Strange days indeed - a 24 x 7 experiment

[Little Sherri]

6 hours ago, BedWetMark said:

Boxing, Krav Maga and generally fighting sports are my thing

Interesting, @BedWetMark; I've been going to a martial arts club for about eight years now. Do you wear a diaper when you go? I wore one a couple of times early on in my diaper 'career', but I kept worrying that it would reveal itself, and the self-consciousness affected my ability to instruct, so I gave up on it, and decided that running, and visits to the dojo were the two occasions when I'm "allowed" to not wear a diaper. 

6 hours ago, BedWetMark said:

I was shocked, the plastic pants were a total lock out, none of the pool water got through - I was amazed as I expected to be struggling. 

I've only worn a diaper in swimming once; as a kid, I got pushed off of a dock at our cottage when I had a diaper on under some shorts. By the time I swam to shore and walked out, it was hanging halfway down to my knees. I did wear a diaper to an amusement park with some friends last summer, though, and I ended up on a "white water" ride where the seat I was in passed under a waterfall, where it became, essentially, a bucket. Once we got off the ride, I positioned myself at the back of our little battalion, because it felt like my tush had its own gravity at that point, it was so enlarged, and I didn't want the kids to notice. We went for lunch, and I feigned needing sunblock from the car, left everyone at a restaurant, and walked about two kilometres to retrieve a dry nappy from the trunk, find a washroom, and put it on. 

[BlakeJordan]

I wonder if a high quality pull-up, which tends to be both more breathable and a bit less tight would do the trick? I will use these when I’m getting ready, have weird timing for changes, like two hours before my typical bedtime change that I can’t make it to because the overly soaked diaper won’t last.

It may be just me, but I rarely have much liquid output when exercising, and if I do they are smaller than my even typically small voids.

Something I would not have considered early on due to flooding, but nowadays and especially with exercising that’s not really an issue.

[oznl]

3 hours ago, BlakeJordan said:

It may be just me, but I rarely have much liquid output when exercising, and if I do they are smaller than my even typically small voids.
 

I noticed the same thing pretty much out of the gate with 24/7:  a gym session seems to suppress pee generation.  Not that there's been much (or indeed ANY) gym since lock-down closed them all months ago.  The 45m or so work-out was pretty much the only time out of nappies I ever had and to be honest, not much happened.

I tried doing a work-out in nappies but gravity is such a cruel mistress...

[BedWetMark]

16 hours ago, Little Sherri said:

Interesting, @BedWetMark; I've been going to a martial arts club for about eight years now. Do you wear a diaper when you go? I wore one a couple of times early on in my diaper 'career', but I kept worrying that it would reveal itself, and the self-consciousness affected my ability to instruct, so I gave up on it, and decided that running, and visits to the dojo were the two occasions when I'm "allowed" to not wear a diaper. 

I've only worn a diaper in swimming once; as a kid, I got pushed off of a dock at our cottage when I had a diaper on under some shorts. By the time I swam to shore and walked out, it was hanging halfway down to my knees. I did wear a diaper to an amusement park with some friends last summer, though, and I ended up on a "white water" ride where the seat I was in passed under a waterfall, where it became, essentially, a bucket. Once we got off the ride, I positioned myself at the back of our little battalion, because it felt like my tush had its own gravity at that point, it was so enlarged, and I didn't want the kids to notice. We went for lunch, and I feigned needing sunblock from the car, left everyone at a restaurant, and walked about two kilometres to retrieve a dry nappy from the trunk, find a washroom, and put it on. 

No, I couldn't. Most of Krav Maga is about kicking people in the bollocks and generally we'd wear a box for practise, so wearing a nappy would be just a "no".  Besides, with some of the grabbling I've lost my trousers.  I mean I could lie about needing them full time, but I'd rather not - I train with a sound bunch of lads including bodyguards, squaddies and coppers, so it's not a thing I'd like to share with that lot

However on another note, I am starting to think about WHEN we're allowed back to the office, not that I want to go, but how I can maybe get away with 24/7 ... I think I'd miss wearing them too much. I think @oznl alluded to this, but for me now it's going beyond a plain old fetish and more of a need, a desire to do or be something different and just wear nappies all the time ... 

 

[oznl]

1 hour ago, BedWetMark said:

However on another note, I am starting to think about WHEN we're allowed back to the office, not that I want to go, but how I can maybe get away with 24/7 ... I think I'd miss wearing them too much. I think @oznl alluded to this, but for me now it's going beyond a plain old fetish and more of a need, a desire to do or be something different and just wear nappies all the time ...

I wasted a number of decades (including my 40s) believing that I had a fetish and I think many of us do.  It just works so WELL as a fetish.

It wasn't until I was close to 50 that I started to realise that this was a built-in part of me that was reflected in sex, but also in every other bit of my life.  It was as much a part of me as my skin and hair colour.  It seems you might be cluing in a bit earlier.

As has @Little Sherri, I have tried to reflect in my thread, the somewhat gritty reality of being in nappies 24/7 as a functioning grown up (as opposed to some of the more fantasy-fueled stories floating about).  So far, I think I've demonstrated that things are not always golden-hued postcard perfect, it IS possible.   Even when I have (or perhaps HAD) a job, work travel and an office.  You just have to plan a bit more.

Look on  the bright side.  As a lifestyle, it does much less damage than serial killing and it's so much cheaper than a drug habit...

[Little Sherri]

On 5/31/2020 at 5:12 AM, BlakeJordan said:

I wonder if a high quality pull-up, which tends to be both more breathable and a bit less tight would do the trick?

