Birth Order And Intelligence/ Schooling

[Sunshine2585]

My dissertation at uni is on Birth Order and the effects it has on Intelligence or a person's experience in school. I did ask this question in the Person Above You game, but I thought I would post it as a seperate topic as well to get opinions or experiences from as many people as possible.

I basically want to know whether you think birth order (as in oldest, middle, youngest etc) can affect intelligence. And I'm also interested if people have experiences that they remember from school. Such as a teacher having opinions about them just because of how an older sibling acted in that class. Or whether you think your school experience would have been different if your siblings hadn't been there, or you were in a different birth order.

Thank you to anyone that replies. And also, if you do reply I would appreciate it if you could say how many siblings you do have, and where abouts you come in the order.

[blues_clues_baby]

My dissertation at uni is on Birth Order and the effects it has on Intelligence or a person's experience in school. I did ask this question in the Person Above You game, but I thought I would post it as a seperate topic as well to get opinions or experiences from as many people as possible.

I basically want to know whether you think birth order (as in oldest, middle, youngest etc) can affect intelligence. And I'm also interested if people have experiences that they remember from school. Such as a teacher having opinions about them just because of how an older sibling acted in that class. Or whether you think your school experience would have been different if your siblings hadn't been there, or you were in a different birth order.

Thank you to anyone that replies. And also, if you do reply I would appreciate it if you could say how many siblings you do have, and where abouts you come in the order.

Hi, I am the youngest of 4 with the most education and had the highest GPA when graduating from high school in my family also. Hope this helps.

Rich

[diapergirl80]

I have one older sister. We attended the same elementary, jr. high and high schools, and had many of the same teachers. However, she was 7 years older so any opinions they might have had about her performance had certainly faded by the time I came along.

My sister was never very "academic" and didn't ever enjoy school. I was the exact opposite; read at 3, skipped grades in several subjects and always had high grades. I finished a Master's Degree last spring and always found school to be enjoyable and often too easy. My sister dropped out of college and has a job in sales (which she loves).

[Red Barchetta]

I am the oldest (2 younger sisters). I HATED school (most of my grades were just barely passing) - I even skipped lots of classes frequently, and totally didn't go at all one year (but did finally finish), after finally Graduating high school, I just went to a trade school for computer operations and repair (never missed one day of that, even if I was sick), and any test given there, I never got even one wrong. - Reading, except for forums, exc. I only do it to look up information I need right now (pretty much has always been that way).

Now my middle sister, did o.k. with the time she was in school, but she never even finished high school - dropped out mainly because she was pregnant - she keeps talking about getting a GED at least, but that has been going on for years, hasn't actually taken one step toward doing it yet.

The baby finished high school with honers (and always hated if she was going to be late, or not get there at all), then finished a 4 year collage, went on to other studies for social work and psychology, and a few others (just can't remember what else). She is looking for something better - but is currently working as a counselor at a Substance abuse treatment center.

[WiiBaby]

Youngest of two. My half-brother grew up in Arizona, so I only see him once a year. He's 9 years older than I, and he was a straight A student. He earned a scholarship in mathematics to ASU, he was offered a job internship during his senior year. His major was in Computer Science, and he's been at work for two years now. He makes more money than our dad, and is the "perfect" son.

I'm not as smart as he is, but I could be a 4.00 student if I cared, or tried. I try to maintain a 3.00, but I'm slacking in my Spanih class. I've been jealous of him all my life, and we only have one thing in common, gaming. Of course, the one thing I'm a pro at, he's better in all aspects. I've had problems with discipline, rage, depression, and lack of respect for authority figures. My high school experience has been the worst part of my life. I've only had one group of friends, but they moved, I've had no girlfriends, and I'm still being "bullied."

In short, he's perfect, and I'm the screw-up.

