Bullying

[Yvhuce]

I personally was bullied for a couple years while in elementary school. What ended it was me almost rendering the kid virtually unrecognizable. Fight back. Thats all I have to say.

Right on. Too many kids these days aren't taught that it's alright to actually stand up for themselves... No... Everything has to be sugar coated and life in general has to be softened for them, because coming face-to-face with the harsh realities of life could make them sad... While fighting really should be a last resort, it should be a viable option in order to defend one's self from people who're just going to keep harassing them if they don't fight back. Proper bully deterrence is the possibility of the bully getting the shit kicked out of them by their victims. The more people who can honestly stand up to them, the less power the bullies have and the less likely they are to really continue being a bully... After all, that's what bullies are in it for: the control over others.

I honestly don't recall the actual fight between me and the school bully in jr high. I remember him sucker-punching me as we were going out of class, and then me standing over him with him on the floor, crying. He left town for a few years afterward and came back our jr year of highschool. We actually managed to get along alright for those last 2 year of school. Far from being friends, but not actually having any lingering bad blood between us. And I wasn't bullied at all in the years following the incident. Of course, it probly helped that about 1/2 of the football team was made up of distant cousins and that another 1/4 were friends.

where were the supposed teachers and guidance counselors when this bullying was going on? Hundreds of thousands of dollars have been invested into the elementary schools to stop bullying, but it seems the minute these kids reach high school, no one cares anymore... No one person is to blame in this case.

Where were the girls parents to not see her depression deepen? where were the teachers, friends, guidance counselors to not notice her change in attitude etc..? someone doesn't just up and kill themself without there being warning signs.

as i said, there is no one person to blame in this instance, so many many people failed to see, or rather just chose not to see, what was happening.

The main problem is that even with such programs, most of the adults just look the other way. The perceive bullying to just be part of the nature of growing up. It's just something that the kids are supposed to work out on their own, as have generations before them... The problem with that comes from the fact that kids nowadays are also expected to live in a candy-coated world where nothing is supposed to be imposed upon them. You can't teach them to fight for themselves, because that would imply that the world isn't a Barney & Friends episode... So, they grow up weaker than the previous generations and lack the proper teachings to deal with bullies... Bullies don't respond to talking. They respond to a black eye or a broken or bloodied nose... So, adults often turn to turning a blind eye to the problem, in the hopes that it'll toughen the kids up. A fairly good examination of this dynamic was illustrated in the Ozzy & Millie webcomic, where the principal actually refused to do anything about the bully, to the parents and teachers who were concerned about it... Sadly, this isn't rally much of a dramatization of things.

[waynecook52]

Right on. Too many kids these days aren't taught that it's alright to actually stand up for themselves... No... Everything has to be sugar coated and life in general has to be softened for them, because coming face-to-face with the harsh realities of life could make them sad... While fighting really should be a last resort, it should be a viable option in order to defend one's self from people who're just going to keep harassing them if they don't fight back. Proper bully deterrence is the possibility of the bully getting the shit kicked out of them by their victims. The more people who can honestly stand up to them, the less power the bullies have and the less likely they are to really continue being a bully... After all, that's what bullies are in it for: the control over others.

I honestly don't recall the actual fight between me and the school bully in jr high. I remember him sucker-punching me as we were going out of class, and then me standing over him with him on the floor, crying. He left town for a few years afterward and came back our jr year of highschool. We actually managed to get along alright for those last 2 year of school. Far from being friends, but not actually having any lingering bad blood between us. And I wasn't bullied at all in the years following the incident. Of course, it probly helped that about 1/2 of the football team was made up of distant cousins and that another 1/4 were friends.

The main problem is that even with such programs, most of the adults just look the other way. The perceive bullying to just be part of the nature of growing up. It's just something that the kids are supposed to work out on their own, as have generations before them... The problem with that comes from the fact that kids nowadays are also expected to live in a candy-coated world where nothing is supposed to be imposed upon them. You can't teach them to fight for themselves, because that would imply that the world isn't a Barney & Friends episode... So, they grow up weaker than the previous generations and lack the proper teachings to deal with bullies... Bullies don't respond to talking. They respond to a black eye or a broken or bloodied nose... So, adults often turn to turning a blind eye to the problem, in the hopes that it'll toughen the kids up. A fairly good examination of this dynamic was illustrated in the Ozzy & Millie webcomic, where the principal actually refused to do anything about the bully, to the parents and teachers who were concerned about it... Sadly, this isn't rally much of a dramatization of things.

