allen476

There is always people that will say that "your views are tainted because you didn't have a choice". Perhaps mine are a tiny bit because I wouldn't want to become incontinent to begin with. However the result is the same whether you wanted it or not and when I see people that want it pretty much to satisfy a fetish, I have to object. It isn't fun after a few years, hell it isn't even fun after a few days. As far as the hang up, one thing that has helped me a lot is getting a mindset that the diapers serve a purpose. Now if you are only having urinary incontinence at night, you might want to think about condom catheters instead of diapers. I use a catheter at night because I void anywhere from 2000-3000ml per night.

You can say what you want but you are not grasping the physical difference between a person that is incontinent and a person that chooses to lose control. A truly incontinent person has no sensation of when they are going. I can tell you that after a while you no longer feel it. This is where the fear in a truly incontinent comes from. Since they can longer tell, they no longer can predict how long a diaper will last. A person trying to achieve incontinence has to concentrate on the sensation to know that they have gone and thus knows about when the diaper is getting full and time to change. There has been many times that I have changed just before I leave for a quick trip to the store to pick "a few things" that I find that I need to change once I get there. Usually those changes are due to feces rather than urine. You say that you only had one messy diaper a day, I can tell you that a truly incontinent person can have several messy diapers a day. See that is like a person that can see telling a blind person that they need a better pair of glasses and they will be fine. You can manage the condition all you want. I manage with diet, timing, and better products. However I still have accidents, I still have leaks, and I still have extra laundry to do. It's a fact of life when you have incontinence. There is no perfect diaper out there. If you are laying on your side, urine will follow gravity and since there are no "diapers for side sleepers" out there, leaks are going to happen. Do I have tons of extra laundry to do? No.....but I have been managing this for a long time and my extra laundry now is basically clothes that have gotten wet from a leaker. Someone that has just started to deal with this though hasn't had the time to adapt and thus has a lot more accidents and mis-steps. I gues what it comes down to, does it take planning when you want to go out if you are incontinent? Yes.... With military type planning? No......but it does take a few minutes to figure out what you need to take with you for what you are doing.

If you are not having urinary incontinence, then during the day you can probably get away with a lightweight pull-up. Anything else will be a waste as you will have to change anyways. The small amounts can easily be detained be the pull-up. At night you might want to use a heavier brief but again in the absence of urinary incontinence, you don't' need anything heavy. You will want to consider using plastic pants at night as well. As far as brands go, that is going to be a trial and error thing. You might want to try a few brands and see which one fits and contains the best. You will want to invest in something to carry changes around with you especially at work. Cut down on the fiber, caffeine, and alcohol. Try to get your stools to firm to semi-firm consistency. Adding more fiber is going to make the problem worse. Increase your water consumption as well.

Yes it is hard to accept wearing diapers when you don't have a choice. I will tell you that it does get easier as time goes on. One thing that you have to keep in mind is the alternative to not wearing. The one thing that I always tell myself is that "they serve a purpose". As far as what type of diaper to wear, that can be debated until the end of time. It really comes down to the type of incontinence, the consistency of your poop, and how frequent. From what I gather is that you are having just fecal incontinence. Which is good because diapers only contain poop they don't absorb it. So the questions to you are how often and how much do you go? What is the consistency? Is it hard or is it runny (like diarrhea)? Do you get any warnings that you are about to let loose? Does it only happen when your poop is soft to runny or all the time regardless of consistency? I have been dealing with both types of incontinence for the past few years. So don't feel bad, you aren't alone. If you could answer the questions though, we could help you select a diaper that can meet your needs. Allen

Well you can have back problems without pain (or at least crippling pain) and it could be a cause. That is how my incontinence started. As far as clear pee, you don't want to have clear pee. That is a good indication that you have too much water in your body and could lead to water poisoning. The lightest color you want is about (remind you that this is after using a toilet where it is diluted more) a pale yellow, the darkest a golden brown. Keep it in that range. The drug combo would be a good start. If it is helping then keep taking it. There is such a thing as chronic prostatitis and it is possible that you could be affected by it. Let us know about the results of the MRI, I am curious. Allen