--Brandon

[jenniebear]

i am the youngest of three.......two brothers 12 and 16 years older then me...they both entered the army at age 18....

the younger of the two...therefore the middle child... earned an degree through what was back then a army/mail course.....not sure what level of a degree...but i would assume it would be equivlant to that of a trade school....I forget what his title is......but he is similiar to a bio medical engineer......though i believe he has more training then what that would require....

i originally went to school at a university and majored in art/illustration...left school because i wanted to be with my then future exhusband...and got a job in the early childhood field...continued school but this time in early childhood education for which i have my AAS...i am in the process of working now on a liberal arts degree...with an emphasis in early childhood ed / management...

my parents didn't want me to go to school...although i was dying to go......not sure what i would of done if i had not.......

my oldest brother is now 58...he worked for cat for his whole adult life and retired from there a few years ago.......he has a variety of talents including music and had he been encouraged when he was younger......would have probably become a music teacher .... a college education back in the 1960's however wasn't considered as important or as critical as it is now....

my other brother has worked for the same hospital since he left the army and will retire from there eventually....he is 54 now...

myself i just turned 42 and have worked for the same agency for 15 years...same field since i was 20...and may very well retire from my current position if i ever get to retire....

as you can see ...we have all held long standing jobs and have strong work ethics.....our dad worked for UPS for 30 years so that probably had something to do with our work stability...

as far as intelligence.....i don't think our degrees or lack of degree make any of us smarter then the other...it was just the time in history...and opportunities we were allowed that played into having a degree or not........we each have talents and strenths and personal challenges...... i'd like to say i am the smartest ......but again know that we are all pretty equal

i have A.D.D. and probably have had a tendency to be the least focused.......although my oldest brother is also A.D.D. i am certain......he just hasn't been diagnosed.....his wife keeps him focused where my first husband was a mess in many ways.........now with my current mate......i am much more focused and take medication to help me stay that way....

as for school......there was one teacher who remembered my brothers.....and he always used to tease me.....but my brothers were very well behaved.....and so was i .....in school..........

[Chloe]

I am the youngest of 4 children, also I did the worst at school out off the 4. I always got into trouble, and didnt even turn up for most off the last year. However I did go and resit the exams at college and passed all 5 subjects I took with a C or above.

There was only one teacher that remarked on how well behaved my sister was compared to me, and that all ended up in me being in alot of trouble.

Although it was mentioned a few times that me being born in August and the youngest off the year was why I wasnt as bright.

Never had any problems with exams that I wanted to pass since school.

Chloe

[Incomplete Dude]

I'm the 2nd oldest of 4, and also the most intelligent. My IQ was 147 in grade 7, but is probably closer to 160 now, and I rarely meet people on my level. However, I have a poor work ethic, but that's mainly due to my ADHD and anxiety issues. In fact, I'm very good at organizing, planning and scheduling, I just don't do it enough, lol.

Also, I can say that my older brother is intelligent with decent work ethic, my younger brother is quite intelligent with good work ethic, and my youngest brother is somewhat smart with almost no work ethic at all.

[DollyDiaper]

I don't think my memories of school are going to help you very much but they may shed a bit of light on the way the introduction of the Comprehensive system affected state education from the perspective you are researching.

During my school years I was the middle child of 3 girls (my brother was born when I was 13, so he started school just as I was leaving) but my education was during the pre-comprehensive years initially. My older sister was only one year older, but I can't remember any comparisons being made between us at Infant & Junior School. She didn't pass the 11+ exam, so went on to a Secondary Modern school. A year later, I passed the 11 + and went on to a Girl's Grammar School. Hence, i didn't have the pressure of an older sister in my school to be compared to My other sister is 4 years younger than I, but by then the Comprehensive system was in operation, so she went to a different school again.

From a teaching perspective, I've heard prejudice voiced (from poor teachers, in my opinion) when they've heard that they'll be teaching a sibling of one of their former pupils. Comments particularly arose concerning siblings from 'a problem family'. Before they had even begun to teach the younger sibling the teachers' expectation of her/him being a low-achiever "just like their brother/sister!" could only be described as prejudice. I've also heard expectations expressed concerning siblings of very bright and able students, an indication that comparisons were already being made. I'm pretty sure some of these comparisons went on to made apparent to the younger siblings by the teachers concerned.

Reading back over this, I'm not sure I've been much help Sunshine but I hope all goes well with the presentation on Monday and your completed dissertation thereafter, as I'm quite sure it will!

D lly

[jenniebear]

Dolly's post brought up something i've noticed while teaching preschool for so many years....

Firstly all of the children i work with are at-risk....either financially (poverty level) or have a diagnised disability...they often come from homes where the cycle is a continuing one of lower level education, financial struggles/unemploymnt, single parenting, young parenting, and often drug or alcohol abuse......(mind you many of our families still make their own success in their home lives despite the obstacles set before them.... but this gives you some idea of the challenges many of our kids face)....some of our kids therefore may have some trials or stresses in their lives that we would wish they didn't have......and will displaybehaviors we'd rather they didn't.......

