand, and thus stuck on greeter duty for the day as per company policy. Remodel being over for the day and our supervisors free we had become floaters. I began pulling carts in 4-6 at a time when the other remodel associate-turned-cartpusher was pulling in strings of 8-10 carts a run. My managers were aware of my Cerebral Palsy, as were they aware of my predisposition to dehydration, yet I still busted my ass that day and worked an extra hour in 80-plus degree weather until a regular cartpusher came on duty. I worked the final hour alone--the other remodeler took the standard 5PM punch. He was also in the breezeway when the Store Manager was there too, and he was promised a permanent position and forklift training, which he got.

Roughly a month later, I had spent two weeks inquiring about whether I would be hired on and every manager was passing the buck, by now they had reneged on their 90% guarantee and stated only 20% would be hired--which soon after dropped to only 8 off of a reduced crew of 24--each shift started with nearly that many, but by my last week there were 24 left, and they started dropping like flies. On my last day, a Wednesday, I went to the Co-Store Manager and asked her if she could please verify whether or not I was hired on. She brought me back into the office, checked next door in personnel, and came back to tell me not only was I not getting the job, but that my last day for a temp was THAT day and not Friday like I had figured. I felt so hurt and disgusted, I left at lunch after hearing from so many people that I was the one they let go. Remodel supervisors--who reported directly to Bentonville over the heads of all the Store Managers--had been telling me practically from the start that I would make a good Department Manager candidate in a year or so.

In the end all of the stragglers were let go except for one who a few of us were convinced was a crackhead--and the one nobody could stand. According to one of the Department Managers who liked working with me, he was fired two weeks after being made permanent.

That Friday, I got into a huge shouting match with my mother over hunting for a job versus cleaning up a mess she had made in the kitchen. I ended up with the choice of living like a prisoner in my own home and allowing myself to be abused and debased, or becoming homeless and having more freedom. I took the homeless shelter.

All this stress caused me to lose a good friendship I had made on here as my stress over whether I'd have a job or not clouded my mind and I wouldn't shut up when my then-friend asked, then told, then demanded me to stop. I then sealed the deal sometime later by telling her I didn't care if she became self-injurious. I still look back on that conversation with extreme amounts of regret and the pangs of wanting to make it right, even though I know my girlfriend wishes I would just leave sleeping dogs lie.

[matt p]

and these companies wonder why they cant get people to work for them and resort to sending jobs over seas where they work like slaves

[Marcuss]

Omg what a crappy way to dismiss someone. That is just rude...and they wonder why x employees come back and shoot places up. I am not a lawyer but i think they owe you your vacation time as well as the severance package. you earned it. I would get a lawyer like others said. They do have the right to go thru your stuff but they do not have to mail it to you at your expense. They can simply go thru it and have security bring it to you in the parking lot...tomorrow. At least talk to a lawyer on the phone and see if you have a case that should be free. If they truly valued your work they should have offered you a letter of recommendation when they kicked you out. That does not sound like a layoff it sounds like fired.

[rusty pins]

Most employment is "AT WILL", meaning unless youhave signed a contract stating they can not fire or lay you off, you are screwed. They can terminate your employment at any time for whatever reason they want.

Now, what I would do is call your former boss, explain that they have your personel property and you want it today. After all, you worked for that company for 12 years I assume in that office or building. Whats another 10 minutes there with security standing next to you while you gather up your personel property? If the boss refuses, you might want to tell them that your next call will be to the police to report your personal effects stolen by your former company. That is in effect what they are doing by keeping them for 8 to 10 weeks and charging you for sending them to you, if they even do!

[LuvsGurl]

Something smells rotten here, you need to contact a lawyer.

[happyindprs]

Forget the lawyer, this is life, today. As stated before most of us are at will employees. Lawyers are only helpful if you can prove discrimination or if they suddenly would shut down an entire plant without notice. I worked for my last employer ten years. It was the best place to work with the best people I ever worked for or with. I just finished building our dream house, and the future looked bright. I was on my way to the office after a few service calls and within an hour was unemployed. It isn't a loyalty thing it's just business. The bottom drops out and hard decisions need to be made and people lose their jobs. My Company and for that matter any company does not owe any of us a thing. We perform a job for a company and we are paid for our time. It's an even exchange until something like this happens. The first thing we do is blame the employer.

I agree losing a job after ten or more years, does stink but we all move on sooner or later. When I was let go, I was sitting in the owners office and it was gut wrenching for them to let me and a few others go. We worked together for so many years and now there was nothing more to be said. Sugar coating it didn't change the fact that I was no longer employed. I collected unemployment compensation and opened up my own business and moved on.