If you want your opinion to have any weight with someone that is reading it, then you need to write like you have some intelligence. Writing like you did above (again) makes your opinion lost as it is not understandable, not intelligent, and not something that anyone would take seriously. Let me put it another way. If your doctor (or any other professional for that matter) wrote like you did above, would you take anything that they said seriously? More than likely not as you would be questioning if they went to med school or if they graduated at the bottom of their class. Again, you don't have to write like a best selling author, but writing like a three year old isn't going to win people over either. Allen

I think what Rihanna is trying to say, is that your opinion will be taken more seriously if you take the time to write better. Anymore I don't even read beyond the first few words when some writes like you did above. It is like trying to read a foreign language at times. Yes typo's and grammatical errors can happen, heck even spell check can be wrong sometimes, but take the time to put your thoughts in some order and use some basic structure. You don't have to write like Hemingway but at least make it readable. Allen

First, you should never be ashamed to talk to your doctor about anything. Trust me, they have heard, seen, and encountered almost everything. Tell him/her the same as you just told us (except for being an AB) as there are certain conditions like Bettypooh said that could be serious. Allen

Does the vesicare or flomax help the frequency? Which questions did he ask? Also if you could answer the questions for me. It might help as to what questions I could suggest that you ask the urologist. Tell him that you want a copy of the dictated results of all of the tests. If he gives you a hassle about it, tell him that under HIPPA that you have the right to them. If he still gives you a hard time, then remind him about HIPPA again and that you want your medical records so that you can take them to a new doctor. Bad doctors can and do happen. The trick is finding a good one. What I have learned is that YOU have to be your own advocate. My PCP hates me because she knows that I WILL ask for a certain test or lay out my own treatment plan. I ALWAYS ask for the test results (she now knows to come in the exam room with them already copied) and I always go over them WITH her. But in the end she knows that I am following the treatment plan a plus for any doctor/patient relationship. Also do you drink heavily? Allen

I think what you are missing is the reasoning behind a 2nd opinion. By saying that it can't hurt, I mean that there is nothing lost by seeking the advice of a 2nd doctor. I'll share my experience with you. I have been recently diagnosed with Parkinson's disease. Now according to you, I should have accepted the first doctor's diagnosis of a benign tremor. That the tremor in my hands, the difficulties walking, and other maladies mean nothing because the doctor said he didn't believe that I had anything to worry about. Even my PCP insisted on a second opinion. Went to the second neurologist, After an extensive workup (3+ hours not including the EEG), he believes that I have Parkinson's disease. After conferring with the department head (this was at a university medical school), I was told that it was Parkinson's. Now this is added on to a-fib, a ruptured disc and a herniated disc in my lower back (the real cause of my incontinence), and severe sleep apnea. So according to you, I should have accepted the first cardiologists opinion that I needed to have an internal defibrillator put in when I only needed to use a different med. Or that I should have accepted that I would have to use oxygen every night along with a respirator instead of just having to use my Bi-Pap machine in auto mode. Anyone should get a second opinion when they feel that the diagnosis and treatment is not right. It isn't doctor shopping to hear what you want to hear but rather to confirm or reject a diagnosis. Like I said the OP has nothing to lose by getting one. Allen

You have never been to two different sleep specialists nor to two different surgeons. Second opinions never hurt anything. I've been to 3 urologists and have had 3 different opinions as to my incontinence. The oldest of them said "it is all in your head" while the younger female actually took time to get a complete history, physical exam, and read through the reports from the tests and other urologists. She is the one that ordered a nerve test though I didn't need it after the MRI revealed that a piece of disc was pressing on a nerve root. The second and really young male urologist did the tests but referred me on to the female when he couldn't determine a cause. He mostly wanted me to pop pills. Again most specialists (except most neurosurgeons and orthopedists) rarely keep up with anything new. And I will use as an example the older urologist from above. If he had read the intake history and then questioned me about certain things much like I did with the original post, he would have seen that there is a multitude of things that can cause it. But instead, he did 2 tests (that were negative) and proclaimed it was in my head. Now if he had kept up with any type of education, he would have known what to ask and look for. He has basically become set in his ways and won't change. Do I advocate finding a fresh face out of med school? No, but a doctor that is younger will have a better understanding of what to look for. Aside from my neurosurgeon, I now see female doctors for anything as they actually listen better than male doctors. My NS is the exception because he really impressed me the first time I met him and he by far is the best doctor I have ever met. As to the OP, I still believe that a second opinion is in order. Allen