One thing i've noticed though...and this really isn't about intelligence......but more success in school......

After having a child in your class for a year...working with a family advocate.... who is along with you also doing home visits...you begin to know your families pretty well.....often you will have sibblings several years in a row (hit or miss a year).....and from one child's behavior you might assume what their sibbling might be like.......however.........these assumptions often could not be farther from the truth

one particular family i worked with had a number of children one of which was by far my most challenging child...and my most rewarding........also in that same family was one of my most "wanting to please" child i've ever worked with...who to this day strives to always please her teachers and takes home straight A's and is a model student.....(attention is sought in many ways...and given in many forms...children learn this at a very young age...each seemed to have found their "nitch" by the time they reached preschool...)

there were 7 children in this family and they ranged anywhere between the "over achiever" to the "severe behavior concerns" child

This was an extremely dysfunctional family where abuse was reported many times....(often the abuse was directed primarily at the "severe behavior concerns" child....if i remember my from my psych classes correctly..oftentimes an abusive family will pick a scapegoat....and this poor little child was the receiver ....)

as a follow up....i know all of the children have since been placed in several homes (some together...some singlely) and adopted.......of the 4 i've been able to follow......they are now currently in loving/devoted homes

[restlessfox]

I wrote for about 20 minutes on this subject yesterday but my friend came over and i had to close daily diapers so he wouldn't catch me on it. i'll try to remember what i wrote and sorry this is a little late, i would've been the first person to reply but i had to go. i hope this helps.

i'm the youngest of 3, my sister is almost 30 but my brother is only 2 years older then me.

when my mom was raising my sister she was new to the whole parenting thing and made the huge mistake of trying to be her friend instead of a parent. between a weird childhood and some messed up things done by other people she developed multiple personalities. and i do mean multiple, the last head count she gave me was 26 but i've only met about 15.

the origional personality which i'll call "s" because that's the first letter of her name was usually more interested in talking to friends in class then getting good grades. but the new main personality that took over who i'll call "d" gets work done and everything out of the way and then has fun by hanging out with friends or letting one of her littles out.

the personality that i'm calling "d" is in college and she is taking enough classes and side jobs to make any normal person die of exhaustion.

if she never developed multiple personalities she wouldn't have been able to make it through all the classes she's taking, and if my mom was a more experienced parent she probably wouldn't have 26 or so people in her head. so as a partial result of being the first born kid she's pretty much the smartest person i know.

my brother is a little under 2 years older then me, because of being so close in age we have been competing with each other all through growing up. he has also been 2 grades ahead of me, which with the exception of middleschool has meant that he went to the same school as me.

i think i was in fourth grade when he threw a chair at his teacher, missed and cracked the black board in half, then punched the principal and broke his glasses. that event forced us to get a variance to a school across town. he's always been a violent bastard growing up but i guess that just means he picked the right job, he's a marine in iraq right now.

when i was forced to go to the new school i remember thinking that if i was the middle child i would be in 8th grade when he punched his principal in 6th, but i'm the youngest so i was in 4th.

i lost about five good friends when i was transfered to the new school, and since it was in the middle of the year they were learning way different stuff then what we were learning.

it took me a week to catch up with the math they were learning, but we were way farther in english at my old school so i was reading at a sophomore in college's level when they were at 7th grade levels.

and some nepitism of the older child screwed me over alot too. my mom payed two thousand dollars for a lifetime membership to a tae kwon do class. we went for 2 years and i was around a purple belt when some drama between my brother and the owner of the place caused him to kick him out. i still wanted to go but sine i was the only one going i only got a ride there one every 3 classes.

i hope this helps you out with your dissertation, it's a few examples of birth order affecting what i learned, pm me if you need more examples, i just gave some of the better ones on this post.

[Morv]

Maybe this is just an issue with the phrasing, but I initially think that birth order can influence things in your life which are capable of affecting your intelligence. It may cause different levels of attention from parents and/or authority figures. It can result in expectations, or assumptions from others. However, those are more circumstances of your upbringing and your position within the family, not your actual birth order. I now think, for example, a child could be a first born, but have been given up for addoption, and ended up in the role of the youngest child in the family. I'd take the guess that the order of birth would have no affect on intelligence, but being the youngest child in a family would, even though that was not his birth order.