Maybe, @BlakeJordan, maybe. I have to confess that I don't have any experience with decent-quality pull-ups; I've never really tried any. I used to wear GoodNites sometimes, but as discussed previously, they didn't have someone my size in mind when they were designing a pull-up for adolescents to wear to bed. When I was in the UK a couple of years ago for a weekend, travelling with only a small carry-on,  I was at the mercy of what I could find at drug stores nearby, and I ended up with a bag of Tena pull-ups, literally the only product they had in the small store near my hotel. They weren't great. Other than that, I've never tried any -  my preference has always been a proper diaper, with tabs, because you can make customize the fit and make them quite a bit more snug than than can be accomplished via lackluster elastic side panels. But as I said, I speak from essentially no experience. Maybe there are some great products out there. I would love to find a diaper or pull-up I could reliably wear while running. 

 

19 hours ago, BedWetMark said:

No, I couldn't. Most of Krav Maga is about kicking people in the bollocks and generally we'd wear a box for practise, so wearing a nappy would be just a "no".  Besides, with some of the grabbling I've lost my trousers.  I mean I could lie about needing them full time, but I'd rather not - I train with a sound bunch of lads including bodyguards, squaddies and coppers, so it's not a thing I'd like to share with that lot

However on another note, I am starting to think about WHEN we're allowed back to the office, not that I want to go, but how I can maybe get away with 24/7 ... I think I'd miss wearing them too much. I think @oznl alluded to this, but for me now it's going beyond a plain old fetish and more of a need, a desire to do or be something different and just wear nappies all the time ... 

 

Same issue here, @BedWetMark - lots of cops and bodyguards and such in my classes, and I'd rather not be known as "diaper guy". And I have also had clothing partly remove itself during grappling. As for getting away with wearing nappies at the office, that part is relatively easy - you just have to trust in the fact that most people pay little to no attention to anything going around them, let alone if you're nether regions look a little puffier than they did in the past. I am definitely at the point where I can't imagine going back to wearing only occasionally, and with the help of the fine people on this site, I have been slowly fitting my wardrobe out one size larger, and, as well, I've found a couple of great, slim, quiet nappies that I know I can wear under anything. The only issue is that my one-size-up wardrobe is rapidly becoming my "correctly-sized" wardrobe, due to the pandemic stress eating, and every second night feeling like a Friday...

[BedWetMark]

4 hours ago, Little Sherri said:

Same issue here, @BedWetMark - lots of cops and bodyguards and such in my classes, and I'd rather not be known as "diaper guy". And I have also had clothing partly remove itself during grappling. As for getting away with wearing nappies at the office, that part is relatively easy - you just have to trust in the fact that most people pay little to no attention to anything going around them, let alone if you're nether regions look a little puffier than they did in the past. I am definitely at the point where I can't imagine going back to wearing only occasionally, and with the help of the fine people on this site, I have been slowly fitting my wardrobe out one size larger, and, as well, I've found a couple of great, slim, quiet nappies that I know I can wear under anything. The only issue is that my one-size-up wardrobe is rapidly becoming my "correctly-sized" wardrobe, due to the pandemic stress eating, and every second night feeling like a Friday...

Hah, yes, I was thinking about the "one size up" only to think that lately I need to do that anyway.  Plus I went for a treadmill run to shift some timber and have pulled a muscle in my leg - out of shape, out of condition, out of practise and not enough warming up.  Damn it. 

[oznl]

It took a few days and extra-liberal quantities of sudocrem to get over my second dose of nappy rash as a grown-up.  Like the first dose, it was self-inflicted by poor choices rather than as an inevitable outcome of being permanently diapered.  Who’d have thought it may not be a great idea to go on a 5km hike wearing a pee-wet, tightly-pinned terry towelling nappy under tight plastic pants.  Regardless of the salving balm and recourse to skin-friendly, PH-balanced, medical grade disposables, there was some discomfort (slightly aggravated when wet which with me, means most of the time) and a degree of cowboy-stance walking which fortunately, my beloved did not (or graciously declined) to notice.

A week later and things are largely back to normal.  I’ve noticed that it does seem to take a bit longer to recover from nappy rash when one stays in nappies during the convalescence.  I suspect “drying out” for my nappy-zone skin would go a long way to clearing things up more quickly but that isn’t an option available with this lifestyle.  One of the cards in my favour in this particular deck is that I’m (mostly) only wet.  As the skin surface that was compromised very close to “ground zero” for any messy-nappy-action, I wonder how people who by choice or otherwise, have to spend quality time sitting in some quantity of poop actually cope: something to think about if advice given by others is correct and that long term use of nappies will inevitably lead to some erosion of bowel control.  This would seem to be one strong infection vector: poop and compromised skin.  To date I have seen a number of changes in bladder control but I have NOT experienced any noticeable control issues from “around the corner”.

Following on from my nappy-rash-own-goal and in strict accordance with the old proverb that “trouble comes in threes”, I decided to carry on that week and get problems #2 and #3 out onto the table.

Firstly, with the absence of beloved wife and darling daughter from the house, I used the “me time” to do what all aspiring adult cloth nappy wearing enthusiasts love to do when home alone, strip wash some cloth nappies by boiling them in a very large pot on the kitchen stove.

As I’ve previously mentioned, eventually my cloth nappies develop a funk all of their own, going from odourless to “ammonia” almost immediately upon me wetting them.  This appears to be a function of detergent build up over multiple cycles of lower temperature washing (here in the great Nanny State of Australia, hot water tempered to 50C in accordance with Government regulation so that we don’t hurt ourselves.  Of course, after tens of meters of uninsulated pipes, the “hot” water at the washing machine is even cooler than that).