As the saying goes, "been there, done that, bought the all the souvenirs". The 2 are unrelated from what you have wrote. I suspect that the doctor is older and not up to date with current treatments. Have you had a sleep study? How is your sleeping patterns? Are you a very sound sleeper? Have you had any back/hip injuries? Did you have any bed wetting problems as a child? Are you diabetic? Are you under a lot of stress? Did this start out of the blue? These are the types of questions that he should be asking as sleep apnea, very deep sleep, diabetes, stress, injuries, and history could be a contributing factor. It might not be possible to "train" your way out of it. I would look for a new doctor. Someone younger and more knowledgeable about causes. But if you could answer the questions above, there might be more to it. Allen

First, don't be embarrassed. Many adults use diaper services. Cloth is a good option in your situation. Talk it over with them to find out if they can supply you. As far as "ick factor", I do know that they are washed just like hospital linens. I talked to a diaper service ( which I couldn't' use due to sizing issues ) and they assured me by showing me what I would get. Those samples were worn and very clean. They also told me that any that have stains are discarded. Check with the service that you are going to use, but I would guess that they have the same policies. As with any cloth diaper, you will want to use plastic pants. As far as pins, that is going to depend on what they use in adult size. The one I looked at uses snap diapers. Allen

I think in some respect that you are right. Most that have thought about it wouldn't or couldn't make it after it became real work and the novelty wore off. The posts that bother me though are the ones from young adults that I believe really don't know what it is like to be incontinent later on in life nor understand what an incontinent person goes through on a daily basis. My post was directed at them as well as those that are seeking physical ways to make themselves incontinent. I would like them to think about the reality of their desire. Now don't get me wrong, I am all for 24/7 wearing and if you choose to lose continence when partaking in an AB/DL scene. When one though wants to make the incontinence permanent, they really need to understand and hear both sides of the story and then make a plan on what they want to do. If they do decide after thinking about it to go through with it, then I agree that they get what they deserve. Allen

Well said

I have been wearing for over 3 years, and not warn how bad it is but rather give insight as to what to expect and to think about. Many that have been posting are young and not thinking their whole decision through. My post was to make those that think that incontinence would be "something fun to do" think about the long term consequences and that there are ways to be happy without changing your body. That is why I asked for others to contribute to that as well. My whole family knows. Most of my friends know. I tell my supervisors at work just because I do need to change at bad times. And I approach it the same way you do, I tell people the truth when confronted. As to liking diapers, I am at the point that I am coming around on liking them in so much as they offer the most freedom as to need. When I first started wearing diapers, I hated them. But as time marched on and a solution to my incontinence wasn't likely to happen, I sought out websites that could help me deal with the feelings I was having. I agree that most websites out there, Depends included, are pretty lame. They don't help you with having to adjust mentally. I came to DD in order to explore why there are those that like/love diapers and maybe finding a coping strategy. Ironically, this website has given me more help than any other as far as coping goes and has help me deal with trying to like them. I have it managed pretty well, thanks. However "leaks happen". As far as usage, I can't use cloth (and I have tried, believe me, I have tried), I am a heavy wetter to begin with and due to where I work, I have to keep fluids in me due to the environment (hot). Furthermore since I am bladder and bowel incontinent, I have many times where I just changed and will have to go change again because my bowels weren't in perfect sync with my changing. To give you an idea with how many in a day.... 1 Abena when I get home from work. Change into another when I go to bed. Change into another Abena when I get up and after my shower. Wear that Abena to work and change into pull-up when I get to work. Then anywhere from 3-6 more pull ups while at work and a fresh pull up just before leaving work to come home. But I am not saying that anyone should not be happy but rather take a look at the flip side of what you want. You have thought out all of this and still want it. That is fine. What my problem is is when people want it and haven't thought about the long term consequences. The analogies of bigger boobs and being transgendered doesn't work because there is counseling for transgendered people long before they can make the transition and have to live as a woman for at least a year before they can have surgery. When a women wants a boob job then the surgeon makes a recommendation as to size and most doctors will tell you of the risks and complications of having bigger boobs.

