EU Referendum: In or Out? [UK Only]

[Elfy]

Going to ask in advance that things be kept civil. We may have differing opinions on whether we are better in or out but I ask that if you want to explain your choice that you do so civilly and without starting an argument.

I believe the poll is secret so if you want to vote anonymously you can. I ask that even if other nationalities want to give their opinion inside the thread, that they please do not vote unless they are able to vote at the referendum.

The EU referendum is in just a couple of days so I'm wondering how the Brits of DD are planning to vote?

I will be voting to "Remain" (in fact I already voted two weeks ago!). The reasons are numerous... I think the Leave campaign has been too reliant on fear, I believe the people running their campaign are only doing so for their own gain. I think that we are better off economically, socially and politically within the EU.

Economists and people in power over a range of fields and departments believe we are better off in the EU and I trust them a lot more than I trust Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage.

This is a time where we should be coming together rather than splitting apart and I would rather be in a greater Europe than in "Little England."

There are lots and lots of reasons I believe we are better in but I don't want to turn this into an essay so I will just say that everything I have seen from both sides makes me believe that we are much stronger in the EU.

[WakkoWannaBe]

Over here in America, I don't think that I've heard anything positive about Brexit (sorry?). One interesting thing that I did read, though, was that prospective academics who were being offered jobs at English universities were asking to defer their acceptance because they wanted to wait until after the vote to accept or decline the job offer.

Not sure how common that is, but something worth noting nonetheless: even if I am across the pond.

[Elfy]

There's been a lot of that. Companies holding off on deals, investors taking their money out of the country... Lots being put on hold because one of the options is an unknown and likely to cause a lot of problems financially so everyone is waiting to see what happens.

[Summertime]

There has been too much scarmonger from both sides which has clouded the issues which have been hindered by the Americans adding their "two penny worth," this may be counter productive and play into the hands of the leave group. Immigration and the threat of terrorists flooding over our boarders seems to be yet another red herring and as America has seen there are plenty of home grown terrorists who as generally dissatisfied with the government. Personally I think that the days of England standing alone are long gone and whether we like being part of Europe it is a necessary evil.

[Elfy]

13 minutes ago, DL-FTW said:

well this surprises me, i may be american but i have been watching pretty closely this brexit debate you guys have going on, and it seemed to me that the remain campaign was the one relying on fear mongering, ive seen dozens of "the sky will fall if Leave succeeds" type articles from the remain camp, yet i havnt seen much at all from the Leave camp except alot of blaming current problems on the EU..

Trust me it is there...Their campaign appeals to emotion and not logic for the most part. A "Leave" campaign leaflet doing the rounds yesterday had all sorts of ridiculous claims and scare tactics like the UK would be broken up into regions, the monarchy would be gotten rid of, etc... You can see it here: http://imgur.com/urJKfUv

I believe almost everything on that leaflet is an outright lie or huge exaggeration

Or how about the other leaflet they sent out which warned against Turkey joining the Union (something that won't actually happen for a long time) and the only two countries it marked apart from Turkey were Iraq and Syria with very clear implications of what the leaflet was suggesting.

Both sides campaigns have been pretty bad for fear but the stuff I see coming from "Leave" has just seemed to be a lot worse. "Remain" have resorted to it at times as well, but at least they have a lot of leading figures in different fields coming up with actual reasons to stay in. From most "Leave" supporters all I hear is empty rhetoric about British pride and "taking back control" when really we have all the control in the first place, a lot of people are misdirecting their anger at our government to the EU.

EDIT: Just to add a reminder (since it seems that people need it) from my original post... I ask that even if other nationalities want to give their opinion inside the thread, that they please do not vote unless they are able to vote at the referendum.

[Bettypooh]

From the U.S.:

I think you're on the mark Elfy. I've seen nobody touting any significant benefit of a "Brexit" beyond having more self-determination available. While I place a high value on total freedom for the US, our situation is different.

[Elfy]

Well too bad... Looks like UK are exiting the EU.

