The Truth

[Sleepy]

Truth #1 Female ABDL's do not always seek other ABDL's for several reasons:

-They may not want to be a mommy because they want to be the baby!

-Diapers are not the center of a relationship they are a part of it.

-You overindulge.

Truth #2 Coming out.

-There is no reason to tell your parents that you like to wear diapers or dress like a baby,your parents do

not need to know because:

A-They will have to deal with the anguish that they did somthing wrong somwhere along the lines.

B-It IS or CAN be misunderstood as a sexual practice and bedroom business stays in the bedroom.

C-They are one of the most influential people in your life.

-Telling your partner:Telling your partner can make or break a relationship:

A-Hiding this can be an unnecissary burden on you and your partner because stress radiates in many forms.

B-Represent yourself with taste not as a sexual deviant.

Truth #3 "Normal" This lifestyle is not normal because:

-Not everyone does it.

-It is not socially acceptable.

Truth #4 Other people do not want to be a part of your games:

-People don't want to clean up if you make a mess somewhere.

-Nurses,doctors,and other professionals should not be subject to your desires unless it is part of the

procedure or therapy.

There will be more later.

[elgoto]

you are completey right

[ryan87]

Yep

[Vic]

Gotta weigh in here. Yes, you should definately be honest and upfront to any woman you are getting into a relationship with . Not doing this is misleading, and will eventually cause a lot of grief (unless you have a very supportive SO).

True most girls here are NOT looking to be someones MOMMY, thank you, they have their OWN interests and lives to lead. Most of them are sick and tired of being hounded by HNG's on these and other sites anyway.

If you mess yourself you'd better clean it up yourself, as no professional will take kindly to being conned into any perverse reason you may have for getting them to change you. They have enough work to do, they don't need your shit.

If you want to be babied by a mommy or nanny there are professional's that advertise here, I'm sure they'd like the business. That is the only avenue I could think of where you could get that need taken care of in a ligitimate non-manipulative way.

As far as telling the parental units, this is usually not a good idea. In my case though (even though it wasn't a great outcome) I didn't have much choice. I had a trainwreck of a childhood, where all of the kids grew up having PTSD, cause it was like growing up in a war zone. One thing you NEVER did was to air ANY family business outside of the home, even if it was something nobody wanted to know and couldn't wait to sweep back under the carpet.

It was also 1975, there was no DPF even, and I had no idea that there was even anybody remotely like me in existence. I was taught to turn to authority when you had questions (my father being the ultimate authority), so with nowhere else to go I went and confided in him. Wasn't the best idea I'd ever had though.

He didn't have any answers for me and it wasn't something he felt was right and proper for a man, so he sent me to a shrink. I have no idea why he chose that particular shrink, but he picked a dandy. This clown's great idea was to tell a 16 year old kid to go out and do drugs, he even prescibed drugs like he was doling out candy. Then he went so far as to tell my folks they should allow me to smoke pot and drink in their home.

I only went to that guy for a year, as I didn't think he was helping anything, and my dad stopped making me go. The only good thing that came out of it was that I was able to take girls up to my room any time I wanted (as long as I wasn't doing any of that diaper stuff, cause that's just not manly!).

So for the most part I can agree that you shouldn't tell family, unless they want to know and ask you. I don't see how guys keep getting caught by their parents though, I kept it hidden from my entire family (5 hell raising kids and a snoopy mom) for 16 years. Maybe kids these days don't have the imagination we did when it comes to hiding things from the folks.

If my folks ever found something that somebody was hiding it usually meant that we were all going to pay for it (cause the one who did it would never cop to it). Funny how much trouble 4 boys and 1 girl can get into.

But seriously, if you are caught out, and need to explain yourself to the family then do so the best way you know how so that it doesn't creep them out, and that it's in no way THEIR FAULT. That's important for them to know.

Just my two cents.

Peace,

Vic

[steal_viper]

very true...

[sarah_ab]

One suggestion... if you are looking for a mommy or daddy or baby or any sort of 'playmate' both in the sexual and nonsexual meaning, check out the diapermates personal ad site, just click on personal ads under the chat room and board link on the blue menu bar <<<<< to the left... also, there are other diaper and ab/dl related personal sites out there. As its a personal site, many people on there are looking. Just one piece of advice, actually read the persons ad before you respond simply because they are of the gender you seek. And when you respond, perhaps reference something in their ad to show them you truely did read it, and are actually interested in what they have to say. It helps a lot, whether you are male or female.

[babykeiff]

Truth #1 Female ABDL's do not always seek other ABDL's for several reasons:

-They may not want to be a mommy because they want to be the baby!

-Diapers are not the center of a relationship they are a part of it.

-You overindulge.

...

For all you have said here, there is also those female ABDLs who will not seek another for other reasons, which some are

- they may not know exactly what they want

- they may not know how to, without getting HNGs etc

- they may want something that they feel uncomfortable with themselves. Accepting oneself as a AB/DL etc is extremly difficult for some people.

