Bullying

[waynecook52]

Im so glade that thay are going to prosecute those kids that bullyed that girl to the point where she killed her self.If thay start to do that more ofen and televise the trials,then maybe there would be less of it.Come on peps.lets hear some imput into this.Sorry peps should have stated that this is from Mass.Its about kids who tormented this girl every day for 6 months.And it dose not matter what it was about it should never have happened.Of the 9 kids 6 where over 16. Sorry my friends i should have said who this storey was about.For those of you that want to know just Google Phoebe Prince.Cause its all there.

[SilverIce]

You’ll need some more information before you can even remotely go into this issue. Also, prosecution of a bully wont change anything as statistically speaking that doesn’t even make much of a difference when it comes to deterrence .

Critical information truly and above all needed is the age of the kids.

From a personal perspective if they are under 16 during the activity then i believe prosecution is virtually meaningless and a waste of tax payers dollars and i would choose alternative methods.

[toon]

there are many different types of bullies. There is a guy I work with who is blind in one eye, deaf in one ear, has a bad stuttering problem. We dont like him and we make fun of him not for these reasons. We pick fun at him because he really does think he knows everything and he's better than everyone. Sometimes they bring it on themselves and sometimes the victim is completely innocent. I personally was bullied for a couple years while in elementary school. What ended it was me almost rendering the kid virtually unrecognizable. Fight back. Thats all I have to say.

[waynecook52]

You’ll need some more information before you can even remotely go into this issue. Also, prosecution of a bully wont change anything as statistically speaking that doesn’t even make much of a difference when it comes to deterrence .

Critical information truly and above all needed is the age of the kids.

From a personal perspective if they are under 16 during the activity then i believe prosecution is virtually meaningless and a waste of tax payers dollars and i would choose alternative methods.

Thing is thay DONT prosecute kids for bullying.Maybe if thay did start doing it all over the country it might make a differance.And what is your alternative method for those under 16?

[SilverIce]

They dont prosicute kids period because under a certain age period and it wont make a difference. i could type up a page summary of why this is the case and link up why the brain isnt fully formed at that age... and the fact that its more of a child services issue depending on the case... and theres also a thing called "Parenting". But sadly i today am suffering from a lack of sleep as i just did a large term paper yesterday and was up early. And now i need to fly out the door. All i can say is spend some time, do some of your own research as to why they dont prosecute children in your country and how they are unable to fully comprehend them selves. Then after that you can look at how deturrance from procecution changes nothing and finally you can also look up and find out that kids sent to institutions like jail are mentally cut off from society and generally hold even higher reciditism rates.

And dont quot the spelling of any of tis either its half asleep jargen. Anyways im off to bed, i dont mean to be an asshole, and i sure disagree with bullying but its somthing kids need to learn how to fight against and its somthing parents need to get off their ass and beat their kids more. (Why is all this the case? Well, simple, currantly the movement is due process up the ass for youths, a kid can swing around a machete making death threats in public and literally physically get caught by a police officer after repeat offending multiple times doing other various gang related shit... and still walk in less then six months. Dont like it? join the club... but as law enforcement... we can bust em and bust em but courts wont lock them up. <~ although thats legit crimes, not stupid bullying. So, i would worry about that stuff long before i worry about some emotional kid offing them selves on their own.

Call me shallow but thats how it is. :/

[sarah_ab]

where were the supposed teachers and guidance counselors when this bullying was going on? Hundreds of thousands of dollars have been invested into the elementary schools to stop bullying, but it seems the minute these kids reach high school, no one cares anymore... No one person is to blame in this case.

Where were the girls parents to not see her depression deepen? where were the teachers, friends, guidance counselors to not notice her change in attitude etc..? someone doesn't just up and kill themself without there being warning signs.

as i said, there is no one person to blame in this instance, so many many people failed to see, or rather just chose not to see, what was happening.

[Snugglebug]

where were the supposed teachers and guidance counselors when this bullying was going on? Hundreds of thousands of dollars have been invested into the elementary schools to stop bullying, but it seems the minute these kids reach high school, no one cares anymore... No one person is to blame in this case.