Boiling nappies involves the mis-use of several kitchen appliances in a way guaranteed to bring about swift spousal acrimony but does seem to break down whatever residue builds up in them so that they can be again wet unobtrusively and inoffensively.  Nevertheless, it’s fairly medieval involving steam, suspiciously grey and foamy water and curious but still unattractive smells.  It’s even better when you forget that there is a pair of expensive Babykins encased plastic pants caught up inside one of these nappies and you boil that too for 15 minutes.  I’m still not sure if that patient has survived. They SEEM ok but they felt very strange when hot and I suspect a lot of volatile plasticisers probably left town along with the nappy detergent residue.  To make it perfect though, you need to get caught up on a conference call upstairs, have your nappy pot boil over, the over-flowed water to get into the hob controls and trip the circuit breaker…

For trouble #3, I decided to order some different nappies.  I’m still trying to work out a cheaper “day nappy” than the A$3.02-per-unit BetterDry.  I realised that my local nappy supplier was carrying Abriform L4 (which I’d heard good things about) and also, Abri-Let booster pads so I ordered a couple of bags of L4 and a packet of boosters.

Of course the delivery arrives whilst I’m running a Zoom meeting.  As Daughter-in-bedroom doesn’t “do” doorbells, the delivery is usually left under the carport in accordance with my delivery instruction.

Unless of course, daughter was expecting something herself from Amazon that very day.

I heard the truck up the driveway and seconds later the doorbell.  That much was expected.  What was NOT expected was the sound of dear-daughter leaping to her feet and thundering down the stairs.  In the time it took me to excuse myself, go on mute and head off in pursuit, I arrived downstairs at the door in time to see her struggling with a mid-sized carton almost exactly the size of one containing three packets of adult nappies.

“That’s mine” I called out.  “Just leave it downstairs, I’ll unpack it in the garage, it doesn’t need to come up”.

“Oh yeah, I thought it was for me.  Ooh what is it??” (thank the deity of your choosing that I’d ticked the “discreet packaging” option on the delivery form).

“I’m on a con-call, just leave it there, gotta go!” I replied evasively (I really WAS on a con-call and the attendees were probably imagining all the sorts of things I might be doing in my sudden absence but once again, my truth was probably stranger than their fiction).

I *think* I got away with it.

As for the Abrifrom L4 + Booster?  Yes, they work fairly well.  They are comfortable enough, not as comfortable as the ABU Simple but possibly more comfortable than the BetterDry.  Boosted, the Abriform hold a lot, but not as much as the un-boosted BetterDry 24/7.  Cost-wise, including the booster-pad they work out at A$2.91 per change which is sufficiently close to the BetterDry A$3.02 to have me wondering why I’d bother…

If BetterDry go out of stock again for protracted periods of time, at least I have a credible “Plan B” now.  I love those ABU Simples but there are just going to be wet patches on things every time.

[BlakeJordan]

I have a few questions

For the ammonia issue, I tackle this with a “funk rock” pretreatment, and “hard rock” detergent.

If it’s really bad I’ll use an enzyme spray after each wash, or if I know I can’t get it to the wash I’ll hand rinse it, let it dry overnight and spray the enzyme formula in the morning.

I also keep activated charcoal bags in my nappy hamper, and am in the process of trying another odor absorber.

If you want to invest in an ionizer, I’ve heard good things, especially for more of the humid smells, even in cloth/clothing.

As for rashes. I use not just wipes but a no wash soap on the wipes. In place of the airing out, which is no longer feasible a I’m not safe to go without

(learned that through a few days of testing, and let’s just say it’s as much awareness as it is sensation that is very far gone).

I use a combination of several boosters for their wicking abilities, a hook/loop (Velcro) diaper like the new xp5000 and the fantastico. I will then use powder on the diaper itself, a clean wipe to apply both an antibiotic and moisture barrier cream, and then tape up. I find the key is to use very thin layers of each, which a clean wipe helps to spread, get an extra change in for a few days as well. The hook/loop helps with not worrying about the grease or powder affecting tapes.

[oznl]

Thanks @BlakeJordan, I had a quick look around to see if I could find "Funk Rock" for sale available in Australia.  There was at best, limited evidence that I could obtain it (at an enormous "Australia Tax") from one or two "hippie-mommy" outlets interstate but I'm not sure I want to be on their mailing lists.  I'll see if I can google around for the active ingredients and find an more readily available local alternative.

On another note, on @Stroller's advice, I undertook another 5km brisk walk last night in a cloth nappy NOT of kite-folded-terry-square.  I was in a reasonably-damp Babykins cotton pull on diaper layered with flannel pull-ons.  This went much better, even to the extent of being "comfortable" in a warm/damp kind of way on what proved to be a fairly cool (by Queensland standards) winter evening waddle.  I'm pleased to report that I made it back without important bits of me being sand-papered off and here the next day, I'm sitting slightly soggily but comfortably so there can have been no delayed ill effects...  My plastic pants were some ancient Gary high-waist ones that crinkled alarmingly but I don't think this was such an issue outdoors. 

I also couldn't help noticing how much less the pull on cloth nappies restrict mobility compared to pin-on.  I had to drive on an errand earlier that day.  You REALLY notice your nappies clambering in and out of a car when they are pinned terry squares.  The Babykins pull-ons were just fine.

Still looking at those Rearz Omutsu on that online Australian retailer and wishing they were actually in stock...  Maybe she wouldn't freak out at those Penguin ones.  They were kind of cool.  Maybe one day...