Truth #2 Coming out.

-There is no reason to tell your parents that you like to wear diapers or dress like a baby,your parents do

not need to know because:

A-They will have to deal with the anguish that they did somthing wrong somwhere along the lines.

B-It IS or CAN be misunderstood as a sexual practice and bedroom business stays in the bedroom.

C-They are one of the most influential people in your life.

-Telling your partner:Telling your partner can make or break a relationship:

A-Hiding this can be an unnecissary burden on you and your partner because stress radiates in many forms.

B-Represent yourself with taste not as a sexual deviant.

...

Since you mentioned the truth, I think that you should be aware of what it is. It is easier, for this example to define what a lie is, and use it as the direct oppisite of the truth.

source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie

"A lie is a type of deception in the form of an untruthful statement with the intention to deceive, often with the further intention to maintain a secret or reputation, or to avoid punishment. To lie is to state something one believes is false with the intention that it be taken for the truth by someone else. A liar is a person who is lying, who has previously lied, or who tends by nature to lie repeatedly."

Therefore, yes, parents DON'T need to know, but trust is built on truth and honesty. Do you wish to be trusted, OR is it your intention to mislead and deceive your parents.

Also, the year is 2008, so why be embarrased about your own sexual preferance, if that is what being an AB is to you. If it isn't, then still, why decieve others.

As for telling your partner, my marriage is built on trust and therefore the truth. It is your choice whether you lie to your partner or not, but I don't really expect your partnership to last if you are the type of person that 1-cant be trusted, and 2-doesn't trust your partner.

...

Truth #3 "Normal" This lifestyle is not normal because:

-Not everyone does it.

-It is not socially acceptable.

...

The problem with 'NORMAL' is that it is a stereotype. You, and everyone else in the world is different and unique. Therefore, you can NOT conform to a stereotypical view that is normal as to do so would make you NOT you. History has taught us that this is not possible - German invasion of the world to eradicate anyone with non Nazi beliefs; British trying to take over control of the world (remember the reason for the 4th July USA); more exists if you want to read history.

As a result, something that is not socially acceptable to one person, is to another.

'-Not everyone does it.' Not everyone is female. Not everyone has coloured skin; Not everyone has brown hair. I can go on...- Does this make it WRONG?

...

Truth #4 Other people do not want to be a part of your games:

-People don't want to clean up if you make a mess somewhere.

-Nurses,doctors,and other professionals should not be subject to your desires unless it is part of the

procedure or therapy.

...

This bit is partly truthful - yes, some people do not want to get involved with others either socially or otherwise. Personally, I pity those people. However, if you ask, and most don't have this type of courage, another human will help you and are glad to be useful. I personally think that society has currently reached a sad point when a total stranger to you is glad to help you in order so the stranger feels useful.

Medical professional will change diapers on adults or children as part of their job, but they will also record the fact that they did it. This part, is usually the bit that scares the AB - others will know.

However, another a human being will NOT arouse/give relief to another without something in return. In their mind, they are NOT some form of prostitute. This comes back to the definition of what the truth is as apposed to a lie. Each person requires respect.

In closing,

a lie is NOT TELLING THE TRUTH EITHER BY MISREPRESENTING THE FACTS OR FAILING TO TELL THE TRUTH

[Sleepy]

[Edit]: Message needs to be re-written.

[Baby Bethany]

I would just like to respond to a couple of your points. My responses are in bold.

Therefore, yes, parents DON'T need to know, but trust is built on truth and honesty. Do you wish to be trusted, OR is it your intention to mislead and deceive your parents.

Not telling someone something they don't need, or indeed want, to know is not lying. If I buy my wife a 12" dildo I don't need to phone my mom and tell her. This isn't lying or deceiving her, it's called keeping some things private.

Also, the year is 2008, so why be embarrassed about your own sexual preference, if that is what being an AB is to you. If it isn't, then still, why deceive others.

Not walking around with a large sign on your back saying 'I'M AN ADULT BABY, LOOK AT ME' doesn't mean you are embarrassed about being one. Again, there is such a thing as privacy.

The problem with 'NORMAL' is that it is a stereotype. You, and everyone else in the world is different and unique. Therefore, you can NOT conform to a stereotypical view that is normal as to do so would make you NOT you. History has taught us that this is not possible - German invasion of the world to eradicate anyone with non Nazi beliefs; British trying to take over control of the world (remember the reason for the 4th July USA); more exists if you want to read history.

No, it's not necessary for everyone to be the same. But we all have to go with certain social rules of our society. If we don't then we are living outside of our society instead of as part of it. For instance if I came round to your place for dinner I wouldn't turn up wearing just a pair of sneakers and nothing else, because one of the rules of our society is that we wear clothes. The more some of us scream to the would that we are different to everyone else, the more we will be treated like that.