I have one ? for you and Toon.You and Toon say fight back.But when there are 3,4,or more kids there bulling you do you still expect the person to fight them all?Ansewer that one.

[Yvhuce]

If need be, yes. You can't just roll over because there are more of them... It doesn't matter if it's one person, or the entire football team... Or even the rest of the school. You must be willing to stand up for yourself. You can't give them the satisfaction of giving in to them...

[Snugglebug]

If need be, yes. You can't just roll over because there are more of them... It doesn't matter if it's one person, or the entire football team... Or even the rest of the school. You must be willing to stand up for yourself. You can't give them the satisfaction of giving in to them...

Again, not so easy for some as you seem to suggest. There can be a LOT in the way between someone being able to defend himself.

[curiositykilledthecat]

How so? By being different? By being unwilling or even unable to conform to the 'norm'?

No, however some kids are loud, obnoxious and stuck up and therefore other kids get sick of them and retaliate. Not every little kid is a sweetheart. I had moments where by my own social ignorance I deserved a good whooping, however the problems lie in the ritualistic or habitual torture of a student. Bullying is wrong, however just because someone cries wolf, it doesn't always mean there is one.

In the case of the Mass student, the school failed horribly and everyone of these kids are accountable however the suicidal student's parents are the most accountable. Parental fail much.

Edit: I have been ritualistically bullied by the same kids in school through a school year(s), it sucks and is horrible to go through. Suicide would have been a stupid decision on my part because I've had a few former bullies grovel at my feet asking for forgiveness. I hold nothing against them at this point in my life. I'm pretty sure many things have contributed to emotional well being(or lack there of at times) however you can to a degree control how much power you give someone over you.

[Yvhuce]

Again, not so easy for some as you seem to suggest. There can be a LOT in the way between someone being able to defend himself.

No, it's not easy. The easy way would be just rolling over and letting the bullies walk all over you. But, nothing worth doing is ever easy... Life is not easy, for most of us... But if you don't stand up to them, then you're just making things easier for the bullies...

[Snugglebug]

No, however some kids are loud, obnoxious and stuck up and therefore other kids get sick of them and retaliate. Not every little kid is a sweetheart. I had moments where by my own social ignorance I deserved a good whooping, however the problems lie in the ritualistic or habitual torture of a student. Bullying is wrong, however just because someone cries wolf, it doesn't always mean there is one.

In the case of the Mass student, the school failed horribly and everyone of these kids are accountable however the suicidal student's parents are the most accountable. Parental fail much.

Edit: I have been ritualistically bullied by the same kids in school through a school year(s), it sucks and is horrible to go through. Suicide would have been a stupid decision on my part because I've had a few former bullies grovel at my feet asking for forgiveness. I hold nothing against them at this point in my life. I'm pretty sure many things have contributed to emotional well being(or lack there of at times) however you can to a degree control how much power you give someone over you.

Yes, Silverice put it nicely, some of 'em bring it upon themselves by being assholes. However, in some cases, I think part of that is because the 'asshole' doesn't know how to behave appropriately, especially if they rarely receive the opportunity to interact normally. 'Course, some kids are just plain evil.

I don't know enough about the Mass student case to comment, but I do know that kids are often VERY good at hiding the true depths of their feelings from adults.

As for taking back power, or defending oneself, I'll keep saying it again: it can make all the rational sense in the world to a person, but trying to incorporate that as an emotional truth is a whole other ball game. Hell, I can remember the moment I truly stopped being a victim: I got bumped in a hallway and, instead of being overwhelmed by fear or shame, I was flooded with white hot rage. There was no rational decision in that; no conscious effort applied. Nothing that all the years of people telling me "You have to defend yourself," (and me being resentful of that) had anything to do with it. It was as if some mysterious outside force turned the emotional channel from 'fear' to 'rage' on a whim and that was that. Telling a kid "All you need to do is defend yourself," as if it should be the most natural thing the world for them to do, is only going to make that kid feel like more of a failure for being unable to do yet ANOTHER thing he should be able to do.