 

[BlakeJordan]

Thanks [mention=16278]BlakeJordan[/mention], I had a quick look around to see if I could find "Funk Rock" for sale available in Australia.  There was at best, limited evidence that I could obtain it (at an enormous "Australia Tax") from one or two "hippie-mommy" outlets interstate but I'm not sure I want to be on their mailing lists.  I'll see if I can google around for the active ingredients and find an more readily available local alternative.
On another note, on [mention=56904]Stroller[/mention]'s advice, I undertook another 5km brisk walk last night in a cloth nappy NOT of kite-folded-terry-square.  I was in a reasonably-damp Babykins cotton pull on diaper layered with flannel pull-ons.  This went much better, even to the extent of being "comfortable" in a warm/damp kind of way on what proved to be a fairly cool (by Queensland standards) winter evening waddle.  I'm pleased to report that I made it back without important bits of me being sand-papered off and here the next day, I'm sitting slightly soggily but comfortably so there can have been no delayed ill effects...  My plastic pants were some ancient Gary high-waist ones that crinkled alarmingly but I don't think this was such an issue outdoors. 
I also couldn't help noticing how much less the pull on cloth nappies restrict mobility compared to pin-on.  I had to drive on an errand earlier that day.  You REALLY notice your nappies clambering in and out of a car when they are pinned terry squares.  The Babykins pull-ons were just fine.
Still looking at those Rearz Omutsu on that online Australian retailer and wishing they were actually in stock...  Maybe she wouldn't freak out at those Penguin ones.  They were kind of cool.  Maybe one day...
 

I did a quick search and found one retailer in Australia


https://www.babybeehinds.com.au/product-category/rockin-green-detergent/

It also looks like you can buy direct and they can ship it to you


https://help.rockingreen.com/article/57-where-can-you-ship-your-products-to

Their site also is a good resource on which product to use and how.

Hope this helps!

[oznl]

Well into month #15 of being diapered 24/7 and I’ve again had one of those “only apparent in retrospect” epiphanies.  This pattern of noticing changes only sometime AFTER they most likely occurred seems to be a repeating theme with this curious hobby.  It takes a sustained repetition of events before the idea dawns dimly in my brain that instead of a series of one-off, minor co-incidences, a “new normal” has established itself.

The latest?  I’ve lost insight into how wet the nappy I’m wearing during the day is and how it got to be that way.

This isn’t really posing any operational difficulties.  My change times are governed by time-of-day rather than saturation (having established a pattern that with very limited exceptions, will see changes occurring well within my nappy’s capacity).

The way that it is manifesting is that change time rolls around and I find myself very often thinking “But I’ve hardly used it!  I don’t need changing!  I’ll just waste a nappy!”

But I DO need changing…  Almost invariably, I remove my nappy to discover it is in fact well used but it’s a mystery to me as to how that occurred.  Well, I’ve got a fair idea HOW it occurred, the mystery is more about WHEN.

I can usually remember a couple wetting incidents here and there but they were just dribbles and yet I’m thoroughly wet?   What’s clearly faded from view is the number of these that have occurred over the course of 8 hours in order to get my nappy to the state that it is in.  I lost insight into “wet” vs “dry” very early on in the 24/7 piece and would typically rely on weight or (quel horreuer!) a leak to evaluate general nappy condition but generally speaking, I would have some idea about how MUCH I had used it.  Not any more it seems.

I don’t think I am incontinent (urinating uncontrollably) during the day.  Rather I think what has happened here is that I’ve lost mindfulness about when I wet, kind of similar to what I think started happening at night except that I’m (theoretically) awake for these episodes.

[Stroller]

59 minutes ago, oznl said:

I’ve lost insight into how wet the nappy I’m wearing during the day is and how it got to be that way.

 

This isn’t really posing any operational difficulties.  My change times are governed by time-of-day rather than saturation (having established a pattern that with very limited exceptions, will see changes occurring well within my nappy’s capacity).

 

The way that it is manifesting is that change time rolls around and I find myself very often thinking “But I’ve hardly used it!  I don’t need changing!  I’ll just waste a nappy!”

 

But I DO need changing…  Almost invariably, I remove my nappy to discover it is in fact well used but it’s a mystery to me as to how that occurred.  Well, I’ve got a fair idea HOW it occurred, the mystery is more about WHEN.

Same with me.  I'm sure I'm forgetting I've wet myself almost as soon as I've done it.  I'm certainly realising I'm in the middle of wetting, and I don't remember it starting.  And sometimes I'm getting ready for bed, going for a shower and taking off a nappy I thought was dry that was anything but.  I think the phrase 'so laid back we're horizontal' applies here...

[Little Sherri]

On 6/12/2020 at 1:58 AM, oznl said:

The latest?  I’ve lost insight into how wet the nappy I’m wearing during the day is and how it got to be that way.

This happens to me occasionally, but not all the time. I find that if I hit that sweet spot of distraction where I've gotten caught up in something - usually work, but maybe it's a movie, or making beer - and I more or less forget my nappy, but I don't forget to use my nappy, then I will arrive at a point, particularly if I am off my normal change schedule, where I have to probe the exterior of the nappy in an attempt to determine how much it's been used. Whereas if I get really pulled into something, usually something bad and work related, then I'll stop using my diaper for 30 or 45 minutes, which is a "too distracted" point that results in a sudden uncomfortable urgency and then a deluge that raises the odds of precipitating a wardrobe failure. 

Perfection for me is the ephemeral state of having forgotten, or at least entirely gotten used to, having a diaper on, and dribbling happily into it thoughtlessly but faithfully and regularly, and then getting tapped on the shoulder hours later by the diaper's subtly increasing intrusion into my ability to pull my thighs together, or by its pendulous weightiness. To me, that's wearing diapers in their natural state, with no imposed "artificiality" or constraints. If I could forget about peeing entirely, that would be great, but I'm willing to accept my current requirement to press "go" on the process, but not attend to it at all afterwards, in exchange for being able to still wield executive power over that department when required. 