Another couple of unrelated points:

1) Germany didn't invade the world. They invaded parts of Europe and certain parts of North Africa. They weren't trying to "eradicate anyone with non Nazi beliefs."

2) The British weren't trying to take over the world either. The War of Independence wasn't about Americans stopping the British from taking over, the land had been British for years. It was about taxation and various other things. That's why more Americans supported the British side than the Rebel.

I think you should take those two books back to the library!

'-Not everyone does it.' Not everyone is female. Not everyone has coloured skin; Not everyone has brown hair. I can go on...- Does this make it WRONG?

It's not the same. Society accepts that some people are male or have coloured skin or blond hair. What society doesn't accept is that anyone should force their sexuality down everyone else's throat.

Beth

[PalmTropyx]

Cautious must be the social path you tread. Society as a whole flows like a river cutting its way through a deep valley. Slowly, through the means of mass quantity and equivalant force, changes will occur but, for the most part, the end destination is still the open waters of the ocean. It can lead you to success or drag you through its ungraceful attributes. It is not unhealthy to periodically view society from the outside. Here, can we truly find ourselves and evaluate the direction of our efforts. In such practices do we also get a chance to evaluate the cummulative results of our social trends.

Do we need to follow the wife, two point five kids, and a dog pre-written destiny? Some would actually argue yes while others have gone against the grain. Do we need to wear specific clothes in related events? According to womens' fashion trends, appearantly thin underwear and a sheer nightie is now considered a dinner evening gown. Is marijuana bad in all situations, or are there medical or extenuating circumstances changing the previously rigid ideology on the subject? Do we need 2 cell phones, 26" wheels, giant SUV's, $1000 pairs of jeans, or a 34, 28, 34 body? And what is with us and our complete dependance of fossil fuels? With all the other options viable and ready to be implemented, why does it take us so long to enact? (Check with your local shareholder politicians for further details.)

Is wearing a diaper terrible? Residually taboo in the minds of many, the act of wearing a diaper is neither evil or irrational. It is simply wearing a diaper. A brief glimpse of a partially exposed diaper, and some people will appear to have compounding cerebral catastrophies. Imagine the horror should a diaper be fully exposed. People tend to fear what is not understood or normal. Unfortunately, this usually leads to a rebellious lashout. Quite unique is this social attribute as it is a mimic of the way the human body defends itself from ailments. Inflammation, as we have come to discover, is not always withouts its own long-term or permanent damaging affects. (ie: ruematoid arthritis)

I write this not to rebute or affirm any of the previous posts as this topic will not realy have any "wrong" answers. Well thought out ideas deserve respect and objective interpretation. What you do with the content is up to you. It is my intent to remind us all, society as a whole is not always following the "right" path, and is not the only standard which should be considered as we find ourselves and carve out our own deep valleys.

Smiles,

Palm Tropyx!

[sarah_ab]

So you state wikepedia as a source for your definition, the problem with wikepedia is that it is user edited so the definitions are not always accurate or ummm.... correct

for example you stated that wikipedia defined a lie

source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie

"A lie is a type of deception in the form of an untruthful statement with the intention to deceive, often with the further intention to maintain a secret or reputation, or to avoid punishment. To lie is to state something one believes is false with the intention that it be taken for the truth by someone else. A liar is a person who is lying, who has previously lied, or who tends by nature to lie repeatedly."

however you will notice no sources are footnotes are referenced.. wikipedia can say whatever people want it to say.. now while the definition for the most part is 'accurate' the part about "often with the further intention to maintain a secret or reputation or to avoid punishment" has no real place in the definition, and actually makes it seem as if all lies are bad.. which is clearly not true. When you are planning a surprise party for your friend and you tell them you are just having a few people over to watch a movie, its a lie, but is it a bad lie?

Course then we get into the kant v. aristotle argument, which i wont go into here.... but here's an actual, published generally accepted definition for lying, to lie, and the noun lie

–noun 1. a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.

2. something intended or serving to convey a false impression; imposture: His flashy car was a lie that deceived no one.

3. an inaccurate or false statement.

4. the charge or accusation of lying: He flung the lie back at his accusers.

–verb (used without object) 5. to speak falsely or utter untruth knowingly, as with intent to deceive.

6. to express what is false; convey a false impression.

–verb (used with object) 7. to bring about or affect by lying (often used reflexively): to lie oneself out of a difficulty; accustomed to lying his way out of difficulties.

there is nothing in there about not disclosing some information, what you dont say, can't be a lie, it can be an intentional deception, but is that always a lie?

there is nothing in there about avoiding punishment or protecting a reputation, because a definition cannot include the motivation behind an action.