Where were the girls parents to not see her depression deepen? where were the teachers, friends, guidance counselors to not notice her change in attitude etc..? someone doesn't just up and kill themself without there being warning signs.

as i said, there is no one person to blame in this instance, so many many people failed to see, or rather just chose not to see, what was happening.

Kids are actually pretty notorious about hiding things from adults. And, let's face it, they don't come with an operating manual, either. In most situations, a classroom teacher has a poorer probability of spotting a serious problem as they only get a real opportunity to observe in the classroom... and his or her attention is going to be divided up between 30 or so other kids. Counsellors will only be able to work with the kids that get referred to them. And parents may simply just not know what to look for. It maybe apparent that there's something amiss, but why and how badly is something they may never know, especially when it's so easy to confuse with all the regular ups and downs of puberty. On top of that, all the relevant agencies may actually know about a problem, but have limited options for dealing with it.

I'm not familiar with the case in question, so I can't comment on it directly, but from what I've observed of my own history and that of others, bullying is a very complex and insidious problem with no easy solutions.

[waynecook52]

They dont prosicute kids period because under a certain age period and it wont make a difference. i could type up a page summary of why this is the case and link up why the brain isnt fully formed at that age... and the fact that its more of a child services issue depending on the case... and theres also a thing called "Parenting". But sadly i today am suffering from a lack of sleep as i just did a large term paper yesterday and was up early. And now i need to fly out the door. All i can say is spend some time, do some of your own research as to why they dont prosecute children in your country and how they are unable to fully comprehend them selves. Then after that you can look at how deturrance from procecution changes nothing and finally you can also look up and find out that kids sent to institutions like jail are mentally cut off from society and generally hold even higher reciditism rates.

And dont quot the spelling of any of tis either its half asleep jargen. Anyways im off to bed, i dont mean to be an asshole, and i sure disagree with bullying but its somthing kids need to learn how to fight against and its somthing parents need to get off their ass and beat their kids more. (Why is all this the case? Well, simple, currantly the movement is due process up the ass for youths, a kid can swing around a machete making death threats in public and literally physically get caught by a police officer after repeat offending multiple times doing other various gang related shit... and still walk in less then six months. Dont like it? join the club... but as law enforcement... we can bust em and bust em but courts wont lock them up. <~ although thats legit crimes, not stupid bullying. So, i would worry about that stuff long before i worry about some emotional kid offing them selves on their own.

Call me shallow but thats how it is. :/

Well i got news for you Ice here in Mass there going after these kids.Second,dont have to worry about me saying anything about spelling.

[sarah_ab]

as a former teacher... teachers know which kids are bullies, which kids are bullied, etc...etc... just because teachers are 'extremely busy' they still know, they still see. If you have a student every single day, for 50 minutes a day, you would have to be pretty disconnected not to notice changes in behavior.

I taught a smaller class in the special education room, but pulling lunch and recess duty allowed me to interact with the other students at the middle school, and even I knew who was the bullied, who were the bullies, etc...etc...

i'm not trying to make excuses for the behavior of the bulliers, or to blame the teachers etc... but it seems like they are just taking the easy way out here. and then they are going to implement a zero tolerance policy which does no good, and then they are going to have all these anti bullying programs.. just like everything else they are going to be reactive.. not PRO active....

[Snugglebug]

Fight back. Thats all I have to say.

And you don't think they wouldn't have already if they were capable of doing so? It's not as easy as that.

[Snugglebug]

as a former teacher... teachers know which kids are bullies, which kids are bullied, etc...etc... just because teachers are 'extremely busy' they still know, they still see. If you have a student every single day, for 50 minutes a day, you would have to be pretty disconnected not to notice changes in behavior.

That depends entirely on the environment you're teaching in, as well as the age range. Keep in mind the average highschooler's tendency to be overly-dramatic about situations we'd find trivial whilst keeping the serious stuff hidden away. Keep in mind also that a high school teacher may have regular contact for a term or a year, depending on subject and scheduling, but unless the teacher has continuous year-to-year contact (not likely in a highschool situation), it's going to be tough to get a good measure of baseline behaviour to judge from.