[BlakeJordan]

This happens to me occasionally, but not all the time. I find that if I hit that sweet spot of distraction where I've gotten caught up in something - usually work, but maybe it's a movie, or making beer - and I more or less forget my nappy, but I don't forget to use my nappy, then I will arrive at a point, particularly if I am off my normal change schedule, where I have to probe the exterior of the nappy in an attempt to determine how much it's been used. Whereas if I get really pulled into something, usually something bad and work related, then I'll stop using my diaper for 30 or 45 minutes, which is a "too distracted" point that results in a sudden uncomfortable urgency and then a deluge that raises the odds of precipitating a wardrobe failure. 
Perfection for me is the ephemeral state of having forgotten, or at least entirely gotten used to, having a diaper on, and dribbling happily into it thoughtlessly but faithfully and regularly, and then getting tapped on the shoulder hours later by the diaper's subtly increasing intrusion into my ability to pull my thighs together, or by its pendulous weightiness. To me, that's wearing diapers in their natural state, with no imposed "artificiality" or constraints. If I could forget about peeing entirely, that would be great, but I'm willing to accept my current requirement to press "go" on the process, but not attend to it at all afterwards, in exchange for being able to still wield executive power over that department when required. 

Have you been able to correlate that proffered state with fluid intake, caffeine, alcohol etc?

I’ve found that not having enough water, or too much can result in the 30-45 min periods you mention. I’ve also found that sleep quality can affect things at night as well. Too much or too little water in either a very light or ver deep sleep. I’m far more likely to wake up to a dull ache with too little water and a night of insomnia followed by the last couple hours being really deep sleep. My guess is hormonal patterns are wonky during these nights but who knows.

[oznl]

9 hours ago, Little Sherri said:

This happens to me occasionally, but not all the time.

Yes.  It's not an "all the time" thing but like other developments, I seem to be noticing it more and more frequently over time.

9 hours ago, Little Sherri said:

if I get really pulled into something, usually something bad and work related, then I'll stop using my diaper for 30 or 45 minutes, which is a "too distracted" point that results in a sudden uncomfortable urgency and then a deluge that raises the odds of precipitating a wardrobe failure.

Yes, I have this too.  It's not an everyday thing but just sometimes something (usually a non-relaxing kind of headspace) will result in a lapse of usage followed by sudden and significant urgency.  These episodes SEEM to be increasing in frequency but evaluating it rationally, I think this behaviour has been there all along.  What is "new" is the rapid onset of urgency that appears after a short period of not leaking.  I suspect that this is a glimpse into developing, underlying urinary urgency.  There is only so much pee my kidneys can produce in 30 - 45m so the eventual "deluge" is usually nothing more than a brief gush, out of all proportion to the urge that heralded it.  It is possible that whilst we are not physiologically incontinent, we are becoming functionally incontinent because we are losing the ability to "hold it" for any reasonable length of time.

This plays in to the pattern of retrospective-insight.  It has occurred to me that even if we were planning to avoid becoming nappy-dependent, it may well be that by the time we recognise signs of dependency, it might be too late.

3 hours ago, BlakeJordan said:

I’ve found that not having enough water, or too much can result in the 30-45 min periods you mention. I’ve also found that sleep quality can affect things at night as well. Too much or too little water in either a very light or ver deep sleep. I’m far more likely to wake up to a dull ache with too little water and a night of insomnia followed by the last couple hours being really deep sleep. My guess is hormonal patterns are wonky during these nights but who knows.

Alcohol before bed in any quantity is a strong predictor for "waking up wet" with no recollection but it's not 100%.  Strangely enough, it does not seem to immediately influence the quantity of pee though.  I'm mystified as to how I can drink 4 beers, follow it by a few glasses of red (big night) and although I will often wake up wet, the truly soaking nappies don't really appear until well into the next day.

My sleep patterns remain dreadful and I'm now officially concerned about this.  Irrespective of alcohol consumption (I will try to remain alcohol-free for at least Mon-Thu) or water consumption, my pattern is now:

• 11pm: go to bed
• Midnight: fall asleep (hopefully)
• 3am: wake up, toss, turn, get annoyed
• 5am: fall back asleep
• 6am: get woken by wife's alarm
• 6:15am: fall asleep like a drunk
• 7:45am: drag myself out of bed, wishing I could just stay there and sleep until 11am

I'm not sure if this is an ongoing low level pandemic anxiety thing or my ongoing employment instability (my employer is still "considering" our job re-applications) but I'm thinking of mentioning it to my GP on my next routine checkup  (August).  My days are starting to fill with a grey fog and that fog is behind my eyeballs, not in front of them...

[BlakeJordan]

Alcohol before bed in any quantity is a strong predictor for "waking up wet" with no recollection but it's not 100%.  Strangely enough, it does not seem to immediately influence the quantity of pee though.  I'm mystified as to how I can drink 4 beers, follow it by a few glasses of red (big night) and although I will often wake up wet, the truly soaking nappies don't really appear until well into the next day.
My sleep patterns remain dreadful and I'm now officially concerned about this.  Irrespective of alcohol consumption (I will try to remain alcohol-free for at least Mon-Thu) or water consumption, my pattern is now:

• 11pm: go to bed
• Midnight: fall asleep (hopefully)
• 3am: wake up, toss, turn, get annoyed
• 5am: fall back asleep
• 6am: get woken by wife's alarm
• 6:15am: fall asleep like a drunk
• 7:45am: drag myself out of bed, wishing I could just stay there and sleep until 11am

I'm not sure if this is an ongoing low level pandemic anxiety thing or my ongoing employment instability (my employer is still "considering" our job re-applications) but I'm thinking of mentioning it to my GP on my next routine checkup  (August).  My days are starting to fill with a grey fog and that fog is behind my eyeballs, not in front of them...

I had to laugh, or at least I didn’t have a choice with your schedule description. Both your schedule and suspicions regarding the pandemic anxiety and it’s affects on sleep quality are something I could have written myself.