My big beef here is, wikipedia has never been and in the near future will not be an acceptable source for information when writing papers, or publishing so please, if you use wikipedia, do not quote it without first checking the information with another source.

as for implying that by not telling one's parents you are not being truthful and honest, well thats just silly. I dont tell my parents intimate details about my sex life, i dont call up my mum everytime i go to the bar and get drunk, or go to a friends and get stoned. Does this mean I am being dishonest to my parents? No i lying to them? No.

And when someone asks you a question you have every right (As an adult) to tell them that information is private and you dont feel they need to know. Does this make you dishonest? are you telling a lie? Not in the least, you are setting appropriate boundries to form a more complete adult relationship with your parents. You are not five years old anymore, and they dont need to know every aspect of your life.

you say Also, the year is 2008, so why be embarrased about your own sexual preferance, if that is what being an AB is to you. If it isn't, then still, why decieve others.

i ask, who ever said i was embarassed about my sexual preferences? I have no shame in enjoying what i do, but i do have a sense of dignity which has to do with me not telling the world that i am an ab. Embarassed ? no. Ashamed? No. Do i have certain social ettiquette that allows me to understand what is 'acceptable' given the society i live and work in? Absolutely

in regards to this comment you made : As for telling your partner, my marriage is built on trust and therefore the truth. It is your choice whether you lie to your partner or not, but I don't really expect your partnership to last if you are the type of person that 1-cant be trusted, and 2-doesn't trust your partner.

So, everyone who decides not to disclose their fetish for diapers or ab stuff to their partnet is untrustworthy? Again, selective disclosure is not lying, it is deciding when, where, and to who you will tell certain things. I'm guessing your partner does not tell you everything little thing about his/her life, and i bet i could find lots of things you dont tell your partner. So how can your partner trust you when you dont tell them EVERYTHING??? and not telling someone something often has nothing to do with trust, perhaps you are just concerned for your partners emotions and dont want to hurt them, or cause them pain or anguish... some people think about others before they act (Yes that was a little passive agressive statement... sorta like your entire post)...

I dont normally write this agressively, however you have accused people of being liars, you have implied by not revealing one's affinity for diapers and ab things they are untrustworthy, and you have implied that their relationships will not last simply because they do not reveal everything about themselves.

Anyway, just my two cents.... now discuss amongst yourselves, i'm getting fleclemped

[babykeiff]

We all lie. That is a fact. eg 'How are you?' 'Fine' It is the normal question/response to a greeting, however the responder presumes that the person asking the question is not looking for any further information, so s/he makes the decision to lie despite how s/he feels.

Sarah_AB,

I can understand your point of view, and also sympathize with it due to the current climate and lack of distinction between truth and un-truths (lies). Yes, we are all liars in some form or another, and to deny that is lying to ourselves. You have made some valid points with examples - lie to a friend to protect / arrange a surprise etc. Yes, that is common practice and you using this is trying to specify a reason to lie. Whatever the reason, it is still a lie, but, in your example, will be corrected when the time is right. Since we are human, it is in our nature to deceive.

What I am saying is that most of us don't like being deceived - it hurts at the deepest level and causes one to question the honesty and integrity of the deceiver. - That is just human nature. It is up to you whether you wish to deceive people be they parents / peers / friends etc. Personally, I don't want to deceive anyone, but it happens, in my opinion, for their best interest. Yes, it is also disrespectful to make a decision concerning another without them being involved - so, yes, I am a liar.

Can you be that honest with yourself?

Palm Tropx

As usual, brilliant and intuitive reply.

Baby Bethany

- Not telling someone that you feel they don't need to know is 1/ making a choice for the person in question without their consent - and 2/ deception. Although you can rationalize the second part (deception), all you are doing is making an excuse why to deceive, and still without the person concerned consent.

- Normality - You seemed to have missed the point. If you accept stereotypical views, and try to conform to them, we as humans will fail to evolve. However, if you can accept change, be it a change in a perceived social norm or whatever, the world WILL change. Do you wish the world to stagnate, and return to the concept of a woman MUST stay at home and be a house-wife (not allowed to work/vote/etc), and no part of her skin from her knees to her face must ever be in public view. I remind you of what is termed progress, and this is only achieved if we as humans are willing to accept/drive change.

- The British empire covered 60% of the globe at one stage, and was progressing towards 100%. The battle of the 4th July turned the tide on the British Empire as it was one of the first times that they were beaten. This was, to some, the start of the collapse of the British empire.

- Hitlers plans was to rule the world, and eradicate all, other than a stereotypical image of the perfect human specimen.

In history, there has been three groups looking for world domination 1-Romans/Greeks, 2-British, and the 3-Germans. In time, history might add the USA to that list. I do suggest that you reread your history, and discover from what of the three do your roots originate.