[rickibrat2]

it is different then i was a kid, i was bullied at school by a few kids and some times on the way home by a small group of kids

which pretty much stopped by 6 th grade guess it was hard for the one boy to go from being the leader in school just because he had a juvie record at that age to not being able to take the class baby that still wore diapers and they soon learned to leve my friends alone too

the best thing ever told me was they except you to act a certain way so if you act different it will mess them up for a few day

but then this old farmer taught me how to fight a different way in many ways he was an out cast too as WW2 was still in many minds

he had lots of land for different crops which was always a source of money

he tried to teach me many things and i wish i could bo ack and klearn what he had to teach as it passed with him the knife i watch hom make me before i went to viet nam served me well and never dulled

but bullies today follow you thogut text mmessaging on line web site and just many other ways

[curiositykilledthecat]

acting crazy always makes people back off.

[sdsddlr]

acting crazy always makes people back off.

When I was bullied, I used to growl and bark like a dog. My dog, specifically. There was some hitting/clawing/kicking/biting involved, too, but it did work.

[Yvhuce]

As for taking back power, or defending oneself, I'll keep saying it again: it can make all the rational sense in the world to a person, but trying to incorporate that as an emotional truth is a whole other ball game. Hell, I can remember the moment I truly stopped being a victim: I got bumped in a hallway and, instead of being overwhelmed by fear or shame, I was flooded with white hot rage. There was no rational decision in that; no conscious effort applied. Nothing that all the years of people telling me "You have to defend yourself," (and me being resentful of that) had anything to do with it. It was as if some mysterious outside force turned the emotional channel from 'fear' to 'rage' on a whim and that was that. Telling a kid "All you need to do is defend yourself," as if it should be the most natural thing the world for them to do, is only going to make that kid feel like more of a failure for being unable to do yet ANOTHER thing he should be able to do.

Absolutely. What I'm talking about is that they actually need to be taught how to defend themselves. Just telling someone that they need to do something won't do jack in most cases. That's just setting them up for failure. You need to make sure they know how to do what you want them to do. My parents and grandparents played rough with me, where I sometimes had to actually hurt them to get them to stop. This prepared me for having to deal with people roughly twice my size. I'm not saying that it needs to go quite that far. But proper education in self defense is a must.

[lilJester]

Okay. im tired of this...seriously. First off, everyone for someone reason has ignored the fact that bullying is NOT new. everyone gets outraged over a kid getting puched on a bus, like that have NEVER happened before? oh please. bullying is jsut a part of life it will NEVER go away. Go ahead, try, the more you try to keep it from happening, the more you will fail.

Now as far as these kids killing temselves over it, again yeah its happened before....lots. The only thing is oh yeah the media didnt blow it up and there were no laws about it to which i look at these laws and shake my head saying "has it really come down to that?" BULLYING IS A FACT OF LIFE. Everybody goes through bullying at some point and honestly if you dont get your ass kicked as a kid at elast once and learn how to stand up for yourself, then what kind of an adult will you be? A pushover? more than likely. The problem is NOT that kids are bign pushed around, not that they are killing themselves, no, its that the home is nonexistant. To me, this is how it should be played out but how i DOUBT it goes in the least.

Kid goes to school. Kid gets bullied. Kid goes home crying. PARENTS TAKE INTERST IN THEIR KIDS LIFE FOR A CHANGE AND TALK!!!!!! A solution is hopefully figured out. Either by building up the kids esteem, teaching them how to defend them self either verbally or sadly physically, or hey get the authorities? And i dont mean the cops. I mean the authorities that matter to a 12-16 year old. The school. Principles, teachers, administrators. The problem is that i doubt the parents talk to their kids. They are too self absorbed. And another idea for a helpful solution to this....... is BRING BACK THE PADDLE! The laws today have it so that a teacher technically cant even shake a students hand. Its crap. When i got in trouble i got detention. oh no. wah. Didnt really care. Now had they had the paddle, it would be a different story. Bring back the OLD ways of doing things. Throw this child abuse nonsense out the damn door and lock it tight. Spanking a kid is FINE....just dont break anything. There is a difference between spanking and discipline...... and actual abuse.