With that in mind, I wonder if it’s a combo of sleep habit, this hobby of ours, and the anxiety of the current pandemic? I know that if left to my own vices I would be a 2nd shift girl. Working from 9-11pm and sleeping from 2-11ish. With a small break between first and second sleep around 5-7 am. I’ve always had this preferred schedule, both on terms of polyphasic and sleep schedule. I can feel just as rested with 6-7 hours of sleep during this time as I can 9-10 hours in a 9pm-6:00am window. I doubt this has any correlation with any bladder symptoms but who knows.

[oznl]

48 minutes ago, BlakeJordan said:

I had to laugh, or at least I didn’t have a choice with your schedule description. Both your schedule and suspicions regarding the pandemic anxiety and it’s affects on sleep quality are something I could have written myself.

With that in mind, I wonder if it’s a combo of sleep habit, this hobby of ours, and the anxiety of the current pandemic? I know that if left to my own vices I would be a 2nd shift girl. Working from 9-11pm and sleeping from 2-11ish. With a small break between first and second sleep around 5-7 am. I’ve always had this preferred schedule, both on terms of polyphasic and sleep schedule. I can feel just as rested with 6-7 hours of sleep during this time as I can 9-10 hours in a 9pm-6:00am window. I doubt this has any correlation with any bladder symptoms but who knows.

Yes, isn't it just a lovely way to spend nights in bed (not)...

It might be the pandemic directly or the maybe the threat to my employment it imposes and associated financial pressure but I don't think it's the nappies themselves.  Before I went 24/7 in nappies, nights worked this way:

• 11pm: go to bed
• Midnight: fall asleep (hopefully)
• 4:30am get woken by bladder, try to pretend I don't need to get up and doze fitfully if at all
• 6am: give up and go to bathroom
• 6:05am: forget about sleep, I've already gotten up and my body thinks we are done for sleep now

After going 24/7 in nappies (and BEFORE) the pandemic, my sleep patterns morphed to:

• 11pm: go to bed
• Midnight: fall asleep (hopefully)
• Midnight - 6am: intermittently rouse/wet/sleep and sometimes just wet/sleep, who knows...
• 6am: awake in wet nappy with empty bladder and consider if I need to get up or not.  If not, doze

That wasn't bad.  Back in my "yoof", I was definitely the night shift guy.  I used to code for fun as a teenager (Z-80 assembler).  With other nerd-friends, we'd have coding parties that would start at about 9pm and finish around 5am - working 9 - 5 I guess, just the wrong 9 - 5.

It's 2pm here and I could happily fall asleep here at my desk it seems...

[BlakeJordan]

Yes, isn't it just a lovely way to spend nights in bed (not)...
It might be the pandemic directly or the maybe the threat to my employment it imposes and associated financial pressure but I don't think it's the nappies themselves.  Before I went 24/7 in nappies, nights worked this way:

• 11pm: go to bed
• Midnight: fall asleep (hopefully)
• 4:30am get woken by bladder, try to pretend I don't need to get up and doze fitfully if at all
• 6am: give up and go to bathroom
• 6:05am: forget about sleep, I've already gotten up and my body thinks we are done for sleep now

After going 24/7 in nappies (and BEFORE) the pandemic, my sleep patterns morphed to:

• 11pm: go to bed
• Midnight: fall asleep (hopefully)
• Midnight - 6am: intermittently rouse/wet/sleep and sometimes just wet/sleep, who knows...
• 6am: awake in wet nappy with empty bladder and consider if I need to get up or not.  If not, doze

That wasn't bad.  Back in my "yoof", I was definitely the night shift guy.  I used to code for fun as a teenager (Z-80 assembler).  With other nerd-friends, we'd have coding parties that would start at about 9pm and finish around 5am - working 9 - 5 I guess, just the wrong 9 - 5.
It's 2pm here and I could happily fall asleep here at my desk it seems...

That seems about right to me. Here I am at 1:00am. Been trying to get to sleep for two hours after going to bed “early” around 9:00pm and sleeping hard for a full cycle.

All of this makes me wonder the interplay of vasopressin and circadian rhythms that we are changing after age 5 with introducing nocturnal enuresis.


Then again this phone I’m typing on and ignoring good sleep hygiene of pulling myself out of bed and into another room probably has a larger affect so....

[Little Sherri]

16 hours ago, BlakeJordan said:

Have you been able to correlate that proffered state with fluid intake, caffeine, alcohol etc?

I "try" to avoid alcohol during the week, just because of the calories, although lately I've been having a fair number of video calls related to making beer, and inevitably, we tend to also sample beer during them. It seems to be required by law. But generally for me, alcohol precipitates a pretty deep sleep, one that might annoy my spouse because it results in snoring, although, as an aside to that, since I started sleeping with a pacifier, her complaints about that have declined. And she hasn't elbowed me awake for chattering my teeth in two years, a rare example of my getting to have my cake and eat it too. I think that if I stopped wearing diapers at night, as long as the bedding stayed dry, she'd quietly thank the stars that "that episode" was over, but if I decided to stop using a pacifier, she'd lodge a complaint. 

As an aside to the above - a tangent of a tangent - I have met people here who were "allowed" to wear diapers during the day, but not at night, by their significant other. I never understood that. To me, daytime wear was a much higher level of commitment and fraught with greater peril. If I want to wear a unicorn suit to bed, well, some people sleep naked, too. If I wanted to wear one to buy groceries...

But back to the topic at hand. One thing I will do if I've hit the sauce hard is take a mild sleep aid when I go to sleep, usually a half-dose of Benadryl, because alcohol acts as a depressant, but it wears off as you sleep, and your liver chugs away, undoing the damage you've done to yourself. The result of this can be a gradual rousing from the depths of sleep, as your neurological balancing act adjusts to the absence of a depressant that it was "resisting" (A state/B state if you want to read into this further). Anyway, the Benadryl wears off more slowly and helps to keep me far enough below the surface not to wake up at 4 AM, mostly sober, and irritatingly awake. Sleeps after drinking are by far the most likely time for un-recalled, and/or involuntary wettings to occur. 