- In your comment, you agree that people are unique and different. However, you accuse that I am trying to force my sexuality down your/others throat. You are, as is most on this board, unaware of my sexuality or sexual beliefs or choices. If you wish to know, ask and I will tell. However, wearing a diaper, although to some is a sexual choice, there is an high proportion that wear for need. I think that you are stereotyping diaper wearing with a sexual fantasy. Did you NOT read what I said. I will repeat it. I DO NOT CONFORM TO ANY PRECONCEIVED OR STEREOTYPICAL VIEWS. I, like YOU, are unique, so PLEASE treat me as such.

If one person doesn't like me for one reason or another, I do NOT take that as everyones view, nor do I get upset over it. I accept that that person may have different views. That will not stop me, or shoud it stop you, from going out dressed as you wish. Will the clothes you wear / job you work at / games you play change who you are - if it does, I pity you, and I also suggest that you find out who you are.

All I ask is that you all, please stop believing in stereotypes as they are inherently wrong, and to do so, makes an idiot out of you.

Story - In Dublin, Ireland, a lot of American Tourists can easily be spotted by the clothes that they wear - Tweed Hat, Aran Jumper and Green Pants, and a black walking stick made out of ash. Most Irish people don't even own any of the list. Why are so many American tourists dressed that way - cause they believe in the stereotype that and Irishman is a 5 foot drunk leprechaun who wears the above, and they wish to conform. Reading this, you can probably realize how silly the tourists look, and if one was you, how would you feel? BTW, in Ireland there is a thriving Aran Jumper industry to supply the tourist as most Irish don't need to wear nor want such a heavy jumper. Also, most 'Irish' trinkets (shamrocks/lepBlahauns etc) are imported from Taiwan.

Something similar happens in the Benelux countries, clogs and large flowery dresses. The world is full of stereotypes, and you are worse to believe them. All it does is portray your ignorance.

FACT - Relationships between humans are built on trust. Trust implies the truth, and anything less will cause the trust to be questioned. However, as humans, we a fallible and make mistakes, so it is inevitable that we will lie. How a relationship continues from that will be determined on how solid the rest of the trust is.

I have NEVER broke a relationship, or know of one where the truth was the cause of the breakup. I do know of many where deceit and lies did cause the relationship to fail.

[belinda_sue_fox]

Baby Bethany

In history, there has been three groups looking for world domination 1-Romans/Greeks, 2-British, and the 3-Germans. In time, history might add the USA to that list. I do suggest that you reread your history, and discover from what of the three do your roots originate.

i suggest you reread YOUR history.

Ever hear of some small bloke who was quite good on a horse called Ghengis? I'll leave you to find others to add to our rather short list.

[sarah_ab]

I have NEVER broke a relationship, or know of one where the truth was the cause of the breakup. I do know of many where deceit and lies did cause the relationship to fail.

ok that was a quote... this is all i have to say then i'm out of this converastion because it has just become absurd....

dont most relationships break up because of the truth? because one person found out the truth about anothers infidelity? my previous relationship broke up because he told me the truth. My friends marriage broke up because she told him the truth. The truth isn't always nice. I'm not advocating for lying to save a relationship, that is just silly, i'm just saying the truth doesn't equal the good.

[Sleepy]

The only part about deception in my post was that I pointed out how it was unnecissary to tell your parents and how bad communicaton hurts a relationship in subtle ways,if one does not ask about your sex life then you do not tell,is this deception?

The main focus of my post is to point out a lot of the generic issues that we face here,I believe that one should practice a

little curtesy when engaging in our fun little lifestyle,the title "The Truth" is more or less to point out several of the things that are true in my opinion of which I know of at first hand.

When I mentioned normal,normal was used in the context of everybody doing it,what society defines as normal is more or less somthing that is done by a mass majority of a population,points :

-Not everyone is going to wear diapers and dress in baby clothes

-You don't see too many people walking around baby gear in public.

-The fear of the unknown.

I even if it is a part of their job to change a diaper I don't feel that one should include bystanders in their fetish or lifestyle

,example,deception is having a nurse change your diaper if you are not incontinent,this does not make the nurse a prostitute because she is under the illusion that you are incontinent and that is part of their job.

Parents,my mother is a kink,am I decieving her by not talking about the latest dildo or diaper,the subject does not come up so therefore it is not deception,although she already knows of my practices should the subject come up and I tell her otherwise,THAT is lying but somtimes are beneficial in some cases by those who have a strong influence over your life.

there WILL be more when I am feeling more talkative,this subject is not intended to start an argument ust to outline generic issues that we face at times.

[Aleia]

'-Not everyone does it.' Not everyone is female. Not everyone has coloured skin; Not everyone has brown hair. I can go on...- Does this make it WRONG?

Abnormal is not the same as wrong, nor did Sleepy say anything about AB/DL being wrong.