[diaperpt]

Not enough corporate profit. The top management wants (and oh, of course 'deserves') more pay, bigger bonuses. Stock holders want a bigger return. Profits up, jobs down. The rich get richer, and...oh well. Sorry to hear this happened to you. No cliche can make things better for you.

[wishing for diapers]

I was laid off (4 years ago) after 14 years, but I was treated better than that (though that company did yearly layoffs so they knew how to handle it humanly). What you got sucks.

I agree with others, outside of having you removed by the police (e.g. arrested) they shouldn't be able to keep you from your personal things like that (though they can and should have someone there to make sure you are only taking your things).

As far as your vacation, most places (law?) pay you for your vacation time if you are not terminated for cause since it is considered part of your (monetary) compensation.

As far as the severance goes, my state (right to work) requires that they give 3 months notices for lay offs if it is more than X (1000?) people or greater than 10% of the staff (whichever is greater). This usually manifests in you being paid for the time, but not working.

I agree with others, something sounds wrong here. Talk to a lawyer about the laws in your state and what your options (if any) you have about getting your stuff in a timely and non-charged way.

Good luck. Sorry this happened.

[Diapers4Me]

In my last job I was responsible for laying people off for 5-6 years in a row, it was agonizing, depressing and aged me big time. BUT, we did it right.....we gave people 6 weeks base pay, and 2 additional weeks per year of service, full cobra during that time also. When we told them, they were asked to go home for the rest of the week (we usually would do layoffs on a Wednesday) and come back to the office the following monday to collect their stuff. On the Monday, we would let them collect their stuff, say some goodbyes, and by that point, a goodbye lunch was usually organized.

In Illinois you had to pay employees their vacation (that they'd earned/accrued). I can't imagine this would differ much state to state. Also, charging you to send you your stuff sounds illegal too.

If you know that other people who got laid off got better packages, and you are in a protected class (over 45, minority, female etc), you probably have an easy case for a suit. Also, did you raise any concerns to mgmt recently about problems? If so, then you have a whistleblower suit as long as you can prove you raised the concerns (usually safety, pollution etc).

This isn't the worst I've heard. A company in Korea texted employees over the weekend that they'd been laid off!

I hated laying people off so much I found myself another job and resigned (I could have been the guy in "Up in the Air". Thus my move to NC.....

[Bettypooh]

Laws vary from place to place, but generally you have a legal claim to your property no matter the time or place, and they have no legal right to stop you from taking what belongs to you when they tell you to go. They do have the right to make sure that you're only taking your own stuff. They do not have the right to charge you for shipping when you could have taken it as you left. All I can say is that I would not have left without my belongings and would have made it clear that I would take and protect my property on the way out whether they liked it or not Had they tried to physically intervene (PLEASE do that) I would have them arrested for assault and anything else I could think of, including conspiracy (thus getting the boss too ) The moment they dismiss you they have given up the right to tell you what to do except for leaving the premises immediately.

Too late for that, but now is the time to start going online with your story. Post what they did on every place that their client base might look. Post it on your social network. Post it anywhere and everywhere that may cause them grief which allows such posts Get a lawyer to inform them of pending legal action should they not return your property ASAP and at no charge to you. Unless you signed something which allows it, they cannot refuse you your property and in all likelihood you can get a court order and police escort into their building to retrieve it during their normal hours, making them look the fool to everyone there and landing them in jail should they resist They are a$$holes so treat them accordingly- it's the golden rule

Bettypooh

PS:

Yes, I've had to fire people and it's no fun. I won't be someone else's "Hatchet Man"; if my boss wants them gone they can do their own 'dirty work' and tell them their self. If they work directly for me and I made the decision, I do what I must trying to be nice about it. BP

[wishing for diapers]

but now is the time to start going online with your story. Post what they did on every place that their client base might look. Post it on your social network. Post it anywhere and everywhere that may cause them grief which allows such posts

Betty, I like you, but this is horrible advice. While it might make you feel better and have some effect on your former employer's business, there is a good chance that potential future employers will see it too. No company is going to be interested in hiring someone that has a history of retaliating (regardless if it was justified or not). You can also open yourself to slander and liable lawsuits from them former employer too (even if you are right, they likely have more money to drag it out so you lose by default).

The best thing to do is talk to a lawyer if you think your rights have been violated (I think so in this case). Don't go around making trouble for your former employer outside of through legal means (if appropriate). And even down the road if someone asks about going to work for that employer, answer honestly but only with the facts and no personal feelings.

I know it's hard, but you have to deal with things like this unemotionally. Otherwise you will do something that you regret in the long run.

