Seeking psychologically minded volunteers to help me re-write my unpotty training technique: Targeted Untraining

[Enthusi]

Hi all.

About a year ago, maybe even longer, I announced on this forum that I was working on writing up the technique I developed to untrain myself based on psychological principles, which I named Targeted Untraining.   I had some great volunteers to help me review and edit and even so I never really finished writing it. Part of it was life, but a bigger  part was that it wasn’t coming together.  I am  disappointed with myself for not having it done by now.  But every time I started thinking about it I got writer’s block.  Then the other day it clicked that the whole conceptualization was wrong.  The technique is based on principles of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, namely the cognitive triad, so let’s start there!  Unfortunately this entails a total re-write but I think it will go much better with this reframe. 

The gist of the cognitive triad is that there are three areas to consider: Cognition (Thoughts) <-> Feelings <-> Behaviors (actions). All 3 areas influence each other, and in order to feel better you have to address all 3 areas simultaneously.  Though in our case, feeling better means being diaper dependent. 😎

Important disclaimer:  Cognitive, Behavioral Therapy is much more complicated than this, and mental health professionals dedicate their life’s work to mastering CBT.  This is NOT therapy in any way shape or form. I  am merely using concepts borrowed from that branch of clinical psychology. 

My new outline will be as follows: 

Introduction: Disclaimers. Welcome message. Introduce the cognitive triad as a basis for Targeted Untraining.  Emphasize the level of commitment needed to pull this off including the physical, emotional, social, financial costs of being diaper dependent.  How to proceed if you desire incontinence but aren’t ready to fully commit.  Applying concepts to bowel incontinence if that’s your thing.  Acknowledgments.*

Section 1 (Cognitive):  Understanding how bladder control works so we can undo, with our goal to reset your urinary system back the factory default, aka the micturition reflex.  Also about mental techniques like guided imagery and hypnosis to remove any barriers that prevent you from identifying as someone who lives with incontinence, and more. 

Section 2 (Feelings): Developing a challenge mindset where you see the problems of being incontinent like costs, travel, diaper rash, not as deterrents, but challenges to over come.  Let the confidence you gain propel you forward.  Rewarding yourself for milestones, inspiration when you feel frustrated for not progressing (regressing?) as fast as you’d like. 

Section 3 (Behaviors):   Techniques to nudge your body into a spiral where you start relying on your diapers to keep you dry, which worsens your incontinence further.  This includes things like timed relaxation exercise, getting comfortable talking to healthcare providers, perhaps even family about your lifestyle, never holding it in even when you’re not diapered. 

Section 4 (Putting it all together): How to design systems using the above techniques to ensure your success.  Special topics like sleep wetting, wetting while sitting, traveling, ways to save money. Etc. 

* Originally I had hoped to name some people by screen name but at this point so many people have helped It’s impossible to keep track of who helped with what.  So instead I plan to thank the community and shout out to Daily Diapers. 

I am looking for 1-3 people who have some experience or exposure with the psychology of cognitive behavioral therapy to help divvy up sections to brainstorm and maybe even write a rough draft.  I would strongly prefer people who are open to using Telegram to communicate.  That way we can have real time private group discussions via text.  Message me here if interested  and if you have a telegram name or need to make a new account. 

Once that’s done it will need to be edited and ideally made into a pdf with internal hyperlinks to jump to spots.  In a perfect world we can make it in wiki format but one step at a time. And step one is to get everything on paper.  Many many many thanks in advance. 

Enthusi! 🚀

[inosi]

it would literally be dangerous for you to talk to most psychologists. half of the users on this forum would be tortured if psychologists saw their accounts. a decent portion of us HAVE been before. whatever you think cognitive behavioral therapy is, it's NOT this.

i don't think you'll find many people here comfortable with this line of thinking of yours. i would dump the psych angle if you want anyone to engage with this. i suggest a re-write. 

it's a shame too, you've had a lot of really cool posts here before that i've enjoyed. but this one is gonna be a big yikes from me.

[JanusLight]

Hi Enthusi, I'd love to help out with the draft! I'm seen CBT trained therapists over the past few years and am reasonably familiar with how it works. Let me know how I can help!

[BrownBobby]

On 10/30/2023 at 10:22 PM, inosi said:

it would literally be dangerous for you to talk to most psychologists. half of the users on this forum would be tortured if psychologists saw their accounts. a decent portion of us HAVE been before. whatever you think cognitive behavioral therapy is, it's NOT this.

i don't think you'll find many people here comfortable with this line of thinking of yours. i would dump the psych angle if you want anyone to engage with this. i suggest a re-write. 

it's a shame too, you've had a lot of really cool posts here before that i've enjoyed. but this one is gonna be a big yikes from me.

It's interesting to read this - not only because what's described is very much in line with the ideas and tenets of cognitive behavioral therapy, but because I have told many psychologists and therapists about this and received nothing but support and understanding. 

If you have had a negative experience with sharing this with professionals who should have been supportive but weren't...I'm very sorry to hear that, and know that it probably was very unpleasant and uncomfortable.  I hope it helps somewhat to know that that isn't the only possible outcome from telling the medical community about things like this.

[Enthusi]

On 10/31/2023 at 1:22 AM, inosi said:

it would literally be dangerous for you to talk to most psychologists. half of the users on this forum would be tortured if psychologists saw their accounts. a decent portion of us HAVE been before. whatever you think cognitive behavioral therapy is, it's NOT this.

i don't think you'll find many people here comfortable with this line of thinking of yours. i would dump the psych angle if you want anyone to engage with this. i suggest a re-write. 

it's a shame too, you've had a lot of really cool posts here before that i've enjoyed. but this one is gonna be a big yikes from me.

I think you might have misunderstood what I was getting at, though the fact that it wasn’t clear makes me wonder about going a different direction. If you were confused, how many other people would be? 
 

To be clear my approach is loosely based on the principle that thoughts, feels, and actions are all interrelated, and to untrain you have to hit all 3 areas simultaneously. How you think, feel, and behave to align with the goal of untraining. It was never, ever, ever meant to imply therapy. And at no point was I ever planning to contact psychologists.  That would be horribly inappropriate.   I just meant that it would be nice to have someone help me write it who gets the theoretical basis for my guide because it’s a hell of a lot of work to write alone. 

 

 

 

[Craig]

Hope you got the people you needed. It looks like a hot topic here with plenty of interest in what you are addressing.

I have some familiarity with CBT, but no game-changing knowledge of unpotty training. So, I just don’t see how I could contribute much.

I came by bedwetting by not stopping well after the age I should have, then deciding it was fun and exciting, and then encouraging it as I’ve covered in my other posts.

Pushing things to a loss of daytime control is of more than a passing interest, but it would be nice to have a degree of assurance of success before starting, along with a plan to compare with the famous 12-Month plan, although just the process is fun.

Good luck!

[Hannah YMS]

@Enthusi, might I suggest you open up a Google Doc and make it publicly available for comment? You can keep the edit permissions, but I suggest obtaining more than just 3 people to help with this. I'd make this a community effort. I'd be willing to comment on said document and help.