To those who resent hearing AB/DL called 'abnormal':

An important definition of 'normal' is 'common,' which AB/DL is most certainly not. Practically everyone on the planet thinks diapers are disgusting and would only use them for medical purposes. Even the vast majority of people who are incontinent do not enjoy wearing diapers. Diapers were never, ever intended to be sex objects, yet for some reason, we linked them to sexuality. Sex drives are typically directed at PEOPLE, and while many couples use toys as supplements, they are not central to sexual pleasure. We are a very special case, and if you expect everyone to understand and love what we do, you're in for a lifetime of disappointment.

There's no ignoring that a disproportionate amount of us trace our AB/DL tendencies to dysfunctional childhoods. Diapers may have been directly or indirectly attached to a powerful incident or set of circumstances, and, as a result, diapers keep echoing in our minds like a broken record. It's quite possible that, had we enjoyed functional, healthy, loving, NORMAL childhoods, we would have left diapers behind a very long time ago.

But, as long as we aren't causing or exacerbating any damage, or wasting our lives and potential, so what? Normal is overrated, anyway.

[Baby Bethany]

I won't bother responding to all of your points because it's obvious by the amount of sentences you write in block capitals that you write in anger, so I'll just respond to the points that apply to me.

Baby Bethany

- Not telling someone that you feel they don't need to know is 1/ making a choice for the person in question without their consent - and 2/ deception. Although you can rationalize the second part (deception), all you are doing is making an excuse why to deceive, and still without the person concerned consent.

Lying to someone when they ask you an honest question is not the same as not telling someone something they don't need to know. For example, the sexuality of my neighbour is none of my business. I don't feel that he is deceiving me by not telling me, I just don't need to know. Just like I don't need to know what my parents do in bed, and they don't need to know what I do.

Someone else made the point about us all telling some form of lie, and that not all lies are bad.

- Normality - You seemed to have missed the point. If you accept stereotypical views, and try to conform to them, we as humans will fail to evolve. However, if you can accept change, be it a change in a perceived social norm or whatever, the world WILL change. Do you wish the world to stagnate, and return to the concept of a woman MUST stay at home and be a house-wife (not allowed to work/vote/etc), and no part of her skin from her knees to her face must ever be in public view. I remind you of what is termed progress, and this is only achieved if we as humans are willing to accept/drive change.

I agree, we sometimes have to challenge stereotypes. You made the point about Americans in Ireland and I agree. Yes, the world will stagnate if we don't change. But I come back again to the point that some things are private.

- The British empire covered 60% of the globe at one stage, and was progressing towards 100%. The battle of the 4th July turned the tide on the British Empire as it was one of the first times that they were beaten. This was, to some, the start of the collapse of the British empire.

No it didn't. At it's height the British Empire covered about one third of the worlds surface. It never approached 60% and definitely wasn't heading toward 100%. At the height of the British Empire in the late 19th, early 20th century, there were several other huge empires in the world, including Russia, France, and Germany, just to name a few. The most rapid expansion during this period was by the United States, who were swallowing up huge amounts of land (either by treaty or by force) that belonged to Britain, France, Spain/Mexico, and the Native Peoples.

4th of July (which doesn't actually commemorate a battle) may have been seen as the start of the collapse of the British Empire by a very small minority of Americans, but not if you take a world wide view. The Empire continued to grow for more than a century after that.

- Hitlers plans was to rule the world, and eradicate all, other than a stereotypical image of the perfect human specimen.

Hitler knew the conquest of the whole world by one nation to be impossible. Logistically one nation cannot rule the whole world by force.....how would you police it for one thing? Hitler wanted certain parts of the world (mainly in Russia) not all of it.

The Nazis wanted to, and indeed did, exterminate certain groups of people that they in their warped minds saw as inferior. However, they never considered eradicating every non Aryan Nazi German in the world. Had this even been possible, which it wasn't/isn't, it would have left too few people in the world to manage it. Yes, they wanted their own race to rule/govern a large empire (what they called Greater Germany) but they didn't aim to be the 'only' people left on the planet.

In history, there has been three groups looking for world domination 1-Romans/Greeks, 2-British, and the 3-Germans. In time, history might add the USA to that list. I do suggest that you reread your history, and discover from what of the three do your roots originate.

There have been far more than three groups looking for world domination. None of which came close to succeeding for various reasons. There has never been a time in history when one nation came close to ruling the whole world. At any given time there are many nations competing on the world stage. So for example, Rome had Carthage and Persia, not to mention China. Greece (I take it you mean Alexanda?) had India and China, not to mention the Celts. Britain (as explained) Germany had Japan, Italy, United States, Russia and Britain to compete with.

I don't know what you mean by telling me to reread 'my' history to discover from which of your little group my roots originate? I'm British, I don't need to read a history book to work that out. Perhaps you should read some more books instead of getting your history from Hollywood.