Also, yes, a teacher will likely find out who are more prone to being bullied and who's most likely doing it. Catching the bully at it, though, is an entirely different matter.

[toon]

And you don't think they wouldn't have already if they were capable of doing so? It's not as easy as that.

uh....sorry? lol

[Snugglebug]

By the way, is this the situation we're discussing?

[Snugglebug]

uh....sorry? lol

Very simply, if a bullying victim was actually capable of fighting back, he or she would do so. However, there can be a LOT keeping a victim from doing so.

[waynecook52]

They dont prosicute kids period because under a certain age period and it wont make a difference. i could type up a page summary of why this is the case and link up why the brain isnt fully formed at that age... and the fact that its more of a child services issue depending on the case... and theres also a thing called "Parenting". But sadly i today am suffering from a lack of sleep as i just did a large term paper yesterday and was up early. And now i need to fly out the door. All i can say is spend some time, do some of your own research as to why they dont prosecute children in your country and how they are unable to fully comprehend them selves. Then after that you can look at how deturrance from procecution changes nothing and finally you can also look up and find out that kids sent to institutions like jail are mentally cut off from society and generally hold even higher reciditism rates.

And dont quot the spelling of any of tis either its half asleep jargen. Anyways im off to bed, i dont mean to be an asshole, and i sure disagree with bullying but its somthing kids need to learn how to fight against and its somthing parents need to get off their ass and beat their kids more. (Why is all this the case? Well, simple, currantly the movement is due process up the ass for youths, a kid can swing around a machete making death threats in public and literally physically get caught by a police officer after repeat offending multiple times doing other various gang related shit... and still walk in less then six months. Dont like it? join the club... but as law enforcement... we can bust em and bust em but courts wont lock them up. <~ although thats legit crimes, not stupid bullying. So, i would worry about that stuff long before i worry about some emotional kid offing them selves on their own.

Call me shallow but thats how it is. :/

well Ice from your last two sentences it sounds to me like you where a bully your self.By saying what you said in those last two sentences it shows just how cold hearted you are.

[curiositykilledthecat]

there are many different types of bullies. There is a guy I work with who is blind in one eye, deaf in one ear, has a bad stuttering problem. We dont like him and we make fun of him not for these reasons. We pick fun at him because he really does think he knows everything and he's better than everyone. Sometimes they bring it on themselves and sometimes the victim is completely innocent. I personally was bullied for a couple years while in elementary school. What ended it was me almost rendering the kid virtually unrecognizable. Fight back. Thats all I have to say.

I was bullied constantly as a kid, I found the key to getting around them was to not react and make them fear you. I "got" why columbine happened. I didn't agree with the two psychopaths ever doing that, however, I've been down that road before, I get why kids get to the point where they want to murder the sons of bitches who ritualistically harass them every day. I chose a different route to handle my anger and I am glad I did. Years later, pretty much every bully apologized to me. I think bullying is wrong, but if your a parent and can't figure out your kid is distressed then you should be prosecuted more so than the bullies.

As for this current situation, I don't know enough to take a stance, as some kids do bring it upon themselves.

[SilverIce]

well Ice from your last two sentences it sounds to me like you where a bully your self.By saying what you said in those last two sentences it shows just how cold hearted you are.

Now im the bully? Right, i spent my entire educational career to be benefitial towards law enforcement, volunteering in the communities i have lived in, and the benefit of society and helping others. This is all of course because im a bully and you should come light a bag of shit on my pourch.

I'm not even going to bother recoginizing this.

Well i lied i will say one thing. The last statements were fact... those kids with the machete and that refrence was real. They got out in two weeks and got arrested again with involvement to a double homicide shooting.

[waynecook52]

Now im the bully? Right, i spent my entire educational career to be benefitial towards law enforcement, volunteering in the communities i have lived in, and the benefit of society and helping others. This is all of course because im a bully and you should come light a bag of shit on my pourch.

I'm not even going to bother recoginizing this.