I used to be completely immune to caffeine, guzzling litres of Coke in the wee hours of the morning before sleeping like a rock, but in the last 10 years, I have gone completely the other way, to the point where a coffee or a tea after mid-afternoon will likely mess with my sleep, so I avoid it after about 2 PM. It would be hard to separate out what effect it has on my nappy habits, because I have two coffees and a tea or a diet cola every day, so I don't know what I'd be like without them. 

As for fluids and sleeping, I'm far more likely to wake up because I'm thirsty than because I've had too much fluid. When I consume alcohol in large quantities, all my pretenses about healthy eating fall away, and also, terrible snack foods increase my endurance, so it would not be uncommon for me to devour half a bag of chips (crisps?) at midnight. When I do that, if I don't guzzle water prior to going to bed, I'll wake up parched at 3 AM. Even if I haven't consumed 22 times the recommended amount of sodium, a couple of glasses of water is part of my bedtime routine, because if I've run that day or whatever, dehydration is way more likely to interrupt my sleep than over-hydration. Particularly since I started wearing diapers to bed. If I am awakened by a need to pee, it takes me about 20 seconds to fall back asleep; "Yes, yes, go ahead, I've told you many times before, you don't need to wake me up and ask about this... snore...."

[oznl]

14 hours ago, Little Sherri said:

But back to the topic at hand. One thing I will do if I've hit the sauce hard is take a mild sleep aid when I go to sleep, usually a half-dose of Benadryl, because alcohol acts as a depressant, but it wears off as you sleep, and your liver chugs away, undoing the damage you've done to yourself. The result of this can be a gradual rousing from the depths of sleep, as your neurological balancing act adjusts to the absence of a depressant that it was "resisting" (A state/B state if you want to read into this further). Anyway, the Benadryl wears off more slowly and helps to keep me far enough below the surface not to wake up at 4 AM, mostly sober, and irritatingly awake. Sleeps after drinking are by far the most likely time for un-recalled, and/or involuntary wettings to occur.

Ah, yes, but I live in the Great Nanny State of Australia where a whole slew of useful things (including "diphenhydramine", the active ingredient in Benadryl) was decided to be intolerably dangerous for its simple and deluded citizens.  We can only buy over-the-counter "new formula" which is apparently a marketing alias for "doesn't work".  A variety of medications in Australia have been thusly neutered by  having had their active ingredient excised...

I really don't want to add a sleeping pill dependency to my constellation of quirks but I'd love to break this cycle I'm stuck in.

14 hours ago, Little Sherri said:

I used to be completely immune to caffeine, guzzling litres of Coke in the wee hours of the morning before sleeping like a rock, but in the last 10 years, I have gone completely the other way, to the point where a coffee or a tea after mid-afternoon will likely mess with my sleep, so I avoid it after about 2 PM. It would be hard to separate out what effect it has on my nappy habits, because I have two coffees and a tea or a diet cola every day, so I don't know what I'd be like without them.

That's an interesting thought.  Overtime (at least during the week) i've progressively replaced alcohol with Coke Zero which I now drink in epic proportions (maybe 500 - 750ml in an evening).

[oznl]

I woke up the other morning this week (that’s a good thing) in bed clad only in my t-shirt, a rather swollen BetterDry and white terry-lined plastic pants (for me, that’s also a good thing).

I was wet of course.  Having changed into a dry nappy at dinnertime the night before, I’d clearly used it a bit before bed and I also had a vague, fleeting memory of waking up and wetting myself at around midnight.

The pee fairies must have visited again before dawn however because upon awaking at daybreak I found myself laying on my back sporting an obviously drenched BetterDry and an empty bladder. 

Getting a BetterDry to a state of “obviously drenched” was of itself a noteworthy accomplishment.  It had swelled mightily between my legs coping with the overnight output to almost the size of a loaf of bread.  It felt like a warm poultice at my crotch but unusually, I was also aware that my bum felt quite wet, as though I were laying in a warm puddle (I probably was).  It was a very comfortable warm puddle though and the outside of my plastic pants and the bedding around me was reassuringly dry.  I’ve always been slightly bemused about vanilla folk freaking out at the idea of being in a wet nappy: securely fitted and non-leaking, a warm wet nappy is strikingly comfortable once you get past the mindset.  I cannot see what all the fuss is about. 

My first meeting of the day not being for another hour or so, I think I drifted back off to doze some more before being awoken by my next-door neighbour daughter’s daily morning temper-tantrum.

Upon arising, I had the house to myself.  My wife had long left for her office in the city and the remaining resident teenager had also departed for the city having scored a shift at the shop that employs her.  There was no need to cover up my nappies outside our bedroom so I wandered downstairs to organise a coffee clad only in my t-shirt, nappy and plastic pants.

A rather suspicious “squish” sensation when, coffee in hand, I sat down at my desk suggested that I shouldn’t dally long before my morning quick rinse and change but I was just so comfortable.

After coffee and email, I rummaged around for an ABU Simple and some plastic pants from my supplies cupboard and waddled back to our en-suite for a quick shower and change.  Unsurprisingly, there’d been some minor leakage into my terries down in the leggings but this was a better outcome than a wet spot on the sheets and the damp terry wasn’t enough that they couldn’t air-dry and go another round.

I was a little drippy down there during that shower.  Just sometimes it happens these days that staying leak free becomes an effort and that morning was such a time.  Accordingly, I hurriedly towel-dried, dabbed on some precautionary nappy rash cream on my hairless nappy-area skin (which has become tough and leathery) before taping up my ABU Simple and pulling on my plastic pants.  No longer having to concentrate on not dripping, I was already a few drips damp by the time I found some compression pants, jeans, a grown-up t-shirt and was ready to launch into my day dressed as a grown-up, at least on the outside.