I am not goign to sit there and say kids do or dont bring it on themselves at times. but i will say if you have any ideal in your head of normal, then you need help. there is no such thing as normal just a general concensus of what is and what isnt acceptable in a "modern civilized society" and basically "normal" is nothing more than what the mas majority agrees with. Look at the death metal or just metal heads in general. THey dont look normal do they? We wear black band shirts, i wear chain, i have tattoos, piercings so on and its not concidered normal but i do everything else thats normal. Job, car etc etc etc. Who friggin cares?

and now to drive my rant off the edge of a cliff

[lilJester]

When I was bullied, I used to growl and bark like a dog. My dog, specifically. There was some hitting/clawing/kicking/biting involved, too, but it did work.

waht worked for me was lots of laughter. do ti right, its creepy as hell. that and self inflicted injuries. NOTHING MAJOR just smashing my own face in my locker. well theyd think its my face its jsut the forehead and yeah it takes a lil more punishment than people think plus lockers are just noise so that makes the effect a bit more disturbing. every body goes "man you crazy" i smile say thank you and go about myday undisturbed....well no more disturbed than i was to begin with bwahahaha

[Alexandra]

where were the supposed teachers and guidance counselors when this bullying was going on? Hundreds of thousands of dollars have been invested into the elementary schools to stop bullying, but it seems the minute these kids reach high school, no one cares anymore... No one person is to blame in this case.

Where were the girls parents to not see her depression deepen? where were the teachers, friends, guidance counselors to not notice her change in attitude etc..? someone doesn't just up and kill themself without there being warning signs.

as i said, there is no one person to blame in this instance, so many many people failed to see, or rather just chose not to see, what was happening.

I know first hand its very very possible to never see it coming no matter how close or observant you my be

[underwhere]

Where were the girls parents to not see her depression deepen? where were the teachers, friends, guidance counselors to not notice her change in attitude etc..? someone doesn't just up and kill themself without there being warning signs.

They were around, I am sure, and the usual response of "Just snap out of it! It's no big deal!" was, I'm quite sure, thrown about many times.

Most adults don't really understand the symptoms of depression or how serious it can be, or even for that matter what clinical depression is. Also, few would have been trained well enough to ask the appropriate questions in an appropriate manner about the reasons behind her behavior change, and even if they had, there is no guarantee that she would have trusted those adults enough to be truthful with them. When you get depressed, a typical mindset goes something like this: "Nobody can possibly help me, because nobody knows what I am really going through." This leads to additional isolation and ever greater depths of depression.

The real issue here is that words hurt, and unlike the old expressions, the scars really do go MUCH deeper than that which would be caused by sticks and stones.

Parents must teach their children from a very early age to respect other people, no matter who the other person is, unless their specific behavior is concerning. Even then, one might discover, upon further investigation, that there are reasons behind that concerning behavior.

If kids (and adults) are taught to respect others as much as they wish to be respected, I doubt situations like this, which will be repeated I am sure, would ever happen again.

[underwhere]

Just noticed the original date on this thread. There was another fairly recent bullying event here in Massachusetts, and I thought this thread was relating to that, but all of the same stuff still applies.

I think its sad that, as a society, we often become desensitized to this sort of stuff.

[ItchyTasty]

I was bullied all through primary school, the several secondary schools and even colleges I went to, mostly because I have aspergers syndrome and was poked fun at verbally, sexually, physically.

Had things like name calling, death threats,and worse. When I was in primary school a slightly older kid tried to strangle me as I appeared different to others( being I was diagnosed with aspergers syndrome).

I've had my food spat in by bullies at school.

Had my head pushed down the toilet and flushed at secondary and primary school. Luckily it wasn't held there or I would have been dead.

Had my fingers and finger nails trapped in door hinges both at primary and secondary school.