[pampers212]

I don't know much about labour laws in Lithuania, but in Canada you would be entitled to a very hefty severence package, including unpaid holiday time. I've actualy fought an ex employer over termination without cause, and she had to pay me severance.

Sorry to hear about your misfortune. Hoping everything turns around and you find gainful employment elsewere soon.

I was working at an insurance firm for a couple of years. I carried a lot of responsibility for commercial auto clients, as I looked after about 90% of them. I was specialy trained to do this, and the guy who trained me was moved to another dept. After a year of working my ass off and getting no pay or recognition for overtime (on salary) my boss gave me a shitty performance review and no raise, after getting drunk at the christmas party and joking that she would pay the bar tab with our raises. The firm was also spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on a lease of a brand new office building that we were supposed to move into on new years day. (Fucking halleluia!)

So a few weeks after new years, while we sat around in our old office wondering what the fuck was going on, I took a fedex package that contained critical documents for a vehicle registration I had done the previous day. I wasn't supposed to process the registration without it, but the dealership forgot to send the papers with the client, and my boss said to go ahead and do it with the promise that the dealership send the papers overnight. Well, a month later when my boss got the fedex charges, she was pissed at me for signing collect on the delivery! She actually wanted me to send it back and increase the risk that our firm would get in shit with the powers that be for not having supporting documentation! All for a $20 delivery charge!

Then a lady I was training got moved to a position in another dept that I wanted. Then the boss lady made an example of me in front of the entire office during a staff meeting about the delivery charge issue. I dropped of my resume at another firm the next day, and got a position similar to the one I wanted at the firm I was with. I gave my 2 weeks notice, and she sent me packing that day. When she dropped of my final cheque for the days I had already worked, I asked where my severance pay was. She said "you don't get severance, you quit." I said, yeah, in two weeks.

So yeah, I called labor relations, and they heard my story, and hears, and got all documents and copies of my resignation, and they told her she had to pay me severance. I got the cheque a couple weeks later.

[dogpiss]

The entire department got boned the same way I did pretty much. They managed to do some legal wrangling to get us cut as a financial hardship on the company which gave them a lot of extra leeway in what they could do. The lawyers are excellent scumbags at what they do, that's for sure! I'm too busy looking for a new job to look back now. I had a feeling my VERY modest raise one month ago had a catch. That was one of the things they used to justify the excessive expense! Everyone in the department got a mysterious raise (about 1.25%) and all of the sudden... As for returning my stuff they are allowed under the law to inspect it and return it within a "reasonable" amount of time to account for inspection. The state seem to think that "not more than 90 BUSINESS days" is reasonable (about 18 calendar weeks). Their "generous" severance offer is one week of paid COBRA benefits per year worked plus they would add a $20 supplement for the shipping of my belongings. I have to sign away any right to sue in return. So still totally the suck but better than nothing at all...

[Bettypooh]

Betty, I like you, but this is horrible advice. While it might make you feel better and have some effect on your former employer's business, there is a good chance that potential future employers will see it too. No company is going to be interested in hiring someone that has a history of retaliating (regardless if it was justified or not). You can also open yourself to slander and liable lawsuits from them former employer too (even if you are right, they likely have more money to drag it out so you lose by default).

The best thing to do is talk to a lawyer if you think your rights have been violated (I think so in this case). Don't go around making trouble for your former employer outside of through legal means (if appropriate). And even down the road if someone asks about going to work for that employer, answer honestly but only with the facts and no personal feelings.

I know it's hard, but you have to deal with things like this unemotionally. Otherwise you will do something that you regret in the long run.

I stand by my post You will continue to get run over as long as you let it happen, and the first step to being able to handle bigger things is to be able to handle your own situation Personally I wouldn't want to work for anyone who saw it as retaliation when it was the only time it happened among the several times I've been terminated (all but one lay-offs). If they are so worried that I might do it to them, then they are very likely to do something like this to me themselves so why would I want to work for them? It's always better to avoid the problems of life from the start rather than reliving them over and over If it truly happened there is no libel or slander. Sure, they have resources to make a court case draw out but if you stick to your guns you will eventually win. Furthermore if they publicized anything about the event or mentioned it to a potential future employer, then you get to sue them, and in many cases like this the courts have awarded huge settlements based on the 'poisoned well' concept

The bottom line is the same- these people are going to continue treating people this way until someone else stops them If such intestinal fortitude is lacking in you then do your own thing, but don't bash those of us who refuse to lay down and take it

Bettypooh

[wishing for diapers]

You will continue to get run over as long as you let it happen, and the first step to being able to handle bigger things is to be able to handle your own situation

I absolutely agree with your premise, just not your methods

Personally I wouldn't want to work for anyone who saw it as retaliation

Neither do I, but the reality is that the people you would work for (e.g. manager/director/vp/etc..) might be exactly the people/organization you want to work for, but they never see your resume because HR never passed it on to them. In the current climate where some positions are garnering hundreds to thousands of applicants, HR uses any excuses they can (valid or not) to whittle down the pool to something manageable.