For awhile now I have been reading about those who wish to become incontinent. While I am not saying that you should or shouldn't try the 12 month program and make a very life altering decision, I would like those that are thinking about it to read about what being truly incontinent means. A week in the life of someone that is where you want to be, if I dare say. To start, a little background on me. I shoveled some wet heavy snow one fine January day here in NY. I was finished and back in the house when my back felt like it was on fire. Took a shower, took some tylenol, and then retreated to the bedroom. All was better 2 days later. Then about a week later, the pain came back and I noticed some parts of my leg were numb to the touch. For about 7 months I worked through it while the pain subsided and the only symptom was the numb spot. Then one day in August I had an exceptionally brutal day at work. That night my back wasn't bothering me but something felt weird. I went to bed as normal but was woken up by the strange feeling of being wet. I had just wet the bed for the first time in my life. Didn't think anything of it and cleaned up the mess. Next night, the same thing happened. The day after that, I wet myself while getting ready for work. I called in sick so that I could call the doctor's office. She did get me in that early afternoon and referred me immediately to a urologist and suggested that I should "get some protection" in the mean time. Went that afternoon to the urologist, and had some really fun tests that saw Mr. Happy get stuff shoved up him that were either negative or inconclusive. He scheduled me for more tests that had to be done in the hospital. None of these tests showed anything. So here we are, one year after the initial incident, I am wearing diapers 24/7 until I can find out what is causing my incontinence. This next year had me to 2 other urologists, a shrink, and a neurologist. Still nothing. By the middle of the third year, my back pain returned. It had gotten to the point that I could not walk through a store without having to sit down to rest my back. Back to the doctors I go and she has an MRI done on my back. I went a week later to get the results and am shocked by the news. I have a ruptured disc at L5-S1 and a herniated disc at L4-L5 both with nerve root compression. Basically the cause of my incontinence has been found. So what does my background have anything to do with this? Well I want you to think about my situation and what you are going to put yourself through. Are you ready for this? Financially, emotionally, physically. Financially are you able to buy diapers. I use anywhere from 4-8 pullups a day along with 3 abena xplus diapers. Now doing the math, that can be anywhere from a low of $7.50 a day to $12.00 a day just in diapers. Now lets add in rash creme, diaper creme, wipes, and a couple of odds and ends that I have probably forgot and that tacks on an additional $1.00 a day. So at the time of this writing, can you afford $59.50 to $91 a week for this. And if you lose your job are you going to be able to afford it for at least one year with only unemployment payments. There were times when I was unemployed and I had to make a tough choice between food and diapers. And remember that I have to have them, I don't have a choice. Emotionally can you deal with a lot of different situations that you would not rather have someone know that you are incontinent. How are you going to tell your family? I know how and when you are going to tell them, the first time you have an accident in front of them. How are you going to explain it to them? Does your SO or wife/husband know? What do they think about your desire? Are they going to be there 20+ years later to help you? More than likely they aren't going to be on board with it in the AB/DL aspect, but would not run away screaming either. You will have to come up with a story about slowly losing control (now re-read my background above again about testing). And if you are single, dating is going to be tough. While most will tell you that they are fine with it, they aren't going to be calling you again either. While some relationships can endure, many will fall apart. Have you thought about being out in public? Are you prepared for the embarrassing accident in the middle of the store, mall, movie theater, etc.? Are you ready to carry around a diaper bag every where you go? I have to carry a backpack that has 4-6 pullups, an abena, a change of clothes, cremes, wipes, and plastic bags to put the soiled diaper in. If the store is busy, then many that come in and out of the bathroom know what I am doing. When I have gone shopping, I have had my diaper bag searched. I have had to buy clothes unexpectedly at a store because my diaper leaked again. I have had rude and insensitive comments when buying diapers and from people that have seen my diaper sticking out above my waistband. I have had comments about poopy diapers as well that weren't very nice. Work is a little tougher to deal with as well. Many will know about your diapers and be nice to your face about it but are not so nice when you aren't there. Physically can you deal with the unexpected surge in laundry? The 2am changing of your bed because you had too much to drink? Having to rinse out plastic pants daily? I have 2 pairs of plastic pants that I have to rinse out daily along with 1 additional load of laundry a week that I have to do. Sheets get washed at least weekly but are usually every 3-4 days. And remember that I have been doing this awhile and when this all began, I was washing sheets and clothes daily. I have got leaks under control fairly well but there is the accident that happens. Then there is having to clean furniture, carpeting, and bedding because you leaked. Are you ready to throw out your Saturday night plans because you have to spend some time cleaning up because you "forgot" to change? How are you planning on dealing with diaper rash? I can tell you that it is very painful and doesn't go away fast. So go ahead and go on the 12 month program. I am not going to stop you. I would like you too think about the flip side of it. While the desire of incontinence might be strong, I would suggest to wear 24/7 for at least 3 years before doing anything else. I want you to do everything as normal except you pee and poop in your diaper. Then go to your parents house ( and friends houses) and use only your diapers. I want you to poop in front of them. I want you to have an accident in front of them. I want you go to a crowded store and poop your diaper in the furthest possible point away from the bathrooms. See if you can make it to the bathroom without some of the poop coming out. I want you to go out for a nice romantic night with your SO and have to go home in the middle of it because you leaked out on your clothes. I want you to go into your bosses office and poop in front of him while asking him a question. I want you to have an accident in front of your co-workers. I want you to hear all of the taunts, comments, and rudeness that goes with this. I want you to take 6 months of the 3 years and have to decide every other week if you are going to buy food or diapers. So in the end you have a choice. Either stay in control and wear diapers, even 24/7 if that makes you happy. Or you can lose control and possibly find out what I just told you. It is your choice but I beg you to think about it. I know that this will probably either get me banned or flamed. I would like to see it pinned below the 12 month program post but know that there is only a slim chance of that happening. If you are truly incontinent and have something to add, please feel free. Allen