[erevu]

[Diapered Jason]

With 15% reporting, it is 51% remain and 49% leave. It's going to be close. I sure hope the remain vote remains ahead.

[DL-FTW]

seems leave succeeded. well good luck with your new surge of independence hope it benefits you,

[Summertime]

6 hours ago, Elfy said:

Well too bad... Looks like UK are exiting the EU.

I think it's a sad day although with a 72% turn out at least it reflects a better majority than the general elections. Looking at the "results map" East Anglia was a sea of blue demonstrating the leave vote and just one little yellow speck in Ipswich to remain, we do like to be different. It will be interesting to see the fallout from this not least whether the areas that receive EU funding will continue to receive it. Time will tell whether the decision is right for Britian but I think there could be some "payback" voting at the next general election which could cause further troubles.

[Bettypooh]

Freedom and independence always has a cost but if handled well it has benefits far outweighing that cost. May y'all see those benefits soon and may the E.U. learn something from this as well. I'm liking the 72% voter turn-out; wish we could see that kind of concern and effort over here

Bettypooh

[Diapered Jason]

I don't understand why people on this thread have called it a vote for independence. That makes no sense. Nothing is going to change for UK other than higher trading costs and a weaker pound. Regulations will have to remain the same in order to trade with the EU and the money that is sent to the EU will be replaced with trade tariffs. The UK's independence will not change.

[Elfy]

We already had freedom and independence. If anything we are going to lose freedoms thanks to being out of the Union.

Jobs are already going, companies are leaving, Leave campaigners are admitting the lied about certain things, the markets are tumbling, Scotland are calling for a new independence referendum...

For someone who believes in the EU and in people coming together it is pretty devastating. We are condemned to being controlled more and more tightly and having a succession of ring wing governments.

[Summertime]

I think Elfy is right, we're going to have to make more concessions to the EU in order to continue to trade with them, I know that we sell more than we buy but there is a danger of being held to ransom and although I dislike Merkel there is strength in the unity of the EU which does not detract from the UK's sovereignty or independence. As many of the current laws that protect workers right came via the EU there is a danger that they, like their rights will gradually be eroded and successive governments have reduced the power of the unions so there will be even less leverage to prevent any further loss of rights.

[Summertime]

2 hours ago, diapersalways said:

because thats how the word independence is defined

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/independence

[erevu]

Is America not independent by your standard? Is any country at all independent by your standard?

[Summertime]

8 minutes ago, erevu said:

Is America not independent by your standard? Is any country at all independent by your standard?

By the definition then no, the only way that would apply would be if the country was totally self reliant

[DLglasgow]

So to summerise North Korea is the only country with independance

[erevu]

3 hours ago, DLglasgow said:

So to summerise North Korea is the only country with independance

[Summertime]

2 hours ago, erevu said:

No, not

[Bettypooh]

Let's not derail the topic into arguing the semantics of words Nations in the E.U. are semi-independent; Brussels does have full control over some matters and that list of things is growing. Over here we've had 200+ years to create our bureaucracy and the E.U. is rapidly approaching our mess already Great Britain will now be free of the Brussels decisions and will be dealing with those issues independently instead. I think that explains the words well enough.

[Summertime]

8 minutes ago, Bettypooh said:

Let's not derail the topic into arguing the semantics of words Nations in the E.U. are semi-independent; Brussels does have full control over some matters and that list of things is growing. Over here we've had 200+ years to create our bureaucracy and the E.U. is rapidly approaching our mess already Great Britain will now be free of the Brussels decisions and will be dealing with those issues independently instead. I think that explains the words well enough.

[Elfy]

8 hours ago, erevu said:

No, not

[Summertime]

Elfy, there is already a petition for a second referendum with signatories exceeding one million which requires parliament to discuss it, hopefully if public opinion is strong enough this might happen. The main thrust of the brexit campaign was to reduce immigration which it now emerges isn't quite true and that the NHS would benefit from the money saved which also now appears not to be true.