It's always better to avoid the problems of life from the start rather than reliving them over and over

Absolutely. I've been burned in the past, so now there are specific things I look for and ask for when I'm looking for a new job. It tends to turn many employers off, but (like you) I'd rather not work for them (and I recognize I'm lucky enough (even now) to be able to cherry pick). The difference is that I would rather make it into the interview process to make that decision for myself rather than have an HR intern make it for me because of something I posted online.

I don't agree with it, but it's common knowledge at this point that companies vet possible employees by searching Google/Facebook/Myspace/etc.. and reject them for unrelated things they posted online (e.g. if the work schedule is Mon-Fri, what's it matter if someone posts about going out and getting trashed Friday or Saturday night?).

Even more annoyingly (from the hiring perspective), they do this to the extent that by the time they pass on resumes to the hiring managers they've managed to weed out any candidates that actually would fill the need. I actually had a case where we wrote a job description explicitly to someone's resume, yet we never got the resume from HR. When asked, all they would say was that it was rejected and the best we could figure was because of some old (5 years prior) posts he made about partying. We had to get our SVP involved to fight HR and let us hire him. In that case he had people on the inside willing to fight for him, what do you think happens for someone with no insider help?

If it truly happened there is no libel or slander. Sure, they have resources to make a court case draw out but if you stick to your guns you will eventually win.

The issue is that they have the lawyers to drag it out and the money to sustain them. If you need a job, then in all likelihood you don't which means you can't afford to see it through to the end (there are exceptions of course). This is what I mean by you losing by default. You might win the moral victory (and I am all about moral victories), but that won't put food on your table.

Furthermore if they publicized anything about the event or mentioned it to a potential future employer, then you get to sue them, and in many cases like this the courts have awarded huge settlements based on the 'poisoned well' concept

Absolutely, which is why no company (that has a clue) will do anything but confirm that you worked there from X to Y, had Z title and what your salary was. They won't even confirm why you left (e.g. layoff, fired, quit).

but don't bash those of us who refuse to lay down and take it

I'm not bashing you and and I'm not suggesting that you lay down and take it. I'm just saying that you shouldn't do anything that will make your life more difficult than it needs to be.

If you think your job is mistreating you, by all means don't take it and quit. If you think they are breaking the law in how they are treating you, then seek legal advice and sue them if possible. You always have the power to move elsewhere. I do recognize that is sometimes hard for people as it may mean relocation or changing your career path, but it can be done and you will likely be happier for it in the long run.

Just don't do anything about it (e.g. ranting about it online in a way that will show up in searches for your name/email/etc..)) that can bring legal troubles for you or make it more difficult to find your next job.

Life is too short and we work too many hours to be doing something we don't enjoy or work for a company we don't think appreciates us.

[aleyxsis]

Been laid off for over 20 months !! the whole factory not just me .They want less than 100 workers back out of 1200 .We as a union or a collective bargaining unit refuse ! .My comunity says we are greedy lazy and should be happy to work for 12 dollers an hour .But when we gave thousands of dollars to the community we heard no complaints ! .This was done thru 50 /50 draws toy drives etc !and they were more than happy to take our donations ! .Now that we are on hard times there is no reply !!! 2 thumbs down

[drynot]

I was laid off in the spring of '09 much the same way.....one minute I'm working away in the shop and the next I'm being escorted off the property by security. Fortunately I was able to gather my personal effects before they booted me out the door....

Times are defintely tough out there. I wish anyone out there looking for work the best of luck. Perhaps you could take this time to upgrade your skillset and make yourself more employable? It worked out very well for myself....

[rusty pins]

What I find interesting is my old company would send out e-mails stating how bad business is and we would get cut backs and benifits cut, then there would be a corporate e-mail sent out about how there was another 26% increase in quarterly profits! Companies lie (if anyone hasn't noticed) and they will say and do whatever they want to fit their current wants. By the way, how much profit would companies make if they didn'thave employees working to make them? Even the people at the top won't get any money if the people at the bottom doing the grudge work for minimum wage weren't there to do it! People at the top owe their income to the people below doing the actual work! How soon they forget!