In one secondary school full of stupid chav types, after many of the nasty bullies ganged up on me after they found out I had a disabilty thanks to the fucking special needs teacher making it so obvious to everyone.

I got targeted by one of the bullies in a science lesson when disecting frogs ewwwwwwwwwwww, and when the teacher left the room. The bully put a scalpel to my throat and tried to stab me. Wasn't sure if he would or not.

Wasn't going to take any chances so grabbed it away by my hand, cutting my fingers in the process, a few of them badly.

Bully said he would put me in a coma or worse if I told anyone. So was shit scared, when the teacher came back in the room and saw the blood on my fingers I had to lie and say I slipped when cutting up a frog.

I really wish I had gone to the police over that cunt called mac chisholm(think his surname was spelt like that, but sounds like that). Was at a secondary school called Haresfoot Senior School in berkhamsted,hertfordshire.

Also there was cunt of a pe teacher(I think called mrs martin or mrs bowman, not sure was too long ago to remember everything) in primary school who did something horrific to me.

Though I still remember the school name: Christ Church School in hampstead, london.

She physically abused me which has traumatized me for life so that if I put my legs in the air over my hips on my back, I really freak out badly.

Basically she was making(forcing) all of us do backwards sommersaults in pe. As I kept falling side-ways not doing it properly. Instead of offering to help me properly, she forced my legs over my head when i was lying on my back and dropped me by my legs, lucky on a pe mat, although it winded me. I dread to think what would have happened if I fell the wrong way to the side like, probably would have broken my neck and or spine.

Was too young to speak up at the time or definatly would have done something about it.

When I left college, to this day I've only had internet bullying/trolls/flaming. Luckily no real life bullying anymore.

I must be extremelly emotionally/mentally strong after all of that(or maybe I just got a thick skin now and luckily I don't deal with physical and sexual bullying anymore), as some people commit suicide if they are weak minded from verbal bullying alone.

Sexual bullying I encounted was mostly at secondary and colleges I went to.

Like bullies touching/slapping my arse, both female, and male did that.

And stupidly I let really chavvy girls take advantage of me. As when at high school and college I would get flirted with and then touched in groin area to see if I would get aroused, have my arse pinched,etc

And during breaktime in school I would have the more aggressive very chavvy tom-boy like girls thinking it was funny to jump on me, to piss me off or get me horny.

And thought the girls fancied me, but I was wrong and as soon as I did the same back(mostly touching their arse) I got slapped and kicked in the balls.

[I M Soaked]

Try being a Military brat, that changes geographical locations,every three to four years. The bullies always go after the new kid, just to test their mettle. I found that if you stand up to them on their first attempt at bullying, they decide to leave you alone or become your friend.

I found that the worst place to be bullied, is in the work place. If you even try to stand up to them, it could jeopardise your job, that you like, or worse. I nearly lost my current job, over a couple of guys that like to push my buttons all day. Some times I laugh with them and they get tired of the game, because its no longer funny. Other times I get pissed and walk away, wanting to punch holes in the walls, when I would rather punch holes in their faces. And yet they continue to poke fun, even when the fun gets old.

Some day, they will poke fun at the wrong guy, at the wrong time, and they wil learn that its not so funny when they are on the recieving end of the bullying.

[KittenAB]

The drawback is that there are two methods for dealing with bullying .... and both are just wrong.

First, let's dismiss the worst of the sides, the one that thinks bullying is just "a part of growing up and we should leave it along." That is naive and does nothing beneficial at all. Bullying is not a natural part of growing up, and there are times when it's more common than others depending on the reasons for bullies behaving badly. If it was a natural part of growing up, then the fluctuations in occurrences would be only slight, but they are not. There is a serious spike in bullying right now.

Second argument, making laws to prevent bullying by restricting freedoms. This also includes the people who try to attribute cyber-bullying as some new phenomenon or want to censor the web based on it. Cyber-bullying is, in fact, a lesser bullying and only a sign of real world bullying, it is not exclusive and should be looked at as a tool for finding the real world bullies, censoring web content won't prevent it, it will just eliminate a valuable tool in finding the bullies. Same goes for restriction of any freedom in the argument, all you are doing is forcing the bullies to be quieter.