- In your comment, you agree that people are unique and different. However, you accuse that I am trying to force my sexuality down your/others throat. You are, as is most on this board, unaware of my sexuality or sexual beliefs or choices. If you wish to know, ask and I will tell. However, wearing a diaper, although to some is a sexual choice, there is an high proportion that wear for need. I think that you are stereotyping diaper wearing with a sexual fantasy. Did you NOT read what I said. I will repeat it. I DO NOT CONFORM TO ANY PRECONCEIVED OR STEREOTYPICAL VIEWS. I, like YOU, are unique, so PLEASE treat me as such.

1) I didn't 'accuse you' of anything. I made a comment about some people in general forcing their sexuality down everyones throat, I didn't say you do. I don't even know you, so how world I know what you do? Perhaps you should reread what I said!

2) I'm not interested in your sexuality, the same as you're not interested in mine.

3) I'm not "stereotyping diaper wearing with sexual fantasy" because I get no sexual relief from diapers myself. I do it to relax.

If one person doesn't like me for one reason or another, I do NOT take that as everyones view, nor do I get upset over it. I accept that that person may have different views. That will not stop me, or shoud it stop you, from going out dressed as you wish. Will the clothes you wear / job you work at / games you play change who you are - if it does, I pity you, and I also suggest that you find out who you are.

Any of us should go out dressed as we like. However some people with alternative lifestyles define themselves by the clothes they wear, or do it to shock, or to draw attention to themselves. These are the people that need to find out who they are.

Beth

[Baby Bethany]

i suggest you reread YOUR history.

Ever hear of some small bloke who was quite good on a horse called Ghengis? I'll leave you to find others to add to our rather short list.

Thanks Belinda,

Some people watch too many Mel Gibson movies.

Beth

[DiaperBoyKR]

Ok. At the risk of jumping into the flames, its time to add my 20 won.

First, yes, what we do is not generally considered "normal" by the "mainstream" of society. We do not fit into the common perception of what is the standard course of sexuality. Regardless of what we view it as, whether we do it for relaxation or whatever, the rest of the world views the AB/DL community as a sexually oriented fetish. Sorry, but people are mentally lazy. Thats just the way it is. Now that said, people are becoming more and more accepting of alternative lifestyles, but they still have the right to be uncomfortable with a lifestyle they do not embrace. We may ask that they tolerate it, but we don't have the right to demand that they ACCEPT it. The best we can do is respect their own beliefs and preferences and ask that they do the same. To that end, I do not believe that someone engaging in an alternative lifestyle should not be going out of their way to make other people uncomfortable. Wearing babyish clothes, diapers, pacifiers, teddy bears, etc out in public by itself I dont believe by itself will make other people uncomfortable (as many of our community members can attest) but it does have that potential.

A couple of notes on the other parts of the thread. I dont believe it is necessary to tell people everything, especially friends, and family. Choosing not to disclose parts of your life may be considered to be a lie of omission, but if you dont tell them what you do in the bedroom, I dont see why you would want to tell them about your underwear preferences. Friends have no need to know unless you dont want to offend them when you wear out and about, and you intend to wet or so. Parents have absolutely no reason to know. Period.

A few notes on history. I'm a little bit of a Revolutionary America/English history buff, so I feel the need to butt in here. Foremost, there WAS no battle on the Fourth of July. Americans observe the Fourth as the founding of our country because it was the day that the Declaration of Independence was signed by the Second Contintental Congress. As far as history records, there wasnt even a skirmish anywhere near that date. The Battles of Lexingtion, Concord, and Bunker Hill were considerably earlier than the signing of the Declaration, and the other major battles took place later. Second, the Revolution was a last-resort response to what was perceived as excessive taxation and abuses that had been laid on the colonies by the British Parliament and Crown. Our British brethren will argue whether or not these were truly excessive, as they were ways of helping to repay the expenses spent during the French and Indian War to protect the colonies. Regardless. At the time of the Revolution, the British Emprie was less than 50% of the way to its maximum size. Canada was still largely either wilderness or under the control of the French. Most of the United States at the time was actually vigin wilderness that was only marginally claimed by the British. Austrailia was only just being settled, and India was only just being brought under the Crown's control. And this doesnt even consider all the various colonies the Brits controlled in Africa. I suppose if you ask many Americans who are NOT familiar with history they consider the Fourth of July the beginning of the end for the British Empire, but anyone who has even a passing knowledge of history will know that the Empire didnt really fall apart until about the end of the Second World War. And even then, it didnt shatter.....the vast majority of the Empire is still part of the British Commonwealth (if I remember correctly the US is the only previous colony of England that is not part of the Commonwealth). At no time in history has any one empire controlled more than 50% of the worlds surface. The Brits, the Japanese, and the Spanish have come closer than anyone at their height, but no one has had anywhere near whole control of the world or heading toward it.

Ok. Time to stop now, Im sure thats going to draw enough flames.