It was my 510^th morning of being diapered 24/7 as I stopped to consider how much happier and more comfortable I am this way.

I spent all that day largely on conference calls and emails, perfectly comfortable in my nappies.  Just before I was wafted away by twittering birds along a golden, late-afternoon  sunbeam of beatitude, I realised that my ABU Simple had done what it always does and that for the last hour, I’d been seeping pee into the seat of my jeans and beyond into the chair I was sitting on which now smelled like a low-rent old age home on a hot summer’s day

.

It's not an unalloyed comfort...

[Little Sherri]

2 hours ago, oznl said:

Just before I was wafted away by twittering birds along a golden, late-afternoon  sunbeam of beatitude, I realised that my ABU Simple had done what it always does and that for the last hour, I’d been seeping pee into the seat of my jeans and beyond into the chair I was sitting on which now smelled like a low-rent old age home on a hot summer’s day

 

.

 

It's not an unalloyed comfort...

I laughed out loud at this. Well said. I switched my office chair from cloth to leather about six months ago, because long days in the saddle were taking their toll. I don't often experience leaks when I'm sitting in my office, but even the most reliable diaper, on the most routine of days, will do occasionally do something unexpected. I've had a Depends with a size 7 Pampers in it last me 12 hours. I've had a Rearz Barnyard dampen my khakis while 90% dry. Neither are common occurrences, but they are occurrences.  

 

[oznl]

8 hours ago, Little Sherri said:

I laughed out loud at this. Well said. I switched my office chair from cloth to leather about six months ago, because long days in the saddle were taking their toll. I don't often experience leaks when I'm sitting in my office, but even the most reliable diaper, on the most routine of days, will do occasionally do something unexpected. I've had a Depends with a size 7 Pampers in it last me 12 hours. I've had a Rearz Barnyard dampen my khakis while 90% dry. Neither are common occurrences, but they are occurrences. 

Yes, it seems that there are always "surprises" with nappies.  They're certainly a lot less frequent now that I know how to manage them effectively and also probably because the way I use them has shifted over time but the odd surprise still lurks.

Because of those surprises, and because I use a gaming chair (excellent lumbar support) which is made from PVC which can be sweaty, my chair is lined with an old towel.  My leather chair proved comfy only for the first month or lock-down before I succumbed to massive lower back pain.  I was advised by others to switch to a high quality gaming chair (Omen) despite never having touched "Call of Duty" and yea, it is good, especially the lumbar support, but PVC.  At least I only have to wash the towel.  Or burn it.

[BlakeJordan]

Yes, it seems that there are always "surprises" with nappies.  They're certainly a lot less frequent now that I know how to manage them effectively and also probably because the way I use them has shifted over time but the odd surprise still lurks.
Because of those surprises, and because I use a gaming chair (excellent lumbar support) which is made from PVC which can be sweaty, my chair is lined with an old towel.  My leather chair proved comfy only for the first month or lock-down before I succumbed to massive lower back pain.  I was advised by others to switch to a high quality gaming chair (Omen) despite never having touched "Call of Duty" and yea, it is good, especially the lumbar support, but PVC.  At least I only have to wash the towel.  Or burn it.

Over the years I’ve been trying to find out the reasons for these surprises. Here’s what I’ve found.

The wings somehow slip, allowing extra room in the leg gathering. Can occur with tossing/turning, tapes not tight enough, friction from other surface, and tape placement.

I’m in a weird position- difficult to combat. Reclined positions in anything except a brand new diaper has exceptional odds on this.

A quick/lazy change that is either too tight, too loose, or lopsided. This seems to be an issue with high capacity low absorption rate diapers and the most frequent occurrence.


The more obvious ones like gravity, and capacity issues are given. For this and the previous reason I have started to have a changing schedule as more and more I can’t really tell how much capacity I’ve used/is left.

As a result I’ve changed to a lower quality premium diaper, along side a booster. This has been a mentality shift in diaper use. From the “must use every fiber of the pulp”, to the normalization and wanting the diapers to stay in the background. One less thing to keep track of and worrying about leaks. Trusting in a different way. Likely this also has to do with small voiding that is the norm more and more now. Any flooding is a surprise now.

I’ve also found that there are times where I’m drinking tons of water but hardly peeing anything. The diaper has capacity but the skin and ammonia tells a different story. The diaper that is barely used has become part of the price, several times a week in order to run on autopilot.

I’ll keep working on the lopsided and quick changes. Intentional practice at this point. This I imagine is an issue unique to me, as physical limitations will inevitably lead to some lopsidedness and overly quick changes. Just learning to combat and mitigate it.

I’ve also definitely noticed more leaks during changes. Enough that I’ve started carrying a terry towel to grab the leaked urine that inevitably lands in my Gary wear actives.

Seems like different challenges during different stages. I can imagine at several more years many of these will remain issues, and is par for the course. I also likely expect that I’ll have s different methods, evolved techniques and more products.

I’ve noticed a “stash” that is becoming a thing as having the right diaper and tools to match the occasion, including the more infrequent but inevitable ones are coming into play.

I suppose that is another piece of advice for going 24/7. Practice those rare occasions if only so not to become rusty. I have a handful of “worst case” scenarios I practice. If I can navigate those calmly I know I can stick with it through anything. Which has no because a non choice.

I’ll also add as a separate note that people don’t really care. I have about a half dozen people in my life that need to know for various reasons, on the high end but can’t be avoided. Every one has just looked at it like a medical issue and this is the best tool to use for me.

I’ll use some of these people on occasion to double check odor blindness, clothes fits etc.


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