Bullies are people too, and that's what is often forgotten, but they are not innocent either so should be punished for their behavior. However, bullies are never the way they are just because they want to be. They are often bullied themselves, by abusive parents who think their children are just slaves or punching bags for their amusement. Other times they are oppressed by a social construct that has them believing there's something wrong with them, like being gay for example, so they lash out at others as a result of being unable to be themselves. The common link here is that all bullies are also being bullied by the people around them, either with the terrorist ideal of being different meaning they are bad or actual open abuse by those who are suppose to be caring for them. Really, we as a society needs to change to correct this problem, and it is a problem. The increased stress on society from economic ills and war often cause spikes in bullying as well, the spikes should not be this noticeable if it was in any way normal behavior for humans.

[Alexandra]

I really like this song because I think it points out the real problem, bullies are like mad dogs its just in their nature to attack people but the real people at fault are the people who stand by and do nothing like the old saying goes the only thing needed for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing

[lilJester]

I was never popular, not in a good way anyways. I was generally pushed around, shoved into lockers, got my ass handed to me from time to time, nearly had my hand broke because someone bigger than me thought it would be fun to kick my locker shut on my hand. Fun times fun times. But would I sit there and whine about it? Nope. Did I try to kill myself over it? nope. Do I have sympathy for those that felt that was their only way out (suicide) not in the least. The only sad thing is that they thought that was their only way out. It's hard to do, but not impossible to ignore bullies. Also, what I had found to be even easier than to ignore them, is join in the mocking of myself. In a sense, basically outsmarted them. What did they want? To tear me down for whatever reason and see me cry or mope around or whatever. What did I do? Laugh. Make a joke about my long hair, yeah it's funny, hahahaha I have long hair and I'm a guy hahahaha. I must be some sort of faggot wow what was going through my head when i said, nope don't want to spend 10 bucks at the barber and just let it grow. I dunno, I just didn't let it bother me.

Also, do you really think that bullies will ever stop? I honestly don't for the simple fact bullying has always been around, and will always be around unless we live in a world like that of the movie equilibrium where everyone is doped up and loses any and all emotion. There will always be that small group that for one reason or another has to tear others down to make themselves feel better, or make their own pain go away. There will always be bullies, it's one of those facts of life. I am just sick of the media acting like this is some sort of "NEW DILEMA" when it's been going on since man first came to be. Ask any of your parents if there were bullies when they went to school, ask your grandparents, if they are honest they will say "yeah there was a few". The only difference between then and now is the fact that the schools have been castrated of disciplinary action. Sure that didn't STOP bullying, but it DID make them pay for it. Now, if you bully a kid you just get what? In school suspension? Detention? Oh I know, out of school suspension or expulsion. To which, the bully honestly doesn't give a shit. Parents and schools just went soft, thus the kids got softer. that's my 2 cents. take it, leave it.

[Alexandra]

I'll say this liljester have you had someone close to you kill themselfs?

[lilJester]

Actually, yeah. Suicide runs in my family for one. And secondly a kid i went to high school with killed himself. None was related to bullying. Maybe, maybe my family should sue my uncles former job for making him depressed! OMG! YEAH!!!! wait wait maybe my friends family, should sue his ex! or also sue the friend that made a suicide pact with him then chickened out after he blew his brains all over the ground in the woods a mile and a half form my house! Wait, he already went to jail for that, the whole chicken out and walk away w/smoking gun in hand.

[Alexandra]

well then I suppose your entitled to your opinion all I know is that I will always feel sypathy for my cousin who killed herself but everyone veiws tradgety differntly so if you've experinced it and thats your honest opinion then ok

[lilJester]

Okay true it sucks that someone thinks that is their only way out, but it's their choice to make. Nobody elses. You can try to persuade them not to, but that's about it. With my family members there was no sign of anything being wrong. they just walked outside one day pulled out a gun and BAM. No reason, nothing leading up to it really. just said screw it and ended it. *shrugs* that's life. It's a very personal thing.

on a side note, remember folks do NOT take life too seriously, nobody gets out alive anyway.