Well i lied i will say one thing. The last statements were fact... those kids with the machete and that refrence was real. They got out in two weeks and got arrested again with involvement to a double homicide shooting.

Well maybe im wrong calling you a bully in that i apolagise.Well you more then likely have never been bullyed.It just eirks me so much when i see someone who is bullyed to a point of killing them selfs.If you have never been bullyed you have no idear what its like.And i dont think there is a person here who has been bullyed that would not agree with me as to you not knowing what its like if you have never been bullyed.And i do say Silverice that im sorry if i was wrong with my choice of words.

[Snugglebug]

Dont like it? join the club... but as law enforcement... we can bust em and bust em but courts wont lock them up. <~ although thats legit crimes, not stupid bullying. So, i would worry about that stuff long before i worry about some emotional kid offing them selves on their own.

Call me shallow but thats how it is. :/

Well, I can see why Wayne might express a poor opinion of you. From the last two sentences, one might likely get the impression that you believe bullying to be an insignificant issue compared to what you would deem 'real crime'. Yet if you look at the overall impact of bullying, you'll see that the issue VASTLY outweighs 'real crimes', such as violence and drug abuse, in terms of scope. In fact, much of the latter has its ROOTS in bullying behavour: drug use to help cope with bullying, joining gangs to escape/avenge bullying, etc. Bullying is insidious and FAR more pervasive than ANY of the 'real crimes'. It is ongoing psychological torture - emotional and physical abuse - that goes on for years. Why is that not a 'real crime'?

[Snugglebug]

As for this current situation, I don't know enough to take a stance, as some kids do bring it upon themselves.

How so? By being different? By being unwilling or even unable to conform to the 'norm'?

[waynecook52]

Well, I can see why Wayne might express a poor opinion of you. From the last two sentences, one might likely get the impression that you believe bullying to be an insignificant issue compared to what you would deem 'real crime'. Yet if you look at the overall impact of bullying, you'll see that the issue VASTLY outweighs 'real crimes', such as violence and drug abuse, in terms of scope. In fact, much of the latter has its ROOTS in bullying behavour: drug use to help cope with bullying, joining gangs to escape/avenge bullying, etc. Bullying is insidious and FAR more pervasive than ANY of the 'real crimes'. It is ongoing psychological torture - emotional and physical abuse - that goes on for years. Why is that not a 'real crime'?

Thank you so much.Because what you said is just about what i wanted to say.Im not as good at saying in print as what you have said here.So i thank you again for saying what i wanted to say.

[Dougie]

Thing is thay DONT prosecute kids for bullying.Maybe if thay did start doing it all over the country it might make a differance.And what is your alternative method for those under 16?

Maybe they should make parents responsible for PARENTING.

Just a thought.

[Snugglebug]

Maybe they should make parents responsible for PARENTING.

Just a thought.

It's not that simple. Whilst, granted, bad parenting CAN have a role in creating a bullying situation, it's far from the ONLY thing. Social background, peer pressure, school culture and individual wellness (physical and mental) can all play a role. There is NO simple solution, no magic bullet, to deal with bullying. It's going to take a concentrated effort by parents, teachers, administration, law enforcement, and the kids themselves to bring this problem under control.

[SilverIce]

How so? By being different? By being unwilling or even unable to conform to the 'norm'?

I think hes trying to say some kids or are "bullied" are assholes too. xD

Anyways me and wayne spoke in chat and sorted things out so its all good now so no worries!

[Snugglebug]

I think hes trying to say some kids or are "bullied" are assholes too. xD

Anyways me and wayne spoke in chat and sorted things out so its all good now so no worries!

Ah, so you two kissed and made up, then? Excellent!

As for assholes, if that's what he was saying then, yeah, I can agree with that. It's actually really interesting that in some situations, the bully can become the bullied, something hinted at in NFB's 'Bully Dance'. (I really, really wish there was a decent Youtube of this video out there, but the only copy I can find has horribly miscued sound.) Again, this serves to reinforce that bullying is a VERY complex problem.

I often wonder just how many people here have been affected by bullying in one fashion or another.