Well you have 3 choices. You can buy one in your size to use as a pattern to sew some, use a men's underwear pattern to make some, or bite the bullet and pay the going rate. The reason they are so expensive is due to the cost of the fabric and the time to make them. The fabric for one is about $10-15 and could reach $20. Then there is cutting time and sewing time involved. Most that are making things like that are barely breaking even. Making them yourself might save you money, but then what is your time worth. I make my own cloth diapers and they run $35 just for the fabric alone. As far as patterns go, if you want a custom pattern, that will cost you. You could hit the internet as there are a ton of men's underwear patterns out there. If you can't find one without the fly, modify one that has it. Allen

Changing depends on a few factors that range from how much you drink to the temperature to the type of diaper you use. If you have sensitive skin then you will need to change more often to keep diaper rash at bay. If it is hot out, then not only do you need to watch your fluid intake to avoid dehydration (it happens more easily when you are incontinent) but the heat will make it very unpleasant down there. Your best bet is to change when you notice the weight of the diaper. Have you tried pull ups? It sounds like you are using briefs which in itself isn't bad. The only thing is that, like you said, changing in a public restroom can be a pain. I use to use Targets own brand of pull ups until they changed them to be like Depends. I now use Walgreens own brand. For briefs, I use Abena X-Plus but I only use them on long car rides when I don't have the luxury of being able to change as needed. Allen

Actually they do have an address on the website in the "return policy" at the bottom of the page. It shows an address as 14941 Calvert Street, Van Nuys, California. A quick google search shows it as KCK Industries. Could not find a phone number though. Allen

Why won't you let this go? The OP for whatever reason DOES NOT want to ship them. Asking one time in a polite message is fine, haranguing him about it is another. All you are doing is infuriating him even more. If you are so desperate to be diapered, then why won't any diaper work? It shouldn't matter if it is printed or plain. In fact the plain ones would be easier to explain why you have them. Allen

Why not give it another chance. Lightning is right, it would be a huge waste but I can sympathize with your thoughts on this. Why not donate them to a nursing home or someplace that will use them if no one here claims them. Allen