It strikes me that this is in fact what you mean in your statement, but I just wanted to clarify nonetheless as your phrasing leaves it unspecified. I could be wrong.

It also strikes me that even the order of upbringing doesn't truly affect intelligence, as it does education. If it does truly affect intelligence, it would be a question of how birth order/family position affects early upbringing, as the earliest years are the most important during development.

[Sunshine2585]

In the example you gave there Morv, then I would see that child as a youngest child. In the case of an adopted child, then yes the order they come in their adoptive family would be seen as the most important to me. Providing, of course that they had been in the adoptive family for most of their lives. As in, they were too young to remember being the oldest of another family.

And thank you everyone else for your replies. They have all been helpful.

[Schala]

I hope I'm not bad about 'reviving' this thread, I just think making another about the specific subject would be a waste.

I'm the oldest in a family of 4. I'm 24, and have three younger brothers of 22, 16, 14 - no sisters (sadly).

one particular family i worked with had a number of children one of which was by far my most challenging child...and my most rewarding........also in that same family was one of my most "wanting to please" child i've ever worked with...who to this day strives to always please her teachers and takes home straight A's and is a model student.....(attention is sought in many ways...and given in many forms...children learn this at a very young age...each seemed to have found their "nitch" by the time they reached preschool...)

I was quite the model student, wanting to please teachers and parents...but also verily unaware of what people called common sense, being rather isolated. Without friends or even 'buddies', I only had neighbors to play with (almost all boys...), and our differences simply didn't work out. I wasn't tomboyish really, so trying to do as if I was didn't work. Was always singled out, even beaten up and constantly bullied, into elementary and high school...

6th grade IQ test classified me as 'gifted' (don't know the numeric result, probably 140 or so), but my interest in school was only in completing it...it was like a prison. I got grades either in the 60-70% range, or the 85~100% range, depending on the course and my interest in it. I only failed a single course in my 11 years of school, by 1%, and it was unimportant.

My brothers don't seem to be just as gifted, the one who's 22 is more of a practical learner, he's not stupid, but is definitely not an academic. The one who's 16 is not bad, but a notch under me. The one who's 14 has ADHD and more similar to the one who's 22. We go in pairs it seems.

[Sunshine2585]

I started this topic in January. And it was about my dissertation. And as you can tell from the time of year, it is getting close to summer. And schools and universities are finishing. The question was asked when I had a few months before it was due in. But you bumping this thread now is kinda pointless because I handed it in about a month ago.

If you want to post in a thread about your intelligence, then you would be better going to this thread which is a poll about Intelligence And Ab/dls.

[Frink]

Youngest of 4, but functionally an only child, since my brothers and sisters had moved out and begun living on their own before I was born. I hated most of my schooling with a passion, but generally fell in the a-/b+ area gradewise.

[Sunshine2585]

Thanks for the reply Frink. But this topic was bumped up today after not having any posts for a few months. And as I said above, I handed my dissertation in about a month ago, so I can't use your information in any way.

[Gennie]

Thanks for the reply Frink. But this topic was bumped up today after not having any posts for a few months. And as I said above, I handed my dissertation in about a month ago, so I can't use your information in any way.

Suns,

I would be interested in what conclusion you came to on birth order affecting intelligence. I don't think it does, but I will agree that close aged siblings in the same educational system may have things expected of them from teachers who taught an older sibling.

So, what did your dissertation say?

Gary

[Sunshine2585]

Suns,

I would be interested in what conclusion you came to on birth order affecting intelligence. I don't think it does, but I will agree that close aged siblings in the same educational system may have things expected of them from teachers who taught an older sibling.

So, what did your dissertation say?

Gary

Is a PM ok?

[Gennie]

Is a PM ok?

Always.

Gary

[SS84onwards]

In my family, all three of us, me, my younger brother and my baby sister, are all pretty smart due to how well we were raised and our own individual ways of learning. I'm good at writing and oddly enough, video games, so I've been told many times, my brother is great with engines and art and my sister is good with music and numbers. As my mum's said many times over the years, we all inherited her intellect while we inherited our dad's stubborn nature.

So I don't think it's a case of the way you were born, but more what you've inherited from your biological parents and what your upbringing was like.

[Pipsqueak]

I'm sorry I missed this discussion while it was still active. I love these kinds of topics!