<Goes and gets flamproof suit>

[Three Rivers]

Abnormal is not the same as wrong, nor did Sleepy say anything about AB/DL being wrong.

To those who resent hearing AB/DL called 'abnormal':

An important definition of 'normal' is 'common,' which AB/DL is most certainly not. Practically everyone on the planet thinks diapers are disgusting and would only use them for medical purposes. Even the vast majority of people who are incontinent do not enjoy wearing diapers. Diapers were never, ever intended to be sex objects, yet for some reason, we linked them to sexuality. Sex drives are typically directed at PEOPLE, and while many couples use toys as supplements, they are not central to sexual pleasure. We are a very special case, and if you expect everyone to understand and love what we do, you're in for a lifetime of disappointment.

There's no ignoring that a disproportionate amount of us trace our AB/DL tendencies to dysfunctional childhoods. Diapers may have been directly or indirectly attached to a powerful incident or set of circumstances, and, as a result, diapers keep echoing in our minds like a broken record. It's quite possible that, had we enjoyed functional, healthy, loving, NORMAL childhoods, we would have left diapers behind a very long time ago.

But, as long as we aren't causing or exacerbating any damage, or wasting our lives and potential, so what? Normal is overrated, anyway.

Very well stated Aleia

[Baby Bethany]

Ok. At the risk of jumping into the flames, its time to add my 20 won.

First, yes, what we do is not generally considered "normal" by the "mainstream" of society. We do not fit into the common perception of what is the standard course of sexuality. Regardless of what we view it as, whether we do it for relaxation or whatever, the rest of the world views the AB/DL community as a sexually oriented fetish. Sorry, but people are mentally lazy. Thats just the way it is. Now that said, people are becoming more and more accepting of alternative lifestyles, but they still have the right to be uncomfortable with a lifestyle they do not embrace. We may ask that they tolerate it, but we don't have the right to demand that they ACCEPT it. The best we can do is respect their own beliefs and preferences and ask that they do the same. To that end, I do not believe that someone engaging in an alternative lifestyle should not be going out of their way to make other people uncomfortable. Wearing babyish clothes, diapers, pacifiers, teddy bears, etc out in public by itself I dont believe by itself will make other people uncomfortable (as many of our community members can attest) but it does have that potential.

A couple of notes on the other parts of the thread. I dont believe it is necessary to tell people everything, especially friends, and family. Choosing not to disclose parts of your life may be considered to be a lie of omission, but if you dont tell them what you do in the bedroom, I dont see why you would want to tell them about your underwear preferences. Friends have no need to know unless you dont want to offend them when you wear out and about, and you intend to wet or so. Parents have absolutely no reason to know. Period.

A few notes on history. I'm a little bit of a Revolutionary America/English history buff, so I feel the need to butt in here. Foremost, there WAS no battle on the Fourth of July. Americans observe the Fourth as the founding of our country because it was the day that the Declaration of Independence was signed by the Second Contintental Congress. As far as history records, there wasnt even a skirmish anywhere near that date. The Battles of Lexingtion, Concord, and Bunker Hill were considerably earlier than the signing of the Declaration, and the other major battles took place later. Second, the Revolution was a last-resort response to what was perceived as excessive taxation and abuses that had been laid on the colonies by the British Parliament and Crown. Our British brethren will argue whether or not these were truly excessive, as they were ways of helping to repay the expenses spent during the French and Indian War to protect the colonies. Regardless. At the time of the Revolution, the British Emprie was less than 50% of the way to its maximum size. Canada was still largely either wilderness or under the control of the French. Most of the United States at the time was actually vigin wilderness that was only marginally claimed by the British. Austrailia was only just being settled, and India was only just being brought under the Crown's control. And this doesnt even consider all the various colonies the Brits controlled in Africa. I suppose if you ask many Americans who are NOT familiar with history they consider the Fourth of July the beginning of the end for the British Empire, but anyone who has even a passing knowledge of history will know that the Empire didnt really fall apart until about the end of the Second World War. And even then, it didnt shatter.....the vast majority of the Empire is still part of the British Commonwealth (if I remember correctly the US is the only previous colony of England that is not part of the Commonwealth). At no time in history has any one empire controlled more than 50% of the worlds surface. The Brits, the Japanese, and the Spanish have come closer than anyone at their height, but no one has had anywhere near whole control of the world or heading toward it.

Ok. Time to stop now, Im sure thats going to draw enough flames.

<Goes and gets flamproof suit>

Good to hear from you again DB,

I appreciate how lots of your countrymen could regard your independence as the end of the British Empire, and I believe there is an argument for it perhaps being the end of the first phase or maybe the beginning of the second phase. However most of us Brits consider the beginning of the end to have actually been the surrender of Singapore to the Japanese back in 1942, followed by the loss of India a few years later. As you say, after WW2.

Beth

[the diapered dyke]

-you overindulge.

i think that sums up most of this community perfectly.