Well you could shovel a lot of wet, heavy snow using your back and hopefully rupture a disc at l5-s1 or l4-l5. That will make you incontinent (or maybe not depending where the rupture is). You really DO NOT want bowel incon. I have the type of bowel problems that you are seeking and trust me it isn't fun. Luckily for me it only happens when I have diarrhea or soft to semi-hard stools and that part I can manage so that it doesn't happen very often. And a word of advice, by the time you realize that you have to go, you already are. There is no real warning that you only have a few seconds to get to the bathroom. I have to agree with padded_husky on this. Wear 24/7 for 1 to 2 months and go only in your diaper. Get some Miralax or the nasty citrus stuff that you have to drink just before a colonoscopy. That will get you close to what you want. Then do that regimen for at least 2 weeks after you have been 24/7 for at least 2 weeks. If you aren't giving thanks that you are continent after that, then you really do need to get some mental help. And I also agree with p_h on going in front of everyone including family, friends, strangers, bosses, co-workers, church members, a crowded mall, a movie theater, public transportation (bus, subway, train, etc.), or a host of other locations that you will not be able to get out of quickly enough to go change. Everyone will know then. Then to top it off, poop unlike pee, is not absorbed by the diaper, just contained. So leakage out of a diaper becomes a big problem if you aren't lucky enough to have the diaper contain it. Allen

Exactly, and while I was there for 2 days, I was changed by no less than 10 different people. Some very compassionate about it and used blankets to make it more dignified, then some acted like they were being punished and did it so rough and quick that I thought they were trying out for the NFL. One nurse was very good and did clean thoroughly and made sure that the diaper was tight enough to stop leaks, most though didn't clean that well and only put the diaper on. I could feel urine most of the time going on to places that the diaper wasn't. Lucky for me though all but 1 were around my age and besides the male nurse in the OR there was only one male nurse that changed me once. The lone exception on age was a girl that looked like she was just out of high school, that was the most humiliating. Allen

What I think you are missing is the point of what everyone is saying. That at your age, you shouldn't be making a life altering decision. If you enjoy wearing, then by all means go ahead and wear diapers 24/7. The problem is your decision to become incontinent. Think about this, at age 50, are you still going to enjoy the life of diapers. More than likely not. I have been using diapers for almost 6 years. At first, it didn't bother me because I held out hope that the doctors could find a cause and treat it. As time and tests went on, my hope diminished to the point that I felt doomed to a life of diapers. I was searching for websites to deal with the mental part of being incontinent, which led me to here. No I still don't enjoy diapers, but people here and the posts that I have read have made me feel a little better about wearing. I have had to deal with work, friends and family about the issues that come along with being incontinent and quite frankly they have learned a lot about what it is like. The hardest part of all of this was the neurosurgeons consultation that I had back in August. He told me that the nerve damage could be permanent due to the amount of time since the onset of the incontinence and the diagnosis. So this leads me to believe that since you are so young, why to you need to justify wearing diapers by becoming incontinent? The 12 month program while effective at creating incontinence, is not reversible. So at the age of 50, when this fetish has passed (diaper wearing) you won't be able to stop wearing. My advise is much like everyone's, if you want to wear because you enjoy wearing, then do that, don't change your body to suit the fetish desire that you have right now. Just wear for a few years and then see. Even as you stated that this is a desire, will you still have the same desire 20+ years from now? How about 10 years from now? Desires change, and once you have become incontinent, there is no going back. 10 years from now you could desire some other fetish. I have had 4 scope procedures with one giving me a kidney infection. They basically put a flexible tube up there and look around. Not much fun. I have had internal and external ultrasound tests. The internal doesn't go in the front door if you catch my drift. I have had an exploratory surgery where they looked at and tested everything and that will leave you sore for a few days. The only thing I didn't have was a nerve test. It was scheduled to be done, but then I had the MRI and that revealed the source. The nerve test would be pointless as it would have shown the same thing basically. Are you ready to put your body through that? And the last thing I will leave you with is from this past summer when I had my cervical fusion done. I was in the OR when they were prepping me on the table. The nurse (male) was taking my gown off from me when he noticed that I was wearing the standard hospital diaper the pre-op nurse made me put on. Immediately he felt to see how wet I was and could tell I was wet but not to capacity. He changed me right there and for everyone to see. 8 nurses, 2 doctors and 2 technicians saw a grown man get changed like a baby. For the rest of my stay, I was changed every 2 hours no matter what. And I know for some that is a fantasy, for me it was very embarrassing and